Nungali Posted March 17, 2014 I like your post 21 CT, the issue is what passes as karate nowadays. In MSSR it is definatly not about brute force, but there are some aspects of that ... one guy is a big brute already so he uses that stuff. me I am not, Many techniques are utalising things one think one might only get from Aikido or ju-jutsu. I lot has been lost in transition. Shorin-Ryu ( the non- Seito version as well) was in the past known as good at tai sabaki .... that is by people that practiced ( I want to say 'polluted') forms of karate focusing on H pattern forms, straight lines , up and down the hall.A few times I have demonstrated my 'mastery of tai Sabaki' to a gob smacked fellow karate ka; when asked 'What was that move? ! " I said "Its called getting out of the way." I also know that gullible westerners have been taught basic Okinawan trad 'karate' as some type of secret ninjitsu art when its nothing more than understanding original form, bunkai, environmental factors and a major missing component ; 'strategy . ' 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted March 17, 2014 Please forgive if I'm veering a little off-topic, but what do you guys think about Karate? Ordinarily I'd gravitate towards something more philosophically hip (aikido) or energetically profound (tai chi or bagua), but in-person teachers are scarce in my little corner of Mexico. I have absolutely no interest in beating anybody up-- and getting my ass kicked has, if possible, even less appeal--so an aggressive, macho atmosphere won't work for me. That said, I could really stand to get in better shape: improve my aerobic capacity, agility, basic strength, and so forth. All that kicking and punching might be just the thing. Thoughts? Liminal There can be good and bad .... styles that do or dont suit you ... different clubs and teachers from the same style, differnt teachers in one club. You may be limited by choice because of where you live ... but I never expected to find a teacher in my little country town that was 4 teachers descended from Bushi Matsamura Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Harmonious Emptiness Posted March 17, 2014 Please forgive if I'm veering a little off-topic, but what do you guys think about Karate? Ordinarily I'd gravitate towards something more philosophically hip (aikido) or energetically profound (tai chi or bagua), but in-person teachers are scarce in my little corner of Mexico. I have absolutely no interest in beating anybody up-- and getting my ass kicked has, if possible, even less appeal--so an aggressive, macho atmosphere won't work for me. That said, I could really stand to get in better shape: improve my aerobic capacity, agility, basic strength, and so forth. All that kicking and punching might be just the thing. Thoughts? Liminal What about capoeira? Possibly the most aerobic MA. Plus there's music, and more girls to tone down the some of the machismo (if they aren't the biggest perpetrators..). 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Harmonious Emptiness Posted March 17, 2014 Projections from my Subconscious aside for the moment, it could bode well to be careful, to a point, in the Martial Arts...You see some people get so dogmatic/fanatical about their teacher/style - Sometimes to an unnatural/unhealthy level. I'm considering leaving Aikido after all, hah. http://science.howstuffworks.com/life/inside-the-mind/human-brain/brainwashing.htm Worth thinking about. How often does this happen? Assault on identity Guilt Self-betrayal Breaking point Leniency Compulsion to confess Channeling of guilt Releasing of guilt Progress and harmony Final confession and rebirth And then go and defend their new belief by going and shaming other people for their beliefs, who then feel ashamed and go shame others in order to uphold the fragile stability of their shamed-into belief system? People go around brainwashing each other, trying to uphold their new-found comfort of not being ASHAMED. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unseen_Abilities Posted March 17, 2014 Ehhh, I love Aikido - Things were just getting pushed up to my conscious mind as they were getting changed at a deeper level. The idea of self-acceptance goes deeper than the term used to imply to me - How readily can I accept that part of me is an absolutely brutal saboteur that would do anything to mess up my life for as long as possible? Dude was trying to get me to stop training by creating this non-beneficial internal situation. Anyway, now that that's cleared up, I remember reading something about Hero Worship going on in Bujinkan Ninjutsu, does anyone know anything about that? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
liminal_luke Posted March 17, 2014 Thanks CT for your posting about the philosophy of Karate. I suppose it's like anything, what you get mostly depends on the individual teacher--as pointed out my Nungali and Colonel Goji. The karate class here gets a rave review from a friend so I think I'll at least try it. Tai chi certainly has it's appeal, and if I knew of an excellent teacher here I might try it as well, but I think maybe there's something about karate that is more likely to fill the particular quality that's lacking in me right now. Perhaps choosing a martial art is a little like deciding what food would most nourish your body. When people are very balanced they spontaneously crave what's good for them. When they aren't so exquisitely balanced sometimes the tendency is to avoid the very thing most needed. We don't always want our broccoli, even when it would indeed be good for us. Right now, I suspect Karate is my broccoli. Liminal 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rara Posted March 17, 2014 I was young, inexperienced, I just accepted it as I had nothing to compare it with. I learnt some good basics. I moved on. (But it was full of holes ... I might have been able to win a comp in that style ... or others, as we taught we were the mother style or somehow better .... but it was a hopeless system of fighting and self-defence. Once during a ' first really good session' with an Aikido teacher , he did something that rather amazed me and asked him how he did that. He got indignant and said " I am not going to tell you that" I got a bit pissed off, I mean, wasnt that what I was paying him for. I had a bit of a think on it and came to the conclusion that he might have said; "I am not going to tell you that." So I tried watching and feeling instead. This is what I like about my instructor. He teaches what HE was taught, so all questions are welcome. He takes pride in our progress. He also tweaks a lot and changes stuff. Throws stuff out if it appears useless. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rara Posted March 17, 2014 (edited) Please forgive if I'm veering a little off-topic, but what do you guys think about Karate? Ordinarily I'd gravitate towards something more philosophically hip (aikido) or energetically profound (tai chi or bagua), but in-person teachers are scarce in my little corner of Mexico. I have absolutely no interest in beating anybody up-- and getting my ass kicked has, if possible, even less appeal--so an aggressive, macho atmosphere won't work for me. That said, I could really stand to get in better shape: improve my aerobic capacity, agility, basic strength, and so forth. All that kicking and punching might be just the thing. Thoughts? Liminal Try Wing Chun if you have a school near you. It takes Taoist principles of softness while still teaching you how to defend yourself. Karate is unrealistic an ineffective imo... Edited March 17, 2014 by Rara 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted March 17, 2014 What does it mean by mind control....???How should the mind be controlled in martial arts....??? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rara Posted March 17, 2014 What does it mean by mind control....??? How should the mind be controlled in martial arts....??? Mind contol...as in a teacher brainwashing students with negative and useless ideas... 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted March 17, 2014 (edited) Mind contol...as in a teacher brainwashing students with negative and useless ideas... Oh...is this what the OP was all about.....??? I'll be darn. At first, I thought mind control was about self discipline and muscle control by focusing on certain part of the body. Edited March 17, 2014 by ChiDragon 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rara Posted March 17, 2014 (edited) Oh...is this what the OP was all about.....??? I'll be darn. At first, I thought mind control was about self discipline and muscle control by focusing on certain part of the body. Haha. i see how you got confused Read the link in the OP...very interesting stuff. Edited March 17, 2014 by Rara 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted March 17, 2014 What about capoeira? Possibly the most aerobic MA. Plus there's music, and more girls to tone down the some of the machismo (if they aren't the biggest perpetrators..). WHAT ???? You mean groups of male Capoeira players dont go out in malls and parks and show off to pick up young girls anymore ??? (Stand still while I jump over my friend and remove this plastic take-away cup from the top of your head with a flying reverse roundhouse) Dear oh dear ... what are Marital Arts turning into nowadays But WITH music ... Oh yeah ! Way to go IMO ... my neighbour plays a bit of Cap and is a Samba drummer, we experimented by me taking my 3 (Mr Hohan) Soken Sai and 3 Soken Kama Katas and transforming them to a twin machete form while he worked out some rhythms to go with the pattern - cool stuff. There are some little cute looking dances the Okinawans do to music ... if you know what those 'dance moves' mean ; one - move inside and absorb bo blow, flick eyes with fingernails, punch down through arms , rotate while grabbing other end of bo with other hand = one end of staff holding arm in arm lock, other end between legs squashing goolies, body bent forward, step in and big toe kick to under the ear or in the face. .... and they look so little and cute when they do that little 'happy dance ' 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted March 17, 2014 (edited) Try Wing Chun if you have a school near you. It takes Taoist principles of softness while still teaching you how to defend yourself. Karate is unrealistic an ineffective imo... What karate has become in the mainstream is unrealistic and ineffective there are a good series of these : - one minute bunkai - (obviously slowed down and deconstructed ) and Wing chun has very good and realistic principles . It is related to white crane style ? yes ? Shorin Ryu us said to have a major component descended from white crane ... its main form is hakatsuru - crane form ... I didnt get that far ... just a bit beyond Rohi ( The Heron) ... amd just touched on Kusanku ... which is said to have been introduced by a Chinese envoy. So, Shorin- Ryu has white crane hakatsuru, Chinto from a Chinese pirate, Kusanku from a Chinese envoy .... etc. Wing chun and white crane kung fu may actually be a 'purer form' of these - but I have very little experience with Chinese martial arts Its full of intertwined locks, tripping up footwork, pressure points, take downs ... waaaay beyond me. Edited March 17, 2014 by Nungali Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted March 17, 2014 Mind contol...as in a teacher brainwashing students with negative and useless ideas... No .... thats what it shouldnt be It should be control of ones own mind ... and controlling the mind of your opponent - note to teachers ... the student is NOT the opponent, 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unseen_Abilities Posted March 17, 2014 Oh...is this what the OP was all about.....??? I'll be darn. At first, I thought mind control was about self discipline and muscle control by focusing on certain part of the body. Don't worry, it's cool. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rara Posted March 18, 2014 No .... thats what it shouldnt be It should be control of ones own mind ... and controlling the mind of your opponent - note to teachers ... the student is NOT the opponent, I never said it should ... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted March 19, 2014 No, you didnt. My answer was in relation to what chi dragon said, I thought he was asking about the post title subject , I didnt mean to infer that is what you thought mind control in the martial arts is. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rara Posted March 20, 2014 Oh, get ya. Yeah, as I was responding to CD and as you quoted me, I thought you where implying that I was in favour of brainwashing haha. No worries. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
