dawei Posted March 16, 2014 Being a subforum, there should be more respect for serious posts. The side-tracking posts can be split out if requested. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
宁 Posted March 16, 2014 I am afraid I am not fluent in written or spoken Chinese, but luckily Li Erh is fluent in English! Immortals can speak and write many languages, unlike us mere humans they can learn almost in an instant. If LI Erh honours me with his teachings then it will be the best translation and meaning in English you will get. There will be no need of Chinese characters. Thank you for that, I had a good laugh this morning! My work here is done. No intent to belittle your efforts, looks like nice poetry. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff Posted March 16, 2014 And so I cast my pearls amongst the swine! 82 Deep was the knowledge of the Ancient Masters. It was so deep that it was beyond words or comprehension. Perfect was their Dao; they acted only when necessary. So deep was their knowledge, words could not explain what they knew. For rooted deep in their hearts their cultivation of oneness produced the 'Golden Light'. In seeking the Dao, one first must cultivate the 'White Light' and then the 'Blue'. If men should seek such cultivation within themselves, the world would be in more harmony. The Sage seeks the 'White Light' and with his selfless actions he can be fulfilled and help others to be fulfilled. Cultivate the self; by letting go of this and choosing that, one can begin to understand the Dao. 83 A great tree stretches its limbs towards the Heavens. Men should be like trees. A great tree draws its goodness from the Earth and from the Heavens. Men should be like trees. For the goodness in all things comes from the Earth and from the Heavens. Be at one with Heaven and Earth. If you are at one with Heaven and Earth you can become Divine. Being Divine, you can be at one forever. Thank you for sharing. I particularly found 82 interesting. Do you have any further thoughts on the specific associations of the colors? First white, then blue... what would you say they are supposed to mean? Then is golden after or found in the combination of the two? Best wishes, Jeff Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mark Saltveit Posted March 16, 2014 When I was in college, there was a man of free if not easy wandering who lived in Cambridge Commons. Known as The Tree Man because he in fact spent his day being more like a tree. I saw him often but don't recall any conversations; he was disinclined to share what he knew. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flowing hands Posted March 16, 2014 Thank you for that, I had a good laugh this morning! My work here is done. No intent to belittle your efforts, looks like nice poetry. So it is said 'those that know of the great Dao are just a few, those that think they know are many' 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flowing hands Posted March 16, 2014 Hi Jeff In Daoist cultivation there are many levels, when one gets to the highest level your energy can be seen and it is Gold. This is the energy of Immortals. White and blue are other energy spectrum's of lower levels of cultivation. So Li Erh is describing the Ancient Masters as reaching the highest level of their knowledge of the Dao. The various verses to come from Li Erh are going to be more specific, less political, but more to do with practices. This is probably why they were left out. For instance, 83 and the great tree. What does it remind you of? For anyone who practices Qi gong there should be some symbolic reference. To me it reminded me straight away about the Holyman/woman humbly surrendering themselves to the earth and to the Heavens. For we can never learn anything without being humble. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted March 16, 2014 For we can never learn anything without being humble. That is so true that I just wanted to repeat it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
宁 Posted March 16, 2014 So it is said 'those that know of the great Dao are just a few, those that think they know are many' Sadly so. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff Posted March 16, 2014 Hi Jeff In Daoist cultivation there are many levels, when one gets to the highest level your energy can be seen and it is Gold. This is the energy of Immortals. White and blue are other energy spectrum's of lower levels of cultivation. So Li Erh is describing the Ancient Masters as reaching the highest level of their knowledge of the Dao. The various verses to come from Li Erh are going to be more specific, less political, but more to do with practices. This is probably why they were left out. For instance, 83 and the great tree. What does it remind you of? For anyone who practices Qi gong there should be some symbolic reference. To me it reminded me straight away about the Holyman/woman humbly surrendering themselves to the earth and to the Heavens. For we can never learn anything without being humble. Hi Shaman Flowing Hands, Thank you for your insights related to the colors. In your experience, could white be associated with mind and possibly blue associated with heart? Also, in your tradition/experience is there such a thing as "clear"? The absence of color (or beyond golden)? 83 is also an excellent verse. A tree is the an excellent "sage". It has deep root in the earth (life), grows in the sun and reaches to the sky (heavens). It is very wise because it knows both motion (growing season) and repose (rest in the winter). It does not try to go it alone, but shares what it has (shade, fruit, home) with others. Thank you for the discussion. Best wishes. 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brian Posted March 16, 2014 Thank you, flowing hands. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted March 16, 2014 That is so true that I just wanted to repeat it. Very humble! Now FH is LZ himself. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flowing hands Posted March 16, 2014 Hi Shaman Flowing Hands, Thank you for your insights related to the colors. In your experience, could white be associated with mind and possibly blue associated with heart? Also, in your tradition/experience is there such a thing as "clear"? The absence of color (or beyond golden)? 83 is also an excellent verse. A tree is the an excellent "sage". It has deep root in the earth (life), grows in the sun and reaches to the sky (heavens). It is very wise because it knows both motion (growing season) and repose (rest in the winter). It does not try to go it alone, but shares what it has (shade, fruit, home) with others. Thank you for the discussion. Best wishes. Yes I agree with your points about the tree, but I got the feeling when Li Erh was telling me this part, he was emphasizing aspects to do with us being humble and respecting the Dao as the source of life for all things. The colours relate to the depth of your cultivation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dawei Posted March 16, 2014 82 Deep was the knowledge of the Ancient Masters. . . . Cultivate the self; by letting go of this and choosing that, one can begin to understand the Dao. Thanks for sharing these verses. This caught my eye... references to the ancient masters (before Li Erh) and "this vs that" which is reminiscent of Zhuang Zi (after Li Erh). His message seems to be the summation of thought which transcend time on some level. And parallel to becoming one with Dao (which is beyond before-this-, and after-that). 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mark Saltveit Posted March 16, 2014 In your experience, could white be associated with mind and possibly blue associated with heart? In the Warring States period of China, the heart was understood to be what humans thought with. Edward Slingerland, a professor of classical Chinese, uses the term "heart-mind" when translating Daoist texts for that reason. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted March 16, 2014 (edited) In the Warring States period of China, the heart was understood to be what humans thought with. Edward Slingerland, a professor of classical Chinese, uses the term "heart-mind" when translating Daoist texts for that reason. Yes, the ancient people thought the heart was the center of the human body; and all the thoughts were generated from the heart. Thus the heart is one's mind. The same people still say things like "I sing the song with my heart" to show one's dedication about the matter. PS.... It was understood that the "heart" is the "mind" in the mind of a Chinese. Edited March 18, 2014 by ChiDragon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flowing hands Posted March 16, 2014 In the Warring States period of China, the heart was understood to be what humans thought with. Edward Slingerland, a professor of classical Chinese, uses the term "heart-mind" when translating Daoist texts for that reason. There's a bit more to it than that!!! But yes the mind and heart can run together or separately. Some things can only be known or understood by the mind and some only by the heart. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted March 16, 2014 Very humble! Now FH is LZ himself. I never went that far! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flowing hands Posted March 16, 2014 Very humble! Now FH is LZ himself. Well CD I can't spell it out enough, here you have a unique opportunity for true understanding of Li Erh's words. He has been my teacher for thirty years along with my other two Immortal Masters. It is unique even more so because Li Erh never teaches shamans, but he has chosen me to do so. Let go of your prejudices and any idea about what you think you know. Many things in this world are real and possible, it is your mind that blocks your understanding to even the basic knowledge. The whole teaching of Li Erh is about being open to all things, like the Dao, so practice it!!! 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flowing hands Posted March 16, 2014 I never went that far! When the spirit comes upon you you will have realization. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted March 16, 2014 When the spirit comes upon you you will have realization. Hehehe. I have had spirits come upon me but I realized nothing because I passed out. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flowing hands Posted March 20, 2014 (edited) Here is verse 84 Edited November 16, 2014 by flowing hands 7 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff Posted March 20, 2014 (edited) Hi Shaman Flowing Hands, Having an open heart seems to be the key to this verse. Could you speak a little more on what having an open and humble heart means to you? Also, in your tradition and practices, can it be seen or felt in the "energy body"? Thank you, Jeff Edited March 20, 2014 by Jeff 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted March 20, 2014 (edited) Following the way requires strength. I thought: "Following the way gives strength." Edited March 20, 2014 by ChiDragon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flowing hands Posted March 20, 2014 Hi Shaman Flowing Hands, Having an open heart seems to be the key to this verse. Could you speak a little more on what having an open and humble heart means to you? Also, in your tradition and practices, can it be seen or felt in the "energy body"? Thank you, Jeff Well for western people it is not within their culture to lay themselves completely to the surrender of an Immortal or God. Traditional practices in shamanism require the novice to be completely humble and to show great respect for the Immortal master. These things are within the Asian culture, or should I say were. As it is written, to begin with one must empty the mind of everything in order for it to begin to understand. Desire which comes from the heart/mind etc. has to be let go of, until the mind/heart is completely free and empty. This is very difficult. Dao xin is a state of being and understanding that can only be achieved after one has achieved the above. 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flowing hands Posted March 20, 2014 I thought: "Following the way gives strength." It does but Li Erh is talking about finding ones way along the path, which may involve many obstacles, including facing the self. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
