Thoughts on Ukraine / Russia Debacle?!

[yabyum24]

You have a keen understanding as to the political dynamics and history of the region.

"If you know your history, then you know where you're coming from".

Marley (who didn't quite mean it like that )

Edited March 17, 2014 by yabyum24

[ralis]

"If you know your history, then you know where you're coming from".

Marley

 

I absolutely agree! Unfortunately, the study of history is neglected by most here in the U.S. I have seen some writing which could be nothing more than conjecture, that the Ukrainian oil fields that are largely undeveloped may play into this crisis. Any thoughts on that scenario?

Edited March 17, 2014 by ralis

[yabyum24]

I absolutely agree! Unfortunately, the study of history is neglected by most here in the U.S. I have seen some writing which could be nothing more than conjecture, that the Ukrainian oil fields that are largely undeveloped may play into this crisis. Any thoughts on that scenario?

There's definitely been a big behind the scenes tug of war contest between east and west prior to this exploding. It's probably a noxious brew of economics and strategic concerns. If the Ukraine wants to buy-in to the EU, then oil is 'black gold' and can help finance it, especially if global corporations get their mitts onto those oil fields, look at how the oil was "privatised" in Iraq.

 

Russia, obviously wouldn't be keen to see that happen, but probably will settle for cutting its losses and keeping the Crimea. A bit of a carve-up by both players IMHO.

[joeblast]

That is due to the fact that you fail to write in a clear precise manner. Your narrative is nothing more than fragmented opinions with no real context.

that'd hold water if it was everyone misinterpreting what I say, man. most often its just your own personal coloring on what you think I'm trying to say, and everyone that gets what I write scratches their head at just how the hell you arrived at your conclusion of my words.

 

wasnt the first, or tenth time, wont be the last

[joeblast]

Obama is simply trying to execute what his puppetmaster, Zbigniew Brzezinski, already dictated back in 1997:

As is Schwartz "George Soros" György:

what'd you expect for a response form the perennial Soros excuser

[soaring crane]

The Ukraine was included in the formation of the USSR in 1922. That is why Ukrainians relate to Russia.

 

that's it? That's the only reason?

 

I thought it went back a little further than that and that the story was a little more complex than the 'formation of the USSR'. I know that much, without having studied the subject.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia%E2%80%93Ukraine_relations#History_of_relations

[joeblast]

as usual, a border gets arbitrarily draw by people that dont live where the lines are drawn.

 

I guess that makes it easier to break the place u pin the future if you need to

[Nungali]

Why did Russia 'give' the Crimea to Ukraine in the first place ?

[DalTheJigsaw123]

I think it is important to remember that many, if not most, of the people living in the Crimea are Russian or at least pro-Russian. And too, Russia has vested interests in that area. Russian oil and gas pipelines run through the area.

 

Yeah, I mean the Russian people voted for Putin.

[DalTheJigsaw123]

Thank you all for commenting/reading and contributing! I really appreciate your time!

[DalTheJigsaw123]

I wanted to add this: Puttin is quite off-putting! LMAO! I know he has done a lot in Russia in the sense of economy, but now he is becoming more and more of a dictator! This is his third term, if you will not include his friend being the president and him being the vice-president. The people, however, did vote for him, so what else can I say...But I will try to speak from the Ukrainian standpoint, in my next article.Thanks again!!

[Infinity]

A part of me thinks people get what they want, although they may not necessarily like what they get.

 

And another part of me thinks people get what they think they deserve which is probably what they think they want. And I think we operate as individuals and on mass and it's all a matter of self worth.

 

If the whole of society was torn down it would rebuild itself and the people with more self worth would put themselves on top of the people with less. Regardless of states and borders all the injustice in the world in my humble opinion comes down to self worth.

 

Lets just hope for the sake of the people of the current Ukraine that they move towards what they want as opposed to what they don't and they do it with pure hearts and a self worth which regards their fellow man/woman equal to themselves.

 

∞

Edited March 17, 2014 by Infinity

[Taomeow]

removed with apologies

Edited March 23, 2014 by Taomeow

[zerostao]

The Grand Chessboard

???

i understand that i am merely a hillbilly laid up under an appalachian shade tree(with my lil brown jug)

but umm, i dont see chess as the game we need to try and play against Russians.

in their own yard even

[soaring crane]

Frankly, I don't want to offend anyone if I can help it but I do have to say this: to be qualified for this discussion, one would have to spend years studying the issue --

 

exactly. And that excludes the bulk of the western diplomats, as well.

[soaring crane]

one last point - the only thing about Krim that has interested me in the last 30 years is the bubbly, and that means I probably have a better understanding of the region than most of the armchair quarterbacks, while at the same time knowing virtually nothing.

 

Nastrovje!

[Nungali]

 

It was Nikita Khrushchev, in 1954, who gave the Crimea to Ukraine as a "gift to his Ukrainian comrades," and it was exactly this -- an overlord of the empire dispensing favors to feudal lords to win their support. He was in power less than a year by then if memory serves, and was mostly working on solidifying it and strengthening his own position. Ukraine (a fiction in and of itself created earlier by Lenin)

Okay, thanks ... now I have to go a bit further back and check out what Lenin did. ... and the 'fiction' of Ukraine

[idquest]

The Ukraine was included in the formation of the USSR in 1922. That is why Ukrainians relate to Russia.

 

You haven't done your homework. You could go as back as 17th century when Ukraine asked Russia to protect it against Poland and by doing that it became a part of Russian Empire.

 

Even more confusing, you could go back to XII (or XI th) century when a political entity was established with a name of Kyivska Russia with the capital in Kyiv.

Edited March 18, 2014 by idquest

[ralis]

You haven't done your homework. You could go as back as 17th century when Ukraine asked Russia to protect it against Poland and by doing that it became a part of Russian Empire.

 

Even more confusing, you could go back to XII (or XI th) century when a political entity was established with a name of Kyivska Russia with the capital in Kyiv.

 

I was posting in regards to the formation of the USSR (CCCP) which most here can relate to. The discussion is not in regards to a general overview of Russian history. There has been some speculation that Putin may want to reunite the old USSR which at this point is conjecture.

Edited March 18, 2014 by ralis

[dawei]

I was posting in regards to the formation of the USSR (CCCP) which most here can relate to. The discussion is not in regards to a general overview of Russian history. There has been some speculation that Putin may want to reunite the old USSR which at this point is conjecture.

 

This is in Off Topic, so the range of discussion is not really limited. If someone wants to explore a newer or different angle, they can open a new thread... but not required.

 

Great topic and great discussion... Carry on !!

[Taomeow]

removed with apologies

Edited March 23, 2014 by Taomeow

[Friend]

Strategy and tactics with using information and misinformation.

In the rabbit hole there is a labyrinth.

 

The world has to decide pro, contra, ignore or confusion.

If hidden Agenda are that easy to read as normaly it is seizure

of tactial objects, territory advantage,resources or as ....test

for a bigger Agenda.

 

The information the puplic masses have decide who they join

in conflict. And our thoughts on facebook and elsewhere

targets us as and filter and give enough information as well on forums

to see where we stand to make them act first without need to take time to find

out as some people in east germany told me about monitoring, even from and by friends.

 

As well I see this act show where each country like to stand

in this conflict and where the polarisation lies.

As if they are on your side you will have their willing support

even if you have trick them to do so.

Also I do expect in this age some very dangerous advisors

who only let you see some steps to guide you around and let you

see what you want to see.

 

I hope that the countermeasuring equal forces can keep the balance

so the conflict do not escalate.

 

Where do we stand in this conflict as civilians and how to do the best

in this conflict beside information filtering and keeping calm and attentive?

[silent thunder]

No way Russia is going to risk that area to any unknown.

They'll be parking their muscle there for some time to come.

[ralis]

This is long, but for anyone trying to figure out what's really happening, some access to accurate information is invaluable -- and far as I've been able to discern, this is one of the exceedingly rare sources in English currently dispensing the red pill... you know what I'm talking about, right? -- that brutally bitter red pill you swallow on the way out of the Matrix...

 

http://www.globalresearch.ca/ukraines-democratic-coup-detat-washingtons-neo-nazi-neoliberal-proxy-government/5373073

 

Chris Hedges points out in this excellent piece the underlying cause in the decline of empires.

 

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/welcome_to_satans_ball_20140309

 

 

Bulgakov, Mann and Roth understood that here is no real political ideology among decayed ruling elites. They knew that political debate and ideological constructs for these elites is absurdist theater, a species of entertainment for the masses. They warned that once societies enter terminal decay, in the end it is the blunt forces of censorship, relentless propaganda, coercion, fear and finally terror that keep a subdued population in check. Those who hold power in such systems are thieves who run a vast kleptocracy.

[Taomeow]

removed with apologies

Edited March 23, 2014 by Taomeow