Thoughts on Ukraine / Russia Debacle?!

[ralis]

Mann and Roth's two books that Hedges refers to.

 

 

http://www.amazon.com/Magic-Mountain-Thomas-Mann/dp/0679772871/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1395110427&sr=1-1&keywords=thomas+mann

 

 

http://www.amazon.com/Hotel-Savoy-Hesperus-Classics-Joseph/dp/1843913860/ref=sr_1_10?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1395110562&sr=1-10&keywords=joseph+roth

[ralis]

 

The quality went down with privatization... ...but it started downhill even earlier, when Gorbachev launched an anti-drinking campaign (like a quarter-hearted Prohibition, with stores selling alcohol only till 5 pm and other idiotic and useless measures) and attacked, of all things, Crimean amazing plantations of wine grapes, eradicating quite a few of the rare and unique species entirely. Gone is the peerless Isabella (which is apparently currently banned in the EU... the things the overlords think up banning in pursuit of their nefarious agendas... did you know blackcurrants were banned in the US for over a hundred years and still are in most states? -- competition is the name of the game... but don't let me digress).

 

There was no conspiracy among the overlords in banning Ribes nigrum 'black currant'. The problem was that this particular species was a vector for white pine blister. This species only caused problems when planted within 1000 ft. of 'white pines'. New white pine blister resistant cultivars have since been developed.

 

http://www.ag.ndsu.edu/carringtonrec/northern-hardy-fruit-evaluation-project/fruit-index/black-currant

[Taomeow]

removed with apologies

Edited March 23, 2014 by Taomeow

[ralis]

 

Oh, the C word I used was "competition," not "conspiracy." Relax.

 

If indeed in this case it was based on neither and instead on scientific incompetence and sloppiness jumping the gun of law-making (as it does thousands of times every year), it was just another facet of the same "diamond" of power. I never said there's only one, abuse of power is a very creative process, a gamut from pure and absolute evil to pure and absolute idiocy, with countless in-betweens.

 

Blackcurrants ban may or may not fall under the "absolute idiocy" rather than "absolute evil" category (FYI it's not resistant strains of white pine that have been developed, it's scientific understanding of the absurdity of the original 1911 claim), but I know and love dozens of other berries, common all over Eurasia, easy to grow, and vastly superior both in flavor and nutritionally to the few you can buy at your local supermarket, that are off limits here. Do you have a similar official story for each and every one of them? I'm sure you would find one if asked, they have a narrative for every query, no one doubts that..

 

I qouted an article from a university as to the development of Cronartium ribicola resistant cultivars. However, you show nothing to base your argument on. To repeat myself, certain species of Ribes nigrum are vectors for Cronartium ribicola. That is a scientific fact based on extensive research.

 

http://forestpathology.cfans.umn.edu/pdf/Ribes.pdf

 

http://www.issg.org/database/species/ecology.asp?si=550

 

http://ohioline.osu.edu/hyg-fact/3000/pdf/3205.pdf

 

http://extension.umass.edu/fruitadvisor/ne-small-fruit-management-guide/currants-and-gooseberries

[ralis]

 

 

 

Blackcurrants ban may or may not fall under the "absolute idiocy" rather than "absolute evil" category (FYI it's not resistant strains of white pine that have been developed, it's scientific understanding of the absurdity of the original 1911 claim),

 

I am cognizant of the fact that Pinus strobus "White Pine" has nothing to do with developing resistant cultivars of any species of Pinus strobus. Ribes nigrum is the vector for the disease and Cronartium ribicola resistant cultivars are what I am discussing.

 

I can give an extensive lecture here on this subject in which I have extensive academic qualifications to do so. However, that would not be within the purview of the topic at hand.

Edited March 18, 2014 by ralis

[Taomeow]

removed with apologies

Edited March 23, 2014 by Taomeow

[ralis]

Bingo. I mentioned them in parentheses as an aside because it's my style -- to put a peripheral thought of mine in parentheses as I go on with the main theme, the way a background chord may be improvised by a musician who does not intend to change the piece she is playing, only to color it here and there with her very own spontaneous variations that are not meant to distract anyone from the main theme. So, how about read the article I referenced?.. maybe?.. THEN we will have something to discuss. Maybe.

 

Although I dunno... You strike me as an obligatory conformist, from your multiple contributions on assorted controversial issues... I may be wrong of course, but I have never seen you change your mind or seek information outside the box you are already comfortable in, or show any respect toward those who do.

 

Thrilled to learn about your blackcurrant expertise though. I've none aside from having made several jars of most delicious preserves out of it one rainy summer in Latvia, under white pines...

 

I am not a conformist as you so imagine. My 'out of the box' thinking has little to do with conspiracy theories or other far flung issues so readily posited and accepted as fact on this site. Critical thinking is an attribute not a fault.

 

BTW, I was speaking from a perspective of disease vectors in plants as opposed to any special consideration of currants. The disease vectors are especially fascinating in the context of this brief diversion from the topic at hand.

Edited March 18, 2014 by ralis

[Taomeow]

removed with apologies

Edited March 23, 2014 by Taomeow

[soaring crane]

 

The quality went down with privatization... ... .

Ah, maaaaan, now you went and spoilt it for me....

 

Sidenote: currants in German are called Johannisbeere i. e. St. John's berries :-)

 

Sinjin got around a lot it seems.

(it really just has to do with the date, same as St John's Wort)

Edited March 18, 2014 by soaring crane

[Marblehead]

There has been some speculation that Putin may want to reunite the old USSR which at this point is conjecture.

I would be willing to bet that if we could see inside Putin's mind that this is what we would find.

[Marblehead]

I am not a conformist as you so imagine.

No shit?!

 

Hehehe.

[ralis]

No shit?!

 

Hehehe.

 

To judge me by what few posts I make here is being disingenuous. Much of what is posted on this forum borders on hearsay, conspiracy theories, fallacious reasoning, pseudoscience and all manner of far flung BS!

Edited March 18, 2014 by ralis

[SonOfTheGods]

 

Thoughts on Ukraine / Russia Debacle?!

Good thoughts, only

[Marblehead]

To judge me by what few posts I make here is being disingenuous. Much of what is posted on this forum borders on hearsay, conspiracy theories, fallacious reasoning, pseudoscience and all manner of far flung BS!

Yeah, I consider you a rational and logical person (except when you get emotionally involved in a discussion) and beyond that I am unable to make any kind of judgement whatever.

 

But then, we all are still the same person we are regardless of the judgements of others (which really doesn't matter much at all).

[Marblehead]

Good thoughts, only

I accept only my own limits. Hehehe.

[ChiForce]

What do you need to know? The Crimea fate is Wu Wei Wu. Yet, the West seems to be hell bend on it to prevent it from happening. What do you get when your actions are going against the Tao? The Tao does not care. In fact, the Crimea secession is the yin. Yin gives rise to Yang...in this case, the possible expansion of the Russian army into the Eastern part of Ukraine in order to restore law and order there. Yang is rising in the Eastern part of Ukraine with pro-Russia sentiment. Because the West knows not the Tao, they haven't been preparing for the Yang rising....

[thelerner]

Yet, the West seems to be hell bend on it to prevent it from happening.

The west is against it, but I wouldn't say hell bent. There's saber rattling, but no drastic red lines or war talk. There will be sanctions, but I don't think they'll be too severe or long lived. Especially if the majority of Crimeans keep up there support and Putin doesn't do anything too authoritarian there. Europe postures but has no stomach for fighting the hand that warms them.

[joeblast]

oh, the IMF's hellbent, trust

 

#debtslave

[Marblehead]

That caused me a chuckle. But it is a truth.

[thelerner]

I hear the phrase nazi'ish Urkaine government/take over. I haven't found good links that give me solid information on how literally to take that. I certainly know they are pro Europe. Any links with good analysis and not so much bias.

 

What I'm looking for is info on there rhetoric, politics and likely aims. I'm assuming/hoping the nazi- comparisons thrown around are over blown. There are certainly unabashed neo-nazi style nationalist groups gaining seats in the European countries hardest hit by austerity.

 

thanks.

[joeblast]

I think the pro western factions of ukraine have a bad case of the grass is greener and dont know that the grass in the eu is only green because of veritable spray paint

[joeblast]

ah, deposit confiscation *coughCypruscough*

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-03-20/ukraine-goes-cyprus-20-tax-deposits-over-100000-hryvnia-appease-imf

 

It would appear the IMF's dirty little fingerprints are all over this latest piece of legislation in Ukraine. The Ukraine Finance Ministry is proposing to take a very-similar-to-Cyprus approach to bailing in its despositors:

• *UKRAINE PROPOSES NEW TAX ON DEPOSITS EXCEEDING 100,000 HRYVNIA
• *UKRAINE TAX PROPOSAL WOULD INCLUDE 1.5% OF ALL DEPOSITS

This would appear a measure designed to stabilize the budget for potential IMF negotiations and fits perfectly with what the IMF has consistently hinted as the next steps for many nations.

 

This is further to the news last week that a 25% deposit "tax" was being considered...

Via Tax News,

 

Ukraine's parliament is to consider draft laws which would ban foreign-currency bank deposits and introduce a 25% tax on interest on deposits in banks and other financial institutions in circumstances where the interest received is more than 5% above the rate set by the National Bank of Ukraine.

 

The proposed amendments to banking and tax legislation were put forward by Yevhen Sihal, who is a member of the country's ruling Party of Regions. In an explanatory note submitted with the drafts, he argued that the higher tax rate will encourage consumer spending, reduce the cost of business loans, and provide extra funding for the country's Pension Fund. Sihal also explained that his tax proposal is based on the experience of the Russian Federation.

 

Sihal's proposals have united the National Bank of Ukraine (NBU) and the country's Communist Party in opposition. The NBU was quoted as saying that it was concerned about the politicization of economic issues, and that its policy was to increase the deposit base in line with international practice, while Communist leader Petro Symonenko suggested that the

owners of large deposits will simply move their funds abroad to avoid the tax

.

We assume, just as with Cyprus, that the big money has already left the building leaving small businesses and the average joe to foot the IMF-demanding bill (for the good of the country) to get their bailout funds.

[Taomeow]

removed with apologies

Edited March 23, 2014 by Taomeow

[thelerner]

The article I linked earlier could be a good start into investigative research.

http://www.globalres...ernment/5373073

 

Here's a bit more for you to explore:

I didn't like that site. Its one of the reasons I was looking for information elsewhere. The article and the site seemed off to me. Used too much loaded language. Too many calls of Nazi without much background. I find the article you list below is better and has some good links.

 

Still, the more I learn, the more I see it as messy quagmire to be stayed away from. Course that was relatively clear from the get go. There is no winning scenario. Intelligent strategy seems to be staying out of it.

[SonOfTheGods]

Still, the more I learn, the more I see it as messy quagmire to be stayed away from. Course that was relatively clear from the get go. There is no winning scenario. Intelligent strategy seems to be staying out of it.

^This!