Thoughts on Ukraine / Russia Debacle?!

[Marblehead]

And the rebels (Russians) are serious about taking that city. Many will die before this goal is attained.

[Taomeow]

A year ago this was one of the best airports in Europe

 

Edited January 25, 2015 by Taomeow

[Marblehead]

Creation and destruction. A continual process.

[joeblast]

whatcha doing in mariupol, mister? that's some perfect native english there, american to be precise.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jW1JdOXdJkU&x-yt-ts=1421914688&x-yt-cl=84503534

[joeblast]

http://ian56.blogspot.com/2015/01/how-february-coup-in-kiev-was-plotted.html

 

 

Planning for the February 2014 Coup D'Etat in Kiev started in March 2013 (or earlier).

This amazing speech in Ukraine's Rada (Parliament) details how 300 people, under the direction of the US Embassy in Kiev, were to mobilize and manipulate social media in order to provoke protests that would lead to a Coup to oust Yanukovych and then start a Civil War.

 

 

 

 

This speech was made on 20th November 2013, i.e. the day before the sudden suspension of talks with the EU

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/21/ukraine-suspends-preparations-eu-trade-pact
So this was BEFORE the Maidan protests ever got going because everybody up to this point thought that Yanukovych was going to sign the EU association agreement.

The speech above specifies that 5 "TechCamps" had already been conducted by November.

 

 

 

 

March 2013 on
Training and mobilizing of 300 people started in March 2013 (or earlier) under the direct supervision of the US Embassy in Kiev.
This is the US Embassy's report of one of the camps held at Microsoft's Ukraine headquarters on March 1st and details a number of areas and methods within social media that were to be utilized to spread pro EU and pro US propaganda.
http://ukraine.usembassy.gov/events/techcamp-2013-kyiv.html
As the speech above says, this is how the pro-democracy protests were agitated and provoked in the past in places like Egypt, Tunisia and Libya to overthrow their governments. The same process was used to build support for Maidan - at the instigation of and with the active participation of the US government via the US Embassy in Kiev.

 

 

 

 

September 2013

In September 2013, one of Ukraine’s richest oligarchs, Viktor Pinchuk, paid for an elite strategic conference on Ukraine’s future that was held in the same Palace in Yalta, Crimea, where Roosevelt, Stalin and Churchill met to decide the future of Europe in 1945. The Economist, one of the elite media reporting on what it called a “display of fierce diplomacy”, stated that: “The future of Ukraine, a country of 48m people, and of Europe was being decided in real time.” The participants included Bill and Hillary Clinton, former CIA head General David Petraeus, former U.S. Treasury secretary Lawrence Summers, former World Bank head Robert Zoellick, Swedish foreign minister Carl Bildt, Shimon Peres, Tony Blair, Gerhard Schröder, Dominique Strauss-Kahn, Mario Monti, Lithuanian president Dalia Grybauskaite, and Poland’s influential foreign minister Radek Sikorski. Both President Viktor Yanukovych, deposed five months later, and his recently elected successor Petro Poroshenko were present. Former U.S. energy secretary Bill Richardson was there to talk about the shale-gas revolution which the United States hopes to use to weaken Russia by substituting fracking for Russia’s natural gas reserves. The center of discussion was the “Deep and Comprehensive Free Trade Agreement” (DCFTA) between Ukraine and the European Union, and the prospect of Ukraine’s integration with the West. The general tone was euphoria over the prospect of breaking Ukraine’s ties with Russia in favor of the West.
Read more at:- http://www.a-w-i-p.com/index.php/2014/06/09/washington-s-iron-curtain

 

 

 

 

Also from the above article:-
U.S. policy, already evident at the September 2013 Yalta meeting, was carried out on the ground by Victoria Nuland, former advisor to Dick Cheney, deputy ambassador to NATO, spokeswoman for Hillary Clinton, wife of neocon theorist Robert Kagan. Her leading role in the Ukraine events proves that the neo-con influence in the State Department, established under Bush II, was retained by Obama, whose only visible contribution to foreign policy change has been the presence of a man of African descent in the presidency, calculated to impress the world with U.S. multicultural virtue. Like most other recent presidents, Obama is there as a temporary salesman for policies made and executed by others.
As Victoria Nuland boasted in Washington, since the dissolution of the Soviet Union in 1991, the United States has spent five billion dollars to gain political influence in Ukraine (this is called “promoting democracy”). This investment is not “for oil”, or for any immediate economic advantage. The primary motives are geopolitical, because Ukraine is Russia’s Achilles’ heel, the territory with the greatest potential for causing trouble to Russia.

 

 

Putin's represntative Glazyev warned of dire consequences for Ukraine's economy and future debt defaults should Ukraine sign the EU trade agreement.

It would later be reported that the free trade agreement would cost the Ukraine economy something like $19bn a year for the next decade, by flooding Ukraine with EU goods at the expense of it's own economy. (This is without any other adverse factors, such as a Civil War or Russia no longer wanting Ukraine's exports or loss of Russian gas transit fees, or higher gas prices.)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/10483303/Ukraine-EU-trade-deal-QandA-why-Ukraines-refusal-to-sign-is-significant.html

 

 

 

Syria

Also in September, Putin foiled the plot by the US to start mass bombing of Assad in Syria by initiating negotiations to destroy Assad's chemical weapons.
There was already a huge public outcry against it and an almost total lack of international support (even the UK's parliament voted against supporting it).
Congress was already lining up to reject it.

 

 

 

October and November 2013
The details of the failed negotiations between the EU and Yanukovych in 2013, which led to the Euromaidan protests, which the US then exacerbated and turned violent to execute the Coup D'Etat in Kiev
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/war-in-ukraine-a-result-of-misunderstandings-between-europe-and-russia-a-1004706-2.html
The above report is from a German mainstream paper and is thus biased towards a EU and US perspective and against Putin and Russia.

Putin offered a $15bn loan plus cheap Russian gas and this deal was accepted by Yanukovych.

Mid December 2013
Both Victoria Nuland and John McCain visit Kiev to finalize the preparations of the Coup.
Meetings are held with Yatsenuk, Klitschko and Oleg Tyagnybok leader of the Neo Nazi Svoboda Party in Ukraine.
In the picture below Tyagnybok is standing on McCain's left.
The person on McCain's right is US Democratic Senator Chris Murphy (Connecticut)

John McCain Went To Ukraine And Stood On Stage With A Man Accused Of Being An Anti-Semitic Neo-Nazi
http://www.businessinsider.com/john-mccain-meets-oleh-tyahnybok-in-ukraine-2013-12

Victoria Nuland's meeting with Oleg Tyagnybok (circled) Arseniy "Yats" Yatsenyuk (the future interim PM) and Klitschko on 10th December 2013, the purpose of which we now know to be, to flesh out the details of the Coup in Kiev

Victoria Nuland and Geoffrey Pyatt (centre) meet Ukrainian opposition leaders Vitaly Klitschko (L) and Arseny Yatsenyuk ® in early February. Klitschko would later bow out of the Presidential election, to allow Poroshenko a clear run. Klitschko settled for being Mayor of Kiev.

February 2014
Victoria Nuland and Geoffrey Pyatt discuss who they would like to instal as the interim PM in Kiev.
(Nuland's infamous "Fuck the EU" tape)

 

Link:-

The full transcript of the leaked Nuland/Pyatt tape.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957

The Not-So-Secret Ukraine Phone Call
http://www.thenation.com/blog/178293/not-so-secret-ukraine-phone-call#

The full resources of the NED (aka National Endowment for Regime Change) and George Soros's Foundations had already been brought to bear to produce pro EU propaganda, ready for the protests.

This included the making of the video "I am a Ukrainian" which now has over 8 million views.

The "inspiration and Executive Producer" of this video was Larry Diamond - NED and CFR member.

See this for more details:-
http://scgnews.com/washingtons-role-in-the-ukrainian-coup-how-it-may-spin-out-of-control

The Violence in Maidan Square which led directly to the ousting of the legitimate (if deeply corrupt) Ukrainian Present - Yanukovych

9 facts that prove the U S is behind Ukraine crisis

 

ink:-

The plot thickens on the violent Maidan riots in Kiev February 2014, which triggered the Coup to install Yats.
An ex-IDF (Israeli Defense Force) who now lives in Ukraine and who commanded a force of 35 to 40 in a violent protest group, says that he was taking orders from the Neo Nazi Svoboda party.
http://nsnbc.me/2014/03/04/ukraine-israeli-special-forces-unit-neo-nazi-command-involved-maidan-riots/

he sniper fire came from the upper floors and roofs of buildings controlled by the protestors
(Other pictures show the Berkut Police firing - but they are firing downwards in front of the protestors to try and stop their advance NOT firing at them.)

The sniper's massacre in Maidan Feb 18th to 20th, that directly led to the Coup in Ukraine. An academic analysis by a Canadian.
http://www.academia.edu/8776021/The_Snipers_Massacre_on_the_Maidan_in_Ukraine

Kiev snipers hired by Maidan leaders - leaked EU's Ashton phone tape
http://rt.com/news/ashton-maidan-snipers-estonia-946/

Full Videoproof of Maidan snipers killing Ukraine Civilians Shooting From Behind! GRAPHIC !

The man in charge of those controlling the buildings from which the snipers fired was Andrey Parubiy who after the Coup was appointed head of the National Security and Defence Council of Ukraine.

On February 22nd Yanukovych fled Ukraine and has not since returned.
The Coup was complete.

[zerostao]

http://www.businessinsider.com/7-reasons-why-russia-backed-separatists-are-dominating-in-ukraine-2015-2

[zerostao]

at the moment there is too much going on with the ukraine situation to know where to begin to decide, what, to post.

its way past overwhelming.

[Taomeow]

Edited February 6, 2015 by Taomeow

[soaring crane]

whatcha doing in mariupol, mister? that's some perfect native english there, american to be precise.

 

?????

 

That was pretty strange

[zerostao]

“We are at a crossroads,” German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier told ARD television on Saturday. “The parties to the conflict must decide whether they want to escalate the conflict or move toward a settlement. Whether we can get on this path will be decided in the next two to three days.”

 

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/video-ukraine-summit-unsuccessful-u-084639239.html

 

i got my fingers crossed in hopes of peace'

despite

"Russia won’t tolerate the post-Cold War global system dominated by a single leader, Putin said Saturday at a meeting with the Federation of Independent Trade Unions in Sochi.

“That type of world order has never been acceptable for Russia,” Putin said. “Maybe someone likes it and wants to live under a pseudo-occupation, but we won’t put up with it.”

[joeblast]

when someone comes at you already throwing punches, you can be pretty sure they want to fight

[joeblast]

[joeblast]

truth is treason in the empire of lies

 

 

 

 

sucks when you get a target painted on you for expressing your views and someone doesnt like what you say.

 

Edited February 11, 2015 by joeblast

[zerostao]

high level diplomacy came up with a "peace agreement" and then the violence immediately escalated.

hmmm, that ol cherokee cowboy sage of a bygone era, will rogers;

"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock"

[Taomeow]

There's things about wars that can be learned from history.

 

No war in history ever ended until it lost meaning to one or both (or more) of the sides, or until one or both (or more) sides were rendered unable to go on.

 

This hasn't happened yet. Not even close.

 

So, to match your Will Rogers dog quote, here's a Russian dog proverb: "the dog barks, the wind carries on."

[zerostao]

i like the russian dog quote and it reminds me of a former bums dog quote, i will attempt to paraphrase, rather than search it

"if 100 dogs bark after it, it isn't a wolf"

more sides for sure. i think if there were not the more sides, this could be resolved between basically "cousins", sigh.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/31/bilderberg-ukraine-summit

[soaring crane]

Can it perhaps be this simple:

 

• US and allies don't like Putin and want natural resources in Ukraine
• US and allies deflate the price of oil, trashing the rouble and the Russian economy virtually overnight (as a demonstration of their power) and threaten to export weapons to Ukraine (because that just goes with the territory).
• Putin gets the message, agrees to a "peace deal" (Angela Merkel played middleman in this, but it's just an act).
• Oil price goes back up (Price at the pump here has gone up 6c a liter in the last week).
• Putin knows without doubt who's boss of the world and will cooperate in future (but put on a public show of defiance, to keep his office).
• Meanwhile, the poor Ukrainian people are hurting each other out of pure spite and pride, as a side-effect of western Realpolitik

 

Does that seem plausible?

[zerostao]

seems entirely plausible.

is it plausible that it could spread to every black sea nation?

 

http://www.polygon.com/2015/2/13/8036183/combat-mission-black-sea-launches-amidst-real-life-tensions-in-ukraine

 

Pyatt claimed on Twitter that the rebel troops "now have larger fighting force with more tanks armored vehicles, heavy artillery & rocket systems than some NATO and European countries."

It appears both sides are continuing their attacks ahead of the ceasefire.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/photos-prove-russian-weapons-deployed-eastern-ukraine-us-022200547--abc-news-topstories.html

 

is it also plausible that putin is not going to bow down to the banksters?

there is after all some tradition of russians not liking capitalists, no?

 

http://news.yahoo.com/russia-carries-snap-check-paratroopers-western-russia-160240829.html

 

http://news.yahoo.com/video/battle-rages-town-where-ukraine-175432115.html

Edited February 16, 2015 by zerostao

[Taomeow]

Can it perhaps be this simple:

 

• US and allies don't like Putin and want natural resources in Ukraine
• US and allies deflate the price of oil, trashing the rouble and the Russian economy virtually overnight (as a demonstration of their power) and threaten to export weapons to Ukraine (because that just goes with the territory).
• Putin gets the message, agrees to a "peace deal" (Angela Merkel played middleman in this, but it's just an act).
• Oil price goes back up (Price at the pump here has gone up 6c a liter in the last week).
• Putin knows without doubt who's boss of the world and will cooperate in future (but put on a public show of defiance, to keep his office).
• Meanwhile, the poor Ukrainian people are hurting each other out of pure spite and pride, as a side-effect of western Realpolitik

 

Does that seem plausible?

 

Plausible but it's even simpler:

 

1. The globalists want to kill two birds with one stone -- destabilize as many countries as possible toward profitable (for them, not the countries) powerlessness ensuing from the chaos unleashed, and make money off the wars used as tools toward this outcome while at it.  War is the biggest debt creator, banks (e.g.) profit exponentially more from wars than from loans and mortgages of peaceful times.  To say nothing of the weapons industries.  In short, what President Eisenhower warned about when he coined the term "military-industrial complex" not only alive and kicking but kicking stronger and stronger.  "Military-industrial complex" is, of course, a shy man's way of saying "corporate-government merger complex" -- both military and other industries being part of the "corporate" definition, and "government," of the "in the service of corporate" category.  Also known as fascism, by Benito Mussolini's definition.

 

2.  No one knows what Putin is up to.  If someone thinks they do, they either believed someone who made it up, or made it up themselves.  His nickname among people who know more than most: "The Impenetrably Endarkened one" (темнейший, a term coined out of светлейший -- "most brightly visible," a traditional title of the Russian aristocracy.)   

 

3. The bigger picture is even bigger methinks.  The local picture, in the meantime, much more tragic than the public in the West realizes. 

[idquest]

If Putin is pushed hard, like for instance by weapon supply from US to Ukraine, there is a real risk he will test a nuclear bomb. Just to show what else he has. THis will bring the escalation to a totally new level.

[zerostao]

escalation

[Apech]

If Putin is pushed hard, like for instance by weapon supply from US to Ukraine, there is a real risk he will test a nuclear bomb. Just to show what else he has. THis will bring the escalation to a totally new level.

 

 

Ach no.  It's a strategic game - Putin is putting down a marker to stop the EU/NATO encroaching any further in Eastern Europe - after all the ex Warsaw Pact countries are now in NATO.