I want a diploma.

[Icedude]

I was watching the movie Zen last week, and saw that Dogen was given a diploma when it said he had reached Nirvana.

I want a diploma too!

Where do I get one?

What hoops would I have to jump through to get one?

 

I'm expecting lots of clever answers below, about how people don't crave materialistic diplomas in Nirvana, or that I can make one myself.

 

It's like this: If you learn all the skills needed to be a neurosurgeon, you can go around telling people that you're a neurosurgeon all you want, but nobody will hire you until you get credentials. If you tell people that you're a neurosurgeon without credentials, people will simply think you're a loon. ...and maybe you are a loon too, but you would have no way of telling without credentials proving it to yourself too.

 

I tried taking internet quizes too, but while there are millions of internet quizes, I only found two pretty mediocre ones. (It said I'm a "bodhicitta", because the test maxed out at that result.)

 

Preferably I'd like to prove myself for free, without even getting out of my chair, if that's possible. (Yes, that makes me sound like an overweight American.)

[ChiDragon]

You can have one Taylor made very professionally for $10 online.

[Ish]

Well you have to reach nirvana first...

[ChiDragon]

Well you have to reach nirvana first...

 

No, you have to earn the $10 first.....

[zerostao]

You can have one Taylor made very professionally for $10 online.

will it have caligraphy and red chops, and a seal ?

[Icedude]

>You have to find an organization of people who already have diplomas preferably with

>prestige and recognition in this field to give you one (like neurosurgeons). I think you should

>try to get a trophy too.

 

Yeah, I'm thinking of travelling to the nearest buddhist temple in my western country, and asking people there. Still, I'm expecting a reply like: "No, I don't think you won our staring contest, but maybe if you spend three more years at this temple, you might win it someday. ...not that anybody won a staring contest with me yet, but you can always hope, and then give up that hope for inner peace."

 

 

>You can have one Taylor made very professionally for $10 online.

 

Is this "Taylor" a buddha or a bodhicitta? See, I need somebody with authority, or I'd just ask my mom.

 

 

 

Well you have to reach nirvana first...

 

Well, I'm kinda writing this from Nirvana, if that makes any sense. ...but maybe I'm not - who am I to judge if I'm just deluding myself or not? I tried to read up on what Nirvana is, and how to get there, and the definition varies depending on your beliefs. Some people (I think it was tibetan buddhists.) claim that you have to transform into a tiger mutant. ...so I guess I just have to go to enough temples until I find the one where my state of mind is defined as Nirvana.

Edited March 18, 2014 by Icedude

[ChiDragon]

will it have caligraphy and red chops, and a seal ?

Yes, I said Taylor made. Didn't I....???

 

PS....

Of course, you have to provide the seal.

Edited March 18, 2014 by ChiDragon

[BaguaKicksAss]

I was watching the movie Zen last week, and saw that Dogen was given a diploma when it said he had reached Nirvana.

I want a diploma too!

Where do I get one?

What hoops would I have to jump through to get one?

 

I'm expecting lots of clever answers below, about how people don't crave materialistic diplomas in Nirvana, or that I can make one myself.

 

It's like this: If you learn all the skills needed to be a neurosurgeon, you can go around telling people that you're a neurosurgeon all you want, but nobody will hire you until you get credentials. If you tell people that you're a neurosurgeon without credentials, people will simply think you're a loon. ...and maybe you are a loon too, but you would have no way of telling without credentials proving it to yourself too.

 

I tried taking internet quizes too, but while there are millions of internet quizes, I only found two pretty mediocre ones. (It said I'm a "bodhicitta", because the test maxed out at that result.)

 

Preferably I'd like to prove myself for free, without even getting out of my chair, if that's possible. (Yes, that makes me sound like an overweight American.)

 

I'm pretty sure there are some folks over in (the tourist sections thereof) wudang mountain who would be more than happy to help you out... though it wouldn't be free, and you would have to get out of your chair . Silk pajamas extra.

[Icedude]

Yes, I said Taylor made. Didn't I....???

 

PS....

Of course, you have to provide the seal.

 

I appreciate your offer, and I'd probably take it if you had actually reached Nirvana yourself at least once.

 

I'm serious about this, because people don't respect my authority, and it ends up it them disregarding my advice, and then live miserable lives after that.

 

 

 

>I'm pretty sure there are some folks over in (the tourist sections thereof) wudang mountain

>who would be more than happy to help you out... though it wouldn't be free, and you would

>have to get out of your chair . Silk pajamas extra.

 

That's over in China, and I don't know chinese, and I don't have a passport, or even money for a plane ticket or a travelling interpreter. I'd settle for a western temple. Still, isn't there a better way to "transmit" than simply staring at eachother?

Edited March 18, 2014 by Icedude

[joeblast]

I want a diploma, too - but only so I can buy acupuncture needles. Even though I bought them for years, Congress did me the favor of saying I might not know wtf I'm doing and might hurt someone, so here, let me protect you from yourself and prevent you from buying acupuncture needles. I'm sure the acupuncture lobby has only the best interests of all patients everywhere, of course...it is imperative that the rash of pneumothoraxes be stopped! :rolleys: a*holes

[BaguaKicksAss]

I want a diploma, too - but only so I can buy acupuncture needles. Even though I bought them for years, Congress did me the favor of saying I might not know wtf I'm doing and might hurt someone, so here, let me protect you from yourself and prevent you from buying acupuncture needles. I'm sure the acupuncture lobby has only the best interests of all patients everywhere, of course...it is imperative that the rash of pneumothoraxes be stopped! :rolleys: a*holes

 

Order online .

[thelerner]

Order online .

Order.. online..

That's actually alot of effort. typing, typing, credit cards.

Best to just draw one up yourself.

 

I'm very proud of my MOE diploma.

Once I got it. I could pretty much sit back

and rest on my laurels.

Knowing, at least in my own eyes

I was master of everything.

[joeblast]

Order online .

which is where I always purchased. but last time I went to order, everyone all of a sudden started looking for my....whatever the hell #, the "I know my shit #" courtesy of the acupuncture lobby...and no number, sorry, the feds will come after us, so we cant sell you needles.

 

I went to like 5 different sites and got the same shit from everyone.

Edited March 18, 2014 by joeblast

[joeblast]

Order.. online..

That's actually alot of effort. typing, typing, credit cards.

Best to just draw one up yourself.

 

I'm very proud of my MOE diploma.

Once I got it. I could pretty much sit back

and rest on my laurels.

Knowing, at least in my own eyes

I was master of everything.

most of the time, the jack of all trades card suffices

[liminal_luke]

I got acupuncture needles directly from a friendly acupuncturist once. Not sure if he was acting according to the "rules" or not, but he was happy to provide in any case. Perhaps there's someone you know, or even someone on here, who has access and is willing. Just a thought.

 

Liminal

[zerostao]

joeblast, set up a mail drop offshore. offshore never has to deal with these american 'stipulations'

i wish someone woulda started this thread when i was just beginning my college career, instead at the end of it, sigh

10$ geesh, that barely buys lunch on campus or a cup of coffee even

[Icedude]

Then what is the point of buddhism?

 

If you don't know when you've reached the end of your awakening, or even where it is, then you don't know how to get there, and if you don't know how to get there, then what are you doing with all this meditation, all this yoga, all this acupuncture, all these mantras and chakras?

 

If there is no goal, there is no way.

 

I'm trying to be polite here, but you probably understand what I'm implying here: If there's no way to prove Nirvana, then that makes you all fools.

[thetaoiseasy]

.

Edited March 24, 2014 by thetaoiseasy

[Icedude]

Do we know when we are hungry?

Do we know when we are thirsty?

Do we know when we are going to die?

 

Or do we need someone to scope our stomachs, and to measure our body fluid levels/electrolytes to determine hydration levels? Do we need medical transcriptionists to certify that we are officially "dead?"

 

Spiritually, you should know when you are not longer hungry and thirsty anymore.

You should also at least know when you stopped being a dead man walking.

No one can tell you the truth but yourself.

 

If you can say, "I am healthy. I have a peaceful mind. I have no more questions. I am content with my life. I have no fight within me," you have achieved something. You are already great.

 

Can you honestly tell yourself that, though?

 

 

 

If you don't know anyone who can tell you what being "hungry", or "thirsty", or "dying" is, but you're just told "Eat until you're not hungry, drink until you're not thirsty, and watch out for dying!", then you'd end up an obese nervous wreck who has to go to the doctor every once in awhile to see if you were "dead", not knowing what it was yourself.

 

...so yes, we need definitions, especially when there's so much conflicting information, conflicting definitions, and talk of different levels of conciousness.

 

I know that I'm not spiritually hungry or thirsty anymore, but so do atheists, and schizophrenics, and every headstrong man, and every redneck shooting salt after kids in order to get them off their lawn. They all agree that they don't need no meditation in their lives, and schizophrenics may even believe that they are Buddha and Jesus combined, if they get to "tell themselves the truth". That's not for them to decide, because they're not the ones that made up the definitions to begin with.

 

There was this guy named Siddhartha Gautama, who founded one of the largest religions on Earth, and for some reason, he wasn't just some guy sitting underneath a tree who just wasn't spiritually hungry or thirsty anymore (like his former believers believed when they abandoned him). He discovered a place called Nirvana, which is what all this buddhist hubbub is about. He told people that there is a way to escape suffering altogether.

 

The same goes for Dogen, and Lao Tzu: They didn't just say: "Ah, to heck with it." They reached awakening, at least if you are to believe the scriptures.

 

Now, you may feel more at peace when you're meditating, or doing yoga, or any other technique, but a moments peace is like a drop of water compared to the ocean of Nirvana. It comes and goes, and without a goal, meditation is just an addiction, no different than morphine. It may at best make you healthier, but it's not spiritual. It won't transcend you into a different state of consciousness permanently if you just stop when you feel calmer.

 

If it was just a matter of telling myself that I'm great, then there would be no need for teachers or temples or scriptures. That's basically just called "being confident". Compare that to all these weird things that people experience when they meditate, and they say that they *still* haven't reached Nirvana. Reaching Nirvana means feeling attachments fall away, leaving you limitless. People describe Nirvana in many different ways, and yet there is only one state that Buddha himself defined as Nirvana.

Edited March 18, 2014 by Icedude

[thetaoiseasy]

.

Edited March 24, 2014 by thetaoiseasy

[Icedude]

You said,

 

"I know that I'm not spiritually hungry or thirsty anymore."

 

Look at that huge paragraph you just typed. Really?

 

I still haven't preached a fraction of the years that Buddha preached. For Buddha, reaching Nirvana meant work. This is also why I said that I'm typing *from* Nirvana, and not *in* Nirvana.

 

I totally get people who are too lazy to read, too lazy to write, too lazy to do anything, too lazy to fuzz over anything, and too lazy to even feel any shame over being lazy. ...but even laziness won't give you peace of mind in the end.

[thetaoiseasy]

.

Edited March 24, 2014 by thetaoiseasy

[Ya Mu]

I was watching the movie Zen last week, and saw that Dogen was given a diploma when it said he had reached Nirvana.

I want a diploma too!

Where do I get one?

What hoops would I have to jump through to get one?

 

I'm expecting lots of clever answers below, about how people don't crave materialistic diplomas in Nirvana, or that I can make one myself.

 

It's like this: If you learn all the skills needed to be a neurosurgeon, you can go around telling people that you're a neurosurgeon all you want, but nobody will hire you until you get credentials. If you tell people that you're a neurosurgeon without credentials, people will simply think you're a loon. ...and maybe you are a loon too, but you would have no way of telling without credentials proving it to yourself too.

 

I tried taking internet quizes too, but while there are millions of internet quizes, I only found two pretty mediocre ones. (It said I'm a "bodhicitta", because the test maxed out at that result.)

 

Preferably I'd like to prove myself for free, without even getting out of my chair, if that's possible. (Yes, that makes me sound like an overweight American.)

"It's like this: If you learn all the skills needed to be a neurosurgeon, you can go around telling people that you're a neurosurgeon all you want, but nobody will hire you until you get credentials. If you tell people that you're a neurosurgeon without credentials, people will simply think you're a loon. ...and maybe you are a loon too, but you would have no way of telling without credentials proving it to yourself too."

And of course, if one learned all the skills to become a neurosurgeon then they would have gone to medical school, received a diploma, then spent several years in residency required to achieve those skills and would have the diploma. If they had of only learned a small part of it, then gone out to call themselves an accomplished practitioner, look at how much harm they could do. They would probably turn out to be idiots with an intense hatred of real neurosurgery due to their own failure to learn it, and have neurosurgeon idiot students, and they would probably post anonymously on a forum as someone else and insult all other real neurosurgeons. Personally I am glad that neurosurgeons need diplomas to practice and that actual study of real neurosurgery is required to receive the diploma.

[SonOfTheGods]

I hear you can attend a "get certified to be a ch-kung master" - on your lunch break.

 

You get a diploma, and for just $199.99 more- you can also get a cool, kabbalah red thread bracelet- but you must ACT NOW!

Edited March 18, 2014 by SonOfTheGods

[Icedude]

"It's like this: If you learn all the skills needed to be a neurosurgeon, you can go around telling people that you're a neurosurgeon all you want, but nobody will hire you until you get credentials. If you tell people that you're a neurosurgeon without credentials, people will simply think you're a loon. ...and maybe you are a loon too, but you would have no way of telling without credentials proving it to yourself too."

And of course, if one learned all the skills to become a neurosurgeon then they would have gone to medical school, received a diploma, then spent several years in residency required to achieve those skills and would have the diploma. If they had of only learned a small part of it, then gone out to call themselves an accomplished practitioner, look at how much harm they could do. They would probably turn out to be idiots with an intense hatred of real neurosurgery due to their own failure to learn it, and have neurosurgeon idiot students, and they would probably post anonymously on a forum as someone else and insult all other real neurosurgeons. Personally I am glad that neurosurgeons need diplomas to practice and that actual study of real neurosurgery is required to receive the diploma.

 

I'm speaking of learning all the skills outside school. ...by experimenting on cats. ...and the occational dog.

There's probably sufficient material on how to be a neurosurgeon floating around on the internet, so you can learn it all without taking a single actual lesson, and feel like you've mastered it. (This type of buddha is apparently called samyaksambuddha.) However, without taking a single test, you will never prove to yourself or others, that you meet the defined requirements to be acknowledged as an official neurosurgeon. ...so you can skip lessons all you want, but there needs to be a test. At least in my country you can schedule tests without having to attend classes. That's basically how universities work here.

 

There is of course proof that reaching buddhahood can be done without taking lessons: Siddhartha Gautama for one.

 

 

 

>I hear you can attend a "get certified to be a ch-kung master" - on your lunch break.

>

>You get a diploma, and for just $199.99 more- you can also get a cool, kabbalah red thread

>bracelet- but you must ACT NOW!

 

I of course don't want just *a* diploma. It needs to be official and certified and genuine and stuff. The whole idea is to get approved and validated.

Edited March 18, 2014 by Icedude