I want a diploma.

[ChiDragon]

 

1. often Nirvana

a. Buddhism The ineffable ultimate in which one has attained disinterested wisdom and compassion.

b. Hinduism Emancipation from ignorance and the extinction of all attachment.
2. An ideal condition of rest, harmony, stability, or joy.

1. (Buddhism) Buddhism Hinduism final release from the cycle of reincarnation attained by extinction of all desires and individual existence, culminating (in Buddhism) in absolute blessedness, or (in Hinduism) in absorption into Brahman1. (Buddhism) Buddhism Hinduism final release from the cycle of reincarnation attained by extinction of all desires and individual existence, culminating (in Buddhism) in absolute blessedness, or (in Hinduism) in absorption into Brahman

 

1. (often cap.) (in Buddhism) the final release from the cycle of reincarnations as a result of the extinction of individual passion, hatred, and delusion.

2. (often cap.) (in Hinduism) salvation through the union of Atman with Brahma.

3. a place or state characterized by freedom from pain and worry.

 

If you have reached the state of Nirvana, then why do you still need a diploma.....??? Your diploma is within your heart, isn't that what Buddhism is all about....???

Ref: Nirvana

 

 

 

[Icedude]

If you have reached the state of Nirvana, then why do you still need a diploma.....??? Your diploma is within your heart, isn't that what Buddhism is all about....???

 

Ref: Nirvana

 

 

Imagine my ex and the Dalai Lama walking down the street in a relationship.

The Dalai Lama wears normal clothes, else people would laugh at him, and probably incarcerate him.

Officially, he is nothing more than her "muppet".

They never speak of deep things or even emotions. She just prefers to watch TV.

Her life is filled with hate and fear and misery and an endless chase after meaningless things.

Occationally the Dalai Lama tries to convey some sort of wisdom that he thinks is suitable for her, but she dismisses it as "rubbish talk" before she even considers it.

One day she has a random emotional breakdown for little to no reason. She cries and she feels extremely ashamed and somehow she decides it's his fault, as he's talking to her at the time. The stupid useless muppet is thrown out, and is told to never even contact her again. She decides to live a life in complete misery instead.

The Dalai Lama thinks back to the moment when he actually admitted to her that he was a zen master. The reply was "In what game?".

 

This is why I need a diploma: So that people can take me seriously enough to listen to me.

[BaguaKicksAss]

which is where I always purchased. but last time I went to order, everyone all of a sudden started looking for my....whatever the hell #, the "I know my shit #" courtesy of the acupuncture lobby...and no number, sorry, the feds will come after us, so we cant sell you needles.

 

I went to like 5 different sites and got the same shit from everyone.

 

Ebay.com or alibaba.com . The asian sellers never ask for any diplomas. Speaking of China; you can buy some very nice kung fu diplomas over there!!!

[BaguaKicksAss]

If you don't know anyone who can tell you what being "hungry", or "thirsty", or "dying" is, but you're just told "Eat until you're not hungry, drink until you're not thirsty, and watch out for dying!", then you'd end up an obese nervous wreck who has to go to the doctor every once in awhile to see if you were "dead", not knowing what it was yourself.

 

...so yes, we need definitions, especially when there's so much conflicting information, conflicting definitions, and talk of different levels of conciousness.

 

I know that I'm not spiritually hungry or thirsty anymore, but so do atheists, and schizophrenics, and every headstrong man, and every redneck shooting salt after kids in order to get them off their lawn. They all agree that they don't need no meditation in their lives, and schizophrenics may even believe that they are Buddha and Jesus combined, if they get to "tell themselves the truth". That's not for them to decide, because they're not the ones that made up the definitions to begin with.

 

There was this guy named Siddhartha Gautama, who founded one of the largest religions on Earth, and for some reason, he wasn't just some guy sitting underneath a tree who just wasn't spiritually hungry or thirsty anymore (like his former believers believed when they abandoned him). He discovered a place called Nirvana, which is what all this buddhist hubbub is about. He told people that there is a way to escape suffering altogether.

 

The same goes for Dogen, and Lao Tzu: They didn't just say: "Ah, to heck with it." They reached awakening, at least if you are to believe the scriptures.

 

Now, you may feel more at peace when you're meditating, or doing yoga, or any other technique, but a moments peace is like a drop of water compared to the ocean of Nirvana. It comes and goes, and without a goal, meditation is just an addiction, no different than morphine. It may at best make you healthier, but it's not spiritual. It won't transcend you into a different state of consciousness permanently if you just stop when you feel calmer.

 

If it was just a matter of telling myself that I'm great, then there would be no need for teachers or temples or scriptures. That's basically just called "being confident". Compare that to all these weird things that people experience when they meditate, and they say that they *still* haven't reached Nirvana. Reaching Nirvana means feeling attachments fall away, leaving you limitless. People describe Nirvana in many different ways, and yet there is only one state that Buddha himself defined as Nirvana.

 

That's what teachers are for to help with, to either help you see the signposts and know you have progressed, or tell you you have your head up your behind in thinking you have already "made it". They have been there done that sort of thing.

[BaguaKicksAss]

How about a lightly trolling forums diploma?

[Icedude]

That's what teachers are for to help with, to either help you see the signposts and know you have progressed, or tell you you have your head up your behind in thinking you have already "made it". They have been there done that sort of thing.

 

Exactly.

 

 

 

> How about a lightly trolling forums diploma?

 

I bet if I had a diploma, you wouldn't think me a troll.

Edited March 18, 2014 by Icedude

[BaguaKicksAss]

Exactly.

 

 

 

> How about a lightly trolling forums diploma?

 

I bet if I had a diploma, you wouldn't think me a troll.

 

No, no, no, only *lightly* trolling, nowhere near a full blown troll at all, more just having some fun . And uhm, the rest of the board might see things differently if you had a diploma, but me personally, I see no difference in a diploma or not in spiritual matters. The folks who actually give them out for such things as enlightenment and spiritual attainment are full of crap just trying to make money on watered down teachings. *cough* weekend workshops *cough*.

[Rara]

This is why I need a diploma: So that people can take me seriously enough to listen to me.

 

You're actually serious?

 

A sage needs no recognition.

[ChiDragon]

Imagine my ex and the Dalai Lama walking down the street in a relationship.

The Dalai Lama wears normal clothes, else people would laugh at him, and probably incarcerate him.

Officially, he is nothing more than her "muppet".

They never speak of deep things or even emotions. She just prefers to watch TV.

Her life is filled with hate and fear and misery and an endless chase after meaningless things.

Occationally the Dalai Lama tries to convey some sort of wisdom that he thinks is suitable for her, but she dismisses it as "rubbish talk" before she even considers it.

One day she has a random emotional breakdown for little to no reason. She cries and she feels extremely ashamed and somehow she decides it's his fault, as he's talking to her at the time. The stupid useless muppet is thrown out, and is told to never even contact her again. She decides to live a life in complete misery instead.

The Dalai Lama thinks back to the moment when he actually admitted to her that he was a zen master. The reply was "In what game?".

 

This is why I need a diploma: So that people can take me seriously enough to listen to me.

 

With your present state of Nirvana, it seems it will take awhile for you to get a diploma for this "game". Unfortunately, I guess you didn't catch the real meaning of the definition for Nirvana yet.

Edited March 18, 2014 by ChiDragon

[BaguaKicksAss]

Here you go Icedude .

 

[Icedude]

You're actually serious?

 

A sage needs no recognition.

 

Yes, I'm actually serious. Think is something I've been thinking about for a few months. Sure, there is "Dharma transmissions", but those seem to be from teacher to student. I guess I'm out of luck.

 

Didn't my example show that a sage *does* need recognition?

If nobody listens, then sure he's a sage, but he's no use to anyone. What sort of a bodhisattva would even the Dalai Lama be, if nobody listened to him and everybody thought he was just a loon?

[Apech]

Here you go Icedude .

 

 

diploma-generator.php.jpg

 

 

Envy!!!!!! I want one!!!!!

[Aetherous]

I want a diploma, too - but only so I can buy acupuncture needles. Even though I bought them for years, Congress did me the favor of saying I might not know wtf I'm doing and might hurt someone, so here, let me protect you from yourself and prevent you from buying acupuncture needles. I'm sure the acupuncture lobby has only the best interests of all patients everywhere, of course...it is imperative that the rash of pneumothoraxes be stopped! :rolleys: a*holes

 

And somehow, kitchen knives are still totally legal.

[Aetherous]

Then what is the point of buddhism?

 

If you don't know when you've reached the end of your awakening, or even where it is, then you don't know how to get there, and if you don't know how to get there, then what are you doing with all this meditation, all this yoga, all this acupuncture, all these mantras and chakras?

 

If there is no goal, there is no way.

 

I'm trying to be polite here, but you probably understand what I'm implying here: If there's no way to prove Nirvana, then that makes you all fools.

 

Well you saw it in the movie. He got recognized by someone who could recognize it. Honestly, the first step is to find a teacher that seems legitimate. The second step is to strive to be the best student you can be.

 

If that doesn't get you a diploma, you can at least say you trained for years with them. The work you put in will be recognized. The work you don't put in will be recognized as well, and no one will think anything of you because of that. Strive.

[Icedude]

With your present state of Nirvana, it seems it will take awhile for you to get a diploma for this "game". I guess you didn't get the real meaning of the definition for Nirvana.

 

Exactly: I don't get the real meaning of the definition for Nirvana.

Sure, it's described, but people expect big things to happen when you reach Nirvana, and I don't see myself glowing like a 20 foot lightbulb like the Mahayanas think I should be. (Okay, one person actually did, but I'm certain she's schizophrenic. She was going to kill me with a knife, saw my light, and apparently she converted to buddhism soon after, and became a temple nun. Yes, seriously. ...but this was before I was fully enlightened, so we didn't talk anything about buddhism or such things.) The thought of going around glowing with holy light, would be pretty creepy, and the mutant tiger thing would probably be even creepier.

 

 

Here you go Icedude .

diploma-generator.php.jpg

 

Thank you so much!

If only it was genuine too.

[Icedude]

 

Well you saw it in the movie. He got recognized by someone who could recognize it. Honestly, the first step is to find a teacher that seems legitimate. The second step is to strive to be the best student you can be.

 

If that doesn't get you a diploma, you can at least say you trained for years with them. The work you put in will be recognized. The work you don't put in will be recognized as well, and no one will think anything of you because of that. Strive.

 

So it seems that I need to actually go to a temple and find a teacher. It feels like a waste of time, but if that's what I must do, then that's what I must do.

[BaguaKicksAss]

 

Envy!!!!!! I want one!!!!!

 

Here you go .

 

[BaguaKicksAss]

Exactly: I don't get the real meaning of the definition for Nirvana.

Sure, it's described, but people expect big things to happen when you reach Nirvana, and I don't see myself glowing like a 20 foot lightbulb like the Mahayanas think I should be. (Okay, one person actually did, but I'm certain she's schizophrenic. She was going to kill me with a knife, saw my light, and apparently she converted to buddhism soon after, and became a temple nun. Yes, seriously. ...but this was before I was fully enlightened, so we didn't talk anything about buddhism or such things.) The thought of going around glowing with holy light, would be pretty creepy, and the mutant tiger thing would probably be even creepier.

 

 

 

Thank you so much!

If only it was genuine too.

 

It's not about diplomas, folks on spiritual paths look for something much different than pieces of paper. Instead we look for how the person leads their life, how they act, the sense of energy and peace around them, the feeling of a sort of power, as well as word of mouth from others who have trained with said person. With the Dalai Lama, I think folks are reincarnated into that position, and those who can actually see/know such things help figure that out. Also keep in mind that the whole striving for recognition from others only distracts us from our path. To be honest, the only thing certificates are good for is if you are performing healing on others, or you are trying to make money from the path.

 

I also practice a non-Taoist path, and have been at it awhile. When people come to train with me it is due to word of mouth, reading some articles I have written, or just the feeling that I know something they also need to know. If someone asked if I had a certificate I would either tell them where to shove said question, or I would get out a scrap piece of paper and write one up real quick .

 

Sometimes folks will have an official lineage certificate if they are a disciple of some path; in this case their teacher will prepare this for them. While these are quite good and helpful to show a lineage and perhaps that someone is valid, there are far more fake certificates or bought ones out there than there are real ones. I could get myself a few within a month if I had the right amount of money and knew which teachers felt money was more important than ethics. There are several martial arts teachers locally who have such "certificates".

[Green Tiger]

I want a diploma, too - but only so I can buy acupuncture needles. Even though I bought them for years, Congress did me the favor of saying I might not know wtf I'm doing and might hurt someone, so here, let me protect you from yourself and prevent you from buying acupuncture needles. I'm sure the acupuncture lobby has only the best interests of all patients everywhere, of course...it is imperative that the rash of pneumothoraxes be stopped! :rolleys: a*holes

 

There's a big push (and push-back) to require acupuncturists to get more training. Like . . . PhD-level training.

 

I'm not sure how I feel about that. If they also made it a requirement that all health insurance plans would have to cover it, I might be on board.

[zerostao]

bka, you're kinda like the wizard of oz(aint ya) eh?!

[Apech]

Here you go .

 

diploma-generator.php.jpg

 

 

I feel there's a lot of love on this thread.

[Icedude]

It's not about diplomas, folks on spiritual paths look for something much different than pieces of paper. Instead we look for how the person leads their life, how they act, the sense of energy and peace around them, the feeling of a sort of power, as well as word of mouth from others who have trained with said person. With the Dalai Lama, I think folks are reincarnated into that position, and those who can actually see/know such things help figure that out. Also keep in mind that the whole striving for recognition from others only distracts us from our path. To be honest, the only thing certificates are good for is if you are performing healing on others, or you are trying to make money from the path.

 

I also practice a non-Taoist path, and have been at it awhile. When people come to train with me it is due to word of mouth, reading some articles I have written, or just the feeling that I know something they also need to know. If someone asked if I had a certificate I would either tell them where to shove said question, or I would get out a scrap piece of paper and write one up real quick .

 

Sometimes folks will have an official lineage certificate if they are a disciple of some path; in this case their teacher will prepare this for them. While these are quite good and helpful to show a lineage and perhaps that someone is valid, there are far more fake certificates or bought ones out there than there are real ones. I could get myself a few within a month if I had the right amount of money and knew which teachers felt money was more important than ethics. There are several martial arts teachers locally who have such "certificates".

 

I heard that some group of people came to determine whether or not Dharma Sangha was a buddha or not, and they concluded that he didn't have the same "Buddha energies". Also, when people go out to look for the next incarnation of the Dalai Lama, they are apparently testing lots of children in different households. ...so somewhere there is a test that strangers can undertake, that doesn't require years of studies under a teacher.

 

When you say "Instead we look for how the person leads their life, how they act, the sense of energy and peace around them, the feeling of a sort of power, as well as word of mouth from others who have trained with said person." then that sounds exactly like what I'm looking to have tested. Hopefully you can test enough over the internet, because I guess we're not exactly neighbors.

 

 

>Also keep in mind that the whole striving for recognition from others only distracts us from our path. To be honest, the only thing certificates are good for is if you are performing healing on others, or you are trying to make money from the path.

 

I already explained why I want recognition: So that people will actually listen to me. There are people so caught up in Dukkha, that they can only see material things. ...so I need a material thing as a means of communication.

 

It's great that you know people who say good things about you. Unfortunately, if you become enlightened enough, you tend to drift away from "the common tounge", and end up being pretty strange when people get to know you. It sort of hinders "hanging out" with people in a social way, at least outside of India.

I guess I can start writing articles on the net.

Still, I'm not sure whether I'd want to attract a whole following of people that come to my house, and peek in through my windows when I'm naked.

 

Yes, there are probably a lot of fake certificates, but I'm not looking for a fake certificate. Sure, it would be something to show, but I wouldn't be able to fully know that I earned it.

 

 

 

Here you go .

 

diploma-generator.php.jpg

 

"The State of China in The United States of America"

[BaguaKicksAss]

I heard that some group of people came to determine whether or not Dharma Sangha was a buddha or not, and they concluded that he didn't have the same "Buddha energies". Also, when people go out to look for the next incarnation of the Dalai Lama, they are apparently testing lots of children in different households. ...so somewhere there is a test that strangers can undertake, that doesn't require years of studies under a teacher.

 

When you say "Instead we look for how the person leads their life, how they act, the sense of energy and peace around them, the feeling of a sort of power, as well as word of mouth from others who have trained with said person." then that sounds exactly like what I'm looking to have tested. Hopefully you can test enough over the internet, because I guess we're not exactly neighbors.

 

 

>Also keep in mind that the whole striving for recognition from others only distracts us from our path. To be honest, the only thing certificates are good for is if you are performing healing on others, or you are trying to make money from the path.

 

I already explained why I want recognition: So that people will actually listen to me. There are people so caught up in Dukkha, that they can only see material things. ...so I need a material thing as a means of communication.

 

It's great that you know people who say good things about you. Unfortunately, if you become enlightened enough, you tend to drift away from "the common tounge", and end up being pretty strange when people get to know you. It sort of hinders "hanging out" with people in a social way, at least outside of India.

I guess I can start writing articles on the net.

Still, I'm not sure whether I'd want to attract a whole following of people that come to my house, and peek in through my windows when I'm naked.

 

Yes, there are probably a lot of fake certificates, but I'm not looking for a fake certificate. Sure, it would be something to show, but I wouldn't be able to fully know that I earned it.

 

 

 

 

"The State of China in The United States of America"

 

A few things...

 

The most advanced and experienced practitioners I have ever met (and very likely will ever meet) in spirituality, magic, qigong and martial arts ALL were completely unknown, had no diplomas whatsoever, and most people have never heard of them!

 

The whole difficult to hang out with people thing.... well since we are using me as an example lol, I am very extremely fortunate in that ALL the people I know are spiritual practitioners. This was partially purposeful and partially that folks not on similar paths as myself and I just don't mesh or connect. Also when I meet people and think perhaps they are not on a similar path, once we get to talking, we find out that each other is. Practitioners are just drawn to one another.

 

For that sort of test, I guess you could ask any decent level practitioner (try for over 20 years in, 40 is better, to make sure their own personal biases don't get in the way), and ask them "soooo how do you think I'm doing on the whole enlightenment thing? Have I reached nirvana yet?" Though most would look at you like you have been smoking some low grade something or another for asking .

 

Hmmmm, that whole wanting others to listen to you, and pass along some super amazing teachings to them thing is really overrated . I am a bit of a cynic I'll admit, but unfortunately what modern society looks for is physical appearance, fancy posters and websites, and well worded promo ads... well OK maybe diplomas too, but I've not heard of any for enlightenment or nirvana before. Though really, would you want acolytes who are naive enough to fall for the whole diploma thing?

 

I'm curious now why you want this? Because you love teaching? So you can feel important? So you can increase your self worth? So you can make some extra money from it? So you actually have respect from your fellow human beings? Have you found that in general people don't listen to you? It is also a certain air about them that teachers and leaders have that makes people want to follow them. Though at the same time humbleness is what draws people to most teachers.

 

Personally I feel that people who are impressed with me due to external fancy stuff like that are not worth my time (did I mention cynical? Did I also mention still working on stuff? lol)

 

One thing I have found is that the people who have told me they are enlightened were the least enlightened of folks I have met lol, no idea if this is always the case, but amongst magicians it sure seems to be lol. I think even the Dalai Lama when asked if he is enlightened laughed . Also I think once we are enlightened we start to notice we can do some neat stuff....like... not think all the time, manifest stuff, not be 100% physical all the time, or whatever other odd and interesting things. Though I'm only talking about this from things I have seen and noticed and from an outside (tourist) perspective. (personally enlightenment is not on my to do list, but I do see it is a very good goal for other people as it seems to improve people).

 

PS I'm not enlightened, and any possible times of nirvana were short lived, I'm just using myself as an example because people do try to ask me to teach them stuff, and I have taught lots of people, and I know and have spent time around a lot of spiritual people, some of which I personally feel have made it very far along the path. I am also in teaching retirement and quite like it this way .

[joeblast]

There's a big push (and push-back) to require acupuncturists to get more training. Like . . . PhD-level training.

 

I'm not sure how I feel about that. If they also made it a requirement that all health insurance plans would have to cover it, I might be on board.

whereas a veritable "associate's degree" presently has no difference in weight to a master of many years...

 

I think it is stupid to have the law require such levels of training and certification, with the associated quasi college level costs of it....it is just contributing to the higher education racket going on in this country...

 

but hey, when you're invested in the racket, I guess you look to do things to keep the racket going...

[thamosh]

Wanting people to listen to you?

 

Thats just wrong in general its not you that they are listening to its the truth that comes thru you that they will listen to.

 

But enlightenment is paradoxial but the truth of it isnt.

 

Meaning that if you did bump into someone and the tao spoke thru you to tell them something. That person would only remember part of what you said at that time which they felt was relevant to them at that time.

 

Wise words dont always come from wise people.....it is the spirit of truth that is conveyed in the message.

 

Whether its the sound of a bird gong or just someone saying hello to you that can light up your day or make you reflect on things.

 

Its the tao reaching out to us.

 

We only act in accordance with the spirit and energy of the tao.