I want a diploma.

[Apech]

We're very sorry, but after much consideration your application for a diploma has been declined. Please accept this new edition of the Tao Te Ching with our apologies.

 

 

What you are giving away telephone directories.

[Icedude]

Personally, I don't focus much energy on the TTC because I consider it to be talking about something which can and should be experienced. I find some of the imagery very useful, however, and I have read several interpretations -- and read it more than a few times over the last thirty years or so.

 

 

Exactly: The TTC is about something. Well, "everything", but we get what we're saying.

 

 

 

The statement that "basically the pages all say the same thing in different wording to me" reflects more on you than on the book, in my opinion, and isn't something I would consider to be a bragging point.

 

I'm too enlightened to brag.

 

 

My two points with which you have taken exception come from your own post -- you referred to the TTC as "...essentially, to me, about a guy very slowly - veeery slooowly - going to the bathroom" and in the next sentence you spoke about how you like to solve koans (a detail you have mentioned more than once). I assumed (apparently falsely) that "a guy" would be "human" and that you actually had read said koans -- I didn't mention "books."

 

I just took "going to the bathroom" as an example. ...as in "doing the dishes", or "breathing". A common thing you do every day.

Of course I've read said koans - I don't get what you mean now.

 

 

You are mistaken in your evaluation of the insult, though. The insult comes from your phraseology rather than from the target of your sniping taking personal your identification of an "objective truth." My post was somewhat tongue-in-cheek but I added to it while you were typing your response. Rather than asking you to scroll up and read it, I'll repeat it here:

 

Or, you could simply have said "I don't put the same level of importance on the TTC that you do."

 

I don't see any difference between that and "I'm sorry if it makes you appear stupid." in terms of level of offensive. ...but maybe it's because "appear" is relative to me. I meant "appear to yourself", not "appear to me". Does that clear things up?

 

Edit:

It's exactly like saying "Please don't take this the wrong way.", and I get warned for saying "the wrong way".

Edited March 24, 2014 by Icedude

[zerostao]

i dont know anything about koans but from what i have gathered from icedude is they must be a type of word play puzzle, and the words must be used in a very literal sense. he gets that a diploma is also a form of communication but he fails to see how pictures, videos, songs or other symbollism is of any communicative use.(words are themselves symbols, but i digress)

i will gather that english is not icedude's primary language and this is why he is rudimentary with his language and puzzle solving skills or lack of ability to recognize abstract thoughts/concepts. or else he is maybe 14 or 15 and needs further education and perhaps a high school diploma is what he is after. i failed myself by giving icedude credit for having a sense of humor, bad misread on my part. i also realize that he has no understanding of semiotics or interpersonal communications.

i will accept that he can only be rude and resort to insults when challeged at the basic level of debative discourse and he becomes the only member here of thousands i have encountered that i find such value in his posting that he makes my ignore list(a list of 1)

can someone tell me where to find the ignore button? ive never needed it b4

[Icedude]

What you are giving away telephone directories.

 

There's just no end to the comedy.

Edited March 24, 2014 by Icedude

[Icedude]

i dont know anything about koans but from what i have gathered from icedude is they must be a type of word play puzzle, and the words must be used in a very literal sense. he gets that a diploma is also a form of communication but he fails to see how pictures, videos, songs or other symbollism is of any communicativeuse.(words are themselves symbols, but i digress)

i will gather that english is not icedude's primary language and this is why he is rudimentary with his language and puzzle solving skills or lack of ability to recognize abstract thoughts/concepts. or else he is maybe 14 or 15 and needs further education and perhaps a high school diploma is what he is after. i failed myself by giving icedude credit for having a sense of humor, bad misread on my part. i also realize that he has no understanding of semiotics or interpersonal communications.

i will accept that he can only be rude and resort to insults when challeged at the basic level of debative discourse and he becomes the only member here of thousands i have encountered that i find such value in his posting that he makes my ignore list(a list of 1)

can someone tell me where to find the ignore button? ive never needed it b4

 

Keep searching. Wouldn't want you to learn something.

[Brian]

<snip>

can someone tell me where to find the ignore button? ive never needed it b4

Click the little down-arrow next to your screen-name in the upper right-hand corner of the browser window and select "Manage Ignore Prefs"

[Brian]

 

Keep searching. Wouldn't want you to learn something.

I get the feeling we've met somewhere before...

[Icedude]

I get the feeling we've met somewhere before...

 

Cool.

[Nungali]

Do you? ...because to me that sounds like yet another lame joke, put down in an extremely convoluted and insincere way: "Have you possibly maybe considered that you're psychotic? ...not that I'm saying that or anything." That's not testing me. That's you choosing to misinterpret me, thinking that as I want validation, all you need is to lie about offering it, and you can make a fool out of me. You don't even seem to believe in enlightenment, as you reckon monks wouldn't take askers seriously. ...so you come across as an atheist heckler.

 

If you want an honest answer about what awakened means, you can check dictionaries. "Awakened" is a word that fits criteria. I can tell you that I'm a good chef, because maybe I'm that too, but it's useless unless it fits the criteria. Maybe all awakened people are good chefs too, but I wouldn't know, as I haven't read about that part yet. I only know that what I've read so far fits.

 

I can read about the big bang, and understand the big bang, but that doesn't make me the big bang. However, if I'm happy, and I read about happiness, I understand that I'm happy, and that makes me realize that I was happy all along. ...or maybe I read about happiness and realize that I'm not happy. ...or maybe I read about happiness and that makes me happy while I'm reading it, or able to be happy later. Some people become awakened, and some people are already.

 

It's pointless for you to try to decide if another person would let me in or not, because you're not that person. I very much doubt that these "Buddha energies", whatever they are, can be sensed through the internet. You're not even able to detect if I'm smiling or picking my nose right now, so don't act like you are.

 

According to your culture, Buddha is unemployed. You'd put a McDonalds cap on him, take him to McDonalds, and he'd be a slow and weird cachier. That's the result of people "knocking people down a peg or two".

 

 

 

 

I feel like I'd be here giving you private lectures all day. You write far too many words.

 

 

 

 

The need for humor in this case, is the need to degrade me for being larger than you. It's disbelief. It's disrespect. It's you making clowns out of yourselves, and at this point, after 14 pages, I'm fed up with clowns. How much unbelief in the religion that you claim to have, can you guys possibly have?

 

 

Now you are avoiding the issue and getting yourself agro and taking the tac that I MUST BE attacking you - no matter how clear I have tried to make that. This is a 'safer approach' for you, as you feel you wont have to deal with any issues that arise.

 

Whatever ... carry on, its obviously all our fault and our ( now I am being sarcastic using the word 'our' as you projected my outlook about you onto everyone else here) lack of .... whatever is needed to agree with you.

 

I bet there is a whole lot of stuff you could do .... 'if only .... '

[Nungali]

On the contrary: I've described enlightenment as best as I can in other threads.

If you want answers to actual questions, ask me.

 

I did ... but you didnt answer them, just got defensive and started assuming all sorts of things about me (like atheism) and assuming everyone here thought like me and we mock you because we are jealous of your superiority (to the 'common man' )

Edited March 24, 2014 by Nungali

[Icedude]

I did ... but you didnt answer them, just got defensive and started assuming all sorts of things about me (like atheism) and assuming everyone here thought like me and we mock you because we are jealous of your superiority (to the 'common man' )

 

I'll try as best as I can to describe it to you, but I don't think it will be enough:

I dissolved my subjective concepts, or had them dissolved for me, and as they dissolved into nothing but awareness, my awareness came to halt in the place that you call Nirvana. From there I exited by rebuilding myself: By stacking subjective concepts upon subjective concepts, fully knowing that I can collapse them back into Nirvana at any time.

 

If I visualize it symbolically, which probably makes even less sense, it's like hanging up side down from the sky, constructed of building blocks that you can take apart.

Edited March 24, 2014 by Icedude

[Nungali]

"an" what? An ambulance? An orange?

 

 

 

No, there wouldn't, because there's a rule that says something like "employees are not supposed to talk to customers" or something like that.

 

No ... I think thats a bus driver.

 

...and if there wasn't, one would shortly be invented in order to serve more burgers and put out more fires.

 

.... dang ! How am I going to 'have a nice day' if they wont be allowed to tell me to do that anymore ?

[Icedude]

No ... I think thats a bus driver.

 

 

.... dang ! How am I going to 'have a nice day' if they wont be allowed to tell me to do that anymore ?

 

I think you get what I'm trying to say here, regardless. Crucifying Jesus was "knocking him down a peg or two". I can manage my self-doubt fine without "help". It's not me being crazy. It's you wanting to think that I am.

[Apech]

There's just no end to the comedy.

 

Unfortunately correct.

[Nungali]

Look, it's great that you read lots of books and learn lots of things, that's really great, but some people don't need to do that. They already know that, or they've already learned that without reading.

 

 

[Icedude]

Unfortunately correct.

 

Well don't look at me. It's not like I'm tickling you.

 

 

YouTube link

 

It's like learning how to play a guitar, and then reading a book on how to play a guitar: The book is completely useless to you.

[Nungali]

It's exactly like saying "Please don't take this the wrong way.", and I get warned for saying "the wrong way".

And I am the guy that tries to cover up my insults am I ?

[Icedude]

And I am the guy that tries to cover up my insults am I ?

 

Yeah, pretty much.

I think the difference here, is that I'm not reporting you guys for ridiculing me, because I don't take offense if you guys make clowns out of yourselves. Yes, it's borderline spam as well, but I'll tolerate it for now.

[Nungali]

I'll try as best as I can to describe it to you, but I don't think it will be enough:

I dissolved my subjective concepts, or had them dissolved for me, and as they dissolved into nothing but awareness, my awareness came to halt in the place that you call Nirvana. From there I exited by rebuilding myself: By stacking subjective concepts upon subjective concepts, fully knowing that I can collapse them back into Nirvana at any time.

 

If I visualize it symbolically, which probably makes even less sense, it's like hanging up side down from the sky, constructed of building blocks that you can take apart.

 

No ... that makes MORE sense;

 

Except you are suspended against (not from) or amidst a construction of subjective building blocks within the sky. What you are suspended from and how you are suspended is quiet different.

 

[Apech]

Well don't look at me. It's not like I'm tickling you.

 

I enjoy what you write ... and I just join in in my own little way ... I find humour jolly and refreshing. Sorry if you don't like it. Not intended to offend in any way.

[Marblehead]

Yeah, stay true to your name. The dude who is ice cool. (Don't get yourself in trouble.)

Edited March 25, 2014 by Marblehead

[thelerner]

oh my.. Oh my god, has this thread really made it to the 18th page!

 

just wow..

what are philosophical implications of that?

Don't Answer! you'll only feed the beast.

[Nungali]

Well don't look at me. It's not like I'm tickling you.

 

 

 

It's like learning how to play a guitar, and then reading a book on how to play a guitar: The book is completely useless to you.

 

Jimi Hendrix ? But he could demonstrate his own particular 'natural skill' .... there is more required than being 'tricky in conversation' , although you aren't too good at that either.

[Marblehead]

Don't Answer! you'll only feed the beast.

I'm glad you said that and therefore I will hold my tongue.

[Apech]

Jimi Hendrix ? But he could demonstrate his own particular 'natural skill' .... there is more required than being 'tricky in conversation' , although you aren't too good at that either.

 

 

I for one find Icedude to be an excellent conversationalist, frankly expressing views not tricky at all. We need to be big enough to embrace views different to our own, don't we?