"Minor Death" in Longmen Pai

[Marks of Glory]

Chapter 4

p. 56

 

"in cultivation refinement to this point (the mysterious female aperture) Wang Liping also experiences minor death several times."

 

 

 

 

 

Doe anyone know what is meant by "minor death" ?

 

 

[SaiyaMan]

I think it means you die for a moment, where your heart stops and lips turn blue, and then return. If I remember correctly, this also happens in XYP, I don't remember if its more than once though.

[Jox]

What is XYP?

[Moonbar]

.

[SaiyaMan]

Xiao Yao Pai - www.studytaoism.com

[Marblehead]

Well, I think death is a pretty major event. I recommend against doing it.

[thelerner]

I think the minor death runs through a couple of eastern energy art traditions. I think it was mentioned in Kunlun. A state where your meditating so deeply, you have a near death kind of experience, especially for people seeing your body. In some traditions its reported you have a choice to stay (dead) or go back.

[Aetherous]

Totally unofficial idea zone: I think the notion of vampires comes in part from these traditions where you have died and yet are still alive. There are differences between a ghost immortal (someone who has transmogrified through neigung or similar type methods, yet not in an ideal way, or in the true way of the immortals) and a spirit immortal (someone who did it right, and has virtue and is natural)...but not everyone recognizes these differences, so you have people walking around like the undead rather than living without death. Not all roads lead to Rome...some just lead to Naples and you get stuck there...and others might take an excursion through Naples on the way to Rome.

The book Opening the Dragon Gate describes a pretty amazing experience of Wang Liping's...what I recall is that he actually lived in a world of the afterlife with his ancestors for years, but then later was told he had to return to the real world. Once back, he had a hard time adjusting for a while.

[zerostao]

Well, I think death is a pretty major event. I recommend against doing it.

good luck with that

[Marblehead]

good luck with that

I will give it my best effort.

 

I think that this minor death thing is based on the concept of the warrior (and the Sage) as already having died, that is, left their previous life, and now there is no fear of death.

 

A person in the total state of "wu" may appear to be dead but that is something totally different.

Edited March 19, 2014 by Marblehead

[gendao]

I think the minor death runs through a couple of eastern energy art traditions. I think it was mentioned in Kunlun. A state where your meditating so deeply, you have a near death kind of experience, especially for people seeing your body. In some traditions its reported you have a choice to stay (dead) or go back.

In archetypal mythology, the "hero" must finally prove himself and lose his fear of death en route to conquer (transcend) the duality of life/death in this world (aka "immortality").

Resurrection Hero - The hero faces a final test where everything is at stake and he must use everything he has learned.

In his book, "The Writer's Journey: Mythic Structure," Christopher Vogler writes that for a story to feel complete, the reader needs to experience an additional moment of death and rebirth, subtly different from the ordeal.

This is the climax of the story, the last dangerous meeting with death. The hero must be cleansed from the journey before returning to the Ordinary World. The trick for the writer is to show how the hero’s behavior has changed, to demonstrate that the hero has been through a resurrection.

Resurrection: "The Hero faces the Resurrection, his most dangerous meeting with death. This final life-or-death Ordeal shows that the Hero has maintained and can apply all that he has brought back to the Ordinary World. This Ordeal and Resurrection can represent a "cleansing" or purification that must occur now that the Hero has emerged from the land of the dead. The Hero is reborn or transformed with the attributes of the Ordinary self in addition to the lessons and insights from the characters he has met along the road. The Resurrection may be a physical Ordeal, or final showdown between the Hero and the Shadow. This battle is for much more than the Hero's life. Other lives, or an entire world may be at stake and the Hero must now prove that he has achieved Heroic status and willingly accept his sacrifice for the benefit of the Ordinary World. Other Allies may come to the last minute rescue to lend assistance, but in the end the Hero must rise to the sacrifice at hand. He must deliver the blow that destroys the Death Star (Star Wars), or offer his hand and accept the "magic" elixir of love."

Even Christianity for instance, revolves around the belief that Jesus the Annointed resurrected from death by crucifixion.

In the Eastern "religions" though, the adepts are taught that they can actually possibly attain this themselves.

Edited March 18, 2014 by vortex

[joeblast]

cant seem to keep my awareness focused for an entire month straight with no breaks at all

[Marblehead]

cant seem to keep my awareness focused for an entire month straight with no breaks at all

Time to meditate?

[TheExaltedRonin]

Let's not stay on topic guys. Haha.

[Green Tiger]

I really like Marblehead and Vortex's metaphorical/allegorical take on this, but I suspect there is some sort of physical analog. Probably something like an OBE. Hard to say for sure though.

 

Might help if you provide some more context. Like, for instance, what book are you referencing? Is this from Opening the Dragon Gate?

 

Also, what is the 'mysterious female aperture?' Might want to start there.

[Marblehead]

I really like Marblehead and Vortex's metaphorical/allegorical take on this, but I suspect there is some sort of physical analog. Probably something like an OBE. Hard to say for sure though.

Thanks. I don't hold to the concept of OBE as it is generally understood. Just wanted to clarify that. It is my opinion that the state of total "wu" is a totally different animal.

[gendao]

I really like Marblehead and Vortex's metaphorical/allegorical take on this, but I suspect there is some sort of physical analog. Probably something like an OBE. Hard to say for sure though.

The archetypal "xiantian" mythology does not preclude any "houtian" physical manifestation of it. In fact, the mythology is essentially the program that codes our manifest experience.

Edited March 20, 2014 by vortex

[damdao]

I think it means you die for a moment, where your heart stops and lips turn blue, and then return. If I remember correctly, this also happens in XYP, I don't remember if its more than once though.

And is the mechanism similar to that of Longmenpai?

[SaiyaMan]

And is the mechanism similar to that of Longmenpai?

 

I can't comment on the mechanisms as I don't know what they are. All I know is that when cultivating in XYP, you eventually come to a point where you die for a moment and return to normal, and it is an event to expect when progressing. Sadly I don't know how or why it happens, it just does . Effilang could probably provide you with an answer.

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/32089-hou-tian-vs-xian-tian-xiao-yao-pai/

[Aeran]

I've seen various western sources (Bardon being one of them - which is particularly interesting given the strong eastern element to his practices)) describe states where the physical body becomes effectively 'dead' (breath slows to the point of almost ceasing entirely, it becomes cold, stiff, etc) as a result of the almost complete detachment of the mental and astral bodies (either for the purpose of travel, or to reach meditative states which can't be achieved while still within the physical body). Perhaps what is being described in the OP is something similar?

[joeblast]

And is the mechanism similar to that of Longmenpai?

 

"Man has only two arms and two legs..."

 

"all the paths up the mountain may have a different aspects of the trail, but at the peak..."

[ChiDragon]

Doe anyone know what is meant by "minor death" ?

 

This something I had read in some fictional Chinese Kung Fu stories. "Minor death" is when the practitioner at the point almost reached to the highest realm will be passed out. If he come back from the transient, he will survive and had reached the highest realm. Otherwise, he won't come back at all and died instead.

[Marks of Glory]

I really like Marblehead and Vortex's metaphorical/allegorical take on this, but I suspect there is some sort of physical analog. Probably something like an OBE. Hard to say for sure though.

 

Might help if you provide some more context. Like, for instance, what book are you referencing? Is this from Opening the Dragon Gate?

 

Also, what is the 'mysterious female aperture?' Might want to start there.

 

 

The book I read is "Opening the dragon gate" as mentioned in my post.

 

the 'mysterious female aperture' is mentioned in the tao teh ching. On Long Men Pai it is said that this "aperture" is found half way between the Heart (representing Heaven here) and the Navel / Kidneys (Representing Earth).

 

i.e. the mysterious female aperture is localized on the solar plexus, on the stomach area. If I'm not mistaken there a stage on the practice in which the adept must hold his intent and qi higher than the navel but lower than the heart, until the qi will spontaneosly enter into this cavity. But I never understood When this should be done. Because the same source that I studyes mentioned earlier that the adept must hold his intent on the lower dantien until the Heat manifests and circulates the MCO.

 

Anyway, coming back to the topic...

 

 

My experience with what I think is most close to "minor death":

 

There are two occasions in which I feel my breath completely ceasing.

 

One of them I consider as being a pathological manifestation, maybe of exhausion of Yin, I'm still not sure. But my breathing gets very subtle and wants to cease. When laid down it tends to completely stop, accompanied by a sense of suffocation. This sense of suffocation indicates that this process is not a healthy outcome of the practice. I notice this happening when the air is very hot and stale and dry. If happening during the sleep it is accompanied by very vivid dreams with highly simbolic contents.

 

 

The second experience there i spontaneous stopping of the breathing, but interestingly there is no feeling of suffocation, which is kind of awkward and strange in the moment. I Laying down while having this experience, it is accompanied by a sense o levitating out of my body, of feeling the presence of entities roaming in the room, and a extremely fearful mystery on the air. On these instances I feel afraid of not coming back.

 

If, during this experience I neglect to lay down (due to the intensity of leaving the body), and stand up and walk around, my whole vision of the world and society crumbles down and I feel like I lost it. So I lay down for a while, walk for a while, laydown for a while, till it passes.

 

This second experience first happened in a Ayahuasca Ritual, and then after intense meditation on a Vipassana 10 day retreat, after focusing on the crown baihui intensely there was a feeling of dissolving of the body into pixels like a waterfall from head to toe, accompanied by a spontaneous exhalation and suspension of breath, some hallucinations and the feeling of the HuiYin dissolving and getting soft.

[Marblehead]

It is an interesting experience to unconsciously stop breathing for a period of time. I have experienced this as well. I likely would not even have know it happened except a couple times I was in the company of others and was told to breathe. I have no idea why it happens though.

[joeblast]

 

 

The book I read is "Opening the dragon gate" as mentioned in my post.

 

the 'mysterious female aperture' is mentioned in the tao teh ching. On Long Men Pai it is said that this "aperture" is found half way between the Heart (representing Heaven here) and the Navel / Kidneys (Representing Earth).

 

i.e. the mysterious female aperture is localized on the solar plexus, on the stomach area. If I'm not mistaken there a stage on the practice in which the adept must hold his intent and qi higher than the navel but lower than the heart, until the qi will spontaneosly enter into this cavity. But I never understood When this should be done. Because the same source that I studyes mentioned earlier that the adept must hold his intent on the lower dantien until the Heat manifests and circulates the MCO.

 

Anyway, coming back to the topic...

because the latter comes before the former

 

 

It is an interesting experience to unconsciously stop breathing for a period of time. I have experienced this as well. I likely would not even have know it happened except a couple times I was in the company of others and was told to breathe. I have no idea why it happens though.

electrochemical potential is derived via a few means, air and digestion of food are two. when the electromagnetic potentials are significant enough, more easily able to postpone that threshold where replenishing the electrochemical means becomes necessary.

 

this is why deep longevity breathing is so useful - streamlining processes until extremely harmonious, smoothing out the transitions between inhale and exhale, eventually those transitions seem to disappear and it is all one continuous rolling breath - further work the breath seems to disappear altogether but still just a small gutmotion that doesnt even seem connected to the breath all that much (unless you think about it too much ) and when that disappears, all light.

 

notice the energetic essence of the pause, and grab hold of that potential by entirely sidestepping the issue (but it takes very diligent work)