Finally something that suggests mindfulness?

[Marblehead]

IS mindfulness internal awareness?

That too, of course, and I think it is foremostly important.

[Marblehead]

Is not aware as a conscious act. Rather, to become aware of various factors and law of causality or acausality. A sense of insight and intuition resulted from being with the Tao and knowing the Tao.

You caused me to consider something. Mindfulness, I think, pertains more to the unconscious mind than it does to conscious awareness. Mindfulness doesn't necesarily mean that we are consciously aware of everything that is going on around us but rather that we are unconsciously mindful. This allows us to be in a state of Wu Wei when we are not consciously concentrating on any one or so events going on around us.

[ChiForce]

You caused me to consider something. Mindfulness, I think, pertains more to the unconscious mind than it does to conscious awareness. Mindfulness doesn't necesarily mean that we are consciously aware of everything that is going on around us but rather that we are unconsciously mindful. This allows us to be in a state of Wu Wei when we are not consciously concentrating on any one or so events going on around us.

Since our unconscious or the higher self close to the Tao is much larger than our consciousness, there is no point in consciously to become aware of everything..because you can't.

[GrandmasterP]

+1

The minute we think...

" Wow! That's me enlightened!"

 

We're wrong.

Edited April 5, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Stosh]

+1

The minute we think...

" Wow! That's me enlightened!"

 

We're wrong.

If you thought something more accurate , Yes, you were more enlightened.

[Rara]

You caused me to consider something. Mindfulness, I think, pertains more to the unconscious mind than it does to conscious awareness. Mindfulness doesn't necesarily mean that we are consciously aware of everything that is going on around us but rather that we are unconsciously mindful. This allows us to be in a state of Wu Wei when we are not consciously concentrating on any one or so events going on around us.

 

Do you think the states of mindfulness and mindlessness are quite similar then? As far as feeling goes...

 

I can't put my finger on it just yet, but daydreaming and being aware (subconsciously) both have one thing in common - being relaxed. Both are far from the same as each other though! The former, we are in "another world", the latter, we are well aware of what is going on and we find it very easy to handle things when in that state. Either way, both have their plus sides.

 

Sometimes when I meditate, I have to yell at myself to concentrate to stop me daydreaming. I do this because I set out a goal for concentration...it just helps in all aspects of life. I don't want to just sit down to meditate for 30 minutes and then daydream through it. That's a waste of time...I can do that while watching a crap film.

 

At other times though, I will just fall into awareness, with no effort. I think it depends on my mood!

 

I need to be able to execute the latter 100% of the time. That way, I stay consistent.

[GrandmasterP]

If you thought something more accurate , Yes, you were more enlightened.

 

From some perspectives, enlightenment = the end result of a long process of many lives.

From another perspective, it's the realisation of something that has always been the case.

Those perspectives are not necessarily contradictory. We can work with both of them.

The downside of the first perspective is that if one is not awakened already, then how can one form the right view and go in the right direction?

What is one doing in the meantime?

The downside of the second perspective is....

What need is there to undertake any cultivation, study or reflection when the goal is already here?

But there something to be said for both perspectives.

Edited April 7, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Rara]

From some perspectives, enlightenment = the end result of a long process of many lives.

From another perspective, it's the realisation of something that has always been the case.

Those perspectives are not necessarily contradictory. We can work with both of them.

The downside of the first perspective is that if one is not awakened already, then how can one form the right view and go in the right direction?

What is one doing in the meantime?

The downside of the second perspective is....

What need is there to undertake any cultivation, study or reflection when the goal is already here?

But there something to be said for both perspectives.

 

Is that a koan? Hehe...

 

Sounds like you're enlightened. No kidding, what else is there to know?

[GrandmasterP]

Is that a koan? Hehe...

 

Sounds like you're enlightened. No kidding, what else is there to know?

 

Everybody's enlightened ( potentially).

We're all just too darn busy to notice.

 

 

:-)

[Stosh]

From some perspectives, enlightenment = the end result of a long process of many lives.

From another perspective, it's the realisation of something that has always been the case.

Those perspectives are not necessarily contradictory. We can work with both of them.

The downside of the first perspective is that if one is not awakened already, then how can one form the right view and go in the right direction?

What is one doing in the meantime?

The downside of the second perspective is....

What need is there to undertake any cultivation, study or reflection when the goal is already here?

But there something to be said for both perspectives.

Playing devils advocate here, Paradigm one , trial and error , following the paths of those who went before and recognizing the improvements along the way may point one to what they have not yet gotten to.

 

Paradigm two , behaviors contrary to the dictates of the cultivation are also valid , but for other reasons.

 

On the validity of all the various perspectives on Tao,, ummm, the people having the perspectives are entitled to their own opinion. Those who think someone elses ideas are wrong, are likewise entitled to that opinion.

Whether person a or b understands what is meant by any given author can be shown to be true if they can remain consistent to the sentiment while making new statements about the subject. Its the same way one proves things in science , the principle or model ,once understood , points at solutions for problems elsewhere.

When one doesnt understand the priniciples , they end up nonsensical facing new aspects of the subject.

[Rara]

Playing devils advocate here,

Haha, nothing new then

[ChiForce]

From some perspectives, enlightenment = the end result of a long process of many lives.

From another perspective, it's the realisation of something that has always been the case.

Those perspectives are not necessarily contradictory. We can work with both of them.

The downside of the first perspective is that if one is not awakened already, then how can one form the right view and go in the right direction?

What is one doing in the meantime?

The downside of the second perspective is....

What need is there to undertake any cultivation, study or reflection when the goal is already here?

But there something to be said for both perspectives.

Well, is not hard to understand that the second perspective is wrong. Why? Is simple. If you think you are already enlightened in the tradition of the Mahayana school, how many sentient beings you have saved and helped. Historically and empirically speaking, how many lay individuals became enlightened in a single life time without any merit from their past lives. I say few to Zero. So, anyone think they are enlightened without ever paying their dues (to have experienced various Samadhi and Jhana states) are mostly enlightened in their own fancy Zen logic. Such as since everything is not real, even my own enlightenment isn't real. Therefore, I am enlightened because I don't experience enlightenment...since it is not real. Hehehehe.... Obviously, such an individuals can not affect changes in this world and to others because he possesses no wisdom.

 

The first perspective is probable and can be verified empirically and historically. You can verify your past life merit by knowing your past life karma!!!! Knowing your past life karma can influence your karmic affinity in the present, it can give you an idea what you need to work on in your cultivation. You know you have not become enlightened because you are still carrying on the heavy burden of your past life karma.

Edited April 22, 2014 by ChiForce

[ChiForce]

This also brings up another point...the bardo meditation and experience. From what I understand, the deceased individual can still be on the path, not sure about attaining the full liberation, by being guided by the Dharma teaching until his rebirth. This is assuming this individual didn't attain any degree of cultivation progress but only being given the last chance at the moment of his death. It is safe to say that this individual didn't inherit any past life merit that would have helped him in his cultivation while he was still alive.

 

Obviously, what are the chances that this individual would not need to be reborn because, during his bardo experience, he attains full liberation??? BTW, normally, the bardo meditation experience is generally experienced during your meditation while you are still alive.

[GrandmasterP]

Yes.

You are right.

As are our Pure Land cousins who know that...

"Kyogyoshinsho, Shinran describes in spiritual rather than material terms the 10 benefits for those having true faith in this life:

What are the 10 (benefits)? They are (1) the benefit of being protected by unseen divine beings, (2) the benefit of being possessed of the supreme virtue, (3) the benefit of having evil turned into good, (4) the benefit of being protected by all the Buddhas, (5) the benefit of being praised by all the Buddhas, (6) the benefit of being always protected by the Buddhas Spiritual Light, (7) the benefit of having much joy in mind, (8) the benefit of acknowledging His Benevolence and repaying it, (9) the benefit of always practicing the Great Compassion, and (10) the benefit of entering the Group of the Rightly Established State."

 

And all that from cultivating Nembutsu.

Winner!

 

:-)

Edited April 21, 2014 by GrandmasterP