Eating Flesh Pros and Cons

[林愛偉]

[el_tortugo]

I shall have to become a wheat berry.

 

I hope that I will be sprouted.

 

[beancurdturtle]

Some serious questions - though they sounds silly.

 

If I eat a lot of Tofu, will I come back as a soy bean plant?

 

If not, why does the principle apply to one kind of living thing and not another?

 

Or are there two different principles for different types of living things?

 

How does one know the different types of living things that belong to the different principles?

If it's based on a class of living thing, who decides what class applies to which?

If it's based on sentience, who decides what level of sentience applies to which principle?

 

I have no argument with your assertion. As you know, I've learned a great deal about Buddhism from you and I greatly appreciate it. I'm asking because I would like to know more about the details concerning your assertion.

 

Peace,

[林愛偉]

Beacurdturtle, your questions and answers

:

Some serious questions - though they sounds silly.

 

If I eat a lot of Tofu, will I come back as a soy bean plant? No...hahaha

 

If not, why does the principle apply to one kind of living thing and not another?

 

Answer:

Because the consciousness of plants and animals differ greatly. The consciousnes of plants is not that of a flesh being which has a consciousness to think with a distinctive mind. Eating it will not result in becoming it, but will result in purifying the body for the plants are of Earth's primal energy, and much more closer to purity, less afflictions... basically none. Though our bodies all come from the elements, the only difference is our consciousness.

 

Or are there two different principles for different types of living things?

 

Answer: the principle of karma is the same for all living beings. With plants it is just that their consciousness actually is more fitting to non afflictions than meat. To get meat, there is opposition from the living being being killed. From the plant, there is none. It is still, and such will be the mind.

 

How does one know the different types of living things that belong to the different principles?

 

Answer: Principle is the same, it is consciousness, the conditions of the living beings which differ. One must meditate.

 

If it's based on a class of living thing, who decides what class applies to which?

 

Answer: There is no class.

 

If it's based on sentience, who decides what level of sentience applies to which principle?

 

Answer: It is not based on sentience.

 

I have no argument with your assertion. As you know, I've learned a great deal about Buddhism from you and I greatly appreciate it. I'm asking because I would like to know more about the details concerning your assertion.

 

 

Peace Brother.

[beancurdturtle]

Answer:

Because the consciousness of plants and animals differ greatly. The consciousnes of plants is not that of a flesh being which has a consciousness to think with a distinctive mind. Eating it will not result in becoming it, but will result in purifying the body for the plants are of Earth's primal energy, and much more closer to purity, less afflictions... basically none. Though our bodies all come from the elements, the only difference is our consciousness.

So what makes a living thing also a living being is consciousness 吧？

 

Hmmmm.. food for thought. hehe

 

Peace,

[fatherpaul]

i eat whats on my plate

i drink whats in my glass

[Pero]

He who has compassion eats meat, he drinks alcohol who keeps the samaya. - Hevajratantra

[beancurdturtle]

i eat whats on my plate

i drink whats in my glass

ditto

 

and I'm strong to the finish, cause I eats me spinach.

 

toot toot

Edited July 26, 2007 by beancurdturtle

[Christoph]

I must have a poor sense of smell. In all of my years training in grappling I have never smelled anyone that had an aroma anything near bread,butter,cheese,onions. I think armpit funk that smells of garlic is a coincidence.Fresh sweat is basically odorless...its not until the bacteria get to work that it might smell of garlic.

 

If anything I think Americans reek of "product"...shampoo,lotion,cologne,anti-bacterial soap,scented laundry soap...ect

[林愛偉]

So what makes a living thing also a living being is consciousness 吧？

 

Hmmmm.. food for thought. hehe

 

Peace,

 

 

Funny thing about the word consciousness. It basically means anything with its "own" manner of energetic vibration.

 

Good food, good thoughts. Bad food, bad thoughts.

 

Peace,

Aiwei

[freeform]

I tend to agree on the smell side - not sure about bread, but cheese, onions, garlic, spices, asparagus, even alcohol and meat too. Admitedly I have a really good sense of smell (my Armenian nose helps )

 

But I can also smell out a linguistic double bind. A doble bind works like this: "if x=y then x must also = a" - used a lot by politicians - the idea here is if you accept one side of the equation (you smell of what you eat) then you're in a bind to accept the other side of the equation (you incarnate into what you ate).

 

I'm in no way saying it's untrue or true - just pointing out the glaring fault in logic. This is one of my BS (belief system) detectors.

 

Experientially speaking I can tell the difference in my body when I eat a lot of meat and when I eat only vegetables. At the moment I'm at a good balance (for me) of eating meat once or twice a week, mostly free range and organic (from a butcher, rather than a supermarket). I can see how being on a vegetable diet would be benificial at a certain point - but not because I'm worried about turning into a cow.

[Yoda]

That's is why I only eat highly attained human beings.

[freeform]

That's is why I only eat highly attained human beings.

 

[gendao]

Hmm, I dunno about all the spiritual or energetic drawbacks...but the main physical downside to eating meat IMO is that it turns your blood acidic. Which leeches minerals out of your bones in order to balance it back to a "normal" pH of 7.4 (slightly basic).

 

It's just like when you get cavities from plaque or drink some OJ or soda and your teeth feel a bit chalky right afterwards. This is all due to acid eating away at your teeth.

 

Meanwhile, if you eat a bunch of raw spinach or other leafy greens - you'll notice that your teeth feel much smoother and "sealed" after. This is because leafy greens alkalize your blood and, I suppose, saliva. Not to mention they are high in minerals. So, this all helps to "rebuild" your teeth instead of break it down.

 

The same thing would theoretically happen to your bones. Which is why the US has a higher rate of osteoporosis than Asia - even though they hardly consume calcium-rich dairy but we drink it in loads. The difference is that they also eat more veggies and less animal protein - while we do the opposite. So, the net effect is that they are less acidic than we are.

 

Bottomline: Eat less meat and more leafy greens. Because it's a battle between acidic and alkaline - and ideally we want to be slightly alkaline and not acidic.

[mYTHmAKER]

EATING FLESH: PROS AND CONS

By the Venerable Master Hsuan Hua

 

If you don't eat meat, you miss out on delicious flavors, and the food you eat is probably quite bland and not so exciting. But if you take this little bit of loss while you are still alive, when you die you won't have to become a pig, or a cow, or a sheep, and you won't have to fall into the hells.

 

Sounds like a little desire creeping in.

I don't eat meat as I have no desire to do so.

Vegetables and fruits are not bland and are delicious.

[lotusbud]

More food for thought:

 

Jesus said to them, "...After all, what goes into your mouth will not defile you; rather, it's what comes out of your mouth that will defile you."

 

and also:

 

Jesus said, "Blessed is the lion that the human being will devour so that the lion becomes human. And cursed is the human being that the lion devours; and the lion will become human."

 

As usual the inner and outer meanings of things are not so different from each other.

[Mike Rambling]

So what makes a living thing also a living being is consciousness 吧？

Turtle, my understanding is like this:

• A living thing is anything capable of reproduction with variations introduced by natural selection.
   
  
• A conscious being is a living thing that is aware of its own existence.
  

Further:

• A human is a living thing that is of the species Homo sapiens.
   
  
• A person is a human who is also a conscious being.
  

These lead to some interesting (and perhaps specious) conclusions:

• In your normal state you are both human and a person.
   
  
• Someone in an irreversible coma is still human but is no longer a person.
   
  
• A foetus (never having had consciousness), is human but not a person.
  

These distinctions may allow us to assign different levels of rights to living things, conscious beings, humans and persons.

Edited July 28, 2007 by Mike Rambling

[Pietro]

That's is why I only eat highly attained human beings.

Damn, beaten up on time!

 

Coutesy of MagicCards.info

 

In any case meat stinks bad only when you cook it. Eat it raw and it doesn't stink bad at all. I had many people telling me how can they can tell a meat eater from a vegetarian by how they smell but they just couldn't with me.

[seadog]

Me eyes are on the front of my face,like a lions,like cat,like a wolf,like a dog,like a bear.My eyes are not on the side of my face like a sheep,like a cow,like a kangaroo,like a fish.If our ancestors were not culinary opportunists none of would be here in this human form.In the past our species had more reverence,dignity and honour for the creatures they hunted,skinned and consumed.Cellaphane wrapped slaughter house super market gathering meat will no doubt have karmic implications greater then the smell of questionable b.o.

[宁]

the topic of food is of much importance

 

1. vegetarianism is not of the tao, because a taoist takes what is good from everything, without making too many assumptions

2. a taoist knows that humans are not the top of the food chain, and his diet reflects that humbleness. who am I to decide who eats who, when I myself am food for other beings?

3. when you are involved in alchemy practice, transforming the material into immaterial, you need to eat very well. in the darkroom practice, a trained practicioner has about 6 meals a day. if you devitalize yourself with poor diets, you cannot do it. as my teacher says, you cannot make alchemy eating two carrots a day.

4. taoist trofology is a very interesting subject. so interesting, that Li Ching-yun, when asked about the secret practices of immortality and longevity, said that you can practice ad nauseam, but if you dont have a strong, clean and healthy lifestyle, you wont acheive much

5. eating only vegetables you wont have enough power to function. many so called vegetarians eat tons of sweets to keep the energy up high enough so they can face everyday life. but the sugar from the sweets cant nourish the brain. the liver and the brain are overworked and devitalized. you eat yourself inside out, so that you can carry on.

6. poor diets were mainly for the monks. if they ate well, they would have a hard time controlling thoughts, emotions and sexual energy. so, they starved themselves to the point that the body didnt have enough energy to be a problem anymore. they sat starved and quiet. and maybe the ones that had real good reserves, acheived something. all the rest aged fast and died.

7. my teachers told me that spirit practice should be a means to awaken yourself to real life and facts. they were sad to see that people use spirit practice to get high up in the clouds.

 

Little

[Pietro]

6. poor diets were mainly for the monks. if they ate well, they would have a hard time controlling thoughts, emotions and sexual energy. so, they starved themselves to the point that the body didnt have enough energy to be a problem anymore. they sat starved and quiet. and maybe the ones that had real good reserves, acheived something. all the rest aged fast and died.

Agreed,

if you read Gandhi autobiography he will describe how it was paramount for him to keep a very strict diet to be able to keep hic complete vow of celibacy. But he wasn't exactly a passive man.

 

Also some food tend to require the gall bladder to do a lot of work and that feeds thoughts and fantasies. Maybe there is a way not to starve yourself, and still be clean enough not to succumb so much to thoughts to do more than a moderate sexual activity.

[beancurdturtle]

Turtle, my understanding is like this:

• A living thing is anything capable of reproduction with variations introduced by natural selection.
   
  
• A conscious being is a living thing that that is aware of its own existence.
  

Further:

• A human is a living thing that is of the species Homo sapiens.
   
  
• A person is a human who is also a conscious being.
  

Further more, furthermore :

• A taoist is a living, conscious, human, person, attempting to exist with awareness while being less aware of their existence
  

[林愛偉]

the topic of food is of much importance

 

1. vegetarianism is not of the tao, because a taoist takes what is good from everything, without making too many assumptions

2. a taoist knows that humans are not the top of the food chain, and his diet reflects that humbleness. who am I to decide who eats who, when I myself am food for other beings?

3. when you are involved in alchemy practice, transforming the material into immaterial, you need to eat very well. in the darkroom practice, a trained practicioner has about 6 meals a day. if you devitalize yourself with poor diets, you cannot do it. as my teacher says, you cannot make alchemy eating two carrots a day.

4. taoist trofology is a very interesting subject. so interesting, that Li Ching-yun, when asked about the secret practices of immortality and longevity, said that you can practice ad nauseam, but if you dont have a strong, clean and healthy lifestyle, you wont acheive much

5. eating only vegetables you wont have enough power to function. many so called vegetarians eat tons of sweets to keep the energy up high enough so they can face everyday life. but the sugar from the sweets cant nourish the brain. the liver and the brain are overworked and devitalized. you eat yourself inside out, so that you can carry on.

6. poor diets were mainly for the monks. if they ate well, they would have a hard time controlling thoughts, emotions and sexual energy. so, they starved themselves to the point that the body didnt have enough energy to be a problem anymore. they sat starved and quiet. and maybe the ones that had real good reserves, acheived something. all the rest aged fast and died.

7. my teachers told me that spirit practice should be a means to awaken yourself to real life and facts. they were sad to see that people use spirit practice to get high up in the clouds.

 

Little

 

Nice list, but Vegetarianism is of the Dao. The Way isn't only in terms of human needs sustanence, so eat an animal.

I know Daoists of great cultivation who are only vegetarian. I know vegetarians who are alive now at 90+ yrs old, Monks who have been vegetarian for the last 40 somewhat, if not more, years. There is a way to do it. And that means knowing what to eat, and eliminating alot of the unecessary additives like Sugar. A lot of vegetarians do not know how to cultivate such a manner.

Eating animals does not assist in good cultivation it only fills the stomach. If mind is proper, emotions at rest, then one will succeed. If there are monks who are old and brittle from their not eating meat, that is such of Karma.

If monks, both Buddhist and Daoist, eat vegies just to subdue the emotions and leave their body to rot, then that may be the expedient they need for their cultivation. It doesn't seem like they would do such a thing though.

Eating vegetables does give enough power to function. If one is looking to fill their belly, then that is where the problem is. Hunger is not something that one should be controlled by. There are cultivators who get up early in the morning and practice for a few hours. By noon they eat vegetarian, and by evening they eat more vegies if hungry. If not they do what they do and then go to rest.

 

There is too much misconceptions of vegetarianism. Too many people not cultivting it properly and only hurting themseves because they think it is enough to just eat a vegetable. They have to eat many.. not just 2 carrots...hahaha

 

Peace,

Aiwei

Edited July 27, 2007 by 林愛偉

[beancurdturtle]

6. poor diets were mainly for the monks. if they ate well, they would have a hard time controlling thoughts, emotions and sexual energy. so, they starved themselves to the point that the body didnt have enough energy to be a problem anymore. they sat starved and quiet. and maybe the ones that had real good reserves, acheived something. all the rest aged fast and died.

Though this may be true, it seems to be back asswards.

 

Starve yourself so you don't have the energy to to have the thoughts you feel like you need to control? Doesn't that mean you are controlling your diet rather than your thoughts?

 

The objective for controlling the thoughts, seems to me, would be to change behavior. Why not skip all the subterfuge and just eat appropriately and behave appropriately?

 

Like Nik days, "Just do."

[lotusbud]

I had wanted to become a vegetarian since I was a teenager but living in my parents house made it impossible to get the nutrition I needed as well as keep the peace.

 

When I moved out I dived into a vegetarian diet with enthusiasm, but even when I had a large variety of foods and had filled my stomach to bursting I could tell something wasn't right. I wasn't getting something. It was the awful feeling of being both full and hungry at the same time. Like walking around with a hole in me. I craved meat and when I gave in I was satisfied, guilty but satisfied. I now know that I shouldn't have beaten myself up. That was just where I was at at that time.

 

In the end I had a lot of help from many people to adjust my body so that I no longer crave meat. I am very thankful for this gift they have given me. If I did it on my own it would have been a longer harder road I'm sure. People should really listen to their masters and not put too much stock in general rules. They know what you need. Maybe she just wants to test you.

 

As an aside anyone who thinks that plants are without awareness is, I think, assuming.