Intellectualism is for wimps

[teriyaki]

I have no idea what you're talking about deci

[zanshin]

I didn't follow it all either, but decided the title is probably correct. Homo Sapiens (Latin: thinking man) is a pretty wimpy species except for intellect. If people weren't so smart and tricksy, all the present generation would never exist to argue and shoot the breeze about philosophy and that is because predators would have killed and eaten us long ago. Intellect is a survival strategy that has worked pretty well on the global species level. Irony is now the wimps bully all the other species. I think I'll miss the tigers most of all. I know it's not really a discussion of biology and dna, perhaps some of the a certain species of mammal will become enlightened and gain ever-lasting life. I'm just a girl who pays the bills and does the laundry.

[soaring crane]

 

I didn't follow it all either, but decided the title is probably correct. Homo Sapiens (Latin: thinking man) is a pretty wimpy species except for intellect.

 

I guess it's easy to make that conclusion about us, but it isn't 100% true. Scrawny, early homo erectus were physically capable of a few things their competitors couldn't keep up with. Foremost, the upright stance combined with the ability to sweat, allowed them to hunt in the heat when the other predators were forced to wait for evening. And the prey animals had the same dilemma, they couldn't keep ahead of those weird, hungry two-footed bald monkeys.

 

Our eyes are also something special. We have extremely effective color- and depth perception that on the one hand makes it difficult for prey to hide from us, while at the same time making it difficult for predators to hide from us. Mr. Wild Boar might not see you lurking there in the brush, Mr. Tiger, but I see you!

 

 

Edited March 29, 2014 by soaring crane

[deci belle]

Refusal seems different from inability

Inability to accept reality as is is refusing to see reality as is.

 

Turning the light around is as easy as turning over your hand.

 

Nungali, the wimp is unable due to a refusal to change— it is not fear. This is the lie.

 

At any rate, fear is an excuse for the inability to change oneself. The fear is existential.

 

Remember, if you hadn't taken this into consideration already… the wimp is one with over 20,000 posts and makes his living on this forum speculating on the core material of the traditional taoist canon.

 

Who are you pimping?

 

I am finished discussing this rhetorical point with you.

[deci belle]

I have no idea what you're talking about deci

 

That's cuz yer special, dear❤

[liminal_luke]

Deci,

 

You clearly have a lot of valuable things to say. In spite of some occasional no doubt "wimpy" snarkiness on my part, I'm glad you're here. Like many I don't understand all that you write (I'm special that way too) but I do understand some, and even what I don't understand I sometimes find startlingly poetic.

 

It just seems incongruous to me that your otherwise beautiful writing is studded with insults. Suppose you know for certain that a particular person really is a wimp, as you say. Unless that person has asked for your feedback and is likely to be receptive to it, what good does it do to say so?

 

Liminal

[Nungali]

Inability to accept reality as is is refusing to see reality as is.

 

Turning the light around is as easy as turning over your hand.

 

Nungali, the wimp is unable due to a refusal to change— it is not fear. This is the lie.

 

At any rate, fear is an excuse for the inability to change oneself. The fear is existential.

 

Remember, if you hadn't taken this into consideration already… the wimp is one with over 20,000 posts and makes his living on this forum speculating on the core material of the traditional taoist canon.

 

Who are you pimping?

 

I am finished discussing this rhetorical point with you.

 

Refusing creates inability then ? Fair enough - fear is the forerunner of failure.

 

Wimp is not general but specific now ... or always was ? I thought this was a general observation and not a specific attack? Hence your discussion has somewhat lost its value to me, a pity as you were starting to enter the 'dreamtime' (in a different sort of westerner way ) for a moment there ... but it tangentially veered due to bitterness; it can loose sight of the target, the same as ones discussion and insights that are generated to make a living or an income here could.

 

I am not a pimp for anyone ... nor do I 'make a living' of anything I do, propose or think here .... nor do I have a reason to discredit any particular individual. I am not marketing myself or selling anything.

Edited March 29, 2014 by Nungali

[Infinity]

Intellectualism is basically the dishonest way to hide from reality as is while attempting to observe it /appear to understand (unsuccessfully) otherwise.

Is someone who believes a lie a lier. In the most ruthless sense yes I suppose so. But in the context of a baby being given a false impression which it then moulds it's world with it seems maybe a little harsh, although in the cold light of day it's true.

 

With our intellect/reason we speculate and dance around the waters edge, reasoning its possible colour, texture, depth and temperature and also the best way to enter, dive, jump, with or without a mantra, in full lotus, using a certain technique etc.. and the list is infinite.

 

Sometimes slowly over many tens of years or even more but probably in an infinite universe eventually we dip our toe in the water and decide it's not for us maybe a little scary ...and then try again later... Ha ha ha.

 

It's true we are wimps. Very conditioned cowards afraid of silence and our own shadow and it's ridiculous! The fact that I cannot dive into 'my' unconscious fully is because I am a coward no two ways about it. I am on some level afraid of the idea not being 'myself' or in reality being/feeling myself, it's unlove. This is my intellect talking!

 

But can the intellect rationalise this fear and reduce it and slowly lower itself into the water and eventually reason that it's safe to go under and that it's ok to let go?

 

In my understanding reasoning can never understand the infinite but it can understand itself and thus see its short comings and it's irrationality, and when reason sees that it's unreasonable it has to let go of itself and silence which is always there is then heard.

 

I believe there is honest truth seeking reasoning (however blind and false) which is not dancing on the water edge for its own sake. We may be just avoiding the truth by reasoning but to begin with we think we don't know what the truth is, I know the 'think' word is the crux here.

 

In the infinite I guess (and I am guessing) ALL must exist the true and the false. And I guess the truth and the truth and the...

 

They say all rivers reach the ocean but some meander a little.

 

My tea is now cold but my heart feels warm.

 

Love to you all.

 

∞

 

Edited as nearly always for grandma and spelling

Edited March 29, 2014 by Infinity

[Nungali]

 

It's true we are wimps. Very conditioned cowards afraid of silence and our own shadow and it's ridiculous! The fact that I cannot dive into 'my' unconscious fully is because I am a coward no two ways about it. I am on some level afraid of the idea not being 'myself' or in reality being/feeling myself, it's unlove. This is my intellect talking!

 

 

 

Thats an easier read as it turns to self observation instead of projected attack. . Unless we define intellect to mean only what we want to criticise about it - intellect can operate apart from illusions of self and identity (which can still reside in the unconscious - so diving in there may not solve the issue) .

 

Everything can still work fine when identity and 'self' is removed from the equation .

[Infinity]

Everything can still work fine when identity and 'self' is removed from the equation .

 

Very good point!

 

My meaning was the letting go of our reason to question as opposed of our ability to question (intellect).

 

∞

[GrandmasterP]

Removing 'identity and self from the equation' is a tough call though.

If anyone has any tips on how to do that......

Mine's always there rattling around the old 'monkey mind'.

Edited March 29, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

It's true though.

 

Sometimes I feel like saying the following;

 

None of you have the strength to do what I did.

 

None!

 

But then I think it was not strength but weakness.

 

And then I think.

 

In order to strengthen, first weaken.

 

When I first approached the void twenty years ago in meditation I thought I can't go in there!

 

That is where I am not!

 

I'll cease to exist!

 

After that they say you are transformed, into something no longer quite like a normal human!

 

I don't want to not exist!

 

I don't want to be unlike a normal human!

 

So I withdrew from the void, wimp that I was.

 

Many years later, my attitude changed.

 

I thought, what the f**k.

 

What have I got to lose?

...

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

The Fool only discovers the secret of agnososia after he has stepped off the cliff.

...

[deci belle]

Now that's what this whole thread has gone down for!!

 

I appreciate concise posts like that from you~ Merciii, mon Capitain❤

[deci belle]

The point being that wimpy vicarious intellectual interpretation of the words of the classics is not even valid in terms of of gaining a real rapport with the celestial mechanism by virtue of applying the subtleties spoken of in the classics.

 

This means that one must trust oneself and find out what the classics are based on in fact.

 

The ancients didn't sit around and make up shit, nor did they consider what might seem reasonably logical.

 

They endeavored to describe the unspeakable, not to explain it. They left the secret of enlightening being for those with the audacity to discover it within themselves for themselves.

 

If one does not know the source of the classics, one does not know one's own mind right now.

 

If one is ignorant of one's essential nature, then it is hardly acceptable for this to be a basis for justifying one's ignorance of one's essential nature.

 

In other words, unless one knows the source of the wordless wisdom of one's own being aware, how can one go and say that ignorance of one's essence protects one from reality?

 

It is chicken-shit, absurd, specious discourse— not the roar of those with the will to enlightenment.

 

If this applies to you, then apply it to you.

 

Otherwise~ go jump off a cliff!! hahahhahahhahahhahahaa!!!!❤❤

[Nungali]

Removing 'identity and self from the equation' is a tough call though.

If anyone has any tips on how to do that......

Mine's always there rattling around the old 'monkey mind'.

 

Observe and interact ... without thinking what observes .... all that 'stuff' out there ( well, in this neck of the woods) is fine without identity. It doesn't need my identity to function, nor do I need it to function in nature. I might need it when I go into the 'real world' - out there.

 

Nature might have its own concept of identity though .... but thats none of my business. If it wants to throw up 'illusions' of identity (like Yowies or Piskies ) I will stop for a chat ... just like I am doing now .

[deci belle]

Oh, I don't know about that, mr P~ it is not a matter of removing self at all… so whatever difficulty there is is in not seeing that much.

 

Nor is it a matter of a lackadaisical attitude such as Nungali is suggesting.

 

The effect of self AND other aren't so much removed by nonpsychological awareness in the midst of ordinary affairs, as much as it is awareness itself which is not moving, so conditions (which exist by karmic momentum) are neutralized, sublimated within nondifferentiation in the subtle operation of enlightening activity as it is called reversal of the light or turning the light around.

 

No one has ever stopped awareness. Awareness itself has never moved. There is nothing to it, as well nothing inside or outside the totality of reality. Where could unity itself move? This is the uncreate. I keep saying it is your own mind right now… because it is. Seeing essence is seeing just this. Just this much is reality as is before you own eyes right now.

 

What Nungali is suggesting is that one is just coming and going as one pleases (that is THE definition of delusion) and this is not the case at all because one MUST effect a complete vulnerability to the situation one finds oneself in in order to transcend its conditional karmic killing energy in terms of the complete cycle. Ya gotta give up your life in order to find it anew every step of the way.

 

One must go through fire to refine the potential of Sages.

 

This is called planting lotuses in fire in endless transformations; sublimating oneself physically and spiritually and entering the Tao in reality— not coming and going as one pleases.

 

Transcendence must be accomplished by risking everything on the situation's terms, otherwise one is not a buddha. This is because there is nothing outside oneself that isn't inside oneself. This is no different than awareness. Why? Awareness is one's nature. Awareness is the true identity, not the conditional false psychological identity that wimps claim to need to protect in order to survive.

 

Now do people realize what I'm (not) referring to when I talk about what a wimp can never accomplish?

 

This is REAL. It is not a joke or a game. This is entering the tiger's lair or the dragon's cave to steal the pearl of immortality at every turn according to the time in terms of the cycle of each karmic situation. This is immortalism right now carried on by adepts in broad daylight without anyone knowing. It is the matter of life and death entered fully into by acceptance of your enlightening function and taking the forward step (and going off the cliff).

 

It's not that the light is altered by stepping off the cliff (it is, in fact its enlivening, in terms of one's enlightening being), but that enlightening activity is a matter of personally not going along with psychological momentum while adapting impersonally to conditions as you find them is the firing process.

 

Enlightening being is the effect of not-seeing or seeing through karmic momentum in the very midst of affairs.

 

Reality is not different; it is cogitation relative to conditions that creates them (assumes karmic potential or enters into creation).

 

So abiding in the nonpsychological effects the spiritual potential within the situation itself; therefore one does not go along.

 

In not going along, one transcends the cycle of yin and yang comprising the karmic pattern's mass/energy/momentum.

 

Not using (going along unawares or ignorantly entertaining a speculative relationship with) this much created energy is gaining this much potential one naturally stores in the central chamber void of intellectualization.

 

In alchemical terms this is called taking over creation and stealing potential.

 

It is also referred to as subtle operation of enlightening being.

 

Buddhism refers to this as seeing through phenomena without denying characteristics.

 

 

 

 

ed note: add 2nd sentence

Edited March 30, 2014 by deci belle

[Nungali]

Now removing ' identity and self from the equation' = removing awareness ?

 

Awareness needs identity ?

 

If " entering the tiger's lair or the dragon's cave to steal the pearl of immortality at every turn according to the time in terms of the cycle of each karmic situation. This is immortalism right now carried on by adepts in broad daylight without anyone knowing. " is not a joke or a game, it is at least a colourful metaphor. ... Because everything is a metaphor.

 

If mine is lackadaisical its a lackadaisical metaphor. I have been feeling rather whimsical lately.

 

Nungali being lackadaisical;

 

 

 

 

Instead of spiritual :

 

 

 

In a few weeks I might get more energetic and again 'storm heaven by force'.

 

 

[GrandmasterP]

However and wherever we are is all there is.

Lackadaisical rocks, it's conducive to meditation.

Lazy people get more done.

Edited March 31, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Nungali]

[johndoe2012]

.

Edited May 15, 2014 by chris d

[GrandmasterP]

Observing thoughts and gently letting them go, uninfluenced; is a conscious act for starters but becomes less so the better we get at doing that.

Then things start to become interesting.

[deci belle]

It is no metaphor. Open sincerity does not come and go relative to the person, so the "Central Court" spoken of in the 52nd hexagram, Mountain, is neither conditional nor absolute identity neither removed nor activated.

 

The function of one's own aware nature is in identity being selfless. Though unity be an intellectual abstraction, its function is most real and carried out in difficulty and ease. It is not carried out by one's own power.

 

This is the touch-stone of enlightening activity. It is also the working definition of "selfless".

 

"Selfless" is not a matter of diminishing anything in terms of its function. It is the Great Vehicle of buddhas, adepts, saints and wizards. The diminishment of self in terms of identity of personality is another subject matter entirely, and one, the recreational philosophers and other wimps, cannot penetrate.

 

If you can penetrate this, this is entry into inconceivability. Those with the will to enlightenment have unbending intent, simply because they have not gained entry. When I mention "wimps", it is in reference to those who make excuses, a priori, couched in terminology extolling the virtue of abandoning the will to enlightenment~ as if it is some sort of natural, instinctual survival-skill. Survival of the facetious ego-identity perhaps, but this is lost in death anyway. Enlightenment is the discovery (and the power) of the knowledge of the non-existence of death (and birth). This is the reason for the buddhist reference to the "matter of life and death".

 

"The will to enlightenment" is "applying this to yourself". "Jumping off a cliff" is entry into the inconceivable.

 

Yunyan said, "East mountain walks on water". This neither comes nor goes, not removed, not activated.

 

East mountain walks on water is not metaphoric.

 

"Us", much less "doing" is not it.

 

I want you to avoid rational explanations.

 

In the course of ordinary affairs, it gets interesting when one arrives at "responding without responding". This is abiding in selflessness; adapting to conditions by seeing through phenomena, not denying characteristics.

 

What's NOT easy about this is that though the world DOESN'T KNOW, the karmic matrix requires you to abide in the creative, and a lackadaisical easy-come, easy-go attitude won't cut the mustard not just because taking over creation and stealing potential is only within the parlance of those with the power to do so, those who have already entered the inconceivable, but because this knowledge is spontaneous, deriving from the situation itself. Meeting potential and matching it with creation to transcend Change is not a matter of going along or not. It is actually using the erotic within selfless awareness in terms of the situation itself to somehow stand outside the process while meeting its energetic pattern.

 

One must needs be wedded to the evolutionary aspect of any given situation; committed and vulnerable to its energetic and psychic properties, to be in the position to enact the subtle operation.

 

Getting to the function of east mountain walks on water is operating by virtue of the essence of awareness when one has long since ceased entertaining speculative complacency in circumstantial relationships, i.e.: profiteering. Virtue blooms of its own accord when the most subtle pattern of profiteering is forgotten, died, abandoned.

 

The Yin Convergence Classic, an extremely ancient document, touches on this.

 

 

 

 

 

ed note: tweak 4th paragraph; add "rational" in 10th paragraph

Edited April 2, 2014 by deci belle

[Boy]

...

Edited April 6, 2014 by Boy

[soaring crane]

haha, Boy, that was a great post, a wonderful idea, thank you!