What is Neigong?

[NotVoid]

What is neigong?

 

I see a fair bit of apparent misunderstanding about this term, so I thought I would just try to clarify the meanings and usage of this term based on my own personal understanding and experience. I know my post here won't likely really make any difference, and many people will continue to misunderstand and argue over such terms and concepts, but what the heck. Maybe someone will take away something useful from this.

 

Neigong can be both a generic term meaning general internal cultivation practices, or it can mean internal skill(s) developed from internal cultivation, and it is also used to sometimes indicate very specialized practices and skills of internal cultivation. When it comes to practices such as qigong, neigong, and Chinese martials arts, (and probably Chinese medicine and other traditional related systems/practices as well), my experience has been that different teachers of different systems can use and define different terms quite differently. This is a key point that I think is often misunderstood by many Westerners or by anyone in general in modern times. Other than the very generic meaning of terms like qigong and neigong, the way these and many various related terms and concepts are used in different traditional systems and by different teachers can vary a lot in my experience. What I have just said in this paragraph can't be emphasized enough, IMO. If someone is insisting that qigong or neigong means only some very narrow set of practices or some very specific way of doing something, etc., then it is a pretty good indication that they have no real understanding about the actual broad range of practices and viewpoints and systems which make use of such terms and concepts.

 

Terms and concepts including everything from jing, qi, shen, qigong, neigong, meridians, channels, energy centers, soul, spirit, five elements, internal, external, etc., etc., can be viewed and used quite differently from system to system and teacher to teacher. These terms simply do not seem to have the kind of more rigid and strict definitions which many terms and concepts can have in modern times. Ask five different teachers from five different traditional systems what is qigong and neigong, and what is qi, and what is internal and what is external, etc., and you may very well get quite a wide variation in answers. If you think that this indicates that one teacher is right, and all the others are wrong, then you are misunderstanding the traditional way that such concepts are viewed and used IMO. Rather than viewing things in such a rigid and limiting way, I think it is more meaningful to understand that such terms are often just not used in any sort of fixed and rigid way, and each teacher will use them in a way that makes sense to them, and which suits their own purposes and their own point of view. What is important is the underlying experience, and what are the benefits that any particular system can really give. Getting hung up on terms and concepts seems to be primarily due to trying to impose modern ways of looking at and approaching things on more ancient or traditional ways of looking at and approaching things. The two approaches do not necessarily mesh. If you think about all these terms and concepts related to neigong/internal cultivation in a much more plastic and pliable and loose fashion, then you have a better chance of starting to delve into the 'ancient' way which things were viewed. What is important is the underlying experience and the specific type of results which a certain system focuses on developing, and think of the terms and concepts which are used to 'explain' such things more just as guide lines that help give some idea of what the system is about. The terms and concepts and viewpoints give some sense of what a practice is about and how things are 'explained' at a surface level , but the actual practice itself is based on developing the internal experience and skills which may not actually be able to be described well in words and concepts at all.

 

From what I have seen there are a lot of widely varying practices that may fall under the term 'neigong', everything from health exercises and stretching, foundational practices which build a good foundation for other practices, to very specific internal cultivation practices and very specific skills development, to meditation practices focused on self cultivation. Some practices are good for health and longevity, some practices develop very special and even extraordinary skills, and some practices are primarily for self cultivation. All might use the term 'neigong'. Some practices may be in general good for anyone, some practices may be potentially dangerous, or even harmful in the long run, and some practices are exclusive to a particular teacher or system and can only be learned through accomplished teachers in that particular system directly from teacher to student.

 

Because some of these sorts of terms can have a certain mystique about them, certain teachers these days may adopt such terms as a way of marketing what they are selling as something very special and exceptional or 'high level', but if you travel around and meet teachers from various systems you will likely see that there are a wide variety of different practices which may develop quite different types of skills or which may have quite different purposes, and trying to compare them is like trying to compare apples and oranges and potatoes. Which is better, and which is 'higher level'? How do you measure higher level? With a measuring tape or ruler? There are many different systems which can have various purposes, and which can take widely differing approaches. Some are focused on health, some on martial arts skill, some are focused on healing and therapy, and some are focused on self cultivation, and some are multi purpose. I will say again that some practices out there can be potentially dangerous or harmful, and not all teachers out there are really qualified or teaching a 'good' system, so use caution and some good sense when seeking out teachers and practices.

 

Edited March 30, 2014 by NotVoid

[ChiDragon]

IMO. If someone is insisting that qigong or neigong means only some very narrow set of practices or some very specific way of doing something, etc., then it is a pretty good indication that they have no real understanding about the actual broad range of practices and viewpoints and systems which make use of such terms and concepts.

IMO....
Neigoong is a just general term meaning "internal strength method" for all practices. The reason it is so confusing right now, in the west, is because people are trying to lump everything together as in every term they knew. Each term has its own meaning and is different from one another. Hence, that is why they are named different. If people said Chi Kung is Neigong and both are all inclusive, then, there was really nothing has been said and nothing was understood to distinguish the meaning of each term.

Here is the worse fallacy about Chi Kung. Some said it may or may not have something to do with breathing and it is very contradictory. It has to be one way or the other but not both. I don't know how the truth got lost in the translation.

[NotVoid]

IMO....

Neigoong is a just general term meaning "internal strength method" for all practices. ...

Hi ChiDragon. in response I can only repeat what I said above, that from my own experience anyway, 'internal strength method' would only be one of various ways and contexts in which the term neigong is used. In the context of martial arts, neigong is often used in that sense, but in a more general sense the term neigong seems to apply to all sorts of internal cultivation practices and the skills they develop. The common thread being 'internal', but from what I have seen even the concept of 'internal' can be viewed somewhat differently in different systems.

Edited March 30, 2014 by NotVoid

[ChiDragon]

The common thread being 'internal', but from what I have seen even the concept of 'internal' can be viewed somewhat differently in different systems.

 

 

Hi, NotVoid....

You are correct but how many "internals" are there internal to a body....???

 

Again, it would be meaningless if the meaning of "internal" was made too broad.

Edited March 30, 2014 by ChiDragon

[NotVoid]

... how many "internals" are there internal to a body....???

Again, it would be meaningless if the meaning of "internal" was made too broad.

Hi ChiDragon. I think we have to be careful to not mix up how a term is actually used in different contexts, and how we might like to personally view and use a term. As an example, for the term 'internal', I think you said elsewhere that you think neigong means building up the strength in the muscles, whereas I have known teachers of internal martial arts who would say that using qi cultivation with the main purpose of strengthening and protecting the muscles is an 'external' practice. The 'internal' in relation to neigong as used in the martial arts and other areas I think more typically is used in the sense of internal cultivation in regards to internal qi cultivation and related, rather than specifically to muscles, or connective tissues, or internal organs, or bones. Developing and utilizing the internal qi can cause changes to the body and can be utilized to protect and strengthen the body, and likewise certain exercises for the body can help to open meridians and channels and help in the cultivation of qi, but the primary focus in 'neigong' seems to typically be on various ways of cultivating and utilizing the internal qi and mind/spirit. However, as I mentioned, different teachers and systems really do seem to have varying views on such things, which was my point. In actual use, the term neigong does not seem to have been used in just one limited sense. If a person wanted a general definition of neigong, then internal cultivation practices might work for the most part, but the actual practices and views regarding neigong seems to include a lot of different things. It can include many different approaches and practices which usually involves developing and utilizing the internal qi and mind/spirit in certain ways.

Edited March 30, 2014 by NotVoid

[dawei]

Just accept that some will answer purely based on running off to read a book or website explanation...

 

Those with experience tend to not need to explain it so much. But when they try to explain it to the book crowd, they are engaged in endless discussion and in the end, the book crowd knows nothing more and reveals less.

[ChiDragon]

Hi ChiDragon. I think we have to be careful to not mix up how a term is actually used in different contexts, and how we might like to personally view and use a term. As an example, for the term 'internal', I think you said elsewhere that you think neigong means building up the strength in the muscles, whereas I have known teachers of internal martial arts who would say that using qi cultivation with the main purpose of strengthening and protecting the muscles is an 'external' practice. The 'internal' in relation to neigong as used in the martial arts and other areas I think more typically is used in the sense of internal cultivation in regards to internal qi cultivation and related, rather than specifically to muscles, or connective tissues, or internal organs, or bones. Developing and utilizing the internal qi can cause changes to the body and can be utilized to protect and strengthen the body, and likewise certain exercises for the body can help to open meridians and channels and help in the cultivation of qi, but the primary focus in 'neigong' seems to typically be on various ways of cultivating and utilizing the internal qi and mind/spirit. However, as I mentioned, different teachers and systems really do seem to have varying views on such things, which was my point. In actual use, the term neigong does not seem to have been used in just one limited sense. If a person wanted a general definition of neigong, then internal cultivation practices might work for the most part, but the actual practices and views regarding neigong seems to include a lot of different things. It can include many different approaches and practices which usually involves developing and utilizing the internal qi and mind/spirit in certain ways.

 

What are you really saying, eventually, everything was done internally. Anything was practiced inside the body, regardless, its purpose is to enhance the well being of the body and its strength as the final result. It is still covered in the general term as neigong(內功). Btw I was only using the muscle scenario as one of the examples.

 

If you want, I can go down to a more finer detail how the muscle works begin with biochemistry of the body cells. We can stay away from all this endless conceptual talks if we can be avoided.

Edited March 30, 2014 by ChiDragon

[NotVoid]

What are you really saying, eventually, everything was done internally. Anything was practiced inside the body, regardless, its purpose is to enhance the well being of the body and its strength as the final result.

Well, that's not what I have been saying. What you are describing is one potential benefit of internal cultivation. I think I have presented my point of view reasonably clearly enough, so I will leave it at that.

[Ya Mu]

What is neigong?

 

I see a fair bit of apparent misunderstanding about this term, so I thought I would just try to clarify the meanings and usage of this term based on my own personal understanding and experience. I know my post here won't likely really make any difference, and many people will continue to misunderstand and argue over such terms and concepts, but what the heck. Maybe someone will take away something useful from this.

 

Neigong can be both a generic term meaning general internal cultivation practices, or it can mean internal skill(s) developed from internal cultivation, and it is also used to sometimes indicate very specialized practices and skills of internal cultivation. When it comes to practices such as qigong, neigong, and Chinese martials arts, (and probably Chinese medicine and other traditional related systems/practices as well), my experience has been that different teachers of different systems can use and define different terms quite differently. This is a key point that I think is often misunderstood by many Westerners or by anyone in general in modern times. Other than the very generic meaning of terms like qigong and neigong, the way these and many various related terms and concepts are used in different traditional systems and by different teachers can vary a lot in my experience. What I have just said in this paragraph can't be emphasized enough, IMO. If someone is insisting that qigong or neigong means only some very narrow set of practices or some very specific way of doing something, etc., then it is a pretty good indication that they have no real understanding about the actual broad range of practices and viewpoints and systems which make use of such terms and concepts.

 

Terms and concepts including everything from jing, qi, shen, qigong, neigong, meridians, channels, energy centers, soul, spirit, five elements, internal, external, etc., etc., can be viewed and used quite differently from system to system and teacher to teacher. These terms simply do not seem to have the kind of more rigid and strict definitions which many terms and concepts can have in modern times. Ask five different teachers from five different traditional systems what is qigong and neigong, and what is qi, and what is internal and what is external, etc., and you may very well get quite a wide variation in answers. If you think that this indicates that one teacher is right, and all the others are wrong, then you are misunderstanding the traditional way that such concepts are viewed and used IMO. Rather than viewing things in such a rigid and limiting way, I think it is more meaningful to understand that such terms are often just not used in any sort of fixed and rigid way, and each teacher will use them in a way that makes sense to them, and which suits their own purposes and their own point of view. What is important is the underlying experience, and what are the benefits that any particular system can really give. Getting hung up on terms and concepts seems to be primarily due to trying to impose modern ways of looking at and approaching things on more ancient or traditional ways of looking at and approaching things. The two approaches do not necessarily mesh. If you think about all these terms and concepts related to neigong/internal cultivation in a much more plastic and pliable and loose fashion, then you have a better chance of starting to delve into the 'ancient' way which things were viewed. What is important is the underlying experience and the specific type of results which a certain system focuses on developing, and think of the terms and concepts which are used to 'explain' such things more just as guide lines that help give some idea of what the system is about. The terms and concepts and viewpoints give some sense of what a practice is about and how things are 'explained' at a surface level , but the actual practice itself is based on developing the internal experience and skills which may not actually be able to be described well in words and concepts at all.

 

From what I have seen there are a lot of widely varying practices that may fall under the term 'neigong', everything from health exercises and stretching, foundational practices which build a good foundation for other practices, to very specific internal cultivation practices and very specific skills development, to meditation practices focused on self cultivation. Some practices are good for health and longevity, some practices develop very special and even extraordinary skills, and some practices are primarily for self cultivation. All might use the term 'neigong'. Some practices may be in general good for anyone, some practices may be potentially dangerous, or even harmful in the long run, and some practices are exclusive to a particular teacher or system and can only be learned through accomplished teachers in that particular system directly from teacher to student.

 

Because some of these sorts of terms can have a certain mystique about them, certain teachers these days may adopt such terms as a way of marketing what they are selling as something very special and exceptional or 'high level', but if you travel around and meet teachers from various systems you will likely see that there are a wide variety of different practices which may develop quite different types of skills or which may have quite different purposes, and trying to compare them is like trying to compare apples and oranges and potatoes. Which is better, and which is 'higher level'? How do you measure higher level? With a measuring tape or ruler? There are many different systems which can have various purposes, and which can take widely differing approaches. Some are focused on health, some on martial arts skill, some are focused on healing and therapy, and some are focused on self cultivation, and some are multi purpose. I will say again that some practices out there can be potentially dangerous or harmful, and not all teachers out there are really qualified or teaching a 'good' system, so use caution and some good sense when seeking out teachers and practices.

 

Good points. "all sorts of internal cultivation practices and the skills they develop". Yeah, this should cover it.

 

A bit though, about confusion of the term "high level". I have spoken here extensively about how I use the term, and while I will grant that you are absolutely correct in that many use the term in marketing and have no understanding, some few have learned the term due to it was taught that way in China where they studied and it has nothing whatsoever to do with marketing and everything to do with vibratory state. It can mean more than one thing as in "high level skill" probably being a western majority interpretation but this is far from the actual meaning in other uses. In this thread posts #29 and #38 I explain how the term is utilized in Classical Chinese Medicine. In terms of neigong, the same definitions apply in that a person cannot strive for the type of healing described without understanding properties of vibration. So "high level" would mean ability to tune into and manipulate particular vibratory states. One thing is for sure, "high level" is not something that can be faked as it is not dependent on what the teacher says but on what the student accomplishes with their energy body for themselves to know and understand. In other words, if a person has never felt "high level" energetics it would be impossible for them to have any real concept of what it is; it is only through that personal experiencing that the meaning becomes clear. And whether the term be qigong or neigong they both absolutely have gong(fu) - time&effort - involved. So practice is required. Depending on the reading of a book without the practice gets one nowhere besides to confusion land.

[NotVoid]

Hi Ya Mu. I understand what you are saying, but I have to say from my own experience various traditional practices have this aspect of refining the qi (or energy bodies, if you look at it this way), once a person really gets into the system and begins to see the whole picture. I don't think it is exclusive to just one system or tradition. Cultivating higher level qi or associated states is really not so exclusive at all in regards to traditional systems in my own view. Many people these days may not ever progress in any practice or system much beyond the more basic levels of improving health, but this doesn't necessarily mean that higher attainment is not possible in those systems. If it is an authentic tradition, there are likely accomplished teachers in the tradition who passed that system on. I think finding a good teacher of an authentic system may not be so easy these days however.

 

 

My advice to people would be to check out various teachers in person that are accessible to you, and get some first hand experience with what they teach and do, and see what the teacher is really like, and then after checking out various things, decide on something that seems suitable. Don't worry about systems which are not accessible for whatever reason, and instead check out the teachers which are available to you. Find something suitable and then practice that diligently.

 

Edited April 1, 2014 by NotVoid

[Ya Mu]

Good points. But you are speaking in terms of attaining the higher level within a system and I am speaking in terms of vibratory states. Without exposure to these it would be very difficult to understand what they are so any perception of what they are is meaningless until one has been exposed to them. Some systems really are "higher level", are traditionally taught that way, due to the vibrations they start with and my point was that this doesn't have anything to do with marketing and everything to do with what they are. All qigong is not equal. Never has been.

[ChiDragon]

Edited April 1, 2014 by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

So, where do we start before jumping to the higher level.....???

Edited April 1, 2014 by ChiDragon

[Ya Mu]

So, where do we start before jumping to the higher level.....???

Read the thread I linked to above to get understanding.

Start is studying and practicing a system.

"..practice is required. Depending on the reading of a book without the practice gets one nowhere besides to confusion land."

[GrandmasterP]

+1

Books or CDs and such are all very well but only a teacher can correct and guide you 'there and then'.

Problem with book learning and all is that mistakes can be compounded without the learner knowing they are doing something wrong because there is nobody there to point out the right or 'best' way.

Also a teacher gets to know the learner so s/he can differentiate delivery to suit each individual.

Everybody learns at a different pace and in different ways .

A good teacher knows how to differentiate so that all learners benefit equally.

Edited April 2, 2014 by GrandmasterP