What is Taoism? (Seriously)

[Brian]

I had two Witnesses visit this morning and I told them a little bit about Taoism. They appeared to enjoy hearing about it but I could tell they were anxious to leave.

Had a friend years ago who liked to invite them in and then start telling them about Marduk, just to watch them squirm.

[silent thunder]

I had two Witnesses visit this morning and I told them a little bit about Taoism. They appeared to enjoy hearing about it but I could tell they were anxious to leave.

 

 

Had a friend years ago who liked to invite them in and then start telling them about Marduk, just to watch them squirm.

 

I will usually go out on the porch and talk for a while and share my views on the Cosmos when the witnesses roll around.

I used to get all uppity and snarl, but life is too short for that shit now and these days I'm genuinely interested to see what put them on their path and to answer any questions they have about my views.

 

I get regular visits from two different teams, one is a pair of sisters who look like Cameron Diaz doubles, we usually talk about their relationship with their father, which is what led them to their faith. He was abusive.

 

The other regular is a very genuine man who found a comfortable place in the witnesses about half way through his life.

 

We have a conversation, share some insights and smiles and then say farewell.

All in all, very pleasant random guests.

[Brian]

 

 

 

I will usually go out on the porch and talk for a while and share my views on the Cosmos when the witnesses roll around.

I used to get all uppity and snarl, but life is too short for that shit now and these days I'm genuinely interested to see what put them on their path and to answer any questions they have about my views.

 

I get regular visits from two different teams, one is a pair of sisters who look like Cameron Diaz doubles, we usually talk about their relationship with their father, which is what led them to their faith. He was abusive.

 

The other regular is a very genuine man who found a comfortable place in the witnesses about half way through his life.

 

We have a conversation, share some insights and smiles and then say farewell.

All in all, very pleasant random guests.

I always treat them with kindness and respect, too.

 

Guess I treat pretty much everyone that way, really, now that I think about it..

[beyonder]

Daoism is one of the Hundred Schools of Thought. It's not a religion. Nor is it a philosophy. It's a school of thought, with various sub divisions, created over time. Is it religious? Yes, some schools are. Wudang daoism, for instance. Is it philosophical? Yes, sometimes. Just take a look at the essays of Yi Kang and the other sages. Does it pertain to the Work, as in, a distilation of the soul through rituals? Yes, sometimes, as exhibited in "The Secret of the Golden Flower".

 

These are all historical and intellectual ways of understanding an idea. I suggest not trying to understand daoism as an "idea", but rather, as an ability to return to ones unsullied, natural form (equate hexagram 25 of the I Ching), and in this way act in accordance with the flow of the universe ("the will of heaven"). I don't call it an ability in any subtle sense, but simply in it being "able".

 

"Yin Xi of the Mountainpass said:

"When you're not stuck within yourself,

All things will reveal themselves to you.

Move like water,

Be silent as a mirror,

Answer like an echo."

 

- Liezi, translated by Jan de Meyer (in turn translated by me. So, yeah), p. 132.

 

Intentionality can't keep it at a distance, non-intentionality can't bring it closer. Only those who understand it through silence and give shape to it through their own nature understand the Way.

 

-Ibid.

 

"Those who understand this can hide if they feel it appropriate, or they can act if they feel it appropriate. Listening to the creatures, he creates, while shining in his emotionlessness. Those who don't understand this will only be guided by their own desires and only follow their ears and eyes. They will waste their days without ever reaching insight or understanding.

Who can glow without stagnation and entrust themselves to the natural harmony? To such a one, the nameless beginning will be shown, in the midsts of that what can't be seen."

 

-Wunengzi, translated by Jan de Meyer, p. 64

Edited May 26, 2014 by beyonder

[宁]

What is the benefit to a culture that refuses to look beyond its own borders?

 

Why would they need to? Religions that don't dismiss the practical and mundane, such as the two we're talking about are complete systems, you have all you need in there. Christians (open minded ones, not fundies) have to look to their neighbours alot, because we lost much of what helped us to deal with things we conjured up the gods for in the first place: the mundane, the daily wear and tear.... eschatology is important, I agree, yet the space between birth and death is an immense no man's land, there's very little in the Bible to help you with that.

 

If the religion you were born into were complete and addressed all the possible problems you may face in life in a positive and efficient manner (in their respective culture...), would you still look to the neighbours?

If your partner offers you what you need in life from a partner, would you still flirt with strangers?

Edited May 27, 2014 by 宁

[manitou]

Why would they need to? Religions that don't dismiss the practical and mundane, such as the two we're talking about are complete systems, you have all you need in there. Christians (open minded ones, not fundies) have to look to their neighbours alot, because we lost much of what helped us to deal with things we conjured up the gods for in the first place: the mundane, the daily wear and tear.... eschatology is important, I agree, yet the space between birth and death is an immense no man's land, there's very little in the Bible to help you with that.

 

If the religion you were born into were complete and addressed all the possible problems you may face in life in a positive and efficient manner (in their respective culture...), would you still look to the neighbours?

If your partner offers you what you need in life from a partner, would you still flirt with strangers?

 

 

You mean I should stop flirting with strangers??

 

Your point is well taken. You are right - there is no need, if all is there. But at some point, Life becomes the Teacher. One may be exposed to things within another culture and there may be much benefit to it, to understanding it from a different POV. There is a place that we can sit that enables us to interact with all belief systems, the place of the One.

 

It seems that Life gives us what we need for growth, one day at a time. Personally, I draw from many traditions on any given day - don't think I'd like it much if I felt the need to stay within a particular structure.

 

There's something real nice about having a quilt of our own making. But that was just my path. You are absolutely right - to stick with one lineage of thought and see it through to its conclusion would certainly get you there. As long as it's a path that included self-realization.

[liminal_luke]

I had two Witnesses visit this morning and I told them a little bit about Taoism. They appeared to enjoy hearing about it but I could tell they were anxious to leave.

 

Here in Zacatecas, Mexico the Witnesses approach me on the street and ask if I speak English. When I say yes, they proceed with their spiel. I asked them once what the deal was with the English thing, don´t Spanish speaking people need saving too? They explained that their Spanish language service was already full, but they still had room in their new English language service for new converts.

 

For some reason, all the prostelitizing types (and there are many) like to hang out in the downtown Starbucks. Guess they go where the heathens are. Anyway, when two nicely dressed women approached me having my morning coffee and asked if I spoke English I knew what was up. I said that yes, I did, but I had a personal policy against talking about spiritual matters in Starbucks. If they wanted to chat, perhaps they could share their favorite mole recipes? Now, that´s a subject that would of interested me.

 

Incredibly, they wouldn´t be deterred so easily. Even claimed that their religion wasn´t really "spiritual" so sharing their literature and such didn´t violate my no-spiritual-conversation rule. I asked if it involved Jesus or the Bible and, well, there wasn´t really any way to weasle out of that one. I explained that in my view Bible talk counted as spiritual and sent them on their way.

 

Liminal

Edited May 27, 2014 by liminal_luke

[Brian]

LOL

[silent thunder]

Here in Zacatecas, Mexico the Witnesses approach me on the street and ask if I speak English. When I say yes, they proceed with their spiel. I asked them once what the deal was with the English thing, don´t Spanish speaking people need saving too? They explained that their Spanish language service was already full, but they still had room in their new English language service for new converts.

 

For some reason, all the prostelitizing types (and there are many) like to hang out in the downtown Starbucks. Guess they go where the heathens are. Anyway, when two nicely dressed women approached me having my morning coffee and asked if I spoke English I knew what was up. I said that yes, I did, but I had a personal policy against talking about spiritual matters in Starbucks. If they wanted to chat, perhaps they could share their favorite mole recipes? Now, that´s a subject that would of interested me.

 

Incredibly, they wouldn´t be deterred so easily. Even claimed that their religion wasn´t really "spiritual" so sharing their literature and such didn´t violate my no-spiritual-conversation rule. I asked if it involved Jesus or the Bible and, well, there wasn´t really any way to weasle out of that one. I explained that in my view Bible talk counted as spiritual and sent them on their way.

 

Liminal

That is hysterical!

[宁]

You mean I should stop flirting with strangers??

 

Your point is well taken. You are right - there is no need, if all is there. But at some point, Life becomes the Teacher. One may be exposed to things within another culture and there may be much benefit to it, to understanding it from a different POV. There is a place that we can sit that enables us to interact with all belief systems, the place of the One.

 

It seems that Life gives us what we need for growth, one day at a time. Personally, I draw from many traditions on any given day - don't think I'd like it much if I felt the need to stay within a particular structure.

 

There's something real nice about having a quilt of our own making. But that was just my path. You are absolutely right - to stick with one lineage of thought and see it through to its conclusion would certainly get you there. As long as it's a path that included self-realization.

 

Religion in fact (or thought system as others prefer it called) offers you a means to interpret what happens to you.

The more systems you mix up, the more confused the intepretations are, because even if they overlap on some points, there's alot of nuance that doesn't, the Devil is in the details i guess; so at some point it could be counterproductive...

 

By all means, look at the neighbours if you like to, I only meant to explain why others won't.

 

But I do, my nose is up their picket fences all the time, just because I can't take either of them too seriously. I just take care not to switch paradigms too casually, and respect them for what they are.

[Rara]

 

 

What I've been noticing in China, in both Chinese Taoist and Indian Hindu communities, is that they always refer to their training as being part of their faith/national culture. Much has been interationalized, I agree. However when I proposed the Chinese Taoists to learn some Yoga, I got the same reaction as when I proposed the Hindu Yoga practitioners to learn some Taiji: polite smiles.

 

In the West we treat these practices as collectibles, I was so embarrased, I realized I was acting like a kid trying to exchange toys...

Haha...

 

I like that when I got to my Wing Chun class, we're all a bunch of white boys. Next door is the Chinese, playing badminton.

[GrandmasterP]

How to put this politely.

It is not meant judgementally merely as an honest observation.

There is a 'Tibetan' Buddhist sect centre none too far away from us.

They have a rather spiffy veggie cafe we like to visit whenever we are in that area.

They only have robed 'nuns' the other workers just wear regular clothes.

We have been going there a few years now and have seen several 'nuns' over that time.

All the nuns are European ladies there are no Tibetans at all either nuns or ordinary staff, never have been.

To a nun, each nun down there has been of that type where if not in saffron robes then one could easily imagine them wearing sensible shoes or Doc Martens along with husky and practical work duds.

Ladies who, with the best will in the world no doubt; come across as extremely brusque towards gentlemen whilst at the same time being warmly considerate to said gentlemens' female dining partners.

Edited May 28, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Marblehead]

Yeah, that was done pretty politely.

[Rara]

Yep. A lot of role play required to be taken seriously. Or laughed at.

 

I've stopped acting wise. I know I'm wise anyway

 

No more 24/7 "acting" how I perceive a daoist to be...too busy just doing my thing. It's more fun...and more daoist!

[Rara]

It's very liberating stopping daily full lotus training...for me. Been a fascinating journey. In one respect, it all kept me out of trouble and in a good meditation practice.

 

But then I reminded myself that I wasn't born into a full lotus...so why would I need to extract it from an alien culture?

[fizix]

The instant you attempt to convey "Taoism" with words, you have FAILED in everyway to truly define..no, no, to EXPERIENCE it. It is like teaching Infinite dimension Quantum DRAGON Physics to a 1 dimensional point - not even a line, or a frog being (not discrediting their inherent wisdom) but just a ---,.. =_- a point (a non-sentient one at that).. it will only bring you further from the truth! will only divide you hitherto language-induced 3rd eye negative baggage ILLUUUSSIIIOONN DELUSION!!

watashi wa ooki sakega suki desu ne wa ooki baga arigato! atsui desu ne

nidori clear - out

Edited May 29, 2014 by fizix

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

The isness of isness. Taoism.

[manitou]

isness + isness = suchness?

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

The isness of isness is the suchness of being.