Does Dan Tien translate as 'belly'?

[GrandmasterP]

What does Dan Tien translate as in Chinese please?

Is it 'belly'?

I just read something in Chadwick that seems to imply that it is.

Many thanks.

[Apech]

It means elixir field or pill field ...

[soaring crane]

Short answer:

 

Dan = elixir

Tien = field

 

There are three major ones, two of which aren't in the gut. It gets more complex than this, of course.

Edited April 6, 2014 by soaring crane

[GrandmasterP]

Should have been more specific in the OP.

Apologies.

Does Dan Tien in Chinese also refer to or is the term ever used colloquially in China to mean 'belly'.

Edited April 6, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[The Prisoner]

Dan/tan is like center or placement

Tien - Heaven; Yang energy; Hard and direct.

 

You can store "Tien" yang energy anywhere, but always best in the belly:)

when you do this good, yin will rise.

[soaring crane]

 

Does Dan Tien in Chinese also refer to or is the term ever used colloquially in China to mean 'belly'.

 

oh, lol. I was on my mobile when I saw your first post and wanted to preface my reply with something like, 'I think you already know this and are probably asking something completely unrelated, but ... ". But, I was on my phone and was truncating my response.

 

Um, I don't know if somewhere in China the term Dantien is used to mean belly, but I srsly doubt it. The word for belly or abdomen is, I think, Duzi or similar. I only know this because I looked it up once. You would need a native Chinese speaker to answer your question fully.

[Friend]

Should have been more specific in the OP.

Apologies.

Does Dan Tien in Chinese also refer to or is the term ever used colloquially in China to mean 'belly'.

Actually the chinese language like to use "puns" and a have a humourous way to use word.

The profane people because of watching many Wuxia movies are expected to call the

belly the Lower Dantien but for cultivators it is depending on their lineage schools defintion.

[GrandmasterP]

Many thanks for those replies.

[ChiDragon]

What does Dan Tien translate as in Chinese please?

Is it 'belly'?

I just read something in Chadwick that seems to imply that it is.

Many thanks.

 

"Sink Chi to the Dan Tian" means abdominal breathing. I let you go from here.

[Andrei]

Nope.

Dan means cinnabar. And Tian means field, like an agricultural field where you sow and reap.

Both words have metaphorical meaning.

the cinnabar is a red substance which is found in the earth, and by cooking into a metallurgical cauldron you obtain mercury.

Then by cooking mercury in the next cauldron you obtain silver and finally the golden pill or the golden pearl.

Each transformation is done in a different Dan Tian, because there are three Dan Tian-s in each you do a different transformation.

The first transformation is done in the belly because cinnabar comes from earth, and the earth is the metaphor for stomach and guts.

In the guts you naturally produce serotonin by eating tryptophan. If you heat the guts with your breathing the serotonin is "cooked".

This is the first transformation which is collecting the cinnabar. Then you have to mix the cinnabar with the electromagnetic fluid of heart, which is like a fluid metal and by mixing with the serotonin you cook the mercury. You can do that only at the tzu hour because only at that hour the fluid of the heart is exiting and flowing through the channels like a dragon exits its cave and flies through clouds. By mixing with the electromagnetic fluid of the heart the serotonin becomes ionized and permeates the blood-brain barrier and enters the cerebrospinal fluid, and from there floods the pineal gland where is the third Dan Tian where is supposed to convert into melatonin and DMT and other hormones like G rowth hormones in the pituitary and many others. These hormones have immense healing power and they are the elixir of immortality. Melatonin is the most potent antioxidant in the body, together with GH rejuvenates all the tissues, and you look younger. Once you obtain the Golden pill or the Pill of Immortality you put it back in the Earth, you sow it and then at the next lunar cycle you reap more, because the substances multiply. This is obtaining the first level of immortality which is Earth immortal.

Edited April 7, 2014 by Andrei

[soaring crane]

Yes, but it's just more useful to refer to it as elixir. The real thing is toxic.

Edited April 7, 2014 by soaring crane

[ChiDragon]

上丹田是頭部

Upper Dan Tian is the head section

 

中丹田是胸部

Middle Dan Tian is the chest section

 

下丹田是腹部

Lower Dan Tian is the abdominal section

[king]

You can do that only at the tzu hour because only at that hour the fluid of the heart is exiting and flowing through the channels like a dragon exits its cave and flies through clouds.

When is this "tzu hour"?

[ChiDragon]

When is this "tzu hour"?

 

It is 子時 from 11:00 pm to 1:00 am.

[Andrei]

Yes but the elixir is the final substance after the whole alchemical process, and Dan is the prime substance which is not the chemical cinnabar which is poisonous, but Dan is a metaphorical idea about what happens inside the body.

 

And by the way, if you read the Prakriti your Ayurvedic constitution book by Robert Svoboda, there you can find description of how in yogic tradition are prepared pills out of mercury (the real one, not the metaphoric one) for various treatments. But the preparation is very careful and takes a very long time.

[traveler]

Andrei, that's as good an explanation as I've ever seen. Where on the Kabbalah tree of life would you place these steps?

[Andrei]

I think Yesod is lower dantien, Tiphareth is middle dantien and Daath is upper dantien. Malkuth is either the feet or the hui yin depending on if you stand or sit. Kether is above the head. But still i think the Sephiroth is corresponding to a different level of reality, or different dimension. If you are familiar with teosophical literature, they say that between physical world and spiritual world (and by spiritual I mean higher spiritual not the world of ghosts, spirits and daemons whatever that may mean) there are at least 3 other levels or dimensions or densities. First is Etheric plane, which corresponds to the hidden energies of nature, elementals and other beings. At this level alchemy operates with the elements, you build dantients and cook elixirs and do a lot of magic. Then over this level is the Astral when you build a second body and exit from the physical body and you fly on a broom or a carpet or a fire wheel or whatever and visit the astral worlds, and speak with ancestors and ascended masters, aliens and what not. Then above or beyond this level si the Mental plane and I believe this plane corresponds to the sephiroth (or qilipoth if you prefer that route) which ultimately leads you to Kether which is you Higher Self. This is how I see it.

 

 

Later edit to add the image

 

Edited April 17, 2014 by Andrei

[traveler]

Cycles within cycles. Each time the work is "complete" the results are planted back in the earth to grow into the next cycle.

 

Quote Andrei: Once you obtain the Golden pill or the Pill of Immortality you put it back in the Earth, you sow it and then at the next lunar cycle you reap more, because the substances multiply.

 

I like your way of putting this a lot.

 

There is a key to being immortal and it is Love, an open heart, a heart full of God. But there is more. Love begets Love, and each turn of the cycle brings a deeper Love than before, a stronger and truer vibration of that Universal Power. (unnamed)

 

Is there an end to the creative cycles? I am beginning to think not. Where can I read more about this Cinnabar-mercury-silver-gold explanation?

 

Andrei said: You can do that only at the tzu hour because only at that hour the fluid of the heart is exiting and flowing through the channels like a dragon exits its cave and flies through clouds.

 

Please explain the discrepancy that the heart meridian is active around noon, and the gall bladder meridian is the one active near midnight. I know you will have a good explanation. I feel that the heart is the key and so your statement makes perfect sense to me, except that the heart meridian is active at the opposite end of the day, around noon.

[Zhongyongdaoist]

But still i think the Sephiroth is corresponding to a different level of reality, or different dimension.

I agree with this. Modern Western occultists have a tendency to try to find everything on the Tree of Life, part of the impoverishment of the system which has taken place since the Nineteenth Century. The most useful Western system in this case is Geomancy which has a lot of interesting correlations and I have used as a cross cultural bridge for decades. People have the potential for many types of bodies that instantiate different cosmological systems. I don't have much time to post on this right now, but will later if I can.

[Andrei]

Hi traveler,

 

The alchemical language is highly symbolic, so you really need to stretch the reasoning to connect ideas. But if you really want to dive in the alchemical literature here are some free resources:

 

http://wangfengyi.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/neichingtu1.pdf

http://www.charleschace.com/pdfs/Xing_Ming_Gui_Zhi-BurtonRose.pdf

 

Understanding reality (wu zhen pian) by Chang Po-tuan translated by Thomas Cleary

 

Also books by Eva Wong:

 

Nourishing the essence of life - the outer, inner and secret teachings of Taoism

Cultivating stillness - a Taoist manual for transforming body and mind

Cultivating the energy of life (Hui Ming Ching)

The Tao of Health, Longevity and Immortality - the teachings of immortals Chung and Lu

 

And Ling Bao Tong Zhi Neng Nei Gong Shu which contains three important texts:

Zhong Lu Delivery Tao series

The secret of the Golden Flower

Wu Pian Ling Wen - five Soul articles

Edited April 15, 2014 by Andrei

[traveler]

Thanks for the book list. Much appreciated. What I am really interested in is what you said about the tzu hour. Is it the heart meridian or the gall bladder meridian that is being targeted by running the fourfold orbit in the tzu hour? My intuition tells me it is the heart's true fire that is being awakened.

[Andrei]

Please explain the discrepancy that the heart meridian is active around noon, and the gall bladder meridian is the one active near midnight. I know you will have a good explanation. I feel that the heart is the key and so your statement makes perfect sense to me, except that the heart meridian is active at the opposite end of the day, around noon.

 

I was amazed too by this question, because the alchemical texts are a quite contradictory. I could not understand this because we try to make sense with our ordinary mind. The ordinary mind sees only one reality when in the " reality " there are other realities overlapped on this reality. Unfortunately we don't see this overlap between worlds, but if you believe many mystics from various traditions, these other realities are as real as this one. Now, this sounds like a disclaimer, and I read a lot of books and I tried to make a sense out of them, and always I had some skepticism about what people describe as "real". But when i asked one of my best friends who is clairvoyant what he sees this is what I get as an answer: "I see a fluid that is coming out of the heart that flows through meridians and tissues. It looks like a silvery fluid and has a violet hue. - Is this the Qi from the heart? I think so... It exits from the heart and is flowing all the time. What does this Qi at noon? - it is more intense. - what does it at night? It is still flowing but not so intense and has a different path. - what kind of path? - at noon goes up, to the head mostly but at night goes down towards the earth. - Ok, this must be what they call "mercury", it is flowing, it is metallic and shiny it can't be anything else. But what about the heart color? - it has the same color as you know. - what color? - it is red. - but the heart chakra is green. - it is also green but in another layer. And it is bluish-white shiny in a more profound layer. - so it has all those colors? - yes but on different layers. What about the kidneys? Kidneys have the colors as you know, they are blue in one layer and red-brownish in another layer. What about the fluid? Is there a fluid that exits the kidneys? - Yes it is, but is not like a fluid is more like a smoke, a grey-dark smoke. - Ok so how this smoke circulates? It circulates also through tissues and channels but on different paths than the fluid from the heart. During the day the smoke goes down and exits through bottom and feet and sinks into earth. - what about during the night? - during the night goes up towards the head. - ok so when is more intense this smoke? - it is during the night more intense, especially at midnight. - ok, i think this is what they call "lead". In the texts they say that mercury is not Li fire from the heart, is the essence of the heart, and lead is not Kan water of the kidneys, is the essence of the kidneys. Also they say that mercury and lead are called tiger and dragon which copulates only at midnight. They say that the tiger is not the Qi of the lung, is the essence of Kan, and the dragon is not the Qi of liver, is the essence of heart. So I think that these two energies merge together at midnight because the one from the heart descends and the one from the kidneys ascends naturally, but what does make them to move? Why they go up during the day and down during night? Then it struck me! Because these energies are moved by the Sun! Because they say in texts Yang ascends to Heaven and Yin descends to the Earth. Actually is the Sun who attracts the yang fluid and is repulsing the yin smoke. And only during the night when the Sun is on the other side of the Earth attracts the yang fluid down, and repels the yin smoke up. And this is why you have to sit at midnight so that these two energies mix together. This is what they call Kan and Li, and copulation of Dragon and Tiger.

[traveler]

I agree with your explanation. It makes sense and it feels right intuitively. Eric Yudelove describes ascending jing as smoke-like. I can't recall where I read this next bit, but the ascending earth and descending heavenly energies were described as meeting in the body at different points, depending on where the work is needed. In relation to our discussion of the tzu hour, this would indicate different times of the night for this meeting which would activate a healing in the meridian that is moving at the time. There is a paragraph in Taoist Yoga which gives a clue, perhaps. Here it is:

 

When the penis stands during sleep at night this moment is called the hour tsu and then it is most important to stop all thoughts while gathering (ts'ai ch'u) the generative force (for sublimation). The gathering method differs with the age of each individual. [Footnote: According to the ancients the first half of the day is positive and the second half is negative. The first half begins at the hour tsu (between 11 p.m. and 1 a.m.) when the penis stands of itself during sleep in spite of the absence of thoughts and dreams. At the start of Tao practice, it is important to avail oneself of this moment when the penis stands to gather the generative force for sublimation, for the gathering of it during the negative half of the day is ineffective.] (Taoist Yoga, 2.10, by Charles Luk)

 

 

I wish I could read and understand the original in Chinese. But, the English translation here indicates that the tzu hour begins when the penis stands without provocation. "When the penis stands during sleep at night this moment is called the hour tsu ..." If it stands at 6:00 AM one morning during the time when the stomach meridian is active, then at that moment the energies of earth and heaven are meeting there for rejuvenation. Quote: "It is important to avail oneself of this moment when the penis stands to gather the generative force for sublimation, for the gathering of it during the negative half of the day is ineffective." This indicates that the moment for sublimation is anytime during the positive half of the day. Since the moment for sublimation is named as the tzu hour, this suggests that the penis may become stiff any time during the first half of the day and that this is the correct time for sublimation that day.

 

I could be wrong, which is most likely when butting up against traditional interpretations of this stuff, but my experience shows me that if I am being celibate, my penis gets stiff without provocation in the morning at various times, different each day. I run the orbit about nine times and it retracts. The time this occurs is the correct moment for sublimation that day.

 

This idea is what your post #10 awoke in me. And I got excited because I thought I was seeing some light shed on this subject of the tzu hour.

Edited April 15, 2014 by traveler

[GrandmasterP]

Steady on lads.

All I asked was if Dan Tien might translate as 'belly' if only colloquially.

Seems like it might do, someplaces, sometimes.

Job jobbed.

Where does Kabalism and Theosophy come into it apart from north of the neck of anyone who chooses it to do so?

By the same abstract extrapolation I could posit...

Dan Tien

Implies

Belly

Implies

Dinner

Therefore

Dan Tien means 'dinner'.

 

It doesn't, anymore than Kabalism equates with anything beyond its own self- referential parameters.

Take your pick on Kabalism...

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=tree+of+life+and+kabbalah+images&site=webhp&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=EKJOU92XI6bN7AbZroCABw&ved=0CGUQ7Ak&biw=1024&bih=644

 

 

Everyone else and his mystical dog seems to have done so.

Edited April 16, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Andrei]

Nope.

Dantien

Implies

Belly

Implies

Pregnancy

Implies

Birth

Implies

Life

Implies

No death

Implies

Immortality

Implies

Ethernal life

Implies

I am the truth and the way and the life

But yes dinner implies life too

Edited April 17, 2014 by Andrei