RiverSnake Posted April 7, 2014 (edited) I began to formulate a proper response to this thread....but It became apparent that the OP has no idea what the heck he is talking about.....IMO. So there. Â My 2 cents, Peace Edited April 7, 2014 by OldChi 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted April 7, 2014 (edited) I'm more the leave no stone unturned sort . I think that is what got me into it in the first place    'Ohhh look! A baby shoggoth! Edited April 7, 2014 by Nungali 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted April 7, 2014 I began to formulate a proper response to this thread....but It became apparent that the OP has no idea what the heck he is talking about.....IMO. So there.  My 2 cents, Peace  Forget him, he was just a catalyst 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Captain Mar-Vell Posted April 7, 2014 ... Ninja Scrolls. ... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zerostao Posted April 7, 2014 (edited) old chi, you could be right about that, in either case he has left the arena,,but i think this could be a useful thread. someone like me who has not ventured into the taoist magic sub forum, there is the note to stay on topic, here in this thread i can ask my questions a little more relaxed, i think nungali, is the brand of magic you play with more with the conscious mind or unconscious mind? Â well i tried to multi quote, that didnt go to well lol Edited April 7, 2014 by zerostao 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Captain Mar-Vell Posted April 7, 2014 ... Is it jus' me? Â Or can I hear someone laffin'? ... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RiverSnake Posted April 7, 2014 (edited) I know I'm right. Magic in some ways is the focused application of the natural principles of the universe. For example, a thought, we all think thoughts every day. But in some magic the idea is to put as much focus and intention into a single thought as possible to manifest things we need or want. Â Is this separate from the Tao? No.....thoughts are part of existence. In this context magic is simply using the rules in an empowered and focused way. Magic is simply knowing and understanding the rules and power of existence and using them skillfully rather than living haphazardly with our energies as most people do. Magic is not dirty and it's not clean it's empowered action colored with ones intent. Magic can be balanced or unbalanced depending on the person and the intent....but one things for sure....magic can change your life for better or worse. Â If your interested in understanding magic Zerostao I would recommend Magical Knowledge by Josephine McCarthy and Initiation into Hermetics by Franz Bardon. Those are the two books that have been most influential in my understanding....ofcourse there are many others as well. Â My 2 cents, Peace Edited April 7, 2014 by OldChi 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maheosphet Posted April 7, 2014 (edited) Magic is generally looked as as expelling stored energy in a certain fashion, but cultivating the energy is just as magical. Â Why the opposition to the term draining? If you don't practice in magic then how would you know if it is draining or not? Â Even if you are walking around, you are draining your energy, of which there is a limited amount that requires replenishing. Edited April 7, 2014 by maheosphet 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maheosphet Posted April 7, 2014 (edited) Yes, he wrote it down for us to see today, time traveling magick ^.^ Â How do you think he remains here to be considered today when he died a long time ago? Â I guess it just depends on how you choose to perceive it. Â I think if you can see something being wrong and then look at it again and see it being right, then it is both and neither. And you share in a free perspective, instead of a fixed one. Edited April 7, 2014 by maheosphet Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RiverSnake Posted April 7, 2014 Depends what "part" of Tao you are going for. Postheavenly attainments? Or preheavenly attainment. To be one with the Tao, you have to give up all of your magical, magickal practices. Let me ask a question. Did Lao Tzu practice magic?  If I ever get to that point and I hear a big booming voice say....."To be one with the TAO you must give up all magical practices!!".....then I will let you know  . Many would consider chi Kung a kind of magick....when we meditate on the LDT or when we pull mixed energetics from our surroundings are we not using focused intent and will in order to build energy within and without us?.........in my definition this would be considered Magick. Though when people here the word Magick they simply think of winning the lotto with a fling of our thoughts.  My 2 cents, Peace 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zerostao Posted April 7, 2014 "How do you think he remains here to be considered today when he died a long time ago?" i think it is a nature thing an energy thing a spirit thing 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maheosphet Posted April 7, 2014 (edited) Well, then perhaps we should define magic in a way that excludes spirits and energy? Â Or just define it period. Â I think a lot of people may consider such things as magic. An immortal spirit seems kinda magical. Edited April 7, 2014 by maheosphet Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zerostao Posted April 7, 2014 an immortal spirit is as natural as nature itself. @old chi, perhaps rainbowvein is suggesting that by playing the magickal practices you will never here the voice of Tao? idk, but is my wisdom greater than natures, or spirit realm or the Tao that my urgings to have magick work for me, somehow greater than the magic that nature is already providing? I am not saying there isn't magic in this world but what I think is that I am better off letting nature handle this on her own than me prodding her to do so. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RiverSnake Posted April 7, 2014 (edited) an immortal spirit is as natural as nature itself. @old chi, perhaps rainbowvein is suggesting that by playing the magickal practices you will never here the voice of Tao? idk, but is my wisdom greater than natures, or spirit realm or the Tao that my urgings to have magick work for me, somehow greater than the magic that nature is already providing? I am not saying there isn't magic in this world but what I think is that I am better off letting nature handle this on her own than me prodding her to do so. I agree. Nature knows what it's doing, you can work against nature, with nature or simply be neutral. We are a part of nature and part of being humans is we have a Will and Freedom....much of learning I think is learning to harmonize are mundane as well as magical actions with the cosmos as a whole. It is important to engage and shift life and are lives towards greater harmony rather than just sitting by and saying nature will take care of us.....IME....that is not the way life works and is a heavily ungrounded approach.....we must exercise are creative abilities in a powerful and balanced way in order to explore and experience life as blissfully as possible....and in order to walk are own separate paths. Â Life requires effort and the exertion of ones Will.....Magick is to exert ones will with intent and intensity much like someone whom is enflamed with prayer or caught up in a focused trance as they paint a painting. Magick is not divorced from reality....but the intimate matrix underpinning reality. Â My 2 cents, Peace Edited April 7, 2014 by OldChi 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brian Posted April 7, 2014 If life requires (such) effort, is there space too, to allow for effortlessness of Tao? Â What effort does a garden bulb, blooming in her rightful Spring season, require, to unfold her petals? How does she know when it is Spring? She listens. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydog Posted April 7, 2014 ... Is it jus' me? Â Or can I hear someone laffin'? ... Â Â haha Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BaguaKicksAss Posted April 7, 2014 This guy makes it work somehow  http://www.qigongmedicine.com/daoist-books/ 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GrandmasterP Posted April 7, 2014 (edited) Yep that JAJ stuff is magic for sure. I've only read his Medical QiGong book but if ever a guy was the real deal it's Dr J. Â Best ever explanation of the efficacy of mudra/ hand seals/ sigils ( call em whatever you like he says.. they work)that I ever read. Now that is magic anybody can check out by a simple experiment. Do a zazen or a cultivation without hand seal/ mudra one session. Next session do it with. Compare results. Â Nobody can explain that. It's 'magic' , but it works for sure. Edited April 7, 2014 by GrandmasterP 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BaguaKicksAss Posted April 7, 2014 There's another dude who's made it work quite well  Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BaguaKicksAss Posted April 7, 2014 Yep that JAJ stuff is magic for sure. I've only read his Medical QiGong book but if ever a guy was the real deal it's Dr J.  Best ever explanation of the efficacy of mudra/ hand seals/ sigils ( call em whatever you like he says.. they work)that I ever read. Now that is magic anybody can check out by a simple experiment. Do a zazen or a cultivation without hand seal/ mudra one session. Next session do it with. Compare results.  Nobody can explain that. It's 'magic' , but it works for sure.  Wow good point about the mudras!  Or star stepping  Or just keeping certain things in mind.  Or those 8 trigrams...  Speaking of which, bbl . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydog Posted April 7, 2014 Nice posts  Wanna write another post half to clarify my own thoughts  Yep Shamanism has a lot to do with magic  Since everything is connected   There are symbols, objects, chants, positions which have specific energetic effects  Is rubbing a certain flower on your face and being healed a form of magic  How did amazonian natives learn about ayauascha  Theres 80,000 plants,in one small part of the rainforest  To make the medicine one needs to mix two of them in a special way  What are the chances of that, the mushrooms told them how to make ayuascha  they say  How about wearing animal masks  or connecting to certain animals  or going to certain trees for healing purposes  or laughing to open the heart  isnt that kinda magic  or how certain rocks and crystals have certain properties  How about how certain shapes have nergetic power  like the pyramids  like tipis  The ancients all knew about them  Thats why they placed pyramids in certain locations  It heals the world  Thats kinda like magic  Or anyways  changing the subject  people have intentions  all day long  or subconscious ones  magic is a focusing of that more powerfully  examining all aspects of oneselfs  like a martial artist who never fights because they accept their violent side 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zerostao Posted April 7, 2014 Magic is just there, the goal part is up to the practitioner imo. i agree that 'magic' is just there in nature. the practicioner's goal, certainly risk for human error Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zerostao Posted April 7, 2014 (edited) I know I'm right. Magic in some ways is the focused application of the natural principles of the universe. For example, a thought, we all think thoughts every day. But in some magic the idea is to put as much focus and intention into a single thought as possible to manifest things we need or want. Â Is this separate from the Tao? No.....thoughts are part of existence. In this context magic is simply using the rules in an empowered and focused way. Magic is simply knowing and understanding the rules and power of existence and using them skillfully rather than living haphazardly with our energies as most people do. Magic is not dirty and it's not clean it's empowered action colored with ones intent. Magic can be balanced or unbalanced depending on the person and the intent....but one things for sure....magic can change your life for better or worse. Â If your interested in understanding magic Zerostao I would recommend Magical Knowledge by Josephine McCarthy and Initiation into Hermetics by Franz Bardon. Those are the two books that have been most influential in my understanding....ofcourse there are many others as well. Â My 2 cents, Peace your description is of what i have always called concentration. you are saying that magic is a concentrated thought? edit >> i already mentioned intention and will and focus. and my idea about magic is its none of those Edited April 7, 2014 by zerostao 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zerostao Posted April 7, 2014 Nice posts  Wanna write another post half to clarify my own thoughts  Yep Shamanism has a lot to do with magic  Since everything is connected   There are symbols, objects, chants, positions which have specific energetic effects  Is rubbing a certain flower on your face and being healed a form of magic  How did amazonian natives learn about ayauascha  Theres 80,000 plants,in one small part of the rainforest  To make the medicine one needs to mix two of them in a special way  What are the chances of that, the mushrooms told them how to make ayuascha  they say  How about wearing animal masks  or connecting to certain animals  or going to certain trees for healing purposes  or laughing to open the heart  isnt that kinda magic  or how certain rocks and crystals have certain properties  How about how certain shapes have nergetic power  like the pyramids  like tipis  The ancients all knew about them  Thats why they placed pyramids in certain locations  It heals the world  Thats kinda like magic  Or anyways  changing the subject  people have intentions  all day long  or subconscious ones  magic is a focusing of that more powerfully  examining all aspects of oneselfs  like a martial artist who never fights because they accept their violent side i would like to hear flowing hands response to this, he considers himself a shaman i wonder if he also thinks himself a magician? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zerostao Posted April 7, 2014 (edited) mudras and star stepping is energetics. Â i am coming to see that everything is 'magic' and i cannot argue with that. what i call nature ya'll is calling it magic.. wheh old chi says "the intimate matrix underpinning reality" and i liked than entire post by old chi. i would say it is the inconceivable nature of nature edit> and if you say magic is conceivable and manageable, could be , ya'll know more about magic. i already said i have no idea but if that is how your defining magic and you can manipulate it? then there are still natural forces beyond that Edited April 7, 2014 by zerostao 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
