Magick has nothing to do in Tao

[Nungali]

nungali, is the brand of magic you play with more with the conscious mind or unconscious mind?

 

'Play' isnt a word I would use, anyway, prob both. Hard to define specifically as unconscious is not known, once it is it becomes conscience ... or lurks below the surface as 'sub-conscience', it isnt unconscious.

 

Even if one can work to change ones dreams * is that the unconscious? But I think we do have a consciousness active in dreams.

 

Magical practices probably do change the unconscious , but we are not aware of that, only of the effects that filter through to the consciousness.

 

Posts below might explain things further ?

[Nungali]

Magic is generally looked as as expelling stored energy in a certain fashion, but cultivating the energy is just as magical.

 

Why the opposition to the term draining? If you don't practice in magic then how would you know if it is draining or not?

 

Even if you are walking around, you are draining your energy, of which there is a limited amount that requires replenishing.

 

I prefer the term 'redirecting' energy.

 

There is another 'principle' that by redirecting energy, or causing energy to flow ( ie. 'go somewhere' - or even 'circulating' ) instead of 'pooling' creates a different type of 'energy field' ... if it's good energy it will cleanse and invigorate a system (like our Grander water filter that also cleared out our water pipes

 

http://www.granderwater.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=13&Itemid=9 - note ... it came with a 3 year $$$ guarantee , we sent samples to alab every 6 months to qualify results )

 

if you are connected to a loop of energy ... or an 'inexhaustible' supply , energy doesn't get depleted .... only if the circuit is damaged ... 'leakage' is a possibility.

[Nungali]

Though when people here the word Magick they simply think of winning the lotto with a fling of our thoughts. My 2 cents, Peace

 

< flings lotto winning thoughts towards old chi >

 

Lets see what happens (You would have to buy a ticket first though - I'm not that good )

[Nungali]

but is my wisdom greater than natures, or spirit realm or the Tao that my urgings to have magick work for me, somehow greater than the magic that nature is already providing?

 

No. IMO one should try to harmonise with the 'magic that nature is already providing'.

 

I am not saying there isn't magic in this world but what I think is that I am better off letting nature handle this on her own than me prodding her to do so.

 

 

Do you put up an umbrella when you dont want to get wet ?

[Nungali]

If life requires (such) effort, is there space too, to allow for effortlessness of Tao?

 

What effort does a garden bulb, blooming in her rightful Spring season, require, to unfold her petals? How does she know when it is Spring?

 

She listens.

 

http://dancarlsonsonicbloom.com/

[zerostao]

"No. IMO one should try to harmonise with the 'magic that nature is already providing'."

 

i agree

edit> and i remain playful, nonchalant, optimistic

Edited April 7, 2014 by zerostao

[Nungali]

And, as a magician, do I have the right to change her blooming season?

 

Only within certain parameters ... thats what gardeners do. If its too UN natural... nature will address it (with blights, pest invasion, etc )

 

Most of the food we eat isn't 'natural' ... like broccoli isnt natural, in the sense that man changed and developed the plant ; many animals too.

[Nungali]

your description is of what i have always called concentration.

you are saying that magic is a concentrated thought?

edit >> i already mentioned intention and will a

nd focus.

and my idea about magic is its none of those

 

It is part of it ... but not all of it.

 

" To obtain Magical Power, learn to control thought; admit only those ideas that are in harmony with the end desired, and not every stray and contradictory Idea that presents itself.

 

Fixed thought is a means to an end. Therefore pay attention to the power of silent thought and meditation. The material act is but the outward expression of thy thought, and therefore hath it been said that “the thought of foolishness is sin.” Thought is the commencement of action, and if a chance thought can produce much effect, what cannot fixed thought do? "

 

http://hermetic.com/crowley/libers/lib30.html

[Nungali]

i would like to hear flowing hands response to this, he considers himself a shaman i wonder if he also thinks himself a magician?

 

In my experience with shamanism the two are very similar ... but my personal experience with Shamanism is very limited (but maybe the oldest one still extant in the world ? ).

 

Actually it is how I connected deeply and magically with my shamanic teacher, one time I just happened to mention my 'initiated tradition', he hadn't realised such a thing existed (only contact was with religion, New Age hodge-podge, some Wiccans and the vagueness of Masonry. After much discussion we discovered how similar our traditions were .... in their own way.It cemented a long standing friendship and affinity.

[zerostao]

nungali much of what you are saying, i would put under the label of existentialism.

i am very much interested in your aboriginal shaman experiences and insights.

[skydog]

i would like to hear flowing hands response to this, he considers himself a shaman i wonder if he also thinks himself a magician?

 

I dont know consider myself a shaman, although I dont like to say it

 

So basically

 

I go with the flow, of what my intuition, heart and soul says

 

Like spontaneous movement Qigong, I let the light move my body to attain perfect harmony for myself and others

 

But life is like spontaneous movement qigong

 

But some people get too ungrounded

 

Of course maybe theres occasions to rely solely on logic and disregard intuition/heart

 

although I cant think of too many situations

 

Maybe thats the difference between shaman/magician

 

The way of non effort most of the time..

[Nungali]

mudras and star stepping is energetics.

 

i am coming to see that everything is 'magic' and i cannot argue with that.

what i call nature ya'll is calling it magic..

wheh old chi says "the intimate matrix underpinning reality" and i liked than entire post by old chi.

i would say it is the inconceivable nature of nature

edit> and if you say magic is conceivable and manageable, could be , ya'll know more about magic.

i already said i have no idea but if that is how your defining magic and you can manipulate it?

then there are still natural forces beyond that

 

There HAS to be natural forces behind it .... IMO if anything is not based on a process in nature (including physics, etc ) its just another BS human head trip.

 

I like to look at like this.

 

 

I like to see him as a juggler. All the juggler has to do is catch and pass one thing to the other hand and fling it up ... thats it. To the outsider it looks impossible, how can he control all of those things so easily and with such complexity? Actually the laws of momentum, trajectory and gravity are doing most of it ... it is how the magician applies those laws and reactions.

 

Is a great gardener a magician? He understands many things; from the influences of the cosmos to the soil, to plant types, the seasons , locality, etc , etc. and puts in his influence; when appropriate, he might have a hot house but he wont try to grow lettuce in the snow.

 

IMO he is a magician. He is an earth / food producing magician

[zerostao]

in my neck of the woods we have these guys called farmers, you rneck of the woods they are magicians?

interesting, again then, everything is magic, isnt it?

ok here is a question for ya'll magicians;

can you use magic to enter the gate of wu chi?

if so, how?

 

i am finishing up an academic paper on the archetype> the trickster, i learned a few things

in ya'lls opinion is the trickster a magician?

[Nungali]

We have LOTS of farmers that ARE NOT magicians

 

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=degraded+farm+land+in+Australia&espv=210&es_sm=93&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=MkVDU--rL8WRkAXFsYC4CQ&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=1093&bih=528

 

And not all tricksters are magicians ... but some magicians can use the role of trickster (especially if they are a 'magical teacher').

 

Check out the God Mercury and the mythology of Gemini.

[zerostao]

"We have Lots of farmers that are not magicians" ok fair enuff lol

 

and of course there are tricksters and then the capital T Tricksters

 

but my gate of wu chi question is still there

 

gonna take a break for a bit, BBN is about to take the big stage here..

see if the ink prophet is a prophet after all

[BaguaKicksAss]

Many magicians use such things as talismans. This might differentiate them? Though thinking back to the areas you live in Zeros, the folks there have used protective amulets over their door to protect against the witches/witchcraft, for centuries. Then there's those egg talismans folks have used at eostara/now easter, for centuries, but most never thought much of it past a good luck decorative thing.

 

Or working with spirits, this may differentiate some? Though this can get confused with religious practices (there's a whole lot of Saints people call upon to help with various mundane things), and many Taoist immortals too. Then the ancestors, well one doesn't have to practice magic to leave some stuff (flowers etc.) out for them.

 

I think it just boils down to some going about it in a more structured and/or fancy way than others.

 

To get to wuwei, of course, since half of magic is working upon oneself and various meditations. Then there are also talismans and spirits which can help the magician to get there, if that is their thing.

[RiverSnake]

If life requires (such) effort, is there space too, to allow for effortlessness of Tao?

What effort does a garden bulb, blooming in her rightful Spring season, require, to unfold her petals? How does she know when it is Spring?

I would say that a garden bulb does exert effort. But it is an effort that is naturally and perfectly aligned with its nature as a garden bulb....and thus is effortless, it simply follows its nature. The more aligned with are nature as individuals we become the more life flows and are efforts become effortless because they are in harmony with the cosmos and all forces within and without.....but that doesn't mean life isn't gonna still throw you a curve ball and kick your ass every once in awhile....requiring us to wrestle and grapple with existential factors, life difficulties.....etc.

 

However, in general the more unbalanced and out of whack we are the more life both magically and mundanely grinds In the gears like a 15 year old trying to drive a shift stick for her first time.

 

My 2 cents, Peace

Edited April 8, 2014 by OldChi

[RiverSnake]

your description is of what i have always called concentration.

you are saying that magic is a concentrated thought?

edit >> i already mentioned intention and will and focus.

and my idea about magic is its none of those

Although I have not read any of his works and he also seemed a bit crazy.....he is without a doubt one of the most influential characters in Western Esotericism. Aleister Crowley defined Magick as: "any willed action, is a magical action". This is a statement I agree with.

 

The most common form of "Magick" I use everyday is prayer....a very powerful practice. I think the words and definitions we use are tangling this conversation more than anything else.

 

My 2 cents, Peace

Edited April 8, 2014 by OldChi

[zerostao]

so what i am reading here, what is considered magic or magick? some differentation hmm

anyways almot everything described here i have thought of as either psychology, philosophy, energetics,

art, or interacting with spirit realm. and i will still have at least one more post to make here, in a bit

 

bka, i do have a Taoist talisman/fu over my front door !

i used to carry one in my wallet,,and maybe i do need to charge a fu to put there again. haha

 

in this thread love was never mentioned..........maybe this guy was a magician? idk i put him as artist

"Yes is the answer"

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dHUfy_YBps

[Brian]

 

And, as a magician, do I have the right to change her blooming season?

Did she ask you to change her?

Edited April 8, 2014 by Brian

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

Magick has nothing to do in tao.

 

Perfectly true.

 

Before you act, ask yourself.

 

What would be Way of Ultimate Dao?

 

I must go now send a note of apology.

 

kthxbye.

...

Edited April 8, 2014 by Captain Mar-Vell

[Yascra]

The more I write, the more I remember .... so YES it has a LOT of ritual in it.

 

Nowadays, I am closer to a Hermit. Mostly retired.

 

Hahaha, cool post.

 

People seem to suggest that one should do most of the aforementioned stuff. I feel there's a more wise approach to practice, that allows you to leave things out once they've served their purpose. So I feel some people I know in context of Western Magic won't take you serious if you don't do some of the "wild" things, but for myself I'd say I don't need that stuff.

 

What would you say, did you just stop practicing or do you simply practice stuff that's more effective nowadays, allowing you to "retire" from most of those "rituals"?

[GrandmasterP]

Many magicians use such things as talismans. This might differentiate them? Though thinking back to the areas you live in Zeros, the folks there have used protective amulets over their door to protect against the witches/witchcraft, for centuries. Then there's those egg talismans folks have used at eostara/now easter, for centuries, but most never thought much of it past a good luck decorative thing.

 

Or working with spirits, this may differentiate some? Though this can get confused with religious practices (there's a whole lot of Saints people call upon to help with various mundane things), and many Taoist immortals too. Then the ancestors, well one doesn't have to practice magic to leave some stuff (flowers etc.) out for them.

 

I think it just boils down to some going about it in a more structured and/or fancy way than others.

 

To get to wuwei, of course, since half of magic is working upon oneself and various meditations. Then there are also talismans and spirits which can help the magician to get there, if that is their thing.

 

I'm not especially superstitious but always carry a talisman.

It's a Phillipino 'anting anting' Martial Arts 'charm'.

Nice piece of kit, cast in metal and in a little 'purse'.

Buddy of mine sent it over a few years ago and it's been 'blessed' by one of the top 'anting anting' guys in Cebu City.

No point taking unnecessary chances IMO.

[Nungali]

 

Hahaha, cool post.

 

People seem to suggest that one should do most of the aforementioned stuff. I feel there's a more wise approach to practice, that allows you to leave things out once they've served their purpose. So I feel some people I know in context of Western Magic won't take you serious if you don't do some of the "wild" things, but for myself I'd say I don't need that stuff.

 

What would you say, did you just stop practicing or do you simply practice stuff that's more effective nowadays, allowing you to "retire" from most of those "rituals"?

 

 

A variety of reasons ... some , what you mentioned. Also , if one achieves a state or realisation thaty has 'bedded in' and has become part of consciousness , and that was the aim, I dont see the need to continue with a form (unless it is something that needs practice or 'top ups')

 

I'm not into qlippothic forms where a ritual is done for the purpose of habit. There are some I would still like to return to and finish or do more completely, like our sessions on Stella Yoga ... and Liber Nv .... I would LOVE to do that again in a fuller and more developed form. Maybe the end of that rite will coincide with the end of things here ??? What a way to go!

[Nungali]

I'm not especially superstitious but always carry a talisman. It's a Phillipino 'anting anting' Martial Arts 'charm'. Nice piece of kit, cast in metal and in a little 'purse'. Buddy of mine sent it over a few years ago and it's been 'blessed' by one of the top 'anting anting' guys in Cebu City. No point taking unnecessary chances IMO.

Cool! Got a pic?

 

here is one:

 

 

 

I like the comment in my Dan Inasanto Book on how good the Philipino martial arts are ; "We killed Magellan! " Now that would make a great anting anting !