What do you think the forum can do to attract some quality teachers?

[Trunk]

... a bit more on this.

The vision, premise of TTBs is not a secret: re-read TTBs 3 Foundations.

 

Sean came up with the "classroom / cafeteria" metaphor and it is *very* apt, says a lot. Imagine if a teacher sat down at a cafeteria table and tried to start teaching a class: a situation that has some frustrations, inherent in the set-up. It's not that a cafeteria "doesn't like" teachers, nor that students don't want to learn things from teachers nor that students think the whole concept of teachers/classrooms are 'bad'. It's just that the premise of a cafeteria supports egalitarian conversation, where each person has the freedom to express themselves and there aren't the constraints on what is taboo to say/not say within a classroom environment. All that DOES NOT mean that classrooms aren't valuable!!! Classrooms / cafeterias are just different venues with different premises, that's all.

 

It's not fundamental in TTBs premise to make an environment conducive to teachers. Those that can hang here under our premise statements, fine, but there are undeniably some inherent risks & frustrations for teachers. It *IS* fundamental to TTBs premise to create & foster a space that supports the rights of individuals (regardless of status) to express themselves in an eclectic, relatively civil manner (allowing room for lively, colorful, vigorous debate that is part of varying pts of view).

 

When I showed Sean TTBs 3 Foundations document he said something like, "this is the obvious, just what everyone assumes and already knows is true". That's what I'd thought for a long time, too ... but often people try and make TTBs into something that it's not, and that's a source of conflict in the community, so had to write it down.

 

- Trunk

[CloudHands]

(Honestly, I think if you want to learn you cannot go seriously only with internet. And before you are at some serious level there's no valid reason to look for a sifu (who will not take you anyway) a good teacher is more than enough. Little steps, little steps.

I really think progression rely on practice and no one can burn the steps.)

Edited April 10, 2014 by CloudHands

[deci belle]

um… wake up, for starters.

 

As in WAKE UP. Bodhi, svaha.

 

Become yourselves as students first in order to realize yourselves as awakened, period. Then you may hope to progress with the aid of teachers.

 

This is the only way for people to approach study effectively.

 

A perceived lack of teachers is not the problem.

 

Teachers are not to be attracted; they are to be awaited with correctness and ongoing self-refinement.

 

There is nothing whatsoever for teachers to offer you.

 

It is your own mind. What need to be taught?

[Trunk]

First of all, Lettres d'Alchemie!!! boo-yah-ka-chah!

Deci Belle's rockin' blog! Dig it.

 

There is nothing whatsoever for teachers to offer you.

 

It is your own mind. What need to be taught?

That's a high level.

 

Just speaking from my own process...

Daily practice, study, and seeking out Teachers .. it's all been really important for me.

Certainly my own daily practice has been crucial for progressive stages. Nothing works without that. "Daily practice is the root of spiritual progress."

 

Studying with teachers, again, just ime,... the teachers I've been lucky enough to study with... have saved me countless lifetimes of work. Not kidding, not exagerating. Particularly the process of receiving transmission, over and over again, to prompt the "ignition of the flame" the "passing of the flame" from being to being that ignites the spiritual process within one's self... I just couldn't have done that on my own. Really, realistically, wouldn't have happened.

 

Also, dharma-friends along the way. I've learned as much from friends (co-students) as I did from teachers ... from a different kind of angle... blessings to the sangha! may well all help each other!

 

- Trunk

[Apech]

... a bit more on this.

The vision, premise of TTBs is not a secret: re-read TTBs 3 Foundations.

 

Sean came up with the "classroom / cafeteria" metaphor and it is *very* apt, says a lot. Imagine if a teacher sat down at a cafeteria table and tried to start teaching a class: a situation that has some frustrations, inherent in the set-up. It's not that a cafeteria "doesn't like" teachers, nor that students don't want to learn things from teachers nor that students think the whole concept of teachers/classrooms are 'bad'. It's just that the premise of a cafeteria supports egalitarian conversation, where each person has the freedom to express themselves and there aren't the constraints on what is taboo to say/not say within a classroom environment. All that DOES NOT mean that classrooms aren't valuable!!! Classrooms / cafeterias are just different venues with different premises, that's all.

 

It's not fundamental in TTBs premise to make an environment conducive to teachers. Those that can hang here under our premise statements, fine, but there are undeniably some inherent risks & frustrations for teachers. It *IS* fundamental to TTBs premise to create & foster a space that supports the rights of individuals (regardless of status) to express themselves in an eclectic, relatively civil manner (allowing room for lively, colorful, vigorous debate that is part of varying pts of view).

 

When I showed Sean TTBs 3 Foundations document he said something like, "this is the obvious, just what everyone assumes and already knows is true". That's what I'd thought for a long time, too ... but often people try and make TTBs into something that it's not, and that's a source of conflict in the community, so had to write it down.

 

- Trunk

 

 

I didn't want to get any more involved with this debate to be honest because its obvious that any idea, no matter how controlled or well worked out, which involves the word 'teacher' is going to get slapped down. So I see that you are maintaining this stance even though this thread contains some fairly decent ideas (not just my own I hasten to add) around this subject.

 

I don't have any problem with the cafeteria idea and civility is our code I accept that ... but to use your own example:

 

 

A fictional example of how 1&2 shake out:

If there's a TTBs debate about music between Mozart vs a beginning piano player, and it becomes heated enough that reports are generated for moderator consideration then, still, "level of knowledge, achievement, or status" are not basis for moderation. Civility is, applied equally to each member.

 

We are at risk here of being a community of polite people who can play chopsticks with one hand, having thrown out all the irascible child genius's who have been composing sonatas since they were 7 years old - simply because they lost their cool with a bunch of other members who were asking dumb questions while staring slack jawed at the piano trying to work out why there was no control alt delete on the keyboard.

 

To put it another way whilst civility is what we are trying to encourage it is not the right criteria for what makes interesting content ... it is just a rule of thumb to prevent excess which you have turned into the watchword. Especially ironic when you have recently taken to banning anyone who is a little irksome.

 

As to Sean's comment I can only say this, although he is the owner and takes to revenue presumably, while I served on the Moderation Team the only thing noticeable about Sean was his absence and disinterest ... and on those few occasions he did decide to visit his complete inability to grasp where we were up to. So I set no great store by his seeing the obvious in your formulations.

 

If you want answers to the extremely high turn over in the mod team and other issues look to the agenda you are pushing here and your own behaviour as Admin nowhere else.

Edited April 10, 2014 by Apech

[Trunk]

I didn't want to get any more involved with this debate to be honest because its obvious that any idea, no matter how controlled or well worked out, which involves the word 'teacher' is going to get slapped down.

That's clearly not true.

 

I've mentioned all of the following ideas...

within TTBs:

- signature links to any external sites

- embedded videos

- interviews (with ?s gathered from community)

- PPD's

- participation as a member

 

outside of TTBs

- blogs

- own private forum

- anything that can be created in the digital or 'real' world

 

I've also *very* much acknowledged the value of other venue formats (schools). Not only in general, also in my personal path. If that's not been clear, I repeat it here now with emphasis.

 

The only ideas that I've consistently drawn the line at is, at TTBs:

- any member controlling the conversation in a section that is viewable to the whole www.

- treating any set of members as higher status than another set, in terms of ability to communicate. (Obviously staff plays a different role.)

 

It seems to me that these ideas have been extremely obvious from the very beginning of TTBs, (though apparently not to everyone).

 

We are at risk here of being a community of polite people who can play chopsticks with one hand, having thrown out all the irascible child genius's who have been composing sonatas since they were 7 years old - simply because they lost their cool with a bunch of other members who were asking dumb questions while staring slack jawed at the piano trying to work out why there was no control alt delete on the keyboard.

That's the downside of the cafeteria model, obviously. .. though you are stating it to an extreme, which tends not to occur - or only for very brief periods.

 

If you want to go study with a teacher (and I personally think it's *very* important that most students do) than GO STUDY WITH A TEACHER. Don't mistake TTBs for a school setting!!! People can do both!! You needn't leave one for the other.

 

 

This is the way it's been from the beginning at TTBs. That long-standing members seem strongly attached that-it-is-something-else seems ... odd to me, missing the obvious of what this place is, always has been. There's ways to work with it creatively, and there are endless creative possibilities outside of TTBs... there's no need to be fixated here with a frustration of what this place is not.

[Apech]

That's clearly not true.

 

I've mentioned all of the following ideas...

within TTBs:

- signature links to any external sites

- embedded videos

- interviews (with ?s gathered from community)

- PPD's

- participation as a member

 

outside of TTBs

- blogs

- own private forum

- anything that can be created in the digital or 'real' world

 

I've also *very* much acknowledged the value of other venue formats (schools). Not only in general, also in my personal path. If that's not been clear, I repeat it here now with emphasis.

 

The only ideas that I've consistently drawn the line at is, at TTBs:

- any member controlling the conversation in a section that is viewable to the whole www.

- treating any set of members as higher status than another set, in terms of ability to communicate. (Obviously staff plays a different role.)

 

It seems to me that these ideas have been extremely obvious from the very beginning of TTBs, (though apparently not to everyone).

 

That's the downside of the cafeteria model, obviously. .. though you are stating it to an extreme, which tends not to occur - or only for very brief periods.

 

If you want to go study with a teacher (and I personally think it's *very* important that most students do) than GO STUDY WITH A TEACHER. Don't mistake TTBs for a school setting!!! People can do both!! You needn't leave one for the other.

 

 

This is the way it's been from the beginning at TTBs. That long-standing members seem strongly attached that-it-is-something-else seems ... odd to me, missing the obvious of what this place is, always has been. There's ways to work with it creatively, and there are endless creative possibilities outside of TTBs... there's no need to be fixated here with a frustration of what this place is not.

 

 

Your reply speaks for itself.

[Trunk]

~ later edit ~
To add to my previous list, acknowledging the value of teachers, and to repeat myself:

Studying with teachers, again, just ime,... the teachers I've been lucky enough to study with... have saved me countless lifetimes of work. Not kidding, not exagerating.

In each one of those interactions with teachers, it was critical that I interacted with them on their turf, within their mandala... THAT provided a functional structure, a functional venue without which I wouldn't have received a fraction of what I received from them, each one. I did that a number of times, over and over. Super super important, for my personal progress, and - I believe, not just for me - but as a general principle. It's impossible for us to create that here at TTBs; it wouldn't do justice to the process and it's important that each teacher forms their own school mandala and activities in their own way, to produce what they produce in their school. Without those school venues, as a culture, we're lost. TTBs can't do that effectively; it would be a dis-service to that. TTBs is only what it is, and serves it's own - very different - important role.

[Apech]

~ later edit ~

To add to my previous list, acknowledging the value of teachers, and to repeat myself:

 

In each one of those interactions with teachers, it was critical that I interacted with them on their turf, within their mandala... THAT provided a functional structure, a functional venue without which I wouldn't have received a fraction of what I received from them, each one. I did that a number of times, over and over. Super super important, for my personal progress, and - I believe, not just for me - but as a general principle. It's impossible for us to create that here at TTBs; it wouldn't do justice to the process and it's important that each teacher forms their own school mandala and activities in their own way, to produce what they produce in their school. Without those school venues, as a culture, we're lost. TTBs can't do that effectively; it would be a dis-service to that. TTBs is only what it is, and serves it's own - very different - important role.

 

 

No one for one moment has suggested that we create a teacher's mandala ... so you are arguing with yourself again.

[Trunk]

No one for one moment has suggested that we create a teacher's mandala ...

 

The idea that comes to the table (if there's a different one that you're referring to, please clarify) is to have a section where chosen people, who are deemed by staff to be teachers, have either threads or sections, in which they have the ability to control the conversation beyond what we already give to thread-starters in general.  Correct?

 

That provides a basis for them to control the view and the conversation.  To "have the mic, and the front of the class" as it were.  That's what I'm referring to as the idea of contention w/in TTBs framework...  correct?

 

That would provide the basis for a control of the mandala in the broad "classroom" sense that I'm talking about.

 

If you have something else in mind, please be specific and clear.

 

p.s.

TTBs 3 Foundations contains this

signed,

- Trunk, author

- Sean, owner of TheTaoBums

[mYTHmAKER]

Actually I myself don't trust anyone who looses balance just because I insult him or her a little. On some level I tend to check people concerning those properties, and most fail due to arrogance or other lack of virtues.

 

This is not aimed at you - it's that you presented the opportunity to address insults.

I myself was very good at this and am sure with a little practice could get back into the swing of insulting others.

I do take issue with insult for insult sake - it is good if one wishes to feed their ego but what is the point.

Why be nasty to hurt others - why the need.

So IMHO although one may be very knowledgeable in a subject or proficient in a martial art,

if they can't control themselves they have achieved nothing in this life.

The real test to see if one has achieved anything - to see what state they are in - is not to engage and build on this negative energy.

So i do agree that if someone is insulting everyone they should be banned but before that happens we should practice not responding in like manner or not responding at all.

[Apech]

The idea that comes to the table (if there's a different one that you're referring to, please clarify) is to have a section where chosen people, who are deemed by staff to be teachers, have either threads or sections, in which they have the ability to control the conversation beyond what we already give to thread-starters in general.  Correct?

No.

That provides a basis for them to control the view and the conversation.  To "have the mic, and the front of the class" as it were.  That's what I'm referring to as the idea of contention w/in TTBs framework...  correct?

No I have not suggested this.

That would provide the basis for a control of the mandala in the broad "classroom" sense that I'm talking about.

 

If you have something else in mind, please be specific and clear.

I have made my case endless times on this thread and before when we were mods together and before you resigned.  The fact that you chose to interpret what I have said as something you object to is down to you.  Look to yourself and not to me.

p.s.

TTBs 3 Foundations contains this

 

 

signed,

- Trunk, author

- Sean, owner of TheTaoBums

  You are you.  Sean doesn't bother anymore and is on 'vacation'

 

.... so why are you quoting this at all?

 

If you just want me to shut up just say so.

[liminal_luke]

Myself, I like the cafetaria set up of taobums where everyone has an equal voice. I'm not sure how active it is now, but awhile back there was a mentoring thread. People with something to teach could volunteer to teach individual bums that wanted to learn from them. I like that. Although I never made a formal request I could see learning feng shui or chinese astrology from Taomeow, breathwork from JoeBlast. Could be great.

 

This kind of setup, however, amounts to a learning relationship between two people and preserves the principle of equal standing of members generally.

 

I don't think taobums is a great place to set up shop as a teacher. What we do excel at is providing a place where people can learn about teachers who are out there and then go take classes from them if they are so inclined.

 

One teacher who, in my opinion, very successfully navigates the dynamics of taobums is YaMu. He hasn't explained exactly how to do stillness/movement online but through his commentary, and that of his students, I've learned about his school. I've checked out his website and considered taking his workshops. If it weren't for Taobums I don't think I'd ever have learned about his teachings.

 

Liminal

Edited April 10, 2014 by liminal_luke

[Apech]

Myself, I like the cafetaria set up of taobums where everyone has an equal voice. I'm not sure how active it is now, but awhile back there was a mentoring thread. People with something to teach could volunteer to teach individual bums that wanted to learn from them. I like that. Although I never made a formal request I could see learning learn feng shui or chinese astrology from Taomeow, breathwork from JoeBlast. Could be great.

 

This kind of setup, however, amounts to a learning relationship between two people and preserves the principle of equal standing of members generally.

 

I don't think taobums is a great place to set up shop as a teacher. What we do excel at is providing a place where people can learn about teachers who are out there and then go take classes from them if they are so inclined.

 

One teacher who, in my opinion, very successfully navigates the dynamics of taobums is YaMu. He hasn't explained exactly how to do stillness/movement online but through his commentary, and that of his students, I've learned about his school. I've checked out his website and considered taking his workshops. If it weren't for Taobums I don't think I'd ever have learned about his teachings.

 

Liminal

 

 

This the point. Well said. No one is suggesting on-line teaching. But we are suggesting improved access to information about teachings and teachers.

Edited April 10, 2014 by Apech

[Yascra]

I myself was very good at this and am sure with a little practice could get back into the swing of insulting others.

I do take issue with insult for insult sake - it is good if one wishes to feed their ego but what is the point.

Why be nasty to hurt others - why the need.

So IMHO although one may be very knowledgeable in a subject or proficient in a martial art,

if they can't control themselves they have achieved nothing in this life.

 

Oh, I never really liked insulting etc. in general. It is only - well, I really DO like the idea of this cafeteria-setting. In a temple where someone is sitting on his or her throne it is quite clear who will be kicked out if the person on the throne doesn't agree with something. Even if it should be the person on the throne who talks rubbish .. and I have personal experience with that happening. I mean, I'm a Western student with no real lineage that would care for me or my development, so it's up to me myself and heaven's help to some degree. Even with holding up a daily practice as good as it's possible as a householder I SHOULD in theory not be the one who understands more than persons who've had the benefit of growing up in a community in which any kind of spirituality is appreciated, instead of ridiculed like it tends to be the case on my society. BUT .. I found it to be like that.

That does not mean that I'd like to be the person on the throne. But it does mean that I've had the experience of abuse of that "artificial" hierarchy by persons who were definitely not so great in their own practice.

 

People notice if someone really cares for them, I'd say there are some positive examples in here in which you can see that. So if someone is really a good and balanced person willing to teach and to give insight, wisdom, knowledge, yes, there might be some few people who might bring in personal issues and attack even such guys, that's the disadvantage of "same level". But my impression is that most people will be grateful for such possibilities, and those who are not interested might at least be fair enough to appreciate that this particular person who's teaching has something valuable to offer (at least to others), and let them do that in peace.

What I was aiming at was that I'd say such balanced persons would be able to handle some few people who misbehave, and not blame others for that. Report functions are available for everybody who feels s/he's being attacked or offended.

 

At least I know on that level that I won't be kicked out here just because I'm not crawling in the dust due to some titles of which some "teachers" are extremely proud. Not everybody who is acknowledged publicly as a teacher is a high-level practicioner - which is okay in principle, as long as those low-level teachers don't get the power to give me a suspension because they're jealous that I'm able to bless my food on my own, and don't bow whenever they enter the room. Might sound ridiculous, but that's what I have encountered even in real live. I don't need that kind of teachers, and I definitely don't want them to have power in some subforum just because they have enough charisma to accumulate some disciples or fans who follow them. Once begun, where would you stop that?

 

It's a difficult issue in the whole spiritual scene.

It would be a great idea if you would have some test to make sure that someone is a good teacher, which would per se be someone who would never abuse any power you give to them. Well, as mentioned earlier in the thread, basically I'm okay with that, but people wouldn't like my tests and observations, and definitely people wouldn't like to wait 2 - 6 years until I'd approve them as "good teacher".

[i really don't care about system or religious background, I'm just talking about good practice and personal development.]

 

And no, coming back to that, insulting people is not my plan actually ^^ I've never been very good at it anyway. As long as I don't see people harm others I tend to not even bother people with very honest (negative) opinions of mine. Unfortunately bad practicioners are extremely good in feeling offended by just seeing someone holding an opinion they don't share - and that's the sort of "not my problem" I really wouldn't like to cope to much with in my free time.

 

'nough said, so far, I assume. Have a nice day

Edited April 10, 2014 by Yascra

[Marblehead]

The idea that comes to the table (if there's a different one that you're referring to, please clarify) is to have a section where chosen people, who are deemed by staff to be teachers, have either threads or sections, in which they have the ability to control the conversation beyond what we already give to thread-starters in general. Correct?

That is what I was speaking to as inspired by something BKA said. As long as we are aware enough to know when we are in the classroom as opposed to being in the cafeteria I don't see where this would be a problem.

 

There are already discussions, both positive and negative, here regarding numerous teachers. That will continue with or without any format changes.

[rex]

Is TTBs' fun amateurish egalitarian experimenting and sharing really compatible with the presence of quality teachers? Although we are all equal in the sight of God, spirituality, cultivation and development tends to be anything but egalitarian and natural hierarchies soon assert themselves. On one hand they'll be cults of personality and select coteries clustering round certain individuals (it's happened here before), and on the other there'll be ill-mannered ignorant scoffers belittling teachers and teachings worthy of respect and gratitude. At a pinch have closed sub-forums away from the open maelstrom.

 

edit: tpyos, splleing, punctuation

Edited April 12, 2014 by rex

[Marblehead]

I suppose that's where being mature and responsible comes into play.

[Yascra]

The point is, what I think .. well, actually I think that most possible options are already there.

 

Articles for example - you might well get together some users, via OT-threads just for organization, or in their PPFs, who just put together their ideas and experiences and make a nice article series out of that.

All you could do to improve that, in my opinion, would maybe be some direct link to articles, based maybe on how many users liked that article. Don't know how to actually do that, but it should be possible somewhere.

 

PPF.. well, that's indeed a space where you do have the possibility to control things, but sometimes it's not so easy to navigate them and find really helpful one's - if you should not already know about someone who contributes good stuff So that's more the hearsay-variant. Maybe writing some good articles to get attention and then having a link to one's PPF in the signature might help with that?

 

Question-threads, I think have also worked quite well in the past, at least those made some part of how I found this place here.

So I think it's really not an issue of lacking options.

 

To answer the question of what you might improve, I think all you could do for that sake is bring in some structure. In one forum I've been on there was a user who created a thread, for example, including a link-collection to worthwhile contributions and threads, adding posts with some excerpts and quotes of those threads. So it would not even be necessary to do that in a complicated way that changes the whole design. I think I've even seen such approaches somewhere on the forum here .. unfortunately with some of the links not working any more.

Problem of that approach is that it is work for the person who's doing it. As moderating team you could appreciate such work by sticking it.

 

At least that would be the most easy way to improve something, I think.

 

Problem of any "class-room-subforum" I'd see would be .. well, it doesn't really matter on which part of a building you set up a hierarchy. Teachers will meet in the teachers room, and students will be students even in other threads if you just have that idea in people's heads. As someone who is sick of teachers I'm afraid that might cause trouble on the long run.

Edited April 10, 2014 by Yascra

[Brian]

What I think is missing from the forum is a force of will from the members themselves, en masse, to actively ask fools to stop yammering (after they have voiced their opinion) and to warn the casual reader, in public, that they would be well advised to not take So-And-So's advice/opinion/recommendation seriously on "Topic X." Under the largely-egalitarian structure in place here, it is not appropriate for Staff to do so but I believe it IS appropriate for members to take this action.

 

What happens, instead, is one or two members may attempt to do so but the vast majority simply abandon the thread. The thread then devolves into a Ping-Pong match in which tempers often flare, the thread gets pitted and the good content near the beginning of the thread dies on the vine.

 

It has frequently been suggested that the appropriate response is to walk away or to simply ignore the loudmouth or fool. While there are situations in which this makes sense, there are many others in which it does not, often resulting in threads dominated by (sometimes dangerous) nonsense or members whose content I come here for eventually walking away from the forum, making it increasingly likely that I will also stop frequenting the site. While some here undoubtedly relish that prospect, I don't consider myself to be a valuable contributor but an active absorber so I'm really not talking about "me."

 

Think about this -- if you are in a crowded movie theater and someone near you is talking and yelling and throwing popcorn the whole time, what is the reaction of the other theater-goers? Further, if this happens often and the management's response to complaints about such disruptions is viewed as lackadaisical or laissez faire, how likely are you to continue to return to that particular theater? While we may not be required to pay money to be members here (although may of us actually have...), we DO expend time & energy, which are the true bases for exchange and not money.

 

As to the idea of using PPFs... If all the "good stuff" (whether shared by "teachers" or not) gets relegated to PPFs which are not visible to non-members, the apparent content rapidly becomes degraded and there is little of substance to attract potential members -- and then the death-spiral begins.

Edited April 10, 2014 by Brian

[zerostao]

brian, you make some good valid points and i certainly have always valued your voice on ttb. the crowded movie theatre is a good example.

your last closing paragraph, why would the "good stuff" rapidly become degraded in a ppf?

and would this also have the potential for visitors to become members,

if they knew by doing so, they could view the "good stuff" ?

 

edit> this post posted b4 i was finished. but i'll continue ;

 

since he has been brought up and even posted on this thread, i would like to hear from yamu, why he doesnt take advantage of the ppf?

 

did santiago have a ppf while he was here?

did 5 elementao have a ppf?

Edited April 10, 2014 by zerostao

[dee]

As mentioned earlier in the thread, we do have many quality "teachers" on here already. They just don't see themselves as teachers, and it is likely that many of the membership miss it as well .

 

Are you offering?

[Trunk]

I have made my case endless times on this thread ...

Going back and reading your posts in this thread.

 

These two seem to be the essence of what you are suggesting (both posts quoted in entirety):

I had an idea when I was a mod for a more strictly moderated teachers forum where teachers would be invited to post on a q&a basis about their system and any ignorant trolling etc. would be split out ...but it fell foul of Trunks level playing field. I don't know if anyone recalls the Bruce Frantzis Q&A we did a while ago which was a success. I thought we should replicate that with other teachers where we would invite questions from the members ...

construct an interview around them and then post that as a beginning and then take questions afetr that ina controlled way. This would be separate from the main forums in a special sub ...everything else here would saty the same.

 

Its not about whether the teacher or their system for that matter is any good ... its about putting it up there so people can make up their own minds and at least know what exactly it is and does. That's as far as I would go. So someone teaches a form of Qi Gong ... so tell us about it ... whats the lineage how does it work and so on and bit about the teacher. Then people can ask questions. All that needs to happen is a modicum of respect ... not the immediate attack ... I don't see the problem. We are not endorsing them ... just confirming they exist, what they do and so on.

 

But as I say I have suggested this so many times and been told it won't work ... so ...

 

 

p.s.

 

the Bruce Frantzis Q&A we did a while ago which was a success

I am searching for this. I think that the basic interview idea is a good idea for quality contributions to TTBs and I'd agree that the idea of "interviews" has been way under-utilized. (Though we might differ as to details of implementation... and I've not thoroughly thought through all of that, but am reviewing your idea.)

 

... just found it:

What would YOU ask Bruce Frantzis? then

The Tao Bums Interview with Bruce Frantzis

also

What would YOU ask Chunyi Lin? then

Interview with Chunyi Lin of Spring Forest Qigong.

and

TaoBums Q&A with Kosta Danaos

[Brian]

brian, you make some good valid points and i certainly have always valued your voice on ttb. the crowded movie theatre is a good example.

your last closing paragraph, why would the "good stuff" rapidly become degraded in a ppf?

and would this also have the potential for visitors to become members,

if they knew by doing so, they could view the "good stuff" ?

 

edit> this post posted b4 i was finished. but i'll continue ;

 

since he has been brought up and even posted on this thread, i would like to hear from yamu, why he doesnt take advantage of the ppf?

 

did santiago have a ppf while he was here?

did 5 elementao have a ppf?

I should have been more verbose there -- PPFs are not visible to the overwhelming majority of TTB readers and also don't show up in searches by Google or other engines. This is by design and is as it should be but it means only the sliver of people who have joined and logged in have access that content. Nothing new there, of course. My point was that, if "teachers" (and others wishing to avoid fools and Snarky Snarkletons) begin to post content "of pith and merit" to PPFs, that high-value content is removed from the "open stacks" and what is left behind would be increasingly weighed with the water-cooler banter, locker-room humor and tripe that peppers the forum (and in which I willingly participate).

 

As search engines return fewer hits on the jewels some members post and as fewer of those jewels are available to passers-by, the motivation dwindles for them to stick around long enough to realize "the good stuff"' is kept behind locked doors. We currently have a growth factor from new members and a decline factor from members who lose interest -- if our actions tend to decrease the former factor more than they increase the latter, the differential equation might find a new equilibrium point but, in my estimation, it seems likely to me to drop steadily until it is below the point at which the forum maintains financial viability.

 

Make sense?

Edited April 10, 2014 by Brian

[zerostao]

I should have been more verbose there -- PPFs are not visible to the overwhelming majority of TTB readers and also don't show up in searches by Google or other engines. This is by design and is as it should be but it means only the sliver of people who have joined and logged in have access that content. Nothing new there, of course. My point was that, if "teachers" (and others wishing to avoid fools and Snarky Snarkletons) begin to post content "of pith and merit" to PPFs, that high-value content is removed from the "open stacks" and what is left behind would be increasingly weighed with the water-cooler banter, locker-room humor and tripe that peppers the forum (and in which I willingly participate).

 

As search engines return fewer hits on the jewels some members post and as fewer of those jewels are available to passers-by, the motivation dwindles for them to stick around long enough to realize "the good stuff"' is kept behind locked doors. We currently have a growth factor from new members and a decline factor from members who lose interest -- if our actions tend to decrease the former factor more than they increase the latter, the differential equation might find a new equilibrium point but, in my estimation, it seems likely to me to drop steadily until it is below the point at which the forum maintains financial viability.

 

Make sense?

if i had a teacher that posted in ppf, it would seem a huge benefit to me. the thread could stay right on topic without the detractors. lets say there are 50 members here that have bought either books, dvds, or attended seminars, but dont live close enuff to be able to see this teacher on a weekly or even monthly basis. having an active ppf, where the 50 could share their experiences of doing the practices and having the teacher providing relevant feedback, imo would be highly beneficial.

and it directly benefits the tao bum members, i dont really care so much about the occasional casual onlookers that are not members here, my loyalty and service has been to tao bums, that is why i didnt mind at all to donate my time and energy to mod here. i like that i gave back to a site that has benefitted me so much.

but if i was a casual non member perusing this site looking for a teacher. and i saw one that had an active ppf for the students he/she already had. that would probably look favorable to me.

does that sense?

edit> and zen bear does it on the open forum even, he has had his moments dealing with detractors now and then, but that bunch does keep on keepin on from what i've seen.

Edited April 10, 2014 by zerostao