Daoist school Zhen Dao Pai: video and photo; training in London.

[Antares]

Physical exercises in Alchemy? This is nonsense. It has NOTHING to do with school of alchemy.

[Vitalii]

Physical exercises in Alchemy? This is nonsense. It has NOTHING to do with school of alchemy.

 

If you pay attentions to the name of the video you can see which practice it is exactly about.

[joeblast]

Physical exercises in Alchemy? This is nonsense. It has NOTHING to do with school of alchemy.

nah, a strong body got nuttin to do with that...hahaha

[GreytoWhite]

Yeah goods forbid you have a sufficiently robust medium for the current to run through.

[Friend]

Physical exercises in Alchemy? This is nonsense. It has NOTHING to do with school of alchemy.

The things are in relationship and so seperation isnt something to aim for.

While it not actively affect Alchemy it sure do it passiv.

Weights can be used to build up strength but as well can be used as a trigger

to gain greater balance and reduce the usage of energy in daily life

by optimizing movement in dealing with changes so it not interfere with Alchemy.

One can also use weight to make unecessary movement in Qigong Form obvious

and also help to increase breathing under increae of stress burden.

 

 

Doing wrong build unnecessary muscle substance that interfere coordination of antagonist

and shifting balance on the subconcious balance and using extra tension which in optimal

state not occur which cause a waste of energy.

 

One use pre heaven and post heaven in every activity.

One part of cultivation is to build more post heaven to reduce the use of pre heaven.

The more one strain the more pre heaven is used.

Alchemy starts by cultivate pre heaven but it not prevent one spend more.

It would be good to cultvate pre and post heaven alike and well spending of this energy,

beside of purifying, syncronisation and concentration of these energies.

 

The problem in cultivation energy is about loss one has by daily life about how much one spend

and a method to gain the cultivation energy.

It belongs to regulations of small and very mundane things like having enough good sleep,

not overeating, or exercise after heavy meals or taking showers.

Cultivation success is the sum of the things one do and not do and how it is done.

[Antares]

If you pay attentions to the name of the video you can see which practice it is exactly about.

 

I pay attention to the name of the thread where you mentioned daoist school . First of all taoist people practice alchemy and any martial training is not to be practiced. You post videos of physical training here in MA. In alchemy training internal power is coming from inside out and not other way around! Otherwise it will be external training.

Edited June 1, 2014 by Antares

[Antares]

Weights can be used to build up strength but as well can be used as a trigger

to gain greater balance and reduce the usage of energy in daily life

by optimizing movement in dealing with changes so it not interfere with Alchemy.

 

Yes, it can be used in MA training but HOW these videos of Xinqyi and Taichi warm ups correlate directly with alchemical practice? Which school of alchemy is it coming from?

[Friend]

Yes, it can be used in MA training but HOW these videos of Xinqyi and Taichi warm ups correlate directly with alchemical practice? Which school of alchemy is it coming from?

For "these" videos one has to do them over and over again but it is not

something you really want to do. This would be evolution.

 

I can tell some general things:

XingYi might be MA but the form itself serves of cultivation of Wu Xing,

the five elemental phases and the cultivation of the five organs related to them.

Correct practise strengthen them, incorrect practise damage them.

One of the states XingYi can reach is a neutral state where force distrubition is in all direction is

the same. While beside of this also is clever martial arts to disrupt balance from others

by having a shadow follow the primary attack. You can say it is auxilary practise.

 

As well pre heaven energy cultivation can be done by the usage of Wu Xing organs

which is used in Longmen Pai by doing Wu Xing Gong and gathering their energy in dantien while

also balancing the organs in same time. Longmen Pai uses Yin Xian Fa has the method which resemble

alot the cultivation method of Taoist Yoga described by Charles Luk which not going in Detail

is taking energy from the outside and starting direclty from upper bypassing the foundation of

building up generative force.

 

The same practise is running by changing the balance of post heaven

more the pre heaven in the end. But actually those who actually succeed in Yin Xian Fa have access

to the highest expression of this form, the access of cosmic fire which resemble Agni in indian system

which comes from the void. But first to work is only the eight direction and the little amount taking in

from pre heaven.

 

To this meditation of Wu Xing Gong is as well in sitting and in standing, in standing it is after Ping Heng Gong

which is cultivation using of trees for specifc organ energy a balance and purifying is needed after taking it in.

Energy has to be digested.

Depending on daytime its either pre heaven or post heaven.

But even taking pre heaven doesnt work so well, as first damage has to be repaired first.

When full health is regained pre heaven is gathering effective but in meantime one do lots of ...abuse

and also age is going on with the time of cultivation.

You can say XingYi is an option to help the WuXing Organs. The work on the body and force is to minimize

the needed energy. Doing well it is transalte into the motions in daily live, the things on carry , every step.

But mostly it is post heaven work.

 

Tai Chi origin belongs to a more secret school which needs a Neikung core to work while it gets to state of a fairly good

martial art. But because of the limitation and the intent behind of the movements the things it can do is also limited.

But despite being a martial art it refines the body and prepare it for inner processes.

 

Ken who is a member here and has the longmenpai blogspot told about the advantage a Tai Chi practioner has

still until today I wait that the Meridian Tai Chi is done and puplical introduced.

Also the same secret school has form which undoubtly so simple and open up inner internal meridians one even

doubt that it could be part of inner cultivation as it is so.....external and crude that I avoid to practise it but give clear difference

unlike any other practise which give me a hint how much an energetic transmission with the right form can do.

 

So even things are very doubtful in many cases one have to look again and again.

The same is done when one do ones repetive forms of the lineages one join.

Even if one think it right as one think one has to look again and again for a difference in it.

In all practise I did when I progress and look back I see how many mistake it made

and underestimating practises.

 

Where ever the practise comes from on need to find out what the usage is and what the one

who present is, internal specialist, a master, lineageholder, advance practioner,engineer

or a material provider. A wrong practise can be practise right and a right practise can be practised wrong.

[Antares]

As well pre heaven energy cultivation can be done by the usage of Wu Xing organs

which is used in Longmen Pai by doing Wu Xing Gong and gathering their energy in dantien while

also balancing the organs in same time. Longmen Pai uses Yin Xian Fa has the method which resemble

alot the cultivation method of Taoist Yoga described by Charles Luk which not going in Detail

is taking energy from the outside and starting direclty from upper bypassing the foundation of

building up generative force.

 

My Friend, it will be my last post in this thread. Wu Xing Gong is Qigong which can not be a part of any Taoist school. Qigong is corrupt method which derived from alchemical methods. If anyone says to you that qigong is part of Taoist schools it means you encountered wrong teacher. As simple as that

[ChiDragon]

I cannot agree with that but let it speak for itself.

[Antares]

I cannot agree with that but let it speak for itself.

 

 

I have to post again only for clarification. Wudang is the name of mountains. It is not school. Nowadays many people use this name and there are dozens of qigong systems which use the name of Wudang. Also there are dozens of qigong systems which refer to Wudang. Longmenpai is like trademark nowadays which is used to draw people who pay money. But this is qigong. If you go to their website and examine it you will see they teach qigong and MA ONLY

[Friend]

Antares, you always make grand statements, but when you are asked to explain something or give evidence for your arguments, you only answer that this information is secret or do not give a reasonable answer at all.

 

Antares, you can not say us even the name of your Chinese teacher, it means that your words do not mean anything.

No Vitalii,

 

some teachers do not want to be mentioned due to their tradtions.

Some teachers go so far to order you to come and not telling their name,

this has to be respected so far and one join these sects if one wants to find out more

under all risk to receive false information or correct information.

 

It is already good enough that one tell some stuff without revealing points.

Other people are more wise and put the whole stuff into "as if I do not know"

but so you dont have a chance to find something.

 

I myself can not tell some stuff, due to personal wishes or to that schools

policy and I hold to that but I try to tell as much there is room left.

[dawei]

~~~ ADMIN COMMENT ~~~

 

I cleaned up the thread and moved some to the PIT

 

Let's keep to the topic and reasonable counter comments.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[ChiDragon]

.............. Qigong is corrupt method which derived from alchemical methods. .....

 

I am very confused about the statement. Qigong is a method which stands on its own. I have no idea that it was a corrupted method which derived from alchemical methods. Btw, the alchemical method is a form of Qigong as far as I know.

[MooNiNite]

Physical exercise is important in alchemical training.

 

Mind. Body, Spirit.

 

A strong body will help if you want to calm the mind and nourish the spirit..

Edited June 2, 2014 by MooNiNite

[ChiDragon]

Mind, Body, and Spirit....
Spirit is part of the mind but the most important ingredient in Qigong is the UMB. However, most people do not realize that.

Note: UMB is the Ultimate Method of Breathing.

[Vitalii]

No Vitalii,

 

some teachers do not want to be mentioned due to their tradtions.

Some teachers go so far to order you to come and not telling their name,

this has to be respected so far and one join these sects if one wants to find out more

under all risk to receive false information or correct information.

 

It is already good enough that one tell some stuff without revealing points.

Other people are more wise and put the whole stuff into "as if I do not know"

but so you dont have a chance to find something.

 

I myself can not tell some stuff, due to personal wishes or to that schools

policy and I hold to that but I try to tell as much there is room left.

 

No Friend,

 

it's just a comfortable position for some people to say what they want without any proofs.

if someone can not even say the name of his teacher, then it speaks volumes...

[Vitalii]

 

 

If you go to their website and examine it you will see they teach qigong and MA ONLY

 

If anyone says to you that qigong is part of Taoist schools it means you encountered wrong teacher. As simple as that

 

It is not true.

On the video we can see Master Yuan Xiu Gang. I know him. He is a Daoist priest (Daoist name Shi Mao), is the 15th generation disciple of Wudang San Feng Pai.

Daoist School San Feng Pai has not only martial arts and Qigong, but also Inner Alchemy (meditation).

[joeblast]

insofar as wuxing is spoken of, imho strengthening the 5 element balance is absolutely conducive to the internal alchemy process.

 

and please tell me who wrote the hard and fast rule that waidan should be skipped if one is practicing neidan

Edited June 2, 2014 by joeblast

[Antares]

Physical exercise is important in alchemical training.

 

Mind. Body, Spirit.

 

A strong body will help if you want to calm the mind and nourish the spirit..

 

In alchemy there is another principle in training. As I already mentioned this training goes from inside out. This is not as it is in yoga for example or in bodybuilding. First of all we will have to work with energy and then energy build the structure of a body. It could be tree stance or slow movements which effect energy channels. We will have to bring to the balance thoughts, energy and spirit. But it is done not through external body work out in alchemy. This is fiture of the alchemical methods. It is difficult to explain to people who know a very little about alchemicals methods as people compare things on the basis of their limited knowledge. And other people can use it giving them corrupted methods.

[Vitalii]

About strength training in Taijiquan:

 

"David Gaffney (co-author of the excellent Chen Style Taijiquan) has an article on chen tai chi strength training (PDF) that mentions methods such as stone lifting, pole shaking, the taiji bang (short stick), taiji ball (akin to a medicine ball), and training with intentionally heavy weapons:

 

 

"While it may come as a surprise to many, strength training is not a new phenomenon in Taijiquan. In the past, it represented one aspect of an all-encompassing training process. In Chenjiagou, within the garden where 14th Generation Chen clan member Chen Changxin is said to have taught Yang Luchan, founder of Yang style Taijiquan, can still be found an eighty kilogram stone weight that they are said to have regularly trained with. Traditional strength training methods such as pole shaking and practicing with heavy weapons continue to be used up until today.

...

 

Lifting heavy stones is done as a means to training the waist and lower body. Chen Ziquiang explains "the strength training method is highly specialized. You are not training to develop 'stupid strength' (brute or localised strength). This is training strength in the waist. Your hand strength is like the hook you use when you are towing a car. You have to remember that your hand is the hook. Your strength is coming from the waist and how you push into the ground, combining the strength of the car and the rope. The hook is only the implement that connects the two. So when you lift the big rock, it is the strength of the legs and waist...".

[Vitalii]

I opened a new topic about it - About strength training in Wushu

[Fazeng]

On the video you can see 4 variations of the direct kick:

- just direct kick

- direct kick with hand movements

- direct kick with hand movements and stop after kick

- direct kick with hand movements from lower stance

 

 

 

Very interesting. Thanks for sharing.

Do you have more such videos?

Edited July 7, 2014 by Fazeng

[Vitalii]

Very interesting. Thanks for sharing.

Do you have more such videos?

 

you are welcome.

 

yes, I have

perhaps I will publish other my videos later

[soaring crane]

I agree with Friend. And have experienced this myself. Not all teachers want to be known.

 

I have also heard of teachers that teach only one student. Maybe this happens when a highly spiritually developed cultivator finds a particular resonance with another cultivator, who, by way of right and natural timing, is ready to begin a non-formal sudent-teacher relationship.

 

Lam Kam Chuen says he was evaluated for three years before being accepted. He says they were testing to see if he was intteligent or stupid. If he was intelligent, he would never have been accepted, haha. Smart people aren't taught anything of substance.