Philosophical Taoism

[Rocky Lionmouth]

Good thought.

 

When you get to where you need to be you will be able to stop without know why you have stopped, look around and see no footprints, not even your own.

That happens all the time, sometimes its pretty nice and sometimes downright unpleasant. After its either dive back in or slightly change scenery. Accept, adapt and move on, sort of. Most times its just like a mental reset, letting go and finding freedom in a previously tight spot.

 

Been taking a break from reading the old guys, i believe its easy to get stuck on the text and thereby get stuck on conceptual details, forgetting the living and filling my head with dead qi,(edit: you know like teacups and pouring etc etc?)

In the end, of what consequence are footprints unless one needs them for a specific purpose, say to backtrack or follow?

Edited April 11, 2014 by Rocky Lionmouth

[Marblehead]

 

In the end, of what consequence are footprints unless one needs them for a specific purpose, say to backtrack or follow?

What a beautiful question! I'm not going to spoil it by trying to answer it.

[GrandmasterP]

Will take a look at that 'Seven Sages of the Bamboo Grove'.

Does anyone a reference or recommendation for a book or decent link please?

MH's tripartite taxonomy of Taoism elsewhere on here got me thinking.

I'd not differentiated between

Alchemical

Religious

and

Philosophical

Taoism simply cos I don't know much and haven't read much, but would like to.

As someone who earns the odd shilling enacting a Philosophy ( Existential Analysis) - as per my earlier link to the Society for Existential Analysis - that approach 'in and from' Taoism appeals.

Philosophy can be enacted hence, if phenomenology can be and is used as a therapeutic praxis ( "

"Shit happens , live with it" being the unofficial motto of Existential Psychoanalysts) .. Then maybe Taoist Philosophy might do the same.

We'd still need a careful and mutually agreeable contemporary definition or definitions of just what Philosophical Taoism 'is' though.

Edited April 11, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Stosh]

That happens all the time, sometimes its pretty nice and sometimes downright unpleasant. After its either dive back in or slightly change scenery. Accept, adapt and move on, sort of. Most times its just like a mental reset, letting go and finding freedom in a previously tight spot.

 

Been taking a break from reading the old guys, i believe its easy to get stuck on the text and thereby get stuck on conceptual details, forgetting the living and filling my head with dead qi,(edit: you know like teacups and pouring etc etc?)

In the end, of what consequence are footprints unless one needs them for a specific purpose, say to backtrack or follow?

Well ,lets say you slipped up somewhere in your 'cultivation',, it happens,, If you were clear on what it was you did to get out of the habit or mindset etc , then being able to see ones 'footprints' could be helpful.

 

This would be an instance of needing them for a specific purpose,, and since anyone might screw up here and there , the situation of them having no potential use, isnt as likely as them having potential use.

 

Its been said that Edison described his hunt for the lightbulb filiment as discovering lots of way not to make one. He'd have been in a fix if he couldnt remember one day to the next whether he'd tried bismuth or not.

 

So I think foot prints are fine.

Edited April 11, 2014 by Stosh

[Rara]

Wow...!

 

I wonder if all those footprints lead to the same place.

[Marblehead]

Will take a look at that 'Seven Sages of the Bamboo Grove'.

Does anyone a reference or recommendation for a book or decent link please?

 

Someone here does. They tried to have a discussion about them and I said I would get back with them after I had gained some knowledge but shit happened and I never got around to it.

 

Was it Harmonious Emptiness?

 

I'm glad I can forget things but I didn't want to forget this.

 

If anyone remembers, please help.

[Rocky Lionmouth]

You are not alone.

 

 

I wrote the author a letter.

Dear Author,

 

As I write this I am sprinkling my beloved Winnie the Pooh doll w/ gasoline. After reading your book I can no longer stand to look at him.

 

Signed

A Sincerely Disgruntled Reader

 

*applause*

 

[Rocky Lionmouth]

Heres A link anyway, decent or not we shall see...

 

http://www.goldenelixir.com/publications/eot_daojia.html

 

I will now stare at it here, in bed, where one is at a full potential for good ideas and relaxation according (potential misquote alert) of Dr Lin Yutangs treatise on the art enjoying life.

[Marblehead]

Not many people talk about Lin Yutang. I really enjoyed his translation of Chuang Tzu.

[Formless Tao]

Excellent inputs so far.

 

Philosophical Taoism, for me, is not just sitting at the computer and talking with others about it, it is my Philosophy of Life.

 

Philosophical Taoism, for me, and yes, I know, others may well disagree with me, are the writings in the Lao Tzu and the Chuang Tzu. These two documents present guidelines for any person by which to live a good life. There are many lessons, especially in the Chuang Tzu, that can be applied to our every-day life which, if used properly, will keep us out of a lot of trouble.

 

Yes, there are a couple places where Lao Tzu went a little mystical and even more where Chuang Tzu did the same. But there primary emphasis was on how to live with as little conflict as possible with others and our environment.

 

Philosophical Taoism does not rely on deities, ceremonies, rituals or any of the other complications of life. It speaks to the Manifest (Yu) aspect of Tao. However, both did also speak to the Mystery (Wu). I personally consider the Yu aspect as how I relate with others and my external world and the Wu aspect as how I intereact with myself.

 

Taoism is my primary philosophy of life. Yes, there are other philosophies mixed in there too because they speak more directly to condition I had to deal with in my life. Others would have needs different from mine.

 

I have been challenged before to define where in the TTC there are any guidelines for living in today's world. That was a simple challenge to respond to. I enjoy speaking directly to our everyday life problems with examples of guides from Lao Tzu and Chuang Tzu so we can go there if anyone wishes.

 

 

Anyhow, that's the philosophy. Then we each, depending on our needs, add to that whatever satisfies our needs.

 

I enjoy reading your posts MH. If only I lived in Florida or you in Melbourne we could have Daoist discussions over some Chinese tea or warm sake

 

Regards FT

[Rocky Lionmouth]

Not many people talk about Lin Yutang. I really enjoyed his translation of Chuang Tzu.

 

Ah! He's done one? I only ever read the book about enjoying life (awesome dry humorism and research), seems i need to buckle down.

 

Link i posted was both decent and somewhat introductive/simplist but held a few key points anyway imo. Dunno if it helped.

[Rara]

I only ever read the book about enjoying life (awesome dry humorism and research)

*Goes straight to Google to find out about this author*

[Marblehead]

He's done one? I only ever read the book about enjoying life (awesome dry humorism and research), seems i need to buckle down. Link i posted was both decent and somewhat introductive/simplist but held a few key points anyway imo. Dunno if it helped.

Yes, he published a lot of stuff on many different subjects after arriving here in the States.

 

Here's a link to his Chuang Tzu:

 

http://terebess.hu/english/chuang.html

[Rocky Lionmouth]

Yes, he published a lot of stuff on many different subjects after arriving here in the States.

 

Here's a link to his Chuang Tzu:

 

http://terebess.hu/english/chuang.html

 

Gold!

[silent thunder]

Gold!

Agreed!

[dee]

Philosophical Taoism exists to question.

 

To question what you already know.

 

To point in a direction.

 

That's what I take from it at least.

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

I studied Philosophy intensely.

 

I read a very great many works, occidental and oriental, exoteric and esoteric.

 

Too many.

 

I read so much my head xploded.

 

Now, I remember.

 

I forget.

 

I remember.

 

My head empties and fills itself naturally.

 

It is quite strange, really.

 

Being one wid dao.

 

Language is not a property of higher thought.

 

One becomes less interested in book learning, and more interested in Praxis.

...

[silent thunder]

...

I studied Philosophy intensely.

 

I read a very great many works, occidental and oriental, exoteric and esoteric.

 

Too many.

 

I read so much my head xploded.

 

Now, I remember.

 

I forget.

 

I remember.

 

My head empties and fills itself naturally.

 

It is quite strange, really.

 

Being one wid dao.

 

Language is not a property of higher thought.

 

One becomes less interested in book learning, and more interested in Praxis.

...

my head empties and fills as well

 

the action of tao is like a bellows...

 

in...

out...

 

aaaaaah

[Marblehead]

Philosophical Taoism exists to question.

 

To question what you already know.

 

To point in a direction.

 

That's what I take from it at least.

Yes, to question. But I wonder, is it to question what we already know or is it to question what we think we already know?

 

We must even question our answers. That's mostly what I do here on this forum. I have my opinions and understandings and I freely share them here. I think it would be hard for anyone to find where I have said that these opinions and understandings of mine are "truths". More than anything else it is a challenge to everyone to show me where I need to reconsider my opinions and understandings.

 

Taoist philosophy is not a dogmatic philosophy where "man" has defined "truth". It is a philosophy of trying to understand how the nature of the universe has defined the truth. It is an attempt to understand the "Tzujan" of the "Ten Thousand Things".

[GrandmasterP]

+1 MH

' Truth' is a slippery concept at best and tends to arrive accompanied by questionable antecedents wherever it is claimed.

Whenever one is shown a finger pointing towards a claimed 'truth' it is advisable to also look in the opposite direction.

Seek to identify, the 'eloquently-silenced untruth' that the truth claimant is, possibly unwittingly; attempting to divert one's attention away from.

Edited April 13, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Rara]

+1 MH

' Truth' is a slippery concept at best and tends to arrive accompanied by questionable antecedents wherever it is claimed.

Whenever one is shown a finger pointing towards a claimed 'truth' it is advisable to also look in the opposite direction.

Seek to identify, the 'eloquently-silenced untruth' that the truth claimant is, possibly unwittingly; attempting to divert one's attention away from.

But isn't the moral to the story that the truth is there either way? It's just the pointing finger that is the issue...

 

(Doesn't this just sound like the other thread re replying on one's self rather than a teacher?) Hehe

[Rara]

I don't knock teachers though. They can always assist. But the real work needs to come from the student. It's the student who wants answers in the first place, after all.

[silent thunder]

Do not say you have found 'the' Truth...

Rather say you have found a truth...

[dee]

Yes, to question. But I wonder, is it to question what we already know or is it to question what we think we already know?

 

We must even question our answers. That's mostly what I do here on this forum. I have my opinions and understandings and I freely share them here. I think it would be hard for anyone to find where I have said that these opinions and understandings of mine are "truths". More than anything else it is a challenge to everyone to show me where I need to reconsider my opinions and understandings.

 

Taoist philosophy is not a dogmatic philosophy where "man" has defined "truth". It is a philosophy of trying to understand how the nature of the universe has defined the truth. It is an attempt to understand the "Tzujan" of the "Ten Thousand Things".

 

I don't really know. And maybe I don't really want to know. Can you really know?

[Marblehead]

I don't really know. And maybe I don't really want to know. Can you really know?

Hehehe. What a trick question that one is. To really know - 100% absolute.

 

I have stated in other threads that there are no absolutes. Therefore I must respond, No, I can never really know.

 

However, Pretty close generally satisfies our needs.

 

On this planet, anything that does not have an upward velosity of 7 miles per second or greater will fall to earth if not otherwise supported. This is why people cannot levitate. Change the size of the planet and the needed velosity would change as well.

 

This is why I regularly repeat my position that what I present on this forum are my opinions and understandings. For me, I know that these are my truths. I doubt anyone else on this planet would accept all my opinions and understandings. But they are close enough for me.

 

Someone said that knowledge is infinate and our mental capacities are limited. For the limited to try to know the infinate would be like pissing into the wind. Our pant legs are going to get wet.

Edited April 13, 2014 by Marblehead