Wu Wei 'non doing' meditation suggested in TTC? query

[GrandmasterP]

I'll bow to your insight ChiDragon as it really does put wu wei into a dynamic perspective as in 'actively doing no harm'..

I've been going on this wiki definition.....

"The literal meaning of wu wei is "without action", "without effort", or "without control".

Edited June 13, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Marblehead]

Let me refresh our memory ...

 

Don't be refreshing too much. There are some things I want to remain forgotten.

[GrandmasterP]

+1

Selective memory can indeed be most refreshing.

If I dragged up from 'deep memory' some of the snafoos and cock ups that I've perpetrated whilst bumbling through these past 62 years then life wouldn't seem nearly so jolly as it does.

F.I.B. = File In Basement.

( Did I mention that I was once married to a vampire?)

((((( shudders)))))

Edited June 13, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Marblehead]

( Did I mention that I was once married to a vampire?)

((((( shudders)))))

Hehehe. Yes, you have. I guess that one won't go away, will it?

[ChiDragon]

Don't be refreshing too much. There are some things I want to remain forgotten.

 

I only try to do that when something comes to a dead end. I will try to keep it at a minimal in the future.

[dawei]

That is Chuang Tzu. I don't accept the suggestion that Lieh Tzu was written before Chuang Tzu's time. Best evidence places him (or whoever wrote it) at third century CE. That would be nearly 600 years after Chuang Tzu.

 

Except ZZ quotes him... hard to live after him in that case.

[dawei]

"The literal meaning of wu wei is "without action", "without effort", or "without control".

 

It always needs a parenthetical for fuller understanding; no [intentional] action. There should be a spontaneity as is nature's way... harmful is not the issue as nature is harmful.

 

Adding in 'harmful' is subjective... depends on the subject and object too much.

 

It is action which is in accord with the flow of the moment.

 

Meditation gets us into that flow of the moment by becoming one with it. Once we can get rid of the distractions and advisors in our ear and mind telling us what to do... and we can think from our gut, the true energy source, lower dan tian, the red child (mentioned first by Laozi and a major part of The Central Scriptures of Laozi), then we are in accord with the flow of the momement. That's why Laozi spoke to these ideas.

[manitou]

How about finish off what the intended notion about Chapters 11 and 16 first, before, running off with other confusions....??? Where does say meditation takes place in these two chapters.

 

 

sorry folks - I didn't read all the way back and see the structure. My bad

[dawei]

That is Chuang Tzu. I don't accept the suggestion that Lieh Tzu was written before Chuang Tzu's time. Best evidence places him (or whoever wrote it) at third century CE. That would be nearly 600 years after Chuang Tzu.

 

I added info to the Liezi thread.... we can discuss Liezi there.

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/34940-the-lieh-tzu/?p=553770

[Marblehead]

I made my comment in that thread. Yes, over there is the best place to discuss him.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

The idea that "Taoist doctrine dictates not acting" is rather misled. "Just do it" a la Miyamoto Musashi (who the Nike ad execs were influenced by) also falls into the wu wei method. Following the seasons and planting your crops when the best time arrives is wu wei as well. It goes with the flow of heaven and earth.

 

Now that we have The Four Canons of the Yellow Emperor, there is much to be reconsidered about the scope of what these concepts really mean, imho.

[Guest zgoat]

Goats

Edited August 10, 2014 by zgoat

[opendao]

Because in this thread I see nothing about what Wuwei really means in DDJ and in Neidan, and also some weird statements about "wuwei meditation", I'm reposting a quote made by Daeluin. Maybe somebody will get that it has no relation for numerous guesses and confusions made about wuwei...

 

 

Liu Yiming, Cultivating the Tao, Pregadio:

 

Quote

As for those who have not understood the discourses about "non-doing" (wuwei), some guard the Yellow Court, and others concentrate on their fontanel; some concentrate on the top of their nose, and others contemplate the Hall of Light; some guard the point below the navel, and others concentrate on the Spinal Handle; some contemplate emptiness, and others contemplate the mind; some stop their thoughts, and others forget their forms; some silently have audience with the Supreme Emperor, others reflect their form in a mirror and coagulate their Spirit, and others concentrate on their Spirit in order to "exit the Shell."

 

There are more than one thousand methods like these. Although their motives are not identical, they all stick to emptiness in the same way. If you think that this is the Way or "non-doing," you are greatly in error.

 

Sticking to emptiness and clinging to phenomenal appearances is like embellishing a stinky leather bag with needlework, or being fond of a pouch filled with holes. How can those people know that the great Way of the sages and the worthies does not stick to emptiness, does not cling to phenomenal appearances, and lies in what is neither emptiness nor form?

 

.........

 

"Non-doing" does not refer to the discourses about looking like "withered wood" or "cold ashes." Essentially, if you do not possess the True Seed, you must adopt a method in order to take hold of it. Once you possess it, the Original Root returns. Then you should hasten to strengthen it and fortify it, to seal it and store it; you will have to "bathe" and "nourish warmly," to avoid the dangers and ponder the perils, in order to protect the wholeness of that Original Root. Otherwise, you will suffer again from its loss. If you are able to do this, you will have "a body outside your body" and your Spirit will pervade throughout. "In utter sincerity there is foreknowledge": will there be anything you do not know?

[Daeluin]

Cultivating the Tao

 

There's a bit more here, mostly regarding xing and ming. But doing and non-doing refer to methods of cultivating xing and ming:

 

 

 

.........

 

 

From this we know that superior virtue and inferior virtue are not to be considered with regard to the postcelestial, but with regard to the precelestial. When the precelestial is intact, that is superior virtue, and when the precelestial is lacking, that is inferior virtue. This is the proper conclusion.

 

Then there are those who do not understand the Great Tao. They either say that [ming] is more important and [xing] is less important, or that [xing] is more important and [ming] is less important. This is all wrong. [Xing] and [ming] must be cultivated together, but in the practice there should be two stages. In superior virtue, there is no need to cultivate [ming] and one just cultivates [xing]: when [xing] is fulfilled, then [ming] is also fulfilled. In inferior virtue, one must first cultivate [ming] and then cultivate [xing]; after [ming] is fulfilled, one must also fulfill [xing]. Fulfilling [ming] is "doing," fulfilling [xing] is "non-doing."

 

 

 

The Ways of "doing" and "non-doing" are established to provide a starting point to those who possess superior virtue or inferior virtue. When one comes to full achieving the Great Tao, not only does the operation of "doing" not apply, but also the operation of "non-doing" does not apply. When one reaches the highest step there is a different wondrous operation, but it does not pertain to either "doing" or "non-doing."

 

If students do not know the discourses about superior virtue and inferior virtue, and right away seek teaching about "doing" and "non-doing," how can they know the true "doing" and the true "non-doing"? Without knowing the true "doing" and the true "non-doing," not only would they be unable to keep their [xing] intact, but they would also be unable to protect their [ming].

 

The relative status of [xing] and [ming] entirely derives from the distinction between superior virtue and inferior virtue. How could students not investigate this in depth?

 

In this context, the wu wei is the turning of the light around so that it does not burn up or become contaminated, even as in turning it around it merges ever more deeply with the ming, and to the root of heaven and earth. The ming has been completed by doing, and the xing protects it by turning around and integrating with it so it is not lost, even as in turning around the xing completes itself. Thus: When one reaches the highest step there is a different wondrous operation, but it does not pertain to either "doing" or "non-doing." Doing and non-doing are a vehicle.

 

But also, my working understanding is that wu-wei needs to be constant and consistent, and thus must be explored through all of life's ups and downs, not simply during isolated meditation sessions. The non-doing refers to the avoidance of making use of the power which is being nourished, so that one does not part from the root and is able to be cultivated to completion, but flows harmoniously with all one encounters. Thus it helps to have cultivated an inner momentum throughout the seasons of harmony and flowing with a natural rhythm. If you get in the way of others and create much dissonance, it may be difficult to maintain the state of wu-wei as life continues to present you with the type of challenge you have invited. In any case, one is learning to maintain the state of wholeness under many different types of pressure, as one strengthens and fortifies the root, to seal it and store it.

 

And this is all very related to the Mysterious Pass/Female/Barrier and the Golden elixir:

 

The Spirit of the Valley never dies:
it is called Mysterious-Female.
The gate of the Mysterious-Female
is called root of Heaven and Earth.

[dawei]

Cultivating the Tao

 

There's a bit more here, mostly regarding xing and ming. But doing and non-doing refer to methods of cultivating xing and ming:

 

I raised that to OpenDao here... but I think it got lost in the pages... that entire thread is worth a read

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/32430-neidan-vs-qigong/?p=494600

 

Do you also equate this to 'doing' is foundational work or even Qigong and 'non-doing' is the alchemy work of Ming and Xing?

[Daeluin]

16 - Hu Xuezhi, Revealing the Tao Te Ching:

 

 

To quiet down the heart to stay at a constant stillness,

To settle down the heart to remain in infinite emptiness,

All the myriad things are involved in constant motion, but I just gaze

into emptiness to unintentionally wait for the coming of the Mysterious Pass.

Yes, though all things flourish with myriad variations,

each one will eventually return to the very root of birth and death.

To return to the root needs constant stillness.

Only by staying in constant stillness can Congenital Nature be recovered.

To fully recover Congenital Nature is called Chang.

To know Chang is called enlightenment.

To not know Chang and to act blindly will result in disaster.

Only knowing Chang, can one tolerate all,

Only tolerating all, can one be impartial.

By being impartial, can one be all-accommodating,

By being all-accommodating, one can equal Heaven,

By equaling Heaven, one can accomplish Tao, which lasts without death.

Only by accomplishing Tao, can one be rid of death and birth,

lasting eternally without any danger.

 

In the introduction:

 

In the Tao Te Ching, the term WuWei (which means "doing nothing at all" in Chinese) appears often. In fact, WuWei is the general principle that practitioners should hold onto for reversing the current of life. What is the true meaning of WuWei? Some people may explain it as "taking no action" or "taking no acquired action." However, the true meaning of the term is to hold onto Congenital Nature and leave all the eight Cognitive Shen alone to function no more.

 

For serious practitioners, they should first achieve the state of no birth. Then, after a long time in resting in a constant state of stillness, they must, in a natural way, conceive a fetus of the True Self (also called the Magic Self) between the newly created Heaven and Earth, which is set up before our birth.

 

Cleansing the heart of all desires and emotions and remaining silent in the depths of emptiness and stillness, but not as an insensate blank, the wise replenish the Primeval Qi and restore Congenital Nature resolutely and constantly. So, out of spontaneity, the Golden Elixir pellet will eventually come forth naturally. The Golden Elixir is also called the Great Unification.

 

Even though the Tao Te Ching appears to predate the use of the terms Xing and Ming in alchemy, it is interesting that this translation uses the concepts of Primeval Qi and Congenital Nature as Ming and Xing. And thus the same meaning of using non-doing in relation to cultivating the Xing as from Cultivating the Tao may be found in 16.

 

Without acting blindly, yet tolerating all, being impartial and all-accommodating, we cultivate our Xing by using WuWei to follow the principles of Heavenly operation -- even in the midst of myriad things in constant motion. And thus in equaling Heaven we are able to fully cultivate our Xing back to completeness and transcend beyond Heaven to reach the Tao.

Edited August 7, 2014 by Daeluin

[opendao]

Do you also equate this to 'doing' is foundational work or even Qigong and 'non-doing' is the alchemy work of Ming and Xing?

 

qigong has no relation to "doing" or "non-doing", only in Neidan they have a meaning.

[Daeluin]

Edited August 7, 2014 by Daeluin