"unity in diversity" ?

[3bob]

There is that saying, "unity in diversity", but I only see that being true if one has attained a transcendent reality that is free of the diverse effects and divisions existent in diversity by living in and acting from a non-dualistic reality! Thus and in effect we have a nice sounding platitude since most "spiritual masters" and or schools are dedicated to maintaining and propagating their own separate divisions and or special interests separate from "unity" thus imo the saying mostly has to be taken conditionally and not literally or unconditionally.

 

Your take?

Edited April 13, 2014 by 3bob

[GrandmasterP]

That is or was the motto of the Unitarian Church in the UK

http://www.derbyunitarians.org.uk/unity_in_diversity.html

but it's is unlikely ( IMO) to be heard from the lips of any 'faith path' booster round these here parts.

Hence all the different sectarian threads over on DW for example.

Rival guru boosters elsewhere boost their own guy.

Something to suit everyone over at Sarlo's Guru Guide.

Any amount of various paths n products are on offer here on TTB.

No business that hoped to thrive would ever advertise its rival's products.

Hence I reckon your ' Unity in Diversity' is a non starter as far as spiritualities are concerned.

Each to her or his own.

Edited April 13, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Jeff]

There is that saying, "unity in diversity", but I only see that being true if one has attained a transcendent reality that is free of the diverse effects and divisions existent in diversity by living in and acting from a non-dualistic reality! Thus and in effect we have a nice sounding platitude since most "spiritual masters" and or schools are dedicated to maintaining and propagating their own separate divisions and or special interests separate from "unity" thus imo the saying mostly has to be taken conditionally and not literally or unconditionally.

 

Your take?

 

I would agree. Even those who truly do realize the "light" rarely move beyond and are able to discriminate various aspects of the light. Without such discrimation, one often gets trapped in the perception of their path/tradition.

 

Best wishes.

[TzuJanLi]

There is what is.. we experience multiplicity, and conceive oneness.. we do not experience oneness, because there is a 'we' that is doing the experiencing.. we do not conceive multiplicity, we acknowledge it..

 

We are parts of a greater whole, greater by the synergy of its included parts...

[forestofclarity]

I don't think there needs to be anything mysterious or difficult about it. Most of us would agree that the body is a unity, although the hand is quite different from the foot. So while the organs and limbs are diverse, there is "unity is diversity".

[silent thunder]

My body is a unity of billions of individuals. Hundreds of thousands of colonies. Millions of tribes.

My thoughts are myriad and yet.

 

I am as continuous with the universe, as a wave is continuous with the ocean.

 

who is i?

[Marblehead]

But 3Bob, isn't there unity in all dualities? Beautiful and ugly. These are but the two extremes of a continuum that we have defined. But the unity resides within the concept and the duality itself. Drop the extremes and the concept and the duality itself will evaporate and all that is left is "what is", a unity, if you will.

[TzuJanLi]

My body is a unity of billions of individuals. Hundreds of thousands of colonies. Millions of tribes.

My thoughts are myriad and yet.

 

I am as continuous with the universe, as a wave is continuous with the ocean.

 

who is i?

I am as continuous with Life as an ocean is with water, as a snowflake is with water, as a raindrop is with water, as a mud puddle is with water..

 

I am that which experiences its existence through me, as me, an independently functioning version of 'that' which 'is'..

[Spotless]

I think some of the reasons for teachers of schools staying close to the cuff so to speak is not one so much of survival or self centeredness as one might suppose - it's not the " AhHa - you guys are out for yourself" moment.

 

I have had the great good fortune to be involved with the International interfaith Counsel and some of the larger gatherings.

The sharing is considerable and quite a number of teachers are from a swath of teachings. This is even more true now as we are seeing a very sharp rise in Awakening.

 

I think one of the very good reasons teachers are "plugging" their own teaching (an many don't, but their students do) is that at some some point Seekers need to land somewhere and sort things out, receive clarity and acclimate.

 

Most teachings take about 2 or more years to settle into and understand the language of the teaching let alone some of the higher aspects. Even the "all American esoteric schools" have a pile of specific language peculiarities, even if they don't include Indian, Chinese and other non-native terms.

 

On another note - if you follow any of the "great teachings" to awakening it is hard not to notice they are almost identical on many fronts. Perhaps not so much on the outside but the inside work plays out nearly the same. The great teachers will still look you personally in the eye and say "you have the answer". They will all look at you and laugh - knowing that your persona is certainly not the god they are talking to and they will try to coax that god in you to awakening.

Edited April 14, 2014 by Spotless

[3bob]

I think some of the reasons for teachers of schools staying close to the cuff so to speak is not one so much of survival or self centeredness as one might suppose - it's not the " AhHa - you guys are out for yourself" moment.

 

I have had the great good fortune to be involved with the International interfaith Counsel and some of the larger gatherings.

The sharing is considerable and quite a number of teachers are from a swath of teachings. This is even more true now as we are seeing a very sharp rise in Awakening.

 

I think one of the very good reasons teachers are "plugging" their own teaching (an many don't, but their students do) is that at some some point Seekers need to land somewhere and sort things out, receive clarity and acclimate.

 

Most teachings take about 2 or more years to settle into and understand the language of the teaching let alone some of the higher aspects. Even the "all American esoteric schools" have a pile of specific language peculiarities, even if they don't include Indian, Chinese and other non-native terms.

 

On another note - if you follow any of the "great teachings" to awakening it is hard not to notice they are almost identical on many fronts. Perhaps not so much on the outside but the inside work plays out nearly the same. The great teachers will still look you personally in the eye and say "you have the answer". They will all look at you and laugh - knowing that your persona is certainly not the god they are talking to and they will try to coax that god in you to awakening.

 

with the mention of "god" (and or its meaning) would you say that then leaves out all or basically most of Buddhism because of its key teachings?

Edited April 14, 2014 by 3bob

[3bob]

I am as continuous with Life as an ocean is with water, as a snowflake is with water, as a raindrop is with water, as a mud puddle is with water..

 

I am that which experiences its existence through me, as me, an independently functioning version of 'that' which 'is'..

 

"that which is" is without divisions and thus transcendent to and free of the itineration's that make up diversity.

[3bob]

But 3Bob, isn't there unity in all dualities? Beautiful and ugly. These are but the two extremes of a continuum that we have defined. But the unity resides within the concept and the duality itself. Drop the extremes and the concept and the duality itself will evaporate and all that is left is "what is", a unity, if you will.

 

wouldn't that be the same as dropping relative reality or the iteration's of the manifest, then there would be no beings, minds or souls to talk about this stuff. Further if that which already is already knows or is "what is" then why not leave it at that? (since the meaning is that nothing is ever gained or lost by no-thing or "what is" ?)

[Spotless]

 

with the mention of "god" (and or its meaning) would you say that then leaves out all or basically most of Buddhism because of its key teachings?

 

Quite the opposite - I do not usually use the word god for the very reason you came to ask the question - it has so much energy on it - in its place put Buddha nature or ?

 

I would leave out nearly all of the large religions but none of what I consider the Great Teachings.

Let's just say many of them do not share the idea of Awakening or they need a teacher from something such as a Buddhist tradition to point out how far off the original track they have wandered. They are mummified versions of original content cut and pasted so often that a real mystic from a real teaching is needed to decider their quotes because their own hierarchy is completely bewildered by its own arrogance.

Edited April 15, 2014 by Spotless

[doc benway]

There is that saying, "unity in diversity", but I only see that being true if one has attained a transcendent reality that is free of the diverse effects and divisions existent in diversity by living in and acting from a non-dualistic reality! Thus and in effect we have a nice sounding platitude since most "spiritual masters" and or schools are dedicated to maintaining and propagating their own separate divisions and or special interests separate from "unity" thus imo the saying mostly has to be taken conditionally and not literally or unconditionally.

 

Your take?

From a relative view, there is diversity and little evidence of unity.

From an absolute perspective, there is always, only beginningless and ceaseless unity, filled with the wonder and beauty of spontaneously arising diversity.

In my limited experience, true teachers are maintaining and propagating their systems in an effort to offer one possible avenue to assist people on their paths because that particular path worked for them (the teacher). They are aware of, and make clear, the fact that there are as many valid paths as there are pilgrims and that no one path is best. They are also in a position where they can adapt their path to the needs of others. Different strokes for different folks.

The saying "unity in diversity" is true and probably not terribly useful in assisting people to recognize it's truth.

When one sees truth, it is clear and obvious, and from there this type of saying arises.

Until then, saying things like this can be an annoyance and even a hindrance to those who don't yet see it...

 

Edited for multiple grammatical and spelling blunders...

Edited April 14, 2014 by steve

[Marblehead]

wouldn't that be the same as dropping relative reality or the iteration's of the manifest, then there would be no beings, minds or souls to talk about this stuff. Further if that which already is already knows or is "what is" then why not leave it at that? (since the meaning is that nothing is ever gained or lost by no-thing or "what is" ?)

Well, I tried. Hehehe.

[3bob]

Quite the opposite - I do not usually use the word god for the very reason you came to ask the question - it has so much energy on it - in its place put Buddha nature or ? I would leave out nearly all of the large religions but none of what I consider the Great Teachings. Let's just say many of them do not share the idea of Awakening or they need a teacher from something such as a Buddhist tradition to point out how far off the original track they have wondered. They are mummified versions of original content cut and pasted so often that a real mystic from a real teaching is needed to decider their quotes because their own hierarchy is completely bewildered by its own arrogance.

 

Actually there are many mystics (over thousands of years) who have zero problem with the term "god" or "God" and its common meaning, while Buddhist doctrine is unconcerned with or even anti-God, or from a certain pov. one might say in denial of god thus those that profess Buddhist doctrine are in effect standing against many other mystics that have realized "God". By the way, there are never ending debates among Buddhists themselves of a so called mystic nature (as in all their different schools and teachers per such variations) as to what Buddha nature really means...(?) and in recognizing that fact which is also and often in effect among many other types of paths (besides Buddhism and "God" paths) which results in a condition where most "mystics" are more or less in the same problematic and non-unified boat as many non-mystics. (although in some cases such may be a little or a lot more subtle - but that is often the only difference)

Edited April 14, 2014 by 3bob

[idiot_stimpy]

Is diversity just a perception?

[GrandmasterP]

Is diversity just a perception?

 

Or unity for that matter?

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

We are all one.

 

Union.

 

Jon Anderson the great Guru knows this.

 

I call him Olias.

 

Sometimes I call upon him for aid.

 

For I am of the lineage of Olias.

 

...

 

 

...

 

 

Enter the Mind Drive now.

...

 

 

 

[TzuJanLi]

"that which is" is without divisions and thus transcendent to and free of the itineration's that make up diversity.

What does that mean? Do you believe that because you say or think those words that they come true? Why do you choose to believe in limitations of what ' 'that which is' can be.. it can be parts/whole/both/neither, let go of what you think 'is' is, and it will reveal itself to you, through you, as you.. expectations and preconceptions distort the clarity of still mind's awareness, creating illusions about what 'is' is..

[3bob]

What does that mean? Do you believe that because you say or think those words that they come true? Why do you choose to believe in limitations of what ' 'that which is' can be.. it can be parts/whole/both/neither, let go of what you think 'is' is, and it will reveal itself to you, through you, as you.. expectations and preconceptions distort the clarity of still mind's awareness, creating illusions about what 'is' is..

 

 

That which changes is not that which doesn't change, for if such were so then all would be the "vanity of vanities".

[TzuJanLi]

That which changes is not that which doesn't change, for if such were so then all would be the "vanity of vanities".

 

That which changes and that which doesn't change are the same, they are your ideas/beliefs about that which is actually happening.. still the mind, and 'vanities' vanish, and clarity emerges..

[3bob]

That which changes and that which doesn't change are the same, they are your ideas/beliefs about that which is actually happening.. still the mind, and 'vanities' vanish, and clarity emerges..

 

nope, although a connection yes.

Edited April 15, 2014 by 3bob

[Marblehead]

Hehehe. I see here another discussion of subjectivity vs objectivity.

 

Tao is dynamic therefore it cannot be said that there is anything that does not change.

 

And then, even the perception of the universe by humans is limited by the capabilities and capacities of the human animal.

 

Yes, there is diversity. Yes, there is unity. But even thes states change. Once there was Singularity but now there are the Ten Thousand Things.

[3bob]

Hehehe. I see here another discussion of subjectivity vs objectivity.

 

Tao is dynamic therefore it cannot be said that there is anything that does not change.

 

And then, even the perception of the universe by humans is limited by the capabilities and capacities of the human animal.

 

Yes, there is diversity. Yes, there is unity. But even thes states change. Once there was Singularity but now there are the Ten Thousand Things.

 

Well hello Mr. MH,

If one refers to chapter 25 of the TTC one will find, "Standing alone without change", (John Wu translation)

yet I agree with you about the dynamic side or connection of things which is alluded to through the itineration's of The One, The two, The Three, etc.. (and that first connection point and how it can be or work along with other proceeding connections are also a great mystery!)

Edited April 15, 2014 by 3bob