Apparent Reality VS Reality

[DreamBliss]

This is something I wanted to share from my blog. The original post is here:

http://adifferentpath.blog.com/2014/04/13/apparent-reality-vs-reality/

 

I am reading Adyashanti’s “Falling Into Grace” and at first this text was really speaking to me. But then the author started talking about “accepting what is” and how some things are “immovable and unchangeable.” I disagree, 100%, with this belief. I can easily demonstrate why.

 

All around me are walls and windows. Someone like Adyashanti may say that the reality is that these objects are solid. You can’t go through a closed window or a wall. That is reality. But this is a false statement.

 

There is another reality, that the windows and the walls are made of particles and space. That these particles vibrate at a certain frequency, and this is the same frequency my physical form vibrates at. As a result my hand won’t go through a wall because of this vibration.

 

But there is also yet another reality, that I can affect my body with my mind, so if I could affect the vibrational rate of my body, then I could, theoretically, walk right through a wall or a closed window.

 

All these “realities” are really only “apparent realities.” Accepting the “reality” of the solidity of closed windows and walls is not really accepting reality. It is accepting a belief about reality. That such things are solid. In truth nothing is immovable or unchangeable, or else it would be perfect. Another author said it best, something along the lines of, “It is only real if it never changes.”

 

I think it is as foolish to accept an unwanted apparent reality as it would be to fight against it. In fighting what appears to be real we are, in essence, giving it power over us. We are making it more real for us. But in accepting it as real we give it the same power. We never challenge it. By letting things be as they are we are essentially saying that is is OK for these things to be the way they are, when maybe it is not OK. If we are going to accept, admit and allow we should accept, admit and allow everything, including when something is not OK.

 

A Buddhist monk who sits there as someone prepares to shoot them or cut them in half with a sword because that is the reality of the situation is foolish. They are not giving value to either their life or the life of the one about to perpetuate the act, as every action has a consequence, and murder has a consequence in the life of someone who commits it. The monk should defend themselves or run off. Because it is only an apparent reality that they are about to be killed. As they aren’t dead yet, it is not real. They have just as much chance to escape, or win their freedom, as they do of being killed.

 

The apparent reality in our American cities is that here are many homeless people. It is foolish for us to simply accept that and say, “Oh well, that’s just how things are.” No, the truth is that this is how you believe things are, and how other people in society believe things are, but this is not the reality, only a collective belief in an apparent reality.

 

Going out there to feed and clothe the homeless also enforces the apparent reality of homelessness. Because the energy of service draws more service to it, so in truth you create more homelessness by serving the homeless. Also fighting against homeless, trying to remove them from the streets, will only give the apparent reality of homelessness more power.

 

I think what we have to do here, in this example, is accept the apparent reality of homeless, but not in any way invests belief energy into this state. We acknowledge it appears to be real, that homeless people have come into our sphere of awareness. Then I think the next step is to look inside ourselves. What is being reflected to us outside is showing us something wrong inside, inside each of us individually and inside society collectively.

 

Addressing whatever it is that is allowing homelessness to appear is how to address the issue of homelessness. Our beliefs about apparent reality that we actually believe are reality, our beliefs about society, our beliefs about the individual’s place in society – these are where the issue of homelessness has been given birth, and until we address this, no matter how much we serve the homeless or throw them off our street homelessness will continue to appear. It points to a flaw in society itself. Exactly as sap coming from a sawn limb points to an injury in the tree, or blood coming form a wound points to an injury in the body.

 

In the case of our Buddhist monk, an even better tactic of non-resistance is to not even resist the bullet or sword blade! Really! The only way a bullet can pierce or a sword blade can cut is because of our beliefs in what bullets and sword blades can do. These beliefs are reflected in our bodies. We believe the bullet can hurt us, we believe the sword blade can hurt us, so these things can hurt us. But remember, this us apparent reality. It seems to be enforced by all we know about the world around us. But it is not true reality.

 

In truth the monk can make his body non-resistant to bullets and blades, so that both would simply pass through, leaving them unaffected. It only requires mental training of the ability to use one’s mind to change the vibrational state of the body. Monks are already most of the way there. They have exceptional mental clarity. In some cases they have exceptional body control. This is just the next step in the natural progress of their training.

 

It is not about defying reality. It is about defying apparent reality. This is done without any kind of seeking, including the seeking of control, and any kind of struggling. You accept what appears to be real, but you also know, with every fiber of your being, that it is only apparently real, that it is not necessarily what is truly real. You become non-resistant to apparent reality, but in this acceptance and non-resistance you still challenge it.

 

You test it. You ask, is this really real, or is it only apparently real? Do I really know for sure that I can’t walk through this wall or allow the blade to go through me? You can’t honestly say you know this for sure. You can’t honestly say that you have learned everything you need to learn to walk through a wall or allow a blade to pass through you. You can’t honestly say you know everything you need to know. You can’t honestly say you have tried everything there is to try. You can’t honestly say you are no longer investing belief energy into apparent reality somewhere. You may still have deeply ingrained beliefs about apparent reality from society, your family or your culture.

 

An example is needed here, and we will use the Bible, which may be a fable, or may be false, but for now we will assume that all accounts are true and that there is hidden ,meaning we may not have uncovered yet. Jesus stepped out of a boat and onto the surface of lake or sea, during a storm. He walked on water! The apparent reality is that water is not solid, that you will sink, and when one of his disciples tried it, they started to sink. For a moment they stood on the water as they forgot apparent reality, seeing Jesus out there, walking around, but then their beliefs about apparent reality, literally, began to sink in!

 

But Jesus invested no energy in apparent reality. He did not fight the water or the waves. He probably did not fight opposing beliefs. He probably accepted everything, allowed everything, but invested no energy at all into apparent reality. So he stepped out and walked on water. If Jesus could walk on water, we can too. We can walk through walls and let blades pass through us. We simply have to invest our belief energy into knowing, having faith, we can, rather than in the apparent reality that we can’t.

 

Everything Jesus did, everything Buddha did, we can do, and more, without exception. We are limited only by our beliefs. Our thoughts do affect reality, but not directly. First we have a thought, then we choose to believe in that thought or not, then if we have chosen to believe in it the thought it affects our perception of reality.

 

Jesus probably had a thought such as, “water is not solid, you can’t walk on that, everyone knows that!” but he chose not to believe in it. He chose another thought, probably something like, “Through my father I can do anything, even walk on water.” He believed that thought and stepped out, knowing that the water was a surface he could walk on, and as a result he was able to walk on water. It was not a miracle. It was just a different thought, belief and perception.

 

A teacher like Adyashanti seems to be saying, unless I am misunderstanding him, that we are powerless. That there are things we can’t change, that we can’t control. I say that is absolute bullshit. I say that seeking to control and change things will lead to suffering, same as any seeking, and in that aspect he is correct. I say that accepting apparent reality (and it is all apparent reality at this stage, because it is always changing, all the time) is as foolish as struggling against it. Both approaches give apparent reality power, and take it away from you.

 

I say that you are not powerless, that you can control and change things. But you don’t do it through seeking or struggle. You change things by seeing them as they appear to be, as they present themselves to you, and then simply choosing not to invest your energy there anymore. Whatever the truth, you have an energy in you that is the same energy in everyone else and the whole of creation. You can interact with that energy using your thoughts, solidify that energy using your beliefs, and through your perception experience that energy in any way you wish.

 

Here is an even simpler, parting example… Someone comes up to you and spits in your face. You have a thought about this experience. From these thoughts you choose what to believe and that determines your response. If in your culture it is an honor to be spat upon, you have a though that this is an honor, and you smile and say thank you. If you are a descendent of Irish settlers in South Bronx you have a thought that this asshole is insulting you, and you punch him into next week. If you smile at all it’s to show all your teeth in a threatening gesture. If you are a Buddhist Monk you will probably have the same thought as the Irishman, but will still smile lovingly at the person who spat on you.

 

In this example, whatever you chose to do, you had a choice of action. Thoughts came, you chose which ones to grab onto and then you choose to invest energy into the corresponding belief. That belief, in turn, had a direct effect on your perception of reality. You chose to be honored, insulted, or to simply accept it as what is. You determine what is real for you, which is in fact only an apparent reality. This is your power,, to choose what beliefs you will put energy into, and this will directly affect your experience of apparent reality through your perception of it.

Edited April 13, 2014 by DreamBliss

[dee]

But there is also yet another reality, that I can affect my body with my mind, so if I could affect the vibrational rate of my body, then I could, theoretically, walk right through a wall or a closed window.

 

No. You cannot.

 

Although, no one is stopping you from believing it.

Edited April 14, 2014 by dee

[Tibetan_Ice]

Dreambliss,

I stay away from Adyashanti. He does not have the skill to differentiate between the levels of realization and often mixes them together, confusing his audience and appearing foolish. One such thing he said that made me drop any respect for his blabberings is when he said that after while all practices no longer work.

 

Dee, you should read more Buddhist books!

 

Like "As It Is II 2"

 

This is why miracles are possible. When the display of deluded mind vanishes at the moment of enlightenment, one realizes that ordinary appearances are merely illusion. The realized yogi is not burned by fire. He can walk on water and traverse solid matter. An ordinary person like us is certain to get burned by fire, blown away by the wind, and drowned in water. How does a yogi manage to experience these in a different way? Because buddha mind doesn’t hold onto anything, appearances can’t cause any harm. That is why we are told again and again: don’t grasp at anything, don’t fixate on anything. Simply recognize the state of rigpa and become stable in it. Dzogchen training is all about exactly this. The ability to perform miracles doesn’t happen by glimpsing the awakened state just once or twice. It happens only when you attain stability in rigpa, in the essence of mind. Stability in rigpa is the reason all the great masters of India and Tibet were unable to be harmed by fire, crushed by mountains or drowned by water. This is not the case of merely a few masters — there were many, many accomplished beings.

 

There is a song by the Tibetan Master Götsangpa:3 All these appearances are deceptive trickery. This relative reality is like a magical show. The rock behind my back is transparent.

 

A yogi like Götsangpa could traverse freely through solid rock, like the mountain behind my hermitage. Why, because he attained stability in rigpa. It wasn’t that he was so strong that he could force his way through the mountain. It is because in actuality all appearances are a magical trickery. In Götsangpa’s experience, all fixation was brought to exhaustion.

 

 

 

[dee]

Dreambliss, I stay away from Adyashanti. He does not have the skill to differentiate between the levels of realization and often mixes them together, confusing his audience and appearing foolish. One such thing he said that made me drop any respect for his blabberings is when he said that after while all practices no longer work. Dee, you should read more Buddhist books! Like "As It Is II 2"

 

Why? Because I disagree that humans can walk through solid windows/walls?

Edited April 14, 2014 by dee

[Seeker of Wisdom]

But there is also yet another reality, that I can affect my body with my mind, so if I could affect the vibrational rate of my body, then I could, theoretically, walk right through a wall or a closed window.

Actually if you turned off the strong nuclear force in your body, your subatomic particles would zip apart as nothing would be holding them together.

 

I'm not saying things like walking through walls are absolutely definitely impossible. They may be child's play at high stages of realisation. But be sceptical!

 

This 'if you believe it will happen' LOA stuff is just not true. Why do schizophrenics who truly believe they can fly not fly if this is true?

 

In our current state, there are things we can't do! Your points about changing things like homelessness are wise points though.

Edited April 14, 2014 by Seeker of Tao

[DreamBliss]

Dee

I would like to challenge your thinking. I am not attacking you, nor am I trying to force anything on you.

 

You say that humans can not walk through solid windows/walls. I will assume that this is also something you believe. That this is reality for you. If I am wrong feel free to correct me.

 

OK, now let's challenge what you "know." First of all have you ever tried walking through a solid window or wall? If you haven't even tried it, you really have no right to claim that it is not possible.

 

Assuming that you have tried this and presumably failed, have you taken any time to ask yourself where this belief came from. Is it truly your belief, or did you pick it up somewhere?

 

Finally have you looked for and met anyone who claims to have this ability to walk through solid matter? It is easy to say it is not possible because you have not done it, but have you put any effort into watching someone else try to do it?

 

Because if you haven't, you can't honestly say it is not possible, because as long as there is one person outside yourself that you have not seen try and fail at this, the possibility remains that people can walk through solid matter.

 

Finally have you studied any science or physics? What does the latest scientific studies tell you about matter? Do they completely eliminate any possibility of someone walking through solid matter? Is this truly outside the realm of science?

 

I warn you emphatically and lovingly to be very careful about what you choose to believe. Your beliefs set the limits for your experience of reality. There are things out there that defy mankind's definition of reality. They even defy mankind's current scientific knowledge. You can choose to close yourself off to these things, that is your choice. But before you do, ask yourself if you are truly happy with what your family, friends and society define as reality, AKA what's possible.

 

Seeker of Tao

"This 'if you believe it will happen' LOA stuff is just not true. Why do schizophrenics who truly believe they can fly not fly if this is true?"

 

I am not any kind of medical professional, assuming a medical professional knows more about the human body and mind than I do. But my guess would be that, assuming your statement is true, a schizophrenic doesn't fly because somewhere, deep down inside, there is still the belief that they can not fly, that humans do not fly because they do not have wings. This is one of those societal beliefs, programmed into us when we are very young.

 

These beliefs may even go back further, and be embedded in our DNA. A sort of species knowledge every individual of every race is born with. Birds are born, more than likely, knowing they can fly. Probably more automatic than that. Somehow there is no question of flight for them. And humans are born with the opposite. For us its not flying but walking. Just a natural tendency I guess.

 

When a schizophrenic gets up on a ledge or something and prepares to jump off, my guess is that whatever their conscious belief, there is something subconscious or subject that prevents them from taking off. Also lets not forget a human doesn't have the equipment. Has anyone created a functioning pair of wings and placed them on a schizophrenic who thinks they can fly? Try that and get back to me with the results. My guess is that their conscious belief will override the subjective or subconscious, and they will flap away like they were born into it!

 

Question... What is LAO and why do you say what you do about it? I am curious as to the apparent Christian and Buddhist belief system of powerlessness, that an individual is not in control, that some things should be accepted as they are, etc.

Edited April 14, 2014 by DreamBliss

[Marblehead]

Dee, you should read more Buddhist books!

Reading some Nietzsche might help too. (But then, maybe not.)

[Brian]

Which crumb is the true essence of a crumbcake?

 

 

 

Does deep reflection upon this question affect the crumbcake?

Edited April 14, 2014 by Brian

[Seeker of Wisdom]

LOA = law of attraction, 'The Secret'.

 

my guess would be that, assuming your statement is true, a schizophrenic doesn't fly because somewhere, deep down inside, there is still the belief that they can not fly

Making your hypothesis unfalsifiable. No matter what happens, you will never accept proof that more than belief is needed to make someone able to fly - you will just claim there's still a bit of subconscious doubt stopping them. You can always do that, no matter what, and there's no way to test it.

 

Have you put any thought into critically considering your beliefs?

 

Consider colour-blind people. Often they don't realise they're colour-blind, until they don't see a precise pattern in precisely coloured shapes that someone else does and points out to them. This may not happen for years.

 

They would believe that they weren't colour-blind until then, as they had no way of realising it themselves. Believing you aren't colour-blind is the default position, there is no innate concept of such a thing as colour-blindness.

 

So if beliefs are as powerful as you claim, how can anyone ever actually be colour-blind? And if beliefs aren't powerful enough to simply adjust some cone cells, how could they alone make a whole body defy gravity?

 

I am curious as to the apparent Christian and Buddhist belief system of powerlessness, that an individual is not in control, that some things should be accepted as they are, etc.

I'm not sure why you take such a black and white stance of either i) we can do anything if we believe we can or ii) we are powerless.

 

We are in control of what we are able to be in control of. Implication - perhaps developed people can fly, teleport, etc.

 

But my stance is that such abilities, if they are true, do not come about solely through believing that you have them. There is a difference between person X with high development able to fly and knowing that they can because they've done it and person Y with mental problems believing they can because they're delusional.

 

If you cannot control something, acceptance is a better option than false hope. If you are falling off a skyscraper, what are you really going to do about it, really? Accepting what you can't control means you can constructively deal with expected and unexpected issues - for example, sorting out your will and life insurance rather than telling yourself you won't die.

Edited April 14, 2014 by Seeker of Tao

[Jetsun]

All Adyashanti usually says is that it is useless to fight in your mind against the way things are, I don't often hear him say much about the way things are or that anything is “immovable and unchangeable” so i'm not sure what he referring to there?

 

If a Buddhist monk is going to get killed by a sword and completely accepts it then he is going to have a much smoother death and probably rebirth, whereas if he fights what already is his mind will create all sorts of stressful thoughts such as how unfair it is that he has been killed and how he doesn't deserve it because he has done so many good deeds in his life etc then that non acceptance and resistance might drive him to the hell realms before he gets reborn, or at least cause him a lot of pointless suffering during his death.

 

If you listen to Adyashanti a bit more he often explains that he doesn't mean that nothing should be done to help others and help the homeless etc, but that drive or motivation to do so is much more healthy if it comes from a place of spontaneity or freedom rather than from a conditioned belief about the way you think things should be. What I think Adyashanti is repeatedly trying to show in his teachings is that basically what the ego is is resistance to what already is, for example many people are still resisting things which happened when they were young children let alone resisting what is happening to them now in the moment.

[dee]

Dee

I would like to challenge your thinking. I am not attacking you, nor am I trying to force anything on you.

 

You say that humans can not walk through solid windows/walls. I will assume that this is also something you believe. That this is reality for you. If I am wrong feel free to correct me.

 

OK, now let's challenge what you "know." First of all have you ever tried walking through a solid window or wall? If you haven't even tried it, you really have no right to claim that it is not possible.

 

Assuming that you have tried this and presumably failed, have you taken any time to ask yourself where this belief came from. Is it truly your belief, or did you pick it up somewhere?

 

I'm tried multiple times. All ended with failure and agonizing pain.

 

All our beliefs are not really our beliefs. Beliefs are conceptualized by language. Language is restrictive in it's own nature. We are influenced since we are little. Anyways.. Moving on.

 

In summation; you are looking at my words too carefully. I'm not going to contemplate if one can walk through a wall or cannot. It's a waste of my time. I will stick to believing that it's not possible until I see it.

 

If you still believe you can; upload a video.

[Tibetan_Ice]

 

I'm tried multiple times. All ended with failure and agonizing pain.

 

All our beliefs are not really our beliefs. Beliefs are conceptualized by language. Language is restrictive in it's own nature. We are influenced since we are little. Anyways.. Moving on.

 

In summation; you are looking at my words too carefully. I'm not going to contemplate if one can walk through a wall or cannot. It's a waste of my time. I will stick to believing that it's not possible until I see it.

 

If you still believe you can; upload a video.

http://www.primordialalchemist.com/kunlun-neigung/kunlun-gallery/

 

 

Edited April 15, 2014 by Tibetan_Ice

[TzuJanLi]

Be still and know..

 

Let go of beliefs, knowings, realizations.. allow 'that which is' to reveal itself, free from the mind's influences and distortions..

 

There is nothing that blinds the experiencer more than that which the experiencer believes they 'know', let it go.. freedom from the known is liberation.. history is littered with the corpses of false truths and dead beliefs, the graveyard of each generation's certainty that they know the truth..

 

Be willing to see/experience everything for the first time, again, and again.. it's amazing what can be seen when you're not looking 'for something', when you allow what 'is' to reveal itself..

[Marblehead]

But TzuJanLi, even after all that, you still cannot walk through a wall. No matter how many times one tries all they get is a bloody nose.

 

Other than that I agree with your post.

[DreamBliss]

Seeker of Tao

I have no interest in defending a viewpoint or belief. I may appear to dip into those muddy waters as I have only recently begun to transform. I used to be someone that would fight to the point of getting banned from a forums for his beliefs. I am not that person anymore. In fact, I really don't know who I am now. Which I think may be a good thing, because it means I am free of any assumptions about myself.

 

In my reply to what you said I was merely guessing and theorizing. Working my way through this idea. I think this is provable. If someone, somewhere has developed wings you can use for flying, strap them on to someone who society would label delusional or mentally ill, someone who thinks they can fly, and see what happens.

 

In the end I think the conclusion I arrived at is more likely than what I started with. It is not some hidden belief holding them back, although this may be a possibility if there is any merit to the idea that all creatures on the earth are born with certain things they know programmed into their DNA. More likely, most likely it is simply that the human body is not designed for flight, it does not have the equipment.

 

Some humans have been able to levitate, and defy gravity that way. But I am sticking with flight here as an example, not affecting gravity energetically. Can humans fly without wings? Can they levitate, in other words? Well I agree with what you said, that it is not just belief that allow someone to defy gravity or walk through walls. There is more to this issue than that. Some things I can think of from the top of my head are: mindset, perception and beliefs. All I can say for sure is that this would be an interesting field of study.

 

Thank you for your reply.

 

dee

I completely understand your viewpoint. You will believe it when you see it. However you may find it beneficial in your practice to practice faith. Some things in your life will not be tangible, you will have no way of knowing their truth of their reality, and the only way to proceed is to step out in faith. Ever watch Indiana Jones cross the chasm? Inevitably we all come to such chasms. We look down and all we see is darkness and empty space. To reach the other side we have to step out and, by the act of stepping out, demonstrate faith that there is a a way across, whether we see it or not.

 

I looked at your words so carefully out of respect. I wanted to be sure to properly reply to everything you said. I also had a desire to help you, as I saw a belief there you were and perhaps still are holding blindly too, and as someone who defined himself by his beliefs, and defended them to the loss of forum accounts and friends, I recognize all too well when this is happening, and I know all to well the damage it can do to an individual.

 

It is like picking up broken glass and holding it tightly in your hand, refusing to let go, because you didn't see broken glass when you picked it up, or perhaps you never saw it at all. But you believe, you just know, that you have some treasure there in your hand, so you hold it tighter and tighter, but all the while it is cutting into your hand deeply, and you are bleeding. You are suffering, and even though you may be aware of this, you refuse to let go. You may even adopt the resulting pain and suffering as part of your identity. You say that this is who you are.

 

Probably the best thing I ever did was to open my hand and let the worthless garbage in there go. I opened my hands, I opened myself, I opened my mind. In that openness I found freedom. When I learned to pick up something that I think may be valuable, I learned to hold it loosely, so I can easily let it go. The same way love for another should be held.

 

The ego is what drives you to grasp, to hold, and probably to pick up in the first place. The ego is concerned with your concept, your image of yourself. It wants to defend this, and all the beliefs that comprise it. To loose any of those beliefs is to watch the whole concept, the whole image, crumble. Then who are you?

 

That may seem like a terrifying state to be in, and I can tell you from personal experience it is. Who am I? I have no clue. If I am not my body, not my religion, not my beliefs, not my social position, not what I do or who I am with, then what, who, am I? I think a better question is why do I need to know who I am? Why is that important?

 

I have chosen to blaze my own way through the terrain of spiritual experience, and I am now lost, wandering in circles, but I am beginning to understand that maybe I should have stop wandering around and just sat down. Stop trying to get anywhere. The same as I am learning to let go of my concepts and images. To stop defending them and to release them like the broken glass they ultimately are. To simply be whatever the heck I am outside of these. So this is my present moment experience, and it is from this place I have spoken to you.

 

I will certainly share a video of my walking through a wall or levitating should I ever find myself able to do these things. There is a lot out there that I want to experience and learn about. But my other present moment struggle is with seeking, and letting go of it, wherever it lurks in my life. Still I find what I have read so far about the Tarahumara fascinating, as well as this thing called ringsels which I have read about in, "the Way of Play." I have to figure out how to experience these these people, places or things without seeking them

 

You can find videos of me just sitting, and talking more about these sorts of things, at my YouTube channel, here. They are called "The Circle."

https://www.youtube.com/user/DreamBlissFlows/videos?tag_id=UCzlmdNE27ArlLR2AVUcoCbA.3.the-circle&view=46&flow=grid

 

To all the rest who posted - thank you for sharing your insights and viewpoints. That is just one of many things I love about this forums! I can always count on someone giving me another perspective, or a more spiritually developed person setting me straight!

Edited April 15, 2014 by DreamBliss

[Andrei]

But TzuJanLi, even after all that, you still cannot walk through a wall. No matter how many times one tries all they get is a bloody nose.

.

 

When I was a kid, I was walking through walls and doors. It was very fun, I could see and hear other people speaking. Once I remember I leaned over the wall of my room and pushed my head through the wall and saw my mother having a fight with my grandmother. Another time I tried to exit through the closed door but I couldn't, I bumped my head by the door, then I tried to open the door with my hand but neither this I couldn't because my hand was passing through the handle, and I could't grasp the handle. I tried several times, then I realized I was laying in bed and in the same time standing in front of the door. Then I realized I was having OBE's all those time, I was lucid dreaming.

[Marblehead]

... I was lucid dreaming.

Yes, while your story is interesting, dreaming, illusions and delusions don't count here. Dreams can seem so damn real! So can our illusions and delusions. But Manifest reality will get us every time.

[GrandmasterP]

Good luck with that walking on water or through solid walls DreamBliss.

Maybe that can be done.

Never say never.

Thing is though where does it get you?

Presumably to the other side of the wall or across the water.

Doors, boats and bridges do much the same job and the technology of those means is all tried and tested.

This whole 'From- To' restlessness can sometimes be symptomatic of dis- ease with the 'Here - Now'.

However anyone gets from one place to another, usually; it's the same person who arrives.

If change isn't 'change now' it's 'change never'.

Now is all we have.

Ever.

Edited April 15, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[TzuJanLi]

But TzuJanLi, even after all that, you still cannot walk through a wall. No matter how many times one tries all they get is a bloody nose.

 

Other than that I agree with your post.

 

Hi MH: I'm not going to say it ca't be done, as physics would suggest otherwise, so i'll leave that option open, but.. there is no credible or valid evidence of it ever happening, none.. and wishful thinking or LOA will not make it happen.. the reality is that a bunch of wannabe gurus cobbled together some stories about physics and myths and religions, and are peddling it as if it were doable with a wish and positive thinking.. people imagine the new-age stories they hear are true, then they believe those stories, then they try to explain normal Life with abnormal beliefs and stories.. and, it's largely imagined mind-play, an escape from taking responsibility for what is actually happening and doing the hard work of fixing it..

 

Simplify.. just look at Life happening with the clarity of a still mind's awareness, rather than the woo woo stories distorting that elegant simplicity..

[Tibetan_Ice]

From http://read.84000.co/browser/released/UT22084/066/UT22084-066-018.pdf

 

At that time, the great bodhisattva mahāsattva known as

Great Nail of Brahmā bowed down toward the Bhagavān with folded hands and said:

Ordinary beings do not recognize

the nature of all phenomena.

They live in the form aggregate,

and so their six sense faculties become deluded.

There is not a single aggregate to be seen,

yet ordinary beings conceptualize the form aggregate.

Consequently, some of these people

develop doubts about the Buddhas teaching.

It is for them that the Bhagavān

taught the characteristics of the suchness of phenomena. Thus, here and there

they come to know the characteristics of space, which bears

everything.

This indeed is brave equipoise,

a state that cannot be expressed.

A most precious wish-fulfilling jewel

rests on the crown of his head.

Those who perceive a precious Indranīla jewel

from afar are very fortunate beings:

they will perfect the brave progression.

All who have come to see the Teacher are wise indeed.

Today in this place, a profound discourse

will undoubtedly be proclaimed.

O Bhagavān, please give relief

to the sentient beings who have come here.

Bringing them to full maturation

[idiot_stimpy]

The characteristics of space - beautiful

[Tibetan_Ice]

From As It Is vol 2. - Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche

 

This siddha had five hundred disciples who could also fly with him. Today you can still see where they landed: they left a whole cluster of footprints in the rock, fifty or sixty altogether. In the morning, when they flew towards the west, all the footprints faced towards the west. When they flew back in the afternoon, all the footprints faced towards the east. When you see all these footprints, you are amazed. This is not merely a story. There were also many, many accomplished yogi and yoginis in the Drikung and Drukpa Kagyü School. Their accomplishments were possible because they had attained mastery in samadhi.

[deci belle]

I am reading Adyashanti’s “Falling Into Grace” and at first this text was really speaking to me. But then the author started talking about “accepting what is” and how some things are “immovable and unchangeable.” I disagree, 100%, with this belief.

 

Accepting what is is proof of seeing reality as is.

 

Disagreeing with this is being unable to see reality.

 

Actually, there is no other reality, but the inability to see reality as is in the first place is oneself creating the basis of karmic illusion where there is none to begin with.

 

The author of the book is not entertaining illusions.

 

What is immovable is essence. Your own aware nature is the basis of the immovable and unchangeable.

 

There is no other thing; and just this non-thing is formless. This is what Adyashanti is referring to as immovable.

 

Since this inconceivability is not within the realm of understanding, anything you can think of falls into your own self-reflective machinations.

 

It is not Adyashanti's fault that you do not see reality as is.

 

If you could, you would savor the unchangeability and immovability of reality as the basis of your own unborn mind and become a partner of creation, not subject to it.

 

I would not waste time disagreeing with an enlightening being such as this. Instead, endeavor to discover this unchangeable immovable thing which is not separate from your selfless aware identity without beginning.

 

It is due to your inability to recognize your own nature that you cannot see reality as is as the immovable unchangeable thing no different than yourself right now.

[DreamBliss]

deci belle

 

Thank you.

[dee]

 

dee

I completely understand your viewpoint. You will believe it when you see it. However you may find it beneficial in your practice to practice faith. Some things in your life will not be tangible, you will have no way of knowing their truth of their reality, and the only way to proceed is to step out in faith. Ever watch Indiana Jones cross the chasm? Inevitably we all come to such chasms. We look down and all we see is darkness and empty space. To reach the other side we have to step out and, by the act of stepping out, demonstrate faith that there is a a way across, whether we see it or not.

 

I looked at your words so carefully out of respect. I wanted to be sure to properly reply to everything you said. I also had a desire to help you, as I saw a belief there you were and perhaps still are holding blindly too, and as someone who defined himself by his beliefs, and defended them to the loss of forum accounts and friends, I recognize all too well when this is happening, and I know all to well the damage it can do to an individual.

 

It is like picking up broken glass and holding it tightly in your hand, refusing to let go, because you didn't see broken glass when you picked it up, or perhaps you never saw it at all. But you believe, you just know, that you have some treasure there in your hand, so you hold it tighter and tighter, but all the while it is cutting into your hand deeply, and you are bleeding. You are suffering, and even though you may be aware of this, you refuse to let go. You may even adopt the resulting pain and suffering as part of your identity. You say that this is who you are.

 

Probably the best thing I ever did was to open my hand and let the worthless garbage in there go. I opened my hands, I opened myself, I opened my mind. In that openness I found freedom. When I learned to pick up something that I think may be valuable, I learned to hold it loosely, so I can easily let it go. The same way love for another should be held.

 

The ego is what drives you to grasp, to hold, and probably to pick up in the first place. The ego is concerned with your concept, your image of yourself. It wants to defend this, and all the beliefs that comprise it. To loose any of those beliefs is to watch the whole concept, the whole image, crumble. Then who are you?

 

That may seem like a terrifying state to be in, and I can tell you from personal experience it is. Who am I? I have no clue. If I am not my body, not my religion, not my beliefs, not my social position, not what I do or who I am with, then what, who, am I? I think a better question is why do I need to know who I am? Why is that important?

 

I have chosen to blaze my own way through the terrain of spiritual experience, and I am now lost, wandering in circles, but I am beginning to understand that maybe I should have stop wandering around and just sat down. Stop trying to get anywhere. The same as I am learning to let go of my concepts and images. To stop defending them and to release them like the broken glass they ultimately are. To simply be whatever the heck I am outside of these. So this is my present moment experience, and it is from this place I have spoken to you.

 

I will certainly share a video of my walking through a wall or levitating should I ever find myself able to do these things. There is a lot out there that I want to experience and learn about. But my other present moment struggle is with seeking, and letting go of it, wherever it lurks in my life. Still I find what I have read so far about the Tarahumara fascinating, as well as this thing called ringsels which I have read about in, "the Way of Play." I have to figure out how to experience these these people, places or things without seeking them

 

You can find videos of me just sitting, and talking more about these sorts of things, at my YouTube channel, here. They are called "The Circle."

https://www.youtube.com/user/DreamBlissFlows/videos?tag_id=UCzlmdNE27ArlLR2AVUcoCbA.3.the-circle&view=46&flow=grid

 

To all the rest who posted - thank you for sharing your insights and viewpoints. That is just one of many things I love about this forums! I can always count on someone giving me another perspective, or a more spiritually developed person setting me straight!

No thanks. Faith is when all rational thinking subsides. Things are as they are. They are as they always been. Yet; it changes.

 

I'm not going to add more beliefs to myself by subscribing to false faith.

 

Edit: Deci belle summed up my thoughts via words.

 

http://www.primordialalchemist.com/kunlun-neigung/kunlun-gallery/

 

 

image.jpg

 

Cool photo. Doesn't really mean anything but okay.

Edited April 16, 2014 by dee