Looking Into New Practices For Mental Health, Enlightenment and then perhaps Immortality ;) (in woteva order) (Formerly: Taoist Systems of Practice)

[GrandmasterP]

I'd not get too hung up on lineage as some sort of uber negative religious type thing to be resisted.

Way I see it.

If I got on a plane and the pilot came onto the PA and said...

" Hi I am your pilot. I have done a correspondence course and watched some Youtubes about flying jets plus I bought a coupla books off Amazon about piloting so we should be OK."

I'd get off that plane if I could.

We expect pilots to be well trained, skilled and practised in flying planes having been taught by experts in flying.

That's how I see lineage.

Expert teachers who teach expertly within a certain recognised skill set and have been recognised as teachers by people who know what teachers in that particular 'school' or cultivation are supposed to be able to teach and teach effectively.

I don't agree with this " My teacher's lineage is better than your teacher's lineage." BS.

That's a bit pathetic IMO.

Thing is anyone can set themselves up as a cultivation teacher and there are some real shysters out there.

Hence I reckon that it is far better and much safer to go to someone you can have confidence in that they are properly trained and skilled enough to have been accredited to teach by some checkable and recognised 'line' or school of practice

Lineage gives that assurance.

The system selling guys on here and elsewhere by and large are self referential, basically they have made it up and are selling it on for profit.

Lineage doesn't have to be ancient but it does have to be accredited, checkable and have some sort of quality controls and ethical framework beyond some guy with a dime store 'doctorate' claiming...

" Yeah my way is the best, that'll be $400 please."

Those guys bring 'new' products onto the market almost annually to maintain sales plus they are forever advertising, because they need to replace the disappointed students they have lost.

A lineaged teacher tends to retain students because what the students are getting is worth having.

Here's mine...

http://jsqg.sport.org.cn/en/

Combines the best of some older lineages along with new research.

Not for everybody but it suits us and our students.

We're fully insured, have an ethical code and safeguarding and we're 'inspected' each year to ensure that standards are being maintained.

Classes cost £4 a session for anyone, £3 a session for members and are free for seniors.

That includes a cuppa tea.

Edited May 4, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[GrandmasterP]

Baduanjin health benefits here......

http://jsqg.sport.org.cn/en/tips/bdj/2011-12-09/368419.html

Edited May 4, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Satya]

I'd not get too hung up on lineage

Yes.

 

All lineages began with one being/human/person. All a lineage is, is a bunch of stuff that one person/being, through a lot of deep seeing/feeling/patience/insight-(literally in this last ones case), worked out. People may add onto it over the years, but it always starts with one. Core, universal Truths/Workings/Rules are worked out, ways to work to achieve certain ends according to these rules, like math, chemistry, music. No lineage, person, or prior teaching is necessary to work this stuff out (it can help a lot, but it's surely not necessary); no lineage or person has a monopoly on Truth.

 

I guess the advantage of an established lineage is that stuff gets clarified, regularly asked questions, etc, whereas if someone has started seeing/experiencing these energies to incredibly subtle degrees, or, if someone realises self/no-self, then they have to come up with a new language to describe/point to these phenomena/This Truth, and have to find out how best to translate. On the other hand, newly awakened people can find terms to help from the various schools/beings from the past.

 

Waking up, completely to non-dual Truth, feels/seems to me to just require sincere one pointedness to find out what is True. Surely many throughout the ages have woken up with no lineages or teachers with this one act/intention. Energy work is similar to a certain extent, wanting to know the Truth. People sense subtle energies and investigate them further and work it all out. Or, some it seems have OBE experiences and work further from there and develop second sight. Robert Bruce being a good, well known example. Franz Bardon being another.

[Antares]

No lineage, person, or prior teaching is necessary to work this stuff out (it can help a lot, but it's surely not necessary); no lineage or person has a monopoly on Truth.

 

I guess the advantage of an established lineage is that stuff gets clarified, regularly asked questions, etc, whereas if someone has started seeing/experiencing these energies to incredibly subtle degrees, or, if someone realises self/no-self, then they have to come up with a new language to describe/point to these phenomenaNo lineage, person, or prior teaching is necessary to work this stuff out (it can help a lot, but it's surely not necessary); no lineage or person has a monopoly on Truth.I guess the advantage of an established lineage is that stuff gets clarified, regularly asked questions, etc, whereas if someone has started seeing/experiencing these energies to incredibly subtle degrees, or, if someone realises self/no-self, then they have to come up with a new language to describe/point to these phenomena

 

Sorry, but you sound very philosophically. To me it sounds like "i am teacher, i am god, i am...". BS. Excuse my language.

A good teacher CAN SEE your energy and your imbalances and can help to overcome it giving adjustments personally for each certain person. Also teacher transmits the energy. I just would not be able to get rid of a few of my blockages which I strove to overcome on my own for years but one experienced man (therapist) did it for a few sessions by transmitting energy and giving me exercises to work it out at home. How you are going to bypass all this on your own I can guess only. This is just example. If you can not overcome anxiety how you can reflect about your own way of spirituality?

 

Even in order to benefit from Baduanjin one must open up channels by the mean of practice of initial level qigong to get feelings of qi flow otherwise all other stuff will be just calisthenics without any benefit. Nowadays there are dozens of baduaanjin and yijinjin on the market but who knows how to do it right?

[GrandmasterP]

"Nowadays there are dozens of baduaanjin and yijinjin on the market but who knows how to do it right?"

 

These guys know......

http://jsqg.sport.org.cn/en/tips/bdj/index.html

Edited May 5, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Satya]

Sorry, but you sound very philosophically. To me it sounds like "i am teacher, i am god, i am...". BS. Excuse my language.

Nope, I haven't said anything along these lines; I have just used my innate logic/brain to highlight various (what I see as, and I think most would agree to be) axioms. If you're thinking "it sounds like "i am teacher, i am god, i am..."", then this is projection/interpretation on your part.

A good teacher CAN SEE your energy and your imbalances and can help to overcome it giving adjustments personally for each certain person. Also teacher transmits the energy. I just would not be able to get rid of a few of my blockages which I strove to overcome on my own for years but one experienced man (therapist) did it for a few sessions by transmitting energy and giving me exercises to work it out at home.

I haven't said anything to the contrary. I haven't denied the abilities of adepts/teachers. I was simply reading through and read:

NO NO NO. Avoid this stuff. There is no lineage and a lot of crap. You, guys, going nuts offering these crazy things to each other.

And, then:

I'd not get too hung up on lineage

And agreed with the this bunch of words, and thought I would add to this, highlighting the axiomatic reasons why lineage doesn't have to be everything. Mainly that: All lineages start with one being/person, and I provided the possible method through which some of the Masters of the past woke up with no established lineage:

"sincere one pointedness to find out what is True."

A simple axiomatic statement, no? A lineage HAS to start somewhere, no? I then went on to say that there are of course advantages to lineages/schools/old-systems, but, still highlighted the fact that an old-lineage/any-lineage doesn't have to be considered the only effective route. In summary, I saw you posit a belief that I personally thought was not a beneficial one to have (as most all absolutist beliefs are) and was drawn to highlight reasons why I thought the belief was fallacious, with the end intended goal of helping you.

How you are going to bypass all this on your own I can guess only.

I didn't say I was planning to. All I was doing was highlighting a fallacious belief (as my points above show).

This is just example. If you can not overcome anxiety how you can reflect about your own way of spirituality?

First of all, as I said above, I haven't said that I intend to do all this on my own (in a way, no one does anything "alone", we all stand on the shoulders of giants/those who went before us). Second of all, this is quite an insensitive, inappropriate and rude thing to say, to use something that is classed by modern language/society as a disorder/disability/disease to persecute against someone in a discussion. If someone had cancer or a severed spine would you use that against a person in a discussion? Additionally, you don't know me, you know nothing about me, so, to make these statements is again, inappropriate. What appears to have happened, is that I have questioned a belief that you are identified with, and you have then gone on the attack. This is understandable. There is a theory that we defend our positions so much, even when even WE begin to doubt them, because when we strongly identify with a belief it becomes part of the mental picture we call "me". Thus, if a part of our "me" is compromised, for example a belief that we start to see a fault in, just as we would if defending our body, we go on the attack to defend it, with the aim to prevent a part of ourselves from dying; because, once an idea is seen to be untrue, it, in a metaphysical sense, dies. Like most of what we do, it all comes down to a fear of death due to our false identification with single phenomena (mainly our bodies/opinions/beliefs), rather than Shiva/Shakti or Consciousness/Energy or Nothing/Everything, as being our self/what we are.

 

Like all things in life, like all phenomena I come across, I see my anxiety as a teacher, a guide to lead me to Truth. It has provided me with some valuable insights, and, through overcoming painful emotions/thoughts related to this anxiety, I have learned ways to overcome or "see through" various other phenomena. We all have our obstacles, mine just happens to be easily summarised by the term "anxiety"; this doesn't invalidate my logic, sight, insights and experience.

Edited May 5, 2014 by Satya

[Jetsun]

Basically, I am looking into adopting a new practice or set of practices and am up for hearing any/all recommendations for books, websites, systems, or, possibly teachers/schools.

 

You can review my previous readings/practices on the lobby. I acknowledge the effectiveness of non-dual teachings, self enquiry (Mooji, Adyashanti, Gangaji, Jeff Foster, Nisargadatta, Ramana), the direct pointing, realising what is always present, but, anxiety problems cause a lot of reactivity for me that is hard to cut through. So, I am hoping/thinking that, in addition to non-dual teachings, of starting a practice (meditation, energy work, etc) where I can hopefully cut through some of the internal noise/dissolve some of the conditioning, or re-wire my brain through a practice and the phenomena known as neuroplasticity, so I can get to a place of abiding silence and I can go deeper with my realisation and self inquiry, or simply just get to a place where I am anxiety free and happy.

 

I am also interested in Chinese/Taoist Healing (mainly for mental health [which still has a physical cause in the brain, so should be no different from 'physical health' healing]).

 

I hope I am posting in the right place.

 

Best Wishes

 

I got into this stuff for similar reasons as you and with similar intentions, basically over the years I tried loads of things Taoist and Chinese to try deal with things like anxiety, but none of it really helped. In this area there are all sorts of con men and people who promise things in order to sell their system to you and many genuine people who promise far too much or present their system as some sort of cure all solution to all your problems, so you have to be careful not to be suckered in. Many of these guys seemed to have studied marketing as well as Taoist arts, but the most convincing writer with regards to how Taoist systems can help with mental health I found is probably Bruce Franzis and his Water Method books, yet I tried his system for six months and it didn't help much. One guy I like is Chunyi Lin who is a legit healer so if anyone wanted to try something Taoist I would recommend his system, although it didn't work for me.

 

I think the main reason why these systems didn't work for me is that they aren't very good at getting to the emotional root of problems which is where the majority of major blockages and mental health issues are located, you can move energy through meridians like flushing water through a pipe which can have a basic healing effect, but unless you tackle the emotional consciousness at the core many patterns wont shift, which is where many of the Chinese practices are weak in my view. I was reading recently about a woman training at Wudang mountain who described the way they train as more like Spartan training where vulnerable emotion is often looked upon as weakness and the ability to control your feelings as strength, yet in reality that approach involves a lot of repression and inward aggression, so not ideal for your mental health. In that respect I think basic psychotherapy is probably better than most Qigong for a lot of mental and emotional health issues.

 

The thing I then found which is working for me is a lineage called Vortex Healing, which on first inspection looks like New Age thing like reiki, but so far I have found it the deepest healing modality I have tried. It actually can go to incredible depth such as clearing karmic patterns, genetic history, trauma held in the organs and tissues of the body, clearing out all sorts of conditioning. While also it is a lineage whose main purpose is to facilitate non-dual spiritual awakening like what Nisargadatta and Ramana talk about, yet with Vortex they heal problems as means to clear the path for awakening to happen and then help embody it if it does happen, helping to clear away the lifetimes of old conditioning which still remains in the system after awakening.

 

Other things which might help are things like the Work of Byron Katie, which looks simple but is like CBT on steroids in that the reversal question at the end can really reveal a lot and turn things on its head. Also one of the deepest healings available to anyone is to go get a hug from Amma, unconditional love has the potential to shift many things.

[Satya]

I got into this stuff for similar reasons as you and with similar intentions, basically over the years I tried loads of things Taoist and Chinese to try deal with things like anxiety, but none of it really helped.

I didn't actually get into spiritual things to improve my mental health exactly. I was interested in deeper Truths/Truth from a young age and then, seeing through the impermanence of phenomena-based/conditional happiness, I started investigating further. THEN, due to a bunch of combined factors, life stressors, life circumstances during a period where I was already 8 years deep into inquiring about the spiritual side of things, and 2 years into practice, I developed anxiety issues that started severely impacting my life and ability to function; admittedly, during this period, I was quite busy and so let my practices slip a bit. Perhaps if I hadn't done this then the anxiety wouldn't have happened, but, that is unknowable. Now though, obviously, it is one of my main focuses in life (I wonder if it wasn't, if I went back to committing COMPLETELY to Truth/Enlightenment, whether that would lead to transcendence of the anxiety and all issues, and whether that now anxiety has become focused on that makes it worse; this is probably in part the case, but how much is hard to determine). I would like to overcome these issues that stop me from living my life fully. Thank you for the solidarity/sentiment though .

In this area there are all sorts of con men and people who promise things in order to sell their system to you and many genuine people who promise far too much or present their system as some sort of cure all solution to all your problems, so you have to be careful not to be suckered in. Many of these guys seemed to have studied marketing as well as Taoist arts,

Yep, no doubt. Con men/people in all areas of life.

but the most convincing writer with regards to how Taoist systems can help with mental health I found is probably Bruce Franzis and his Water Method books, yet I tried his system for six months and it didn't help much. One guy I like is Chunyi Lin who is a legit healer so if anyone wanted to try something Taoist I would recommend his system, although it didn't work for me.

That's an interesting synchronicity. I have been looking into systems of Qigong, study-able from DVD (for now) and was, until last night, tied between Ken Cohen's 100 day system, or spring forest. Both Ken and Chunyi seem great, and, I still want to have a look at Ken's practises (and you never know, anything could happen, I may change my mind), but, I was trawling the forums/web and came across a lot of people saying that if you want healing to go with SFQ AND, ALSO, last night I was listening to Chunyi's foundations for practice, and hearing him talk about using illness as a teacher (amongst other things) really resonated with my outlook, so, I think I've decided on SFQ, for now.

I think the main reason why these systems didn't work for me is that they aren't very good at getting to the emotional root of problems which is where the majority of major blockages and mental health issues are located, you can move energy through meridians like flushing water through a pipe which can have a basic healing effect, but unless you tackle the emotional consciousness at the core many patterns wont shift, which is where many of the Chinese practices are weak in my view. I was reading recently about a woman training at Wudang mountain who described the way they train as more like Spartan training where vulnerable emotion is often looked upon as weakness and the ability to control your feelings as strength, yet in reality that approach involves a lot of repression and inward aggression, so not ideal for your mental health. In that respect I think basic psychotherapy is probably better than most Qigong for a lot of mental and emotional health issues.

I don't know about the abilities of these systems to go deep enough, but, I agree that repression is usually, most always a bad thing (I can't think of an example of it being a good thing, but, never say never) and, yes, psychotherapy works. I'm a full supporter of proven therapies, in my case CBT/ERP. It's just tough; and, due to it coming back, I wonder about deeper emotional routes of things. I think if one stuck with CBT for long enough and had the support in place to do this, and to keep you on track, recovery is inevitable. The problem is, you need to keep it up. Like with most things, it's about establishing new habits/patterns of thinking and getting out of old ones. You need to keep it up to build those new neural pathways, and mental health issues are so insidious that bad habits can slip back in easily, hence, either requiring the individual to be very mindful and diligent, or, preferably, having a therapist to keep you on track.

The thing I then found which is working for me is a lineage called Vortex Healing, which on first inspection looks like New Age thing like reiki, but so far I have found it the deepest healing modality I have tried. It actually can go to incredible depth such as clearing karmic patterns, genetic history, trauma held in the organs and tissues of the body, clearing out all sorts of conditioning. While also it is a lineage whose main purpose is to facilitate non-dual spiritual awakening like what Nisargadatta and Ramana talk about, yet with Vortex they heal problems as means to clear the path for awakening to happen and then help embody it if it does happen, helping to clear away the lifetimes of old conditioning which still remains in the system after awakening.

Ha, I've had a look and it does look new agey (which I have some kind of inherent conditioned aversion to)! But, I won't let appearances or conditioning stop the investigation of an effective practice. Can you explain what it entails a bit more? Why you think it's so effective? Specific benefits you've felt? Are you sure that improvements felt by you are a direct cause of the practice?-(I don't mean to call your own insight into yourself into question, and I don't mean to insult, I'm just curious; hope that doesn't offend).

Other things which might help are things like the Work of Byron Katie, which looks simple but is like CBT on steroids in that the reversal question at the end can really reveal a lot and turn things on its head.

Yep. This didn't help so much for me personally. The CBT stuff needs to be more focused on the phenomena itself for me.

Also one of the deepest healings available to anyone is to go get a hug from Amma, unconditional love has the potential to shift many things.

Another synchronicity , me and my friend were just recently talking about Amma. She asked if I wanted to go and see her this year with her.

[Jetsun]

I didn't actually get into spiritual things to improve my mental health exactly. I was interested in deeper Truths/Truth from a young age and then, seeing through the impermanence of phenomena-based/conditional happiness, I started investigating further. THEN, due to a bunch of combined factors, life stressors, life circumstances during a period where I was already 8 years deep into inquiring about the spiritual side of things, and 2 years into practice, I developed anxiety issues that started severely impacting my life and ability to function; admittedly, during this period, I was quite busy and so let my practices slip a bit. Perhaps if I hadn't done this then the anxiety wouldn't have happened, but, that is unknowable. Now though, obviously, it is one of my main focuses in life (I wonder if it wasn't, if I went back to committing COMPLETELY to Truth/Enlightenment, whether that would lead to transcendence of the anxiety and all issues, and whether that now anxiety has become focused on that makes it worse; this is probably in part the case, but how much is hard to determine). I would like to overcome these issues that stop me from living my life fully. Thank you for the solidarity/sentiment though .

 

I was opposite to you in that I didn't have any obvious interest in deeper truths until I got anxiety and my ability to achieve what I want in life in the regular world was eroded, then I went looking for solutions and deeper truths. I spend years trying to "fix" my anxiety with spiritual methods and it didn't help because I was struggling against it, it becomes like quicksand in that the more you try to get rid of it the faster you sink. Which is the same principle with spirituality and trying to transcend the ego in my view in that the more you try to change or get out from where you are at the more you become entrenched there.

 

 

Ha, I've had a look and it does look new agey (which I have some kind of inherent conditioned aversion to)! But, I won't let appearances or conditioning stop the investigation of an effective practice. Can you explain what it entails a bit more? Why you think it's so effective? Specific benefits you've felt? Are you sure that improvements felt by you are a direct cause of the practice?-(I don't mean to call your own insight into yourself into question, and I don't mean to insult, I'm just curious; hope that doesn't offend).

 

I have an aversion to new age stuff too, my father is a scientist in the Richard Dawkins mould who would probably think I was mad if I told him about it, so I barely mention it to my friends and family as it does sound very new age and unbelievable. But I can't deny my experiences, it was with my vortex healer that I had a glimpse of what is meant by waking-up or awakening and it is only now that I have any sort of understanding of what is meant by terms like "divine" and "spiritual". The specific benefits I would say are less struggle in general, my body feels less tension and I can concentrate better, since I started with it I have changed many aspects of my life such as leaving a job I got stuck in and going back to university and maintaining a personal relationship. I can't put all of that down to the vortex as there were all sorts of other things going on but it all came after I started the healing. The main reason why I think it is effective is because most of the healers are awake in the same way Jeff Foster and the others describe, so from that space a lot more is possible, also there is the element of them bringing in not just energy into issues but also divine consciousness, they also work on the karmic body which very few other healing modalities deal with.

 

Also Amma is another one I would have had a natural aversion to a few years ago, the idea of going to a place where they all dress in white and worship a woman like a god did not appeal to me, yet I can't deny my experiences with her either, and now believe she might actually be some of the things they say about her, like I believe she might actually be an Avatar living in our time, so I would recommend going to see her.

[Antares]

Nope, I haven't said anything along these lines; I have just used my innate logic/brain to highlight various (what I see as, and I think most would agree to be) axioms. If you're thinking "it sounds like "i am teacher, i am god, i am..."", then this is projection/interpretation on your part.

I haven't said anything to the contrary. I haven't denied the abilities of adepts/teachers. I was simply reading through and read:

 

Like all things in life, like all phenomena I come across, I see my anxiety as a teacher, a guide to lead me to Truth. It has provided me with some valuable insights, and, through overcoming painful emotions/thoughts related to this anxiety, I have learned ways to overcome or "see through" various other phenomena. We all have our obstacles, mine just happens to be easily summarised by the term "anxiety"; this doesn't invalidate my logic, sight, insights and experience.

 

I did not attack you or your opinion but only referred to your issue that you disclosed in this thread. It has nothing to do with people who have "cancer" or any other illness. This comparison is not correct. Only I mentioned that the reason is yin/yang imbalance and tried to explain where it was coming from. It seemed to me you sounded like you wanted to find some "energy exercise" which you can do on your own getting it from video or book. I tried to explain why it was wrong approach and that in this approach would not be much "spirituality" meaning that genuine "way" or "path" is not only "training" of [post-heaven] energy but [pre-heaven] spirit also. I believe that we inherit our spiritual achievements from previous lives and spirituality is determined by our own karma and our efforts in this life: correct way of life, right deeds, diet, regime, correct energy practice, correct thoughts, right teacher and tradition and so on. This is difficult way of overcoming obstacles on the way. And huge part of it as I personally believe is correct teaching which includes all of this. This is how it was from very beginning - every spiritual person of the past had a teacher plus good karma. But many people here believe that they can become spiritual by doing some fishy "energy practices". This is the way to delusion. Even having got a good teacher it is very difficult path. I personally trust only the traditional practices which are very difficult to find in general. No book or video can disclose this practices. It is almost impossible. Even if your are lucky to get it then it is difficult to work it out even with good teacher. You do not seem to understand it and I stressed it once again but not in order to insult you.

All of these practices you are talking here are working with post-heaven qi and they can help a little to improve sensitivity of qi and can help to improve health but there are more chances to get sick [qigong syndrome] without proper supervision and if it is coming from a source without lineage . The only way to get "full range" of benefits is to practice neidan which works with pre - heaven qi. You can not get it without teacher. This is the law. All the best

Edited May 7, 2014 by Antares

[Jox]

Thank you, GrandmasterP. I used to live in the UK and tried to find something "authentic" there. I did try "yoga", meditations, tantra, neikong, MA... then I realized it was waste of time and money. Now I have another understanding about all that stuff. Probably my opinion will sound negative here but it was my experience and it was part of the lessons I've got in my life. Most sad thing here is that you are right that there are many people who scam others and... themselves as well. So called teachers learn something "spiritual" somewhere in India or Taiwan at the best and then they teach others playing the role of a "guru". I remember i got anxiety issue when was doing breath methods from a tantra tradition which I learned in a local center. Also I got lungs problem by doing it. Instructor could not help me at all but she charged me every time when I was coming to classes. Then I mixed few methods from different traditions and wanted to succeed in my "spirituality". WRONG WRONG approach. Also I practiced from DVDs and books mixing up things. Sometime I could not fall asleep and was anxious without any reason. Only when I gave up doing all that stuff and got transmission in good lineage thing began to improve. Also I realized that beginner just is not able to do qigong right. Besides it is not easy to find good qigong teacher. Now I do very soft qigong and some alchemy method which are very soft and I believe that supervision of good instructor is MUST have almost for everyone. Also I was lucky to meet an excellent Siberian therapist who worked out my energy blockages. He is quite enlightened person and he said clearly that people do mistake trying to practice from video or books and that it is very much about ones personal karma to get benefit from any practice. He says that it is impossible to practice right when one has problem with spinal column what is very common. This can only increase a blockage of energy. Only enlightened person can teach right methods and it is very much about transmission " from heart to heart". No book can replace it. Only people who have good karma and spiritual experience from previous lives can benefit from video or book. Authentic qigong or neikong is very rare nowadays. I remember I had been practicing Iron Shirt for 2 years without any benefit and no one else benefited from it in that group and that instructor did not realize that his approach was wrong in the very beginning. He did not teach soft qigong in the beginning in order to smooth out energy and open qi channels in students. He always smiled and said that we did not practice good enough. I remember anxiety issue I got from that practice. He stated he was enlightened person and he charged good price. Unfortunately it is quite common thing nowadays. I believe it is crucial to practice in a group of people where there is real teacher within authentic lineage. Anxiety issue will not happen to anyone in this case. It would be a first sign of wrong practice or wrong approach.

 

Would you like to share your authentic lineage and your teacher with us?

Edited May 8, 2014 by Jox

[Antares]

I can. But the question how it will help you. I am not here for the promotion of my school and teacher. I practice in a group where we have experienced instructor who constantly visit seminars which are held by the Russian branch of the quite famous Taoist School in China. We have methods of the 2 Taoists schools also we practice qigong in the beginning which is mix of the best exercises which they picked up in China for 20 years meeting various Chinese masters. Beware of fishy guys here on TTB who create fake schools. Do research before going to a seminar and paying money

[johndoe2012]

.

Edited May 15, 2014 by chris d

[GrandmasterP]

I can. But the question how it will help you. I am not here for the promotion of my school and teacher. I practice in a group where we have experienced instructor who constantly visit seminars which are held by the Russian branch of the quite famous Taoist School in China. We have methods of the 2 Taoists schools also we practice qigong in the beginning which is mix of the best exercises which they picked up in China for 20 years meeting various Chinese masters. Beware of fishy guys here on TTB who create fake schools. Do research before going to a seminar and paying money

 

Loved that " fishy guys here on TTB.", MH excluded of course, he's genuine and his fish are Koi carp.

Quacks is a maybe politer and more accurate for the nostrum slingers.

If the bogus 'medical' dime store 'doctors' on here and elsewhere weren't potentially dangerous they'd be merely contemptible.

Having a real teacher there with you beats any and all solo efforts attempted via books or DVDs.

 

[Jox]

I can. But the question how it will help you. I am not here for the promotion of my school and teacher. I practice in a group where we have experienced instructor who constantly visit seminars which are held by the Russian branch of the quite famous Taoist School in China. We have methods of the 2 Taoists schools also we practice qigong in the beginning which is mix of the best exercises which they picked up in China for 20 years meeting various Chinese masters. Beware of fishy guys here on TTB who create fake schools. Do research before going to a seminar and paying money

 

I guess you come from Wu Liu Pai school ... Right?

 

A common behavior here on TTB ... authentic lineage this and that ..., thrue theacher this and that ... but when asked for names ... usually this kind of qustions get ignored or avoided ...

Edited May 8, 2014 by Jox

[johndoe2012]

Loved that " fishy guys here on TTB.", MH excluded of course, he's genuine and his fish are Koi carp.Quacks is a maybe politer and more accurate for the nostrum slingers.If the bogus 'medical' dime store 'doctors' on here and elsewhere weren't potentially dangerous they'd be merely contemptible.Having a real teacher there with you beats any and all solo efforts attempted via books or DVDs.

That assumes that the teacher is omniscient.

[Jox]

NO NO NO. Avoid this stuff. There is no lineage and a lot of crap. You, guys, going nuts offering these crazy things to each other.

 

 

Some info for inner smile ... :)

http://www.gyahl.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/04Smile.pdf

 

An interesting paper.

[GrandmasterP]

That assumes that the teacher is omniscient.

Did you assume that?

Apologies if that was the impression conveyed as such was unintended.

A good teacher is there to teach, encourage and correct where and when one is learning.

A book or DVD can't do that.

You'll perhaps have noted my comments as to lineage elsewhere.

In brief..

Cultivation is not a belief it is a practice.

Reputable teachers are recognised other than self-referentially.

All quacks are self referential, most lineage holders are not but some are as they create and authorise one another to create their own dubious lineage.

Hence 'lineage' is a sticky term.

Our fundamentalist Buddhist ( for one example) chums who really need to believe in something believe in lineage as some sort of magical woo.

For them a piss head like Trungpa was still a wonderful teacher because he held lineage.

Anywhere else the guy would have been sacked as a teacher because he was generally drunk off his face when teaching and was less than gentlemanly and worse towards some young women students.

That's one extreme of lineage.

On the other hand an accredited 'line' of teachers within a long established school and subject to the ethical precepts , training and quality assurance of that school's line - may not be seen as a 'valid lineage' by the sorts who think lineage is magical woo ( it isn't).

I don't think that it is and prefer 'accreditation' to 'lineage'.

I'm accredited by the Chinese organisation linked to in my sig.

That, to me; means something and it also means that my students are taught and receive accredited qualifications by and from an authorised body.

They know what they are getting and the awards are 'portable' and internationally recognised.

No biggie in one way but what sort of degree does a patient want to see?

Something from a bogus 'college' situated above a kebab shop saying that the holder is a 'Doctor' or something from an accredited medical school.

These dime store diploma guys can and do simply print their own and their learners 'qualifications'.

There's neither peer review nor independent quality assurance.

Ultimately if you need to believe in something mystical then mystical-lineage is probably as good a thing to believe in as is any other mystical-woo and serves equal purpose.

None at all beyond the narrow confines of those 'true believers in woo'.

 

Hope that helps.

Edited May 8, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[johndoe2012]

Ha, I liked the kebab shop line :-)

 

Anyway, here is my view.

 

The real teacher is yourself meaning you are guiding yourself along the way. Assuming someone knows better than you can feel for yourself is a big error.

 

That doesn't mean you shouldn't seek out methods and so on because we are humans and not rocks which can be perfectly still and not do anything.

 

My personality vibes with variety so one technique done 30 years to become a carbon copy of someone else doesn't fit in.

[joeblast]

inner smile is a fantastic exercise

[johndoe2012]

Just sitting with no goal I guess it is a good antidote for those with anxiety.

 

Putting a goal in front of you increases frustration and keeps the I alive.

 

Deep down I sense a fear of death / annihilation so feeling safe and comfort is helpful.

 

I have listened to some of the inductions by David Cicia at blissofpeace.com which might get that sense of bliss and joy one is searching for.

[Satya]

Just sitting with no goal I guess it is a good antidote for those with anxiety.

Sounds like the first part of Adyashanti's True Meditation/Zazen. Just sit, and allow everything to be as it is.

[Antares]

inner smile is a fantastic exercise

 

For what goal? There are LOADS of "fantastic" exercises disclosed in thousands of books. Today they feel "fantastic" after doing this and that and what about tomorrow, after tomorrow, week, month, year, 10, 100? How you will bw fantastic in 100 years, man?

 

I click specially for you. Enjoy it

[Antares]

I guess you come from Wu Liu Pai school ... Right?

 

A common behavior here on TTB ... authentic lineage this and that ..., thrue theacher this and that ... but when asked for names ... usually this kind of qustions get ignored or avoided ...

 

i am not from Wu Lu Pai. I am more in YuXianPai (school of meeting immortals) at the moment. The patriarch of this school comes to Russia every year. Also all initiated taoist know the name of the Wu Lu Pai's patriarch and many of them saw him. People go to China every year. Every year they hold plenty of seminars and practice intensives which you can attend and try this methods. What' the problem? That you do not know the name of the Teacher? His name is secret for the public for the safety measures. Remember that authentic Taoism is half way "legal" in China and suffered a lot in the last century. Recently many of taoist sects had to go "underground " bc of Falun Dafa' politics issue. You might be expect that Taoist teacher will knock your door in order to prove his authentication. But they do not come to people to prove something to them, they come to the people who practice and who really dedicated to Taoism.

Edited May 9, 2014 by Antares

[johndoe2012]

Jetsun,

 

It was interesting that you quit your job after the vortex healing seminar.

 

I wonder if the blockages in the heart is what keeps one from pursuing our passion?

 

What's your view on this?