How does one 'choose' a religion, spiritual path, etc?

[DreamBliss]

Nice post.

The trouble we have if we have trouble is that for most of us there's nowhere much to meet up with likeminded folks on a regular basis. Churches tend to be open most Sundays and have some social activities on during the week too.

Temple Buddhism is pretty social as well.

Taoism though...

Very little west of Suez and where it happens it tends to be encultured.

There's one Longmen sect English- born Taoist priest working in the UK.

That's it.

The remainder tends towards martial arts- peripheral or academic interest and that sporadically.

 

This is what I am experiencing. I am in a town that is predominantly Christian, and everyone I live with is Christian. There are something like half a dozen churches within 2 miles of my home, and more scattered around town. The only alternative faith I have is Christian Science. I think there is a monastery of some sort probably 10 miles away, so well outside walking or biking distance.

 

We have to adopt the Christian solution. When Christians don't have a church to go and meet at, they meet at someone's home. So we of alternative spirituality should start home meetings. Because one thing all religious institutions have figured out - we need fellowship with like-minded people. People who share our faith, or interests, or whatever. We need that social outlet.

 

The problem with heeding our own counsel is that we only get one point of view. We need that environment where we can go, feel supported, and have multiple points of view. We need physical contact, hugs and hand shaking. Forums are nice, but we define reality by our senses, we can't help but do this naturally, so a place like this isn't as real to us as going somewhere and being physically around others.

 

And heck, if you are a horny or lonely guy or girl, but you don't like to bar hop and party, how are you going to meet someone of the opposite sex? Nothing sucks worse than a one-sided relationship, you and some image or name on your computer screen, and sex is decidedly unfullfilling.

 

So yeah, we need to start some home groups. Maybe we could start a thread for this? Moderators? What do you think? Keep the personal location information out, post the state and city you are located in if you want to start a home meeting, and let others who want to meet in that area PM the original poster or something. This something we can do?

 

I'm in Camas, WA, in case there are any other Camas residents around here...

Edited April 29, 2014 by DreamBliss

[doc benway]

...

 

 

Yes.

 

That is a most marvellous expression of truth.

 

I always seek to devote myself to wisdom and compassion.

 

Seek wisdom forever.

 

Just be good forever.

 

Simple.

 

It ain't you know what.

 

...

I have to disagree with you, sir.

It is exceedingly simple.

Unfortunately, it is equally difficult.

Simple does not necessarily mean easy!

 

edit - spelling blunder

Edited April 29, 2014 by steve

[ThisLife]

I have to disagree with you, sir.

It is exceedingly simple.

Unfortunately, it is equally difficult.

Simple does not necessarily mean easy!

 

edit - spelling blunder

 

I agree very much with the sentiment of what you've said. , Like yourself I wouldn't say it's easy,....But as for myself , I wouldn't even say it's 'simple' either.

 

Of course some explanations are simple, ad there will always be people who are attracted to simple explanations who will love these theories. But whether the explanation is simple or complex, one thing is always true : The explanation is NEVER the thing it's describing.

 

The thing we're trying to understand and explain to ourselves or others,... goes on completely independently of our explanations and mental gymnastics. Or perhaps more accurately, life 'includes' all our theories, as well as everything else that exists in 'the three times and the ten directions', (to borrow a Buddhist turn of phrase).

 

My feeling is that all one can truthfully say about this conundrum of our existence is that "It is what it is."

 

But of course, that doesn't satisfy our human need for a type of answer that we can "do" something with. So we set off seeking till we find an explanation, be it simple or complex. popular or shunned, logical or emotional, active or passive,..... whatever appeals to our particular hard wiring. Then we inwardly shout, "Eureka ! At last I've found the truth !"

 

Meanwhile, life has carried on quietly doing what it always has. Our theories and beliefs have been a living part of life from before we were even conscious that we had them.

 

*

Edited April 29, 2014 by ThisLife

[ChiForce]

...

It made a very great deal of sense.

 

We all suffer for our errors.

 

Can we see and know our error so thoroughly, that avoiding it becomes second nature?

 

It is not an easy thing.

 

Always seek to resolve your karma

 

By which I mean simply the attitudes and actions which have led to the suffering in your life.

 

Many of these actions are an unconscious result of habit condititioning.

 

I adopt a monkish habit.

 

Sometimes it's a heavy load.

 

I didn't choose.

 

I resolved to study as many different schools of philosophy,religion and spirituality as I could.

 

To find the single eternal secret within all.

 

Difficult to speak of is the operation of the inconceivable origin.

 

But we label it DAO, this activity.

 

It is the very action of LIFE itself.

 

That only do I serve.

 

LIFE itself.

 

Proto Shaman I only.

 

Most primitive I.

 

Sophia my only love.

 

Call me Philosopher always.

...

Sometimes, other people's karma (like from your extended family) are being passed on to you. Then, your suffering are coming from your own karmas and other people's karmas...and your past life karmas. All of a sudden, your entire world is crashing down on you. The darkest of the dark, the stickiest karmas!!!

[GrandmasterP]

This is what I am experiencing. I am in a town that is predominantly Christian, and everyone I live with is Christian. There are something like half a dozen churches within 2 miles of my home, and more scattered around town. The only alternative faith I have is Christian Science. I think there is a monastery of some sort probably 10 miles away, so well outside walking or biking distance.

 

We have to adopt the Christian solution. When Christians don't have a church to go and meet at, they meet at someone's home. So we of alternative spirituality should start home meetings. Because one thing all religious institutions have figured out - we need fellowship with like-minded people. People who share our faith, or interests, or whatever. We need that social outlet.

 

The problem with heeding our own counsel is that we only get one point of view. We need that environment where we can go, feel supported, and have multiple points of view. We need physical contact, hugs and hand shaking. Forums are nice, but we define reality by our senses, we can't help but do this naturally, so a place like this isn't as real to us as going somewhere and being physically around others.

 

And heck, if you are a horny or lonely guy or girl, but you don't like to bar hop and party, how are you going to meet someone of the opposite sex? Nothing sucks worse than a one-sided relationship, you and some image or name on your computer screen, and sex is decidedly unfullfilling.

 

So yeah, we need to start some home groups. Maybe we could start a thread for this? Moderators? What do you think? Keep the personal location information out, post the state and city you are located in if you want to start a home meeting, and let others who want to meet in that area PM the original poster or something. This something we can do?

 

I'm in Camas, WA, in case there are any other Camas residents around here...

 

TaiChi/QiGong, Yoga or Martial Arts venues are a good place to meet like minded folks.

Not so easy to start a group from scratch though.

Unitarians and Quakers towards being pretty cool about renting space cheaply to meditation gigs and the like.

There's even a Unitarian Zen sangha in Boston.

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

I am a Unitarian.

 

And I've always been exceptionally fond of The Quakers.

 

...

[ThisLife]

Sometimes, other people's karma (like from your extended family) are being passed on to you. Then, your suffering are coming from your own karmas and other people's karmas...and your past life karmas. All of a sudden, your entire world is crashing down on you. The darkest of the dark, the stickiest karmas!!!

 

All this talk of 'karma' sets off twinges of uneasiness in my mind. I think that I know where you're coming from in putting it the way you do since, for well over twenty years I believed 'beyond-a-shadow-of-doubt' in that highly attractive concept myself.

 

But now I find myself thinking that it is perhaps helpful to bear in mind that concepts like karma, as much as they appeal to our desire for logic, are still only mentally created models with which we human beings try to assuage our relentless inner questions about the nature of our existence. I found that coming across other seekers' different ideas about such concepts actually helped bump my own mind out its comfortable state of complacency, (into which it is always seems joyfully prone to sink into, like a comfortable arm chair.)

 

If your own mind finds itself interested in stepping out of its comfort zone for a breath of fresh spring air, you might want to check out this wee story by Richard Sylvester :

 

*

 

*

 

*

 

 

The laws of karma are a very attractive story. But this communication destroys all that.

 

The mind sometimes hates hearing this communication. One of the reasons that the mind can hate it so much is that the mind loves justice. So the mind wants to hear a story that says, “Ultimately, there will be justice.” Yet clearly there is very little justice in this ‘earthly realm’.

 

There are only two kinds of story about justice that will ultimately work for the mind. One of these is that eventually God will make everything OK because we will go to heaven but our accursed enemies will rot in hell. That’ll be justice ! Oh yes !

 

(Of course the best thing about heaven is that it has a huge window in it through which we will be able to watch our enemies rotting in hell. In fact, without the window, it would not be heaven.)

 

Alternatively, there is the story of karma, which tells us that there will be justice in a subsequent lifetime. This has the same effect of guaranteeing justice, because in our next life, or in the one after, our enemy will be in our power. Instead of him making our life a misery, we will be able to make his life a misery.

 

At this point the stories of both heaven and karma can become much more noble and sophisticated, because they can bring in our magnificent attempts to rise above the urge for primitive vengeance by developing compassion for our enemies. We can even attempt to become a bodhisattva. This has the additional advantage that we will also be able to beat ourself up when we inevitably fail.

 

It is natural for the mind to be attracted to these stories. The mind lives in a world of cause and effect. In a world of cause and effect there is good and bad, justice and injustice. The mind would like to put things right. That is quite a noble thing for the mind to want to do.

 

But liberation has nothing to do with the mind and nothing to do with cause and effect. That is why, when non-duality was seen within the Christian tradition and within some other traditions as well, there was so often an urge to kill the one who saw it. This is such an affront to everything that religion teaches. No wonder they tried to kill Meister Eckhart, for example.

 

*

[GrandmasterP]

Aye, in some lives we doubt karma.

That's our karma.

This time around.

Edited April 30, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[ThisLife]

Aye, in some lives we doubt karma.

That's our karma.

This time around.

 

*

 

Do you believe in free will ?

 

“Of course, I have no choice.”

 

 

Isaac Bashevis Singer

 

*

[ChiForce]

*

 

Do you believe in free will ?

 

“Of course, I have no choice.”

 

 

Isaac Bashevis Singer

 

*

Your will is only as free as you can recognize your karma and to resolve it and to earn merit. A lot of times, people aren't aware their lives are dictated by their karmic pasts or karmic influence from other people (abusive relationship, born in the wrong family, or being a blacksheep in your entire family, or being discriminated and outcasted by the world). From a psychological perspective, it is called a complex (unexplainable attachment or clinging onto some objects or ideas because you thought they are supposed to be good for you). When I was growing up, I was a blacksheep. Why? Don't know or didn't know. Fortunately, in my various past lives, I have accumulated enough good merit to become awakened at a very young age. My awakening was revolutionary and as a condemnation of the world we are living... Call me a Dharma warrior.

Edited April 30, 2014 by ChiForce

[GrandmasterP]

You are a Dharma warrior.

 

[ThisLife]

Your will is only as free as you can recognize your karma and to resolve it and to earn merit. A lot of times, people aren't aware their lives are dictated by their karmic pasts or karmic influence from other people (abusive relationship, born in the wrong family, or being a blacksheep in your entire family, or being discriminated and outcasted by the world). From a psychological perspective, it is called a complex (unexplainable attachment or clinging onto some objects or ideas because you thought they are supposed to be good for you). When I was growing up, I was a blacksheep. Why? Don't know or didn't know. Fortunately, in my various past lives, I have accumulated enough good merit to become awakened at a very young age. My awakening was revolutionary and as a condemnation of the world we are living... Call me a Dharma warrior.

 

Hiya ChiForce,

 

I can very clearly sense the sincerity of your beliefs which you speak of with such conviction. I don't honestly think I'm saying this out of a desire to let the air out of your enthusiasm,.... but from my own experience, I think it's very helpful in wherever our spiritual seeking takes us,... to be aware that there is a difference between 'faith', and 'knowledge'.

 

I was part of an incredibly gung-ho Tibetan Buddhist group for many years. Everyone there spoke about all manner of extremely esoteric subjects in voices of only the strongest possible assurance. They actively encouraged all the newbies to speak with the same faith and conviction. For a while, I myself also enjoyed speaking while fired up with that bright flame of spiritual intensity. It felt somehow like,.... if I "believed and proclaimed " my faith strongly enough,... then the force of my convictions might well burst through the barriers that separated me from realizations and ultimately, perhaps even from enlightenment !

 

But after a few years, in my heart of hearts, I knew that I didn't have any personal experience of what I was talking about. Then, when I started to look around at some of the most outspoken of that religious hierarchy, I began to question whether they actually "knew" what they were talking about either.

 

With the passage of years, the place was rocked by many sexual scandals, and I noticed that very few of the monks and nuns were still there ten years after their original blaze of enthusiasm. Basically, the entire highly organized structure, (despite the precious nature of Buddha's teachings),... I feel, was largely just a creation of wishful thinking and creative imagination.

 

Those two forces are very subtle, difficult to notice within our mind, and I think they are pitfalls on virtually every spiritual seeker's path. My feeling is that the best way to avoid falling into this extremely common trap is to try to always be aware of the difference between what you actually "know", and what are "objects of your faith", (however brightly that may burn).

 

I hope my recounting these experiences might be of help to you.

 

*

Edited April 30, 2014 by ThisLife

[ChiForce]

Hiya ChiForce,

 

I can very clearly sense the sincerity of your beliefs which you speak of with such conviction. I don't honestly think I'm saying this out of a desire to let the air out of your enthusiasm,.... but from my own experience, I think it's very helpful in wherever our spiritual seeking takes us,... to be aware that there is a difference between 'faith', and 'knowledge'.

 

I was part of an incredibly gung-ho Tibetan Buddhist group for many years. Everyone there spoke about all manner of extremely esoteric subjects in voices of only the strongest possible assurance. They actively encouraged all the newbies to speak with the same faith and conviction. For a while, I myself also enjoyed speaking while fired up with that bright flame of spiritual intensity. It felt somehow like,.... if I "believed and proclaimed " my faith strongly enough,... then the force of my convictions might well burst through the barriers that separated me from realizations and ultimately, perhaps even from enlightenment !

 

But after a few years, in my heart of hearts, I knew that I didn't have any personal experience of what I was talking about. Then, when I started to look around at some of the most outspoken of that religious hierarchy, I began to question whether they actually "knew" what they were talking about either.

 

With the passage of years, the place was rocked by many sexual scandals, and I noticed that very few of the monks and nuns were still there ten years after their original blaze of enthusiasm. Basically, the entire highly organized structure, (despite the precious nature of Buddha's teachings),... I feel, was largely just a creation of wishful thinking and creative imagination.

 

Those two forces are very subtle, difficult to notice within our mind, and I think they are pitfalls on virtually every spiritual seeker's path. My feeling is that the best way to avoid falling into this extremely common trap is to try to always be aware of the difference between what you actually "know", and what are "objects of your faith", (however brightly that may burn).

 

I hope my recounting these experiences might be of help to you.

 

*

No, no, no...it has nothing to do with faith, conviction, or beliefs. Certainly no new age kind of thing... You know what karma is when you went to sleep one night and woke up late at night with a sudden kundalini energy rising opening all of your chakras and followed by a nimitta appearance...with brief seconds of jhana....after dreaming some Taoist immortals. Your whole life was changed at that point. You have no prior knowledge of Buddhist teaching, Taoist teaching, and let alone all the new age crap.

 

I don't like to beating up a dead horse with my path. Here is what I wrote a week earlier.... Karma is no joke. Your ego is nothing. Your so-called will is delusional. The last thing your ego wants to see is the goddess Kali Ma...the darkness of the dark. The void of all the void. The Tao.... The forever yin.....

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/34292-what-exactly-is-grasping/page-5

Edited April 30, 2014 by ChiForce

[ChiForce]

Hiya ChiForce,

 

I can very clearly sense the sincerity of your beliefs which you speak of with such conviction. I don't honestly think I'm saying this out of a desire to let the air out of your enthusiasm,.... but from my own experience, I think it's very helpful in wherever our spiritual seeking takes us,... to be aware that there is a difference between 'faith', and 'knowledge'.

 

I was part of an incredibly gung-ho Tibetan Buddhist group for many years. Everyone there spoke about all manner of extremely esoteric subjects in voices of only the strongest possible assurance. They actively encouraged all the newbies to speak with the same faith and conviction. For a while, I myself also enjoyed speaking while fired up with that bright flame of spiritual intensity. It felt somehow like,.... if I "believed and proclaimed " my faith strongly enough,... then the force of my convictions might well burst through the barriers that separated me from realizations and ultimately, perhaps even from enlightenment !

 

But after a few years, in my heart of hearts, I knew that I didn't have any personal experience of what I was talking about. Then, when I started to look around at some of the most outspoken of that religious hierarchy, I began to question whether they actually "knew" what they were talking about either.

 

With the passage of years, the place was rocked by many sexual scandals, and I noticed that very few of the monks and nuns were still there ten years after their original blaze of enthusiasm. Basically, the entire highly organized structure, (despite the precious nature of Buddha's teachings),... I feel, was largely just a creation of wishful thinking and creative imagination.

 

Those two forces are very subtle, difficult to notice within our mind, and I think they are pitfalls on virtually every spiritual seeker's path. My feeling is that the best way to avoid falling into this extremely common trap is to try to always be aware of the difference between what you actually "know", and what are "objects of your faith", (however brightly that may burn).

 

I hope my recounting these experiences might be of help to you.

 

*

I also want to point out that karma does not play a role in your life directly, certainly, not some mundane activities like living your life from day to day, year to year. Only when you are stretching your consciousness limit as in pursing a spiritual path, karma begins to kick in. Master Nan said it often that to succeed in your cultivation, you must have merit. Merit derided from your understanding, the practicing of the Dharma. Karmic merit from your past life. This karmic merit will make your path a lot easier to follow and seeing the result you need.

Edited April 30, 2014 by ChiForce

[GrandmasterP]

To some extent we've won by being born or reborn human for starters.

It's a longer haul from say being born or reborn as a sea slug or a politician.

There has to be a degree of past merit for us to be human, this time around.

Hence I like to think that everyone sets off on a more or less equal footing as far as cultivation goes.

For sure it will come easier to those with lots of merit 'in the bank' but not to the extent that anyone should ever think, as one of our chums has done elsewhere on here today... ( quote) ...

" I am a useless piece of shit" ( unquote) ...hence there seems to be no point in bothering trying for improvement.

There's always a point cos, having been born a human being, to some extent; we're already in front of the game.

Edited April 30, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Rara]

While talking to a Bhakti-yoga practitioner today, I couldn't help but notice the many similarities between the way these practitioners (Hare Krishna folk) live their life compared to Buddhist and Taoist teachings.

 

Basically, and unsurprisingly, religion and/or spirituality share many common principles. But how does one hone in on one school of thought? For example, if I choose to become a Bhakti practitioner, I feel like I would be missing out on a whole other world, namely, Buddhism and Taoism.

 

Anybody here 'migrated' from one religion or spiritual path to another or encountered this question along their own path?

 

Thank you for your time to read this

Oh, and...

 

Cherry pick from them all if you like. Build your own religion.

 

The broader exploration is much more useful than sticking to one or two. Especially if one of them is full of crazy dogmas and "truths" (which is just some wordy spiritual gaga) ...you could end up wasting your whole life following!

[GrandmasterP]

Really silly hats.

Can't have a religion without really silly hats.

That's the law.

Religious Taoism wins hands down in the silly hat stakes.

Edited May 9, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[ThisLife]

^

 

Believe those who are seeking the Truth.
Doubt those who find it.
Andre Gide

 

*

Edited May 10, 2014 by ThisLife

[DreamBliss]

I think there is another trap to watch out for here...

 

As a Christian I was told I was a sinner and needed saving.

 

Buddhists, Hinduists and Taoists, among others, teach that there is this thing called karma everyone has to work out.

 

I do not believe either exist. There is no such thing as sin, because everyone is born perfect. Most of us just forget that on the way. Someone enlightened probably remembered it.

 

There is no such thing as karma for the same reason. Both karma and sin imply that there is something wrong, something that has to be done, something you have to be saved from, or work through,

 

I think there is only action and conseqence. Everything we do will have some sort of effect. This is not resulting from karma or some sort of punishment for sin. This is just something to keep in mind, so that we are careful of the actions we take. This inspires us to act and move in love while remaining in the present moment.

 

I doubt very highly there is some place of eternal suffering those who do not become Christians will end up. Nor do I believe there is some process of reincarnation in the sense that we need to keep working through things until, some time in an indeterminate fuuture, we finish our last life, having learned everything we needed to, and jet off somewhere off the wheel of reincarnation. It seems the Christian belief of Heaven and this other have a lot in common here.

 

But why do these spiritual practices have us focusing on some future, rather that right here, now, in this moment, this body, and this life? This is the only moment you have. Your past moments are gone, your future moments do not exist yet, the best you can hope to do is draw from the past to create some fantasy idea of what the future may be. But the truth is there is only this moment.

 

This is a fallicy I think in many, if not all, of the organized religions. Any system of beliefs that for any reason has you focusing on the future, when you will be enlightened, when you will go to Heaven, when you will work out your karma, is suspect.

 

If everyone on earth, all of humanity, focused on this life, and this moment, our planet would not be in the state it is in, there would be no crime, and we would become a society that lives hamronoiusly with our world as well as with each other. As it is with Christians saying things like, "This is not my home" we find crime and pollution. After all why does this world matter if it is not my home? Why does this life matter if it is not the one where I have freed myself of my karma? I'll work out my karma in the next life, or God will take care of things. These are not, in my opinion, good mindsets to have.

 

I have said some of this before. I simply wish to urge people to be cautious with anything that tells them that they are broken, or need fixing, or are lacking, or need to do something, or need to work on something. That, it seems to me, is engaging the seeker, which reinforces the ego. If you want to grow spiritually, you have to move beyond the ego, beyond seeking.

Edited May 17, 2014 by DreamBliss

[GreytoWhite]

http://www.amazon.com/Create-Your-Own-Religion-Instructions/dp/1938875028

[LAOLONG]

for me it is like science

a quest for the truth

with skepticism .

[LAOLONG]

http://www.bodysoulandspirit.net/mystical_experiences/learn/experts_define/stace.shtml

[ChiForce]

I think there is another trap to watch out for here...

 

As a Christian I was told I was a sinner and needed saving.

 

Buddhists, Hinduists and Taoists, among others, teach that there is this thing called karma everyone has to work out.

 

I do not believe either exist. There is no such thing as sin, because everyone is born perfect. Most of us just forget that on the way. Someone enlightened probably remembered it.

 

There is no such thing as karma for the same reason. Both karma and sin imply that there is something wrong, something that has to be done, something you have to be saved from, or work through,

 

I think there is only action and conseqence. Everything we do will have some sort of effect. This is not resulting from karma or some sort of punishment for sin. This is just something to keep in mind, so that we are careful of the actions we take. This inspires us to act and move in love while remaining in the present moment.

 

I doubt very highly there is some place of eternal suffering those who do not become Christians will end up. Nor do I believe there is some process of reincarnation in the sense that we need to keep working through things until, some time in an indeterminate fuuture, we finish our last life, having learned everything we needed to, and jet off somewhere off the wheel of reincarnation. It seems the Christian belief of Heaven and this other have a lot in common here.

 

But why do these spiritual practices have us focusing on some future, rather that right here, now, in this moment, this body, and this life? This is the only moment you have. Your past moments are gone, your future moments do not exist yet, the best you can hope to do is draw from the past to create some fantasy idea of what the future may be. But the truth is there is only this moment.

 

This is a fallicy I think in many, if not all, of the organized religions. Any system of beliefs that for any reason has you focusing on the future, when you will be enlightened, when you will go to Heaven, when you will work out your karma, is suspect.

 

If everyone on earth, all of humanity, focused on this life, and this moment, our planet would not be in the state it is in, there would be no crime, and we would become a society that lives hamronoiusly with our world as well as with each other. As it is with Christians saying things like, "This is not my home" we find crime and pollution. After all why does this world matter if it is not my home? Why does this life matter if it is not the one where I have freed myself of my karma? I'll work out my karma in the next life, or God will take care of things. These are not, in my opinion, good mindsets to have.

 

I have said some of this before. I simply wish to urge people to be cautious with anything that tells them that they are broken, or need fixing, or are lacking, or need to do something, or need to work on something. That, it seems to me, is engaging the seeker, which reinforces the ego. If you want to grow spiritually, you have to move beyond the ego, beyond seeking.

The problem with your understanding is that you think karma is all bad. No....there are good karmas. They are both equally important. Is the good karmas mainly responsible for someone to have reached a higher cultivation level. Not because he or she spends more time meditating or to have read more Sutras. For the love of humanity, do you have visions and dreams about your past life or lives? If not, well, you probably don't have much controls of your current karma at the moment.

[DreamBliss]

Good and Bad are human inventions.

 

There are no extremes at the Source.

 

If there is Good Karma, there must also be Bad Karma.

 

So throw out Karma, along with Sin.

 

But do not close yourself off. Remain open, always remain open.

 

Because maybe Good Karma exists. Maybe Bad Karma exists. Maybe Sin exists.

 

As long as the possibility of existence is there, remain open.

 

Just don't invest belief energy into anything that can hinder your spiritual growth. Accepting one thing as good means accepting its opposite. You can't have one without the other. So don't believe in either, yet remain open that either may be true.

 

This is how you find truth. Leave all avenues open, until, in your own experience, they lead to dead ends. Then retrace your steps, remembering what you have learned, and cross that road off your spiritual map.

 

My practice is not to accept any chains, or anything that could lead to chains. My practice is to remain free, open and receptive. My practice is to go beyond duality, beyond good/bad, light/dark, sin/perfection.

 

My practice is seeking Truth. Is it really true that everything, everyone, all of creation, is in reality all one? If everything is one, then there can be no good or bad. Things just are. The world, all of creation, simply is.

 

Human perception sees good and bad, right and wrong. Take off those glasses and then look. What do you see beyond your filters, beyond your criticisms, beyond your judgments?

 

Human perception of good/bad, right/wrong, sinner/saint causes and enforces separations. If we are all one, then why are we trying to be separate? That is living a lie.

 

I do not know if we are all one. This is not a state I have first-hand experience with. But it does make the most sense, so I have loosely adopted this as truth. If it is not truth, then I will release it and let it go.

 

I do know what the experience of being labelled a sinner, of being separate, is like, and putting on my own glasses, in my perception I would say this was bad. Harmful to me and not helpful to my spiritual growth. I have crossed these streets off my own personal map.

 

Every bird must chip its own way out of the shell to emerge into the world. We can not break this shell for you. You must use your own beak to break through into your own spiritual path. All we can do is share our experiences and what, through them, seems to us to be truth.

 

I have shared my truth. Is it your truth? Only you know that.

[GrandmasterP]

Unitarians is possibly a good call buddy.

There's sure to be a Unitarian church not too far away.

It's pretty tough starting up a group from scratch anywhere and Unitarians may well have a meditation group,already established.

Leicester Great Meeting Unitarians in the city near us has its own zen Sangha that meets once a week.

The chief advantage of getting out lies in meeting other people with similar interests.

You're unlikely to find many taoists and even if you did chances are they'd be Chinese and there'd be a huge cultural barrier.

Besides that Taoism on here bears little resemblance to Taoism enacted on the ground.

In Taiwan for example Taoist temples are a bit like Episcopalian churches in the USA.

Full of people going through ritual 'motions' without giving much thought to what they are doing and very reluctant to discuss it.

Hope you find a group to suit you, all good wishes for success.

Edited May 18, 2014 by GrandmasterP