Adyashanti

[Jetsun]

I heard that Adyashanti is going to be on Oprah this weekend so before he goes all mainstream I am using this post to come out AA style as a big fan of his, I know he isn't popular with the official Buddhist boards who for whatever reason don't see him as legit or see him as new age, but I have been reading Buddhist books and visiting teachers for many years including some of those who are masters of the highest Tibetan lineages and I find Adyashanti to be by far one of the most articulate and clear teachers I have found.

 

I doubted him for a long time but what I found remarkable after is that after hearing and watching maybe a hundred of his videos and talks every time he expresses himself it is spontaneous and always talks unrehearsed directly from personal experience, he doesn't require old sutras or elaborate intellectual concepts to express what he is saying (although he can refer to them if needed), rather he speaks directly from being. In a lot of his talks he is answering questions from the public who are allowed to ask him anything, so he is always being put on the spot and being tested yet he always comes out with a clear coherent answer.

 

People question his Buddhist credentials but the fact is that he studied with a number of Zen teachers and lineages for about twenty years and his master authorised him to teach, but yet he doesn't say he teaches Buddhism because the whole point of Buddhism is that it should wake you up out of all ism's including Buddhism, so he is no longer identified as being a Buddhist, so therefore he puts no definition on what he teaches now.

 

This is one of his best videos in my opinion

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2wcqjFC13M

 

And you can get a lot of free material from his website

[GrandmasterP]

Adyashanti holds a valid Zen lineage.

Unlike another teacher who has been mentioned here on TTB as being 'genuine' Dharmacharya just this week.

Comments on A ( and that other guy) here...

http://www.dharmawheel.net/search.php?keywords=Adyashanti

Edited April 17, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

No isms.

 

Yes.

 

That's right.

 

I enter the mind drive.

...

Edited April 17, 2014 by Captain Mar-Vell

[GrandmasterP]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Imz277xuoow

 

This one's good too.

I've yet to hear the guy say anything I can't agree with.

His long pauses though.... Those are a tad 'theatrical' IMO.

Maybe different if you're actually there in the room but on camera it looks just a bit 'put on'.

Good lad though and, until he went freelance; was well thought of in USA Zen circles by all accounts.

Edited April 17, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Tibetan_Ice]

This topic has been discussed before

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/28621-adyashanti-the-end-of-your-world/?hl=+adyashanti%20+shaktipat

 

This review was a real eye opener, where Adyashanti says that

 

To close my review, in the beginning of chapter 2, Adyasanti states that enlightenment does not have an experience of love or bliss. That divine ecstacy is only a salespitch.

 

Experiencing "enlightenment" without love is only a tiny glimmer of the enlightened state. This "loveless enlightenment" is commonly expressed by teachers when the ego remains and the Spiritual Heart is unawakened.

 

I have read so many Buddhist and Dzogchen books that say that there is no enlightenment without boddhicitta that I cannot believe anyone would say that... The heart is the key. Even thogal is the mastery of the heart visions through the Kati channel and it is pure bliss/love. Adyashanti missed the boat.

 

Here is the full review..

 

 

 

 

Customer review from the Amazon Vine Program (What's this?)

This book is my first exposure to Adyashanti, reviewing it as a service to the Amazon.com Vine community. Having a deep knowledge of Zen, Dzogchen, and Advaita from teachers like Ramana Maharshi, Papaji, Sosan, and Norbu, I would have never picked up this book. This book is clearly written for a beginner spiritual audience who wants to talk a lot about enlightenment to judge if they can place the "enlightened" nametag on themselves.

 

In "The End of Your World" Adyashanti takes the reader on a journey of what happens to a person when they are "enlightened". He tells the audience what to look for and what to expect, relaying his own stories and personal experience. Clearly this type of approach is only reinforcing the identification of a person with events and isolated experiences, effectively moving the reader's consciousness away from any direct experience of Consciousness back into the analytical self-reflecting mind.

 

If a person were to compare this book with a book by a spiritual teacher such as Ramana Maharshi or Papaji, we would clearly see the difference. While Ramana Maharshi and Papaji take the reader back into the direct experience of Consciousness with every sentence, Adyashanti takes the reader in the opposite direction - further into the egoic mind.

 

So if you want to call yourself "enlightened" but aren't sure if this new nametag fits, you may want to read this book by Adyasanti. However if you only want deep abiding inner peace and stillness, I recommend reading a teacher like Ramana Maharshi.

 

To close my review, in the beginning of chapter 2, Adyasanti states that enlightenment does not have an experience of love or bliss. That divine ecstacy is only a salespitch.

 

Experiencing "enlightenment" without love is only a tiny glimmer of the enlightened state. This "loveless enlightenment" is commonly expressed by teachers when the ego remains and the Spiritual Heart is unawakened.

 

So when a teacher advertises himself as an Advaita teacher and teaches that bliss is not part of enlightenment, a red flag is raised. To quote the most well-known Advaita teacher of our time, Ramana Maharshi:

 

"If it is the real bliss of the Self that is experienced, that is, if the mind has really merged in the Self, such a doubt will not arise at all. The question itself shows real bliss was not reached. All doubts will cease only when the doubter and his source have been found. Bliss is a thing which is always there and is not something which comes and goes. That which comes and goes is a creation of the mind and you should not worry about it."

 

On a similar note, I studied the Zen Buddhist tradition for many years before I first heard a Zen teacher use the term "love" when describing the state of enlightenment. I was shocked when I first heard this word spoken in this context. Zen teachings always appeared dry and devoid of energy.

 

I was at a Zen retreat when I was honored to meet a 97-year old Zen roshi. Of the handful of reputed spiritual teachers that I have been able to sit with or speak to, this man had the most remarkable stillness. His energy field was completely still, yet radiant - not even a shutter of movement in his energy. To this day, I have never seen another person who was so still within.

 

As this 97-year old Zen roshi spoke to us, he described the state of enlightenment as the meeting point of Tathaga and Tathagata, that singular moment when perfect stillness is reached as the duality becomes One. He called this state "True Love". This description was shockingly new to me, a radical departure from the ancient words of Zen and Chan teachers. Yet my direct experience of this roshi - his stillness, depth, and radiance - confirmed that he had experienced this state deeper than anyone I had met before (or to this day).

 

There are a handful of other incomplete understandings that Adyasanti shares in this book. I will not go into these because by now I think any sincere reader can understand the essence of my review of this book.

 

I have always told others to read only the words spoken directly from the master teachers. Avoid re-interpretations and summaries. If you want enlightenment, find a teacher who will give you the way, not one who will talk about what to look for along it.

 

When a student gets to a point in his/her spiritual practice, the realization occurs where talking about enlightenment is useless and even ridiculous. Only the direct experience of inner stillness and lucid clarity is the way and the goal, both occuring in this immediate moment.

 

Words are for the mind. Silence is for the Heart.

 

Namaste.

 

 

 

Edited April 17, 2014 by Tibetan_Ice

[C T]

I have no aversion to Adyashanti, nor any to Buddhism. My Buddhist teachers do not practice elitism ~ they welcome everyone with open arms. If some people have an aversion, or strong attraction for that matter, to any -Ism, that is something they may want to get some clarity around (or not). Shakyamuni taught that to say something is, is dependent on certain conditions, and to say something is not, that too, is dependent on certain conditions. When conditions are optimal, things become, and when this optimality declines, things change accordingly. Teachers are not exempted from this, and if we can bear this in mind, we can remain very open to everything, allowing things to come and go without being too excited or too cynical. Then we can truly say we are in tune with what is happening in and around us, without hope nor fear.

[Jetsun]

This topic has been discussed before

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/28621-adyashanti-the-end-of-your-world/?hl=+adyashanti%20+shaktipat

 

This review was a real eye opener, where Adyashanti says that

 

I have read so many Buddhist and Dzogchen books that say that there is no enlightenment without boddhicitta that I cannot believe anyone would say that... The heart is the key. Even thogal is the mastery of the heart visions through the Kati channel and it is pure bliss/love. Adyashanti missed the boat.

 

Here is the full review..

 

 

 

 

I have heard Adyashanti talk about love quite a lot yet he doesn't confine enlightenment by it, because if you tell someone that it is about love then they create concepts around enlightenment to do with what they already understand love is, so by doing so he has given them an extra conceptual barrier to understanding, whereas the bigger spiritual love isn't much to do with what most people understand as love. As I understand it what most people call love arises within enlightenment, so cant define it and if enlightenment is defined by anything it isn't really free and therefore not really any sort of enlightenment rather its just a nicer prison.

 

These Zen guys are destroyers not creators or supporters of peoples concepts, which is probably why some people have an aversion to them, because on a certain level they are dangerous. But not dangerous in the physical sense, I read that story you posted before about him giving someone shaktipat and I think it must be false because I have heard a lot of talks from his retreats and know someone who has been on a few and he doesn't ever do any shaktipat or any sort of energy work or transmission at all, not in the direct sense anyway like in hindu type shaktipat, so I don't know where that rumour could have come from.

 

But he does talk about opening the heart as a crucial part of awakening, yet he says that to be really awake and embodied in it it is required for you to be awake on the levels of head, heart and gut. In Zen a lot of it is about being awake on the level of gut because that is where some of the most primal attachments to a separate self are located and where the true emptiness is found.

[Jetsun]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Imz277xuoow

 

This one's good too.

I've yet to hear the guy say anything I can't agree with.

His long pauses though.... Those are a tad 'theatrical' IMO.

Maybe different if you're actually there in the room but on camera it looks just a bit 'put on'.

Good lad though and, until he went freelance; was well thought of in USA Zen circles by all accounts.

 

The pauses I think are actually a form of what they call "pointing out instruction", it is an invitation for you to experience kinesthetically where he is speaking from. Of course it is more powerful in person where there can be a more direct entrainment of consciousness, so on a video it might seem a bit strange. But practically all he is saying most of the time is pointing to those gaps either directly or indirectly, so many people may get more out of paying attention to the gaps rather than any words he speaks.

[GrandmasterP]

Yep that can work well in a room and a good speaker will 'read' her or his audience..

Live is always different than recorded. One needs to have been there to call it.

One of the things I do like about Adyashanti is that he wears a wedding ring and on his website are family snaps of him and Mrs Adyashanti doing 'normal' stuff.

We went through a pretty dark time in Zen a while back as far as some residential and retreat situations were concerned.

Indeed repercussions of those days are still around especially in the USA, abuses happened and are only now being owned to have happened.

Nowadays the American Zen Teachers Association has an ethical code and safeguarding measures are in place.

There has never been a whiff of scandal around Adyashanti as far as I know and that has to be good.

I've not read much of his work, more 'about' his work plus what I have seen online.

IMO the guy is Zen teacher and a good communicator of workable Zen praxes .

We have Tony Parsons in Europe saying much the same things.

Why the usual suspects on DW plus some in the wider Buddhist/ Zennist 'establishment' are a bit sniffy about these freelance guys beats me.

Jealousy maybe?

 

I reckon wise TI had the right attitude on that other Adyashanti thread....

 

"Tibetan_Ice, on 12 Jun 2013 - 05:22, said:

 

Anyway, I have lost allot of time studying Adyashanti, and it is time I won't get back. I don't want to waste any more time on this topic. But hopefully my posts will serve as a caution sign and help others get onto a true path with less confusion from the teachings."

 

Anybody interested in the guy can chat about him to our heart's content and those who don't especially like him can leave him alone by not joining in the chat.

Edited April 18, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Jetsun]

Yep that can work well in a room and a good speaker will 'read' her or his audience..

Live is always different than recorded. One needs to have been there to call it.

One of the things I do like about Adyashanti is that he wears a wedding ring and on his website are family snaps of him and Mrs Adyashanti doing 'normal' stuff.

We went through a pretty dark time in Zen a while back as far as some residential and retreat situations were concerned.

Indeed repercussions of those days are still around especially in the USA, abuses happened and are only now being owned to have happened.

Nowadays the American Zen Teachers Association has an ethical code and safeguarding measures are in place.

There has never been a whiff of scandal around Adyashanti as far as I know and that has to be good.

I've not read much of his work, more 'about' his work plus what I have seen online.

IMO the guy is Zen teacher and a good communicator of workable Zen praxes .

We have Tony Parsons in Europe saying much the same things.

Why the usual suspects on DW plus some in the wider Buddhist/ Zennist 'establishment' are a bit sniffy about these freelance guys beats me.

Jealousy maybe?

 

Yeah I think Adyashanti is very grounded and does normal stuff, changing his name is a bit odd to me but I guess each to their own, apparently his real name is Simon which probably doesn't have the same effect. I heard there is quite a lot of scandal in the Zen community in America, I read that Genpo Merzel who invented the "Big mind" zen was sleeping around with his students recently, but I doubt you will find much of that sort of thing around Adyashanti because he seems a bit sort of boring or uncharismatic that it wouldn't suit him. Unfortunately I don't think there is a Zen tradition in the UK that I am aware of but Adyashanti is coming to the UK for the first time this year and doing a retreat which I have signed up for.

 

Tony Parsons is good, I went to see him in person a few weeks ago and it is true that being in person is completely different than a video, if you just relax and become still you can really feel and sense where he is coming from and your own consciousness gets entrained to him, and for me that simplicity and ease and stillness even lasted for a few days afterwards, unfortunately it wasn't permanent, but that's the way it goes

[GrandmasterP]

That whole 'new name' schtick is a bit old really isn't it?

I'm still called 'Premananto' whenever I decide to turn up to any of the Osho reunions.

Mrs GMP rips it out of me whenever the invites arrive in the post addressed to 'Premananto ...My Last Name'.

It means 'Love Infinite' to which Mrs GMP tends to retort.....

" Yeah Right!".

 

My surname is very Irish so I could as well be 'Premananto O'Toole' or very similar.

Sounds a bit daft frankly.

 

:-)

Back in the day it was maybe a bit 'cool' to get a new name when you took Sannyas and I suppose any Guru named Nigel by his parents might want something a bit more mystical sounding to pull in the punters.

Edited April 18, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

I have used many names on the internet over the years.

 

Very many.

 

Always the same me though, the same identity.

 

I don't play act or sock puppet, although I know others do.

 

I guess you could now just call me wiz.

 

I'm not the captain of any ship but my own.

 

You could uze my real name.

 

Dez.

 

Or

 

Dezi, maybe.

 

Coz arm a lil cutie.

 

xxx

...

[GrandmasterP]

 

Yeah I think Adyashanti is very grounded and does normal stuff, changing his name is a bit odd to me but I guess each to their own, apparently his real name is Simon which probably doesn't have the same effect. I heard there is quite a lot of scandal in the Zen community in America, I read that Genpo Merzel who invented the "Big mind" zen was sleeping around with his students recently, but I doubt you will find much of that sort of thing around Adyashanti because he seems a bit sort of boring or uncharismatic that it wouldn't suit him. Unfortunately I don't think there is a Zen tradition in the UK that I am aware of but Adyashanti is coming to the UK for the first time this year and doing a retreat which I have signed up for.

 

Tony Parsons is good, I went to see him in person a few weeks ago and it is true that being in person is completely different than a video, if you just relax and become still you can really feel and sense where he is coming from and your own consciousness gets entrained to him, and for me that simplicity and ease and stillness even lasted for a few days afterwards, unfortunately it wasn't permanent, but that's the way it goes

You did well to get on that Woldingham Retreat.

It was sold out almost before it went online here.

Expect a lot will come over from USA for that then maybe make an extended holiday.

What's the story with those silent retreats he does?

Does he do a talk daily and everyone else keeps silent or can people ask him questions and such?

 

Tony's a nice guy, we were Sannyas bros at Osho Medina before it all went bits up.

He's never altered down the years hasn't Tony.

One of life's true gentlemen.

Zen is massive ( relatively) in the UK.

Possibly more Zennists of one sort or another than any other flavours.

Zen is mega in the UK MA scene.

Everybody ends up a Throssel Hole Abbey at least once.

Edited April 18, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Jetsun]

Jetsun,

 

Do you have more info on attachments to a separate self in the gut you mentioned?

 

I find most "hard" self contractions occur in the gut, maybe it just takes time to resolve them.

 

I will try find what Adyashanti said exactly but from memory he said something like there is a knot like a fist of primal rage right in the gut, and below that is where you find true emptiness

[johndoe2012]

...

Edited January 11, 2015 by johndoe2012

[GrandmasterP]

Gary Nixon has this in a 2013 Paradoxica paper....

"As I worked through these traumas, I came to realize that I also needed to bring no judgment, acceptance, and choiceless awareness to one of the greatest fears itself: physical and psychological death of the self. Put in another way, this fear is the lust for survival. In our guts, we face a primal rudimentary need to survive as we face no self, and nonexistence (Adyashanti, 2008). Becoming aware of the primal grasping at survival, we can experience desperate panic attacks, in which the fear of no-self can be overwhelming. With an instinctual arm thrusting out from our bellies, we grasp at surviving at all costs. This is directly related to experiences of trauma. In trauma, we become overwhelmed with the fear of not existing and desperately grab onto some sense of self in the knot of our belly, as we defend against the oceanic abyss of potential self-annihilation. Deep in trauma is the fear of death and no-self. It is our gut instinct to preserve survival no matter what."

Edited April 18, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Tibetan_Ice]

...

These Zen guys are destroyers not creators or supporters of peoples concepts, which is probably why some people have an aversion to them, because on a certain level they are dangerous. But not dangerous in the physical sense, I read that story you posted before about him giving someone shaktipat and I think it must be false because I have heard a lot of talks from his retreats and know someone who has been on a few and he doesn't ever do any shaktipat or any sort of energy work or transmission at all, not in the direct sense anyway like in hindu type shaktipat, so I don't know where that rumour could have come from.

...

 

It comes from a post at AYP where Christi says the following:

 

http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12716&whichpage=2#109074

 

 

think you have completely misunderstood what I am saying Kami. Far from criticizing Adyashati, I have actually been praising him over and over again. I have praised not only him as a teacher and his teachings, but also the innovative way he has developed zen practice to include an understanding of the energetic aspects of awakening.

 

What I have been discussing with Chas are minor aspects of the path and possible refinements to spiritual practice and teaching that could be made. It is not a question of one way verses another way or spiritual fundamentalism. As I mentioned before, Adya and I are both trained in the Buddhist tradition and our practices have been almost identical over the years.

 

There was a time when Adya used to give shaktipat. He put a few people in hospital and so he stopped giving shaktipat. Why? Out of love and compassion.

 

So you see, love and compassion, arising from unity, can lead people to refine their technique and approach to spiritual teaching. Adya has done that and I think every good teacher does that.

 

Could Adya have known that they would not have ended up in hospital anyway? Obviously not. Could he have known that it was not the absolutely perfect place for them to be at that time? Obviously not. But he stopped giving shaktipat. So love can be a driving force for change.

 

 

As interesting as this story is, I also had it confirmed by someone who had spent three years with Steve Grey. And, yes, if Adya was in fact enlightened or at least had achieved some of the mudane siddhis, he should have known what the effects of shaktipat would have been, especially on his dope-smoking buddies (drugs and kundalini don't mix well).

 

Even the 'great' Yogani doesn't have much nice to say about Adya (perhaps Yogani is just being an arrogant snot, like he usually is to people who don't agree with him or his scientifically created methods.. ). [sarcasm..]

 

http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12716#108614

 

Yogani wrote:

 

 

Hi Kami:

 

Thanks much for the feedback on your Adya weekend. Wonderfully affirming.

 

No, Adya and I are not the same person.

Though, like all of us, we share the same abiding inner silence, so there is kinship.

 

I have been one of those critical of his approach in the past, simply because of the non-relational self-inquiry aspect, which is not as problematic in his approach as in the some of the more hardcore non-duality teachings. The more I learn about Adya, the less hardcore non-duality he seems. Maybe I just did not fully perceive the practical side of his teachings when looking into them years ago. Or maybe he has been gradually moving more toward the center on practices and experiences. Either way, it is win-win for those who happen to be looking at both Adya and AYP.

 

All the best!

 

The guru is in you.

 

 

I think this probably sums up Adyshanti's behaviour, or at least it sounds like a great excuse for his blunders:

 

http://blog.gaiam.com/quotes/authors/adyashanti?page=1

 

 

 

My speaking is meant to shake you awake, not to tell you how to dream better.

Adyashanti

 

 

 

He sure woke me up. And I'm so glad he did. I ended up finding much better writings and practices by sincere practitioners and enlightened masters, such as Tenzin Wangyal, Tenzin Namdak, Urgyen Rinpoche, Longchen Rabjam, Alan Wallace, Ajahn Brahm..

 

Edited April 18, 2014 by Tibetan_Ice

[GrandmasterP]

It's good to find signposts along any road.

 

:-)

 

 

[Jeff]

Sorry for the distraction. Removed.

Edited April 21, 2015 by Jeff

[Spotless]

having a new name can definitely help in stabilizing in ones new awareness - in part by helping to notify those closest - it changes the energy and so it is a common and effective tool for setting the energy anew as one throughly abides in enlightening.

 

People constantly see others in past time.

 

Lineage is of no importance unless you are working within a set of words specific to that lineage and speaking from that "language".

Even then, in the West we need our emerging stories in new words without quotes from translations of past teachers.

 

The translations from the ancient masters are often very misleading and we are in a new paradigm and refreshing paradigms.

The world is in a shift - a wonderful shift - awakening is poring through the holes. Quality effective teaching is coming in all forms and some of the most simple and implausible teachers are waking students up right and left.

 

We will always have our conservatives - and those who are in love with quoting - and we will have those nut cases that find us new ways thought impossible because they went past the sure path.

 

Today we have many awakening who have no idea what has happened - even some of those steeped in "the teachings" - this is how really bad the translation are.

 

I urge everyone to listen to as many of the batgap.com videos and podcasts of people that have awakened as possible. Several things will at once emerge: 1. What you resist. 2. What is consistent initially in awakening. 3. What it is like in Western Words. 4. What different forms it takes. 5. What wonderful variety we have.

 

When listening look for information regarding an awakening experience in the first few minutes - if this is not mentioned then it can be "a person of interest" but not one of the interviews I would recommend - stick with the Awakened interviews and stories they share. I listened to many with my earbuds and the lights out in bed or driving in the car.

 

Also, don't miss the two by Harri Alto