zhan zhuang with no real teacher

[vivekji108]

I started doing zz by the stand still be fit videos and the book, the way of energy.

 

I did read however on several places in this forum not to practice zz without a live teacher because of wrong posture etc. I've read stories as well of people that kind of have wasted a lot of time standing because of incorrect posture and the qi wasn't flowing properly.

 

At the same time a lot of people say that it's OK to practice from book a day videos as long as you follow the instructions properly.

 

What are your thoughts on this?

[thelerner]

I think its fine. With 2 caveats. One don't over do it, take it slow. Working up to 15, 20 or 30 minutes is great and should take some time. While you're building up, see if there are any Tai Chi, chi gung even yoga or martial art people who have experience and can give you pointers to how you stand.

 

2nd, Some people are very energy sensitive. They'll get more sensations, heat and movement faster and harder then an average beginner. The good news is they can go far and fast with an experienced teacher. The bad new is they are way more likely to suffer bad effects from working without regular instruction.

 

Most people don't fall into this category and if you do and there's no teacher around you can imo still practice but keep it short, do lots of grounding (long walks, exercise, seated emptiness meditation). Don't push hard until you've got good instruction and feedback.

[Aetherous]

Sometimes check your alignments in front of a mirror.

It's not like zhan zhuang is rocket science, so you're good!

[Gerard]

 

What are your thoughts on this?

 

You need to move, actually using your arms (10%), legs (60%) and waist (30%). ZZ is very limiting in how far you can go. Throw in

(this is the one I do quite often but you may go a lot slower than that if you like, as slow as you prefer; also no need to turn around if you don't want to, choose a place like a park's footpath, rainforest path, etc. and follow its entire length or a set distance) to improve ZZ practice. Posture will be automatically corrected once you start purifying your mind. Edited April 19, 2014 by Gerard

[ChiDragon]

Use your judgement to sort out the facts from your own experience.

[soaring crane]

I agree with the others - you can practice standing on your own. I don't know the book you mention but I assume there's more information in it than one sentence telling you to stand up and wait 20 minutes before sitting down again. Posture IS extremely important, but it shouldn't be forced. In that sense, a teacher, depending on the teacher, can actually be a problem. It's not that simple.

 

Your mental posture is more important. Your image of yourself should be perfect. And the body will slowly adapt to this perfection.

 

I also agree with Gerard that moving is essential. Maybe this is brought up in the book? Before you start your session, spend a good 5-10 minutes warming up by using vigorous self-massage techniques and some bouncing/swinging.

 

And, I suggest doing the same thing after your session (but many people like to remain calm and serene).

 

And develop a serious closing ritual. I can suggest a couple things to try if you like.

 

How do you like the book, btw? Can you write a little summary? I'm going to be bringing ZZ into a group starting in May and I'm on the lookout for little nuggets of wisdom :-)

[soaring crane]

John Blue has some very nice info and demos of ZZ at youtube:

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/ChenStyleJohn

Edited April 19, 2014 by soaring crane

[Bubbles]

Hi soaring crane,

 

You may get some good informations in the following book. It gives some nice ways to present zhan zhuang to beginners. I have it in english but I see it has been translated into German.

 

http://www.thedynamicsofstandingstill.com/index.html

 

Best,

[soaring crane]

Hi bubbles (great name, luv it!) and thanks :-)

 

I find it very useful to formulate and express things in ways that others can understand and integrate. But it's so difficult to do in a way that clicks with *everyone* in a group, so it's good for me to see how others go about it.

 

And this is doubly true for something like ZZ. So, I'll get the book (in German).

[GreytoWhite]

I heartily disagree that you will ever get to standing properly on your own. Without "loading" a posture from a teacher who can show you what skills you are trying to achieve "just stand" is nigh on useless. Zhan zhuang is not just standing and imagining - you are supposed to be doing VERY specific things in each posture that need to be corrected and tested. In my opinion DVDs and books are only good if you have had instruction in the past from a qualified instructor or have an instructor who has recommended certain materials.

[vivekji108]

Greytowhite,

 

Thank you.

 

I love the conflicting advice

[Andrei]

[Bubbles]

Greytowhite, Thank you. I love the conflicting advice

 

Hi vivekji108,

 

This is not necessarily a conflicting advice. It depends on what you are looking for.

I began zhan zhuang without a live teacher, following Lam Kam Chuen's books. After a year, I was feeling good, lot of energy although I was not sleeping a lot, no more colds, no flu etc..

But under a teacher, it is a totally different experience, I mean, it turns out to be real work.

If you can't have a teacher, try with the book. As Lam Kam Chuen is advising himself, if you are feeling worse, stop your practice.

 

Best,

[Aetherous]

Without "loading" a posture from a teacher who can show you what skills you are trying to achieve "just stand" is nigh on useless.

 

Genuinely interested...what is loading a posture? What other skills does a person develop by doing zhan zhuang (aside from building qi and developing somewhat of a rooted stance which can be applied to martial arts)?

[cheya]

Anybody read The Dynamics of Standing Still, which Bubbles recommends above?

 

It looks great, but it sure is pricey...

[Bubbles]

Hi Cheya,

 

When I bought and read it for the first time, I was disappointed. I found it wordy, with too much pictures and not diving a lot into technical details. So I mumbled a few things and put it on a shelf. A few months later, I took it up again, and began to read it with an open mind and gave the book a chance.

 

I realized progressively that what I took for a wordy text, useless pictures and very basic exercises were skillful means to allow me to understand and sense the body posture into zhan zhuang . And it does that in a very tactful way. When you compare with other books about zhan zhuang, they either say next to nothing about that, either fill you with a hazy speech about the energetic secrets of zhan zhuang ( cough, cough) but never talk about the physical aspect of zhan zhuang.

 

In my view, the major benefit of the book is to prevent people from practicing zhan zhuang in a exterior, mechanical way, helping them bulding a practice based onto an understanding of the body structure, on how this structure can be felt up to a point. And this is a major challenge for beginners.

 

Of course it can't really replace a teacher, but for a book, it does quite a good job, imho.

The author is a disciple of Lam Kam Chuen and also practices mindfulness within Thich Nhat Hanh's lineage.

 

I don't know if you browsed a lot the website, but you can leaf through the book here. It may help you see what I mean, and you may also be disappointed at first sight by what you will see.

 

This is just my subjective viewpoint so take it for what it is.

 

Hope at least that it helps you understand why I recommended the book.

 

Best,

 

edited for spelling and to add '(cough, cough)' and 'Best'

Edited April 20, 2014 by bubbles

[cheya]

Thanks, Bubbles!

 

I especially like that you say he was teaching how to feel the structure.

I had gone through the website pretty thoroughly, but going back I did find an excellent review I'd missed.

 

You mentioned the author is a disciple of Lam Kam Chuen and also practices mindfulness within Thich Nhat Hanh's lineage.

That's great in itself, but he's also an acupuncturist, and not just an acupuncturist, but one who uses the Toyohari style, more big pluses in my tally up!

 

I'll have to see if I can leaf through the text on someone else's computer. Mine isn't up to it, and I do need to do that before I buy it. Thank you for telling me so more about the subtleties of the book.

[soaring crane]

Hi soaring crane,

 

You may get some good informations in the following book. It gives some nice ways to present zhan zhuang to beginners. I have it in english but I see it has been translated into German.

 

http://www.thedynamicsofstandingstill.com/index.html

 

Best,

 

Hi again - I just ordered the German-language book (meaning, I filled out the order form and got an email autoreply telling me that I'll be informed about methods of payment shortly haha).

 

Thanks again for the tip

 

edit - forgot to mention that I looked at amazon.de and there's a copy for sale for €118!

Edited April 21, 2014 by soaring crane

[Bubbles]

I'll have to see if I can leaf through the text on someone else's computer. Mine isn't up to it, and I do need to do that before I buy it. Thank you for telling me so more about the subtleties of the book.

 

Hi Cheya,

 

You may need to install Adobe Flash Player on your computer to be able to leaf through the book.

 

Hope you will be able to see it, and keep us updated !

[Bubbles]

Hi again - I just ordered the German-language book (meaning, I filled out the order form and got an email autoreply telling me that I'll be informed about methods of payment shortly haha).

 

Thanks again for the tip

 

edit - forgot to mention that I looked at amazon.de and there's a copy for sale for €118!

 

Hi soaring crane,

 

Good! I went through the same procedure when I ordered it back in 2010 when the book was first released. Time flies!

 

€118... I noticed there are often weird prices on amazon. Hope people are not gullible enough to buy a € 37 book at that price..

 

Please give feedback about the book once you'll get it, I am curious.

 

Take care

[joeblast]

If you dont have a teacher for this, best at least invest in a full length mirror. Sung every time your mind moves, and treat it as every bit as much a breathing exercise.