How the Buddha became enlightened with the jhanas

[Tibetan_Ice]

[Gerard]

I highly doubt it. One of the many pitfalls of the Theravada Tradition: they quickly become entangled with jhanas and can't go past that stage. One must be extremely careful here. I heard of that monk and his 'emphasis' about jhanas. There is a lot more to it when it comes to 'enlightenment.'

Edited August 30, 2014 by Gerard

[MooNiNite]

I highly doubt it. One of the many pitfalls of the Theravada Tradition: they quickly become entangled with jhanas and can't go past that stage. One must be extremely careful here. I heard of that monk and his 'obsession' about jhanas. There is a lot more to it when it comes to 'enlightenment.'

 

interesting,

 

how do you believe one goes past this stage?

Edited August 30, 2014 by MooNiNite

[BaguaKicksAss]

I highly doubt it. One of the many pitfalls of the Theravada Tradition: they quickly become entangled with jhanas and can't go past that stage. One must be extremely careful here. I heard of that monk and his 'obsession' about jhanas. There is a lot more to it when it comes to 'enlightenment.'

 

What is wrong with the jhanas, and what are they in the context of getting becoming problematic? (newbie terms would be awesome if you are up for it ).

[Gerard]

By practising and letting them go, they will come and go like anything else in life. This mental attitude/approach will lead to nirvana.

 

Have you heard of the term: jhana junkie? I don't like it because it is disrespectful but it is a phenomenon many practitioners experience and some never go past it!

 

BKA, nothing wrong with them but they are not the end goal.

 

Have you heard of sudden enlightenment? There is no jhanas involved or whatsoever! I mean it is not a mental state that is followed by attaining the highest jhana, like an immediate sequence of events.

 

Nirvana, returning to the source or the Tao or any other name you prefer, is the state of arriving at the origin after journeying Samsara for countless lifetimes; this is an event that is beyond the control of the meditator because it doesn't happen here in the physical plane (don't ask me more better find out for yourself or will negatively condition your practice)....even though it looks they are in control. The waves of tranquility (equanimity is a mental factor that the meditator should have already attained prior to the stage of becoming an stream-enterer) will take you there as consciousness has already been purified enough (no more rocks, river bends and whirlpools hammering your consciousness) and is ready to merge with the Source.

 

Kind of like this:

 

[Tibetan_Ice]

By practising and letting them go, they will come and go like anything else in life. This mental attitude/approach will lead to nirvana.

 

Have you heard of the term: jhana junkie? I don't like it because it is disrespectful but it is a phenomenon many practitioners experience and some never go past it!

 

BKA, nothing wrong with them but they are not the end goal.

 

Have you heard of sudden enlightenment? There is no jhanas involved or whatsoever! I mean it is not a mental state that is followed by attaining the highest jhana, like an immediate sequence of events.

 

Nirvana, returning to the source or the Tao or any other name you prefer, is the state of arriving at the origin after journeying Samsara for countless lifetimes; this is an event that is beyond the control of the meditator because it doesn't happen here in the physical plane (don't ask me more better find out for yourself or will negatively condition your practice)....even though it looks they are in control. The waves of tranquility (equanimity is a mental factor that the meditator should have already attained prior to the stage of becoming an stream-enterer) will take you there as consciousness has already been purified enough (no more rocks, river bends and whirlpools hammering your consciousness) and is ready to merge with the Source.

 

Kind of like this:

 

 

Gerard,

Are you sure you aren't a Taoist pushing your instant enlightenment (simultaneous) rarity? There is nothing wrong with the gradual path, especially if it worked for Buddha.

 

We had discussed this before and you presented some Taoist references, and I fail to see what Taoism has to do with Buddhism. http://thetaobums.com/topic/34603-how-the-buddha-became-enlightened/?p=549412

 

Further, your idea of the need for purification seems to be based on your experiments with the central channel, which is a form of tantra. Where exactly did Buddha teach tantra? And, are there not tantra junkies too? More so than jhana junkies?

 

Please read this. http://dharmafarer.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/5.18-Anuruddha-Upakkilesa-S-m128-piya.pdf

 

And as far as becoming a jhana junkie, as Shaila Catherine said, eventually the mind grows tired of the coarse pleasure and seeks to refine its stability, thus it abandons the coarse pleasure. As one progresses through the jhanas into the formless jhanas, one is attaining the needed powers and purification. Equanimity is only the fourth jhana, there are formless jhanas which follow and there is not much difference between the highest jhanas and the epitome of Buddhism, which is Dzogchen or what the Buddha really taught.

 

But then, I guess you'd have to be enlightened before you could definitely say what practices will make you enlightened.

If you are not, then you have accepted a seal and have become a prisoner. Buddha said not to turn anything into seals.

Edited August 30, 2014 by Tibetan_Ice

[Seeker of Wisdom]

...Have you heard of sudden enlightenment? There is no jhanas involved or whatsoever!...

Good luck with that. Maybe you're one of the one-in-a-billion people able to undo all the obscurations in a sudden, apparently spontaneous release.

 

Most people, though, need to heat the water over time with the three trainings (one of which is samadhi) to get to that instant of suddenly boiling.

 

There's a reason both sudden and gradual teachings have been taught - so that people can follow the one matching their capacity. Telling people who need the gradual way to avoid jhanas because they might get distracted from the rest of the path is like telling someone to get to the penthouse without going through the lobby.

[BaguaKicksAss]

By practising and letting them go, they will come and go like anything else in life. This mental attitude/approach will lead to nirvana.

 

Very fortunately early on when I started meditating I was taught that all the neato experiences that come up during practice are yet just another distraction.... all those amazing insights, the funky energy stuff and etc. Just another distraction like those darn mosquito (I swear they were sent here to distract us meditators). Or perhaps I guess it depends from which source you derive your teachings whether this is fortunate or not. The source where I read this is most definitely not highly regarded (Ram Das; hey I was 19 at the time OK lolol)

 

Have you heard of the term: jhana junkie? I don't like it because it is disrespectful but it is a phenomenon many practitioners experience and some never go past it!

 

Not with that phrasing no... though there are people who meditate to get the "high", and we call them energy junkies; especially in group meditations... I found it interesting that during buddhist meditations (all the ones I have been to so far), they emphasize that one remain aware and not "bliss out". Also ones keeps the eyes partially open to avoid going to far out. Interesting. Also completely opposite to the meditation methods where one completely loses themself into a really deep altered state for shamanic journeying or such.

 

BKA, nothing wrong with them but they are not the end goal.

 

So you are saying more awareness and less chasing after the states/funky stuff. This reminds me of when I started Bagua and odd stuff started happening. Everyone told me to just ignore all that. But damn, it was all so interesting!

 

Have you heard of sudden enlightenment? There is no jhanas involved or whatsoever! I mean it is not a mental state that is followed by attaining the highest jhana, like an immediate sequence of events.

 

The sutras seem to talk about that, random joe average millworker who has never practiced a day in his life suddenly becomes enlightened! Or folks who do practice, but suddenly. But, but, I enjoy the journey . Some folks say that the magic I practice is only a distraction too... but then I ask, is this a race? Though I fully get the whole don't get to side tracked by stuff bit. Even in the distractions of magic itself, there are further distractions which can make one wander very much off the path, or any path!

 

Nirvana, returning to the source or the Tao or any other name you prefer, is the state of arriving at the origin after journeying Samsara for countless lifetimes; this is an event that is beyond the control of the meditator because it doesn't happen here in the physical plane (don't ask me more better find out for yourself or will negatively condition your practice)....even though it looks they are in control. The waves of tranquility (equanimity is a mental factor that the meditator should have already attained prior to the stage of becoming an stream-enterer) will take you there as consciousness has already been purified enough (no more rocks, river bends and whirlpools hammering your consciousness) and is ready to merge with the Source.

 

Kind of like this:

 

 

Your image didn't work... in your post, but I see it shows up just fine here in my quote! Well I have to say, I most definitely didn't come into this lifetime (for long at least lol) in tranquility and equanimity . I have met some who seem to have, but then life seems to get them . It sounds like all the meditation doesn't help much... or that perhaps it is irrelevant. So I would guess there is either more we need to do than just meditate and/or just meditate and not worry about it so much, we will get there eventually, in some lifetime or another.

Edited August 30, 2014 by BaguaKicksAss

[BaguaKicksAss]

Gerard,

Are you sure you aren't a Taoist pushing your instant enlightenment (simultaneous) rarity? There is nothing with the gradual path, especially if it worked for Buddha.

 

We had discussed this before and you presented some Taoist references, and I fail to see what Taoism has to do with Buddhism. http://thetaobums.com/topic/34603-how-the-buddha-became-enlightened/?p=549412

 

Further, your idea of the need for purification seems to be based on your experiments with the central channel, which is a form of tantra. Where exactly did Buddha teach tantra? And, are there not tantra junkies too? More so than jhana junkies?

 

Please read this. http://dharmafarer.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/5.18-Anuruddha-Upakkilesa-S-m128-piya.pdf

 

And as far as becoming a jhana junkie, as Shaila Catherine said, eventually the mind grows tired of the coarse pleasure and seeks to refine its stability, thus it abandons the coarse pleasure. As one progresses through the jhanas into the formless jhanas, one is attaining the needed powers and purification. Equanimity is only the fourth jhana, there are formless jhanas which follow and there is not much difference between the highest jhanas and the epitome of Buddhism, which is Dzogchen or what the Buddha really taught.

 

But then, I guess you'd have to be enlightened before you could definitely say what practices will make you enlightened.

If you are not, then you have accepted a seal and have become a prisoner. Buddha said not to turn anything into seals.

 

I'm curious what are the benefits of noticing the jhanas? Of focusing on them? Is it something along the lines of oh you are having a. and b. happen,which means you have likely managed to get to some specific attainment? (I'll admit I'm borrowing from some Taoists on this one lol).

 

Where/when did tantra come in and why do you think, if Buddha didn't teach it? I get the impression this isn't a simple cut and dry just go check wiki sort of thing...

[Seeker of Wisdom]

I'm curious what are the benefits of noticing the jhanas? Of focusing on them? Is it something along the lines of oh you are having a. and b. happen,which means you have likely managed to get to some specific attainment? (I'll admit I'm borrowing from some Taoists on this one lol).

The jhanas happen from having developed 'access concentration', enough samadhi from shamatha to pacify the five hindrances (restlessness, laxity, sense craving, malice, doubt) to a high level. So that means other practices like vipashyana, cultivating bodhichitta, and tantra, will be much more effective.

 

The jhanas in themselves aren't the point, but if someone with access concentration sits in jhana a bit to sharpen their tools before doing something else, they will get the full benefit of the practice because it will go much deeper. Without access concentration, the level of bodhichitta and wisdom that can be achieved is limited by the mind not being healthy and pliant enough.

 

Where/when did tantra come in and why do you think, if Buddha didn't teach it? I get the impression this isn't a simple cut and dry just go check wiki sort of thing...

My view is if Shakyamuni had tried to cram Therevada, Mahayana and Vajrayana into a few decades of teaching in a time before everything could be neatly written and sent to a printing press, in the long run there would have been more confusion and less strongly established paths. Better to get a solid Therevada tradition laid to last for a long time, knowing that other things could grow from there from others taking the baton, eventually making a range of options for different kinds of people.

[Tibetan_Ice]

 

I'm curious what are the benefits of noticing the jhanas? Of focusing on them? Is it something along the lines of oh you are having a. and b. happen,which means you have likely managed to get to some specific attainment? (I'll admit I'm borrowing from some Taoists on this one lol).

 

Where/when did tantra come in and why do you think, if Buddha didn't teach it? I get the impression this isn't a simple cut and dry just go check wiki sort of thing...

Hi BKA,

The benefits of the four lower jhanas are in this document:

 

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.119.than.html

 

 

I have heard that on one occasion the Blessed One was staying in Savatthi at Jeta's Grove, Anathapindika's monastery. Now at that time a large number of monks, after the meal, on returning from their alms round, had gathered at the meeting hall when this discussion arose: "Isn't it amazing, friends! Isn't it astounding! the extent to which mindfulness immersed in the body, when developed & pursued, is said by the Blessed One who knows, who sees the worthy one, rightly self-awakened to be of great fruit & great benefit." And this discussion came to no conclusion.

 

Then the Blessed One, emerging from his seclusion in the late afternoon, went to the meeting hall and, on arrival, sat down on a seat made ready. As he was sitting there, he addressed the monks: "For what topic are you gathered together here? And what was the discussion that came to no conclusion?"

 

"Just now, lord, after the meal, on returning from our alms round, we gathered at the meeting hall when this discussion arose: 'Isn't it amazing, friends! Isn't it astounding! the extent to which mindfulness immersed in the body, when developed & pursued, is said by the Blessed One who knows, who sees the worthy one, rightly self-awakened to be of great fruit & great benefit.' This was the discussion that had come to no conclusion when the Blessed One arrived."

 

[The Blessed One said:] "And how is mindfulness immersed in the body developed, how is it pursued, so as to be of great fruit & great benefit?

 

"There is the case where a monk having gone to the wilderness, to the shade of a tree, or to an empty building sits down folding his legs crosswise, holding his body erect and setting mindfulness to the fore. Always mindful, he breathes in; mindful he breathes out.

 

"Breathing in long, he discerns, 'I am breathing in long'; or breathing out long, he discerns, 'I am breathing out long.' Or breathing in short, he discerns, 'I am breathing in short'; or breathing out short, he discerns, 'I am breathing out short.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe in sensitive to the entire body.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out sensitive to the entire body.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe in calming bodily fabrication.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out calming bodily fabrication.' And as he remains thus heedful, ardent, & resolute, any memories & resolves related to the household life are abandoned, and with their abandoning his mind gathers & settles inwardly, grows unified & centered. This is how a monk develops mindfulness immersed in the body.

 

"Furthermore, when walking, the monk discerns, 'I am walking.' When standing, he discerns, 'I am standing.' When sitting, he discerns, 'I am sitting.' When lying down, he discerns, 'I am lying down.' Or however his body is disposed, that is how he discerns it. And as he remains thus heedful, ardent, & resolute, any memories & resolves related to the household life are abandoned, and with their abandoning his mind gathers & settles inwardly, grows unified & centered. This is how a monk develops mindfulness immersed in the body.

 

"Furthermore, when going forward & returning, he makes himself fully alert; when looking toward & looking away... when bending & extending his limbs... when carrying his outer cloak, his upper robe & his bowl... when eating, drinking, chewing, & savoring... when urinating & defecating... when walking, standing, sitting, falling asleep, waking up, talking, & remaining silent, he makes himself fully alert. And as he remains thus heedful, ardent, & resolute, any memories & resolves related to the household life are abandoned, and with their abandoning his mind gathers & settles inwardly, grows unified & centered. This is how a monk develops mindfulness immersed in the body.

 

"Furthermore, the monk reflects on this very body from the soles of the feet on up, from the crown of the head on down, surrounded by skin and full of various kinds of unclean things: 'In this body there are head hairs, body hairs, nails, teeth, skin, flesh, tendons, bones, bone marrow, kidneys, heart, liver, pleura, spleen, lungs, large intestines, small intestines, gorge, feces, bile, phlegm, pus, blood, sweat, fat, tears, skin-oil, saliva, mucus, fluid in the joints, urine.' Just as if a sack with openings at both ends were full of various kinds of grain wheat, rice, mung beans, kidney beans, sesame seeds, husked rice and a man with good eyesight, pouring it out, were to reflect, 'This is wheat. This is rice. These are mung beans. These are kidney beans. These are sesame seeds. This is husked rice'; in the same way, the monk reflects on this very body from the soles of the feet on up, from the crown of the head on down, surrounded by skin and full of various kinds of unclean things: 'In this body there are head hairs, body hairs, nails, teeth, skin, flesh, tendons, bones, bone marrow, kidneys, heart, liver, pleura, spleen, lungs, large intestines, small intestines, gorge, feces, bile, phlegm, pus, blood, sweat, fat, tears, skin-oil, saliva, mucus, fluid in the joints, urine.' And as he remains thus heedful, ardent, & resolute, any memories & resolves related to the household life are abandoned, and with their abandoning his mind gathers & settles inwardly, grows unified & centered. This is how a monk develops mindfulness immersed in the body.

 

"Furthermore, the monk contemplates this very body however it stands, however it is disposed in terms of properties: 'In this body there is the earth property, the liquid property, the fire property, & the wind property.' Just as a skilled butcher or his apprentice, having killed a cow, would sit at a crossroads cutting it up into pieces, the monk contemplates this very body however it stands, however it is disposed in terms of properties: 'In this body there is the earth property, the liquid property, the fire property, & the wind property.' And as he remains thus heedful, ardent, & resolute, any memories & resolves related to the household life are abandoned, and with their abandoning his mind gathers & settles inwardly, grows unified & centered. This is how a monk develops mindfulness immersed in the body.

 

"Furthermore, as if he were to see a corpse cast away in a charnel ground one day, two days, three days dead bloated, livid, & festering, he applies it to this very body, 'This body, too: Such is its nature, such is its future, such its unavoidable fate'...

 

"Or again, as if he were to see a corpse cast away in a charnel ground, picked at by crows, vultures, & hawks, by dogs, hyenas, & various other creatures... a skeleton smeared with flesh & blood, connected with tendons... a fleshless skeleton smeared with blood, connected with tendons... a skeleton without flesh or blood, connected with tendons... bones detached from their tendons, scattered in all directions here a hand bone, there a foot bone, here a shin bone, there a thigh bone, here a hip bone, there a back bone, here a rib, there a breast bone, here a shoulder bone, there a neck bone, here a jaw bone, there a tooth, here a skull... the bones whitened, somewhat like the color of shells... piled up, more than a year old... decomposed into a powder: He applies it to this very body, 'This body, too: Such is its nature, such is its future, such its unavoidable fate.'

 

"And as he remains thus heedful, ardent, & resolute, any memories & resolves related to the household life are abandoned, and with their abandoning his mind gathers & settles inwardly, grows unified & centered. This is how a monk develops mindfulness immersed in the body.

 

The Four Jhanas

"Furthermore, quite withdrawn from sensuality, withdrawn from unskillful mental qualities, he enters & remains in the first jhana: rapture & pleasure born from withdrawal, accompanied by directed thought & evaluation. He permeates & pervades, suffuses & fills this very body with the rapture & pleasure born from withdrawal. Just as if a skilled bathman or bathman's apprentice would pour bath powder into a brass basin and knead it together, sprinkling it again & again with water, so that his ball of bath powder saturated, moisture-laden, permeated within & without would nevertheless not drip; even so, the monk permeates... this very body with the rapture & pleasure born of withdrawal. There is nothing of his entire body unpervaded by rapture & pleasure born from withdrawal. And as he remains thus heedful, ardent, & resolute, any memories & resolves related to the household life are abandoned, and with their abandoning his mind gathers & settles inwardly, grows unified & centered. This is how a monk develops mindfulness immersed in the body.

 

"And furthermore, with the stilling of directed thoughts & evaluations, he enters & remains in the second jhana: rapture & pleasure born of composure, unification of awareness free from directed thought & evaluation internal assurance. He permeates & pervades, suffuses & fills this very body with the rapture & pleasure born of composure. Just like a lake with spring-water welling up from within, having no inflow from the east, west, north, or south, and with the skies supplying abundant showers time & again, so that the cool fount of water welling up from within the lake would permeate & pervade, suffuse & fill it with cool waters, there being no part of the lake unpervaded by the cool waters; even so, the monk permeates... this very body with the rapture & pleasure born of composure. There is nothing of his entire body unpervaded by rapture & pleasure born of composure. And as he remains thus heedful, ardent, & resolute, any memories & resolves related to the household life are abandoned, and with their abandoning his mind gathers & settles inwardly, grows unified & centered. This is how a monk develops mindfulness immersed in the body.

 

"And furthermore, with the fading of rapture, he remains equanimous, mindful, & alert, and senses pleasure with the body. He enters & remains in the third jhana, of which the Noble Ones declare, 'Equanimous & mindful, he has a pleasant abiding.' He permeates & pervades, suffuses & fills this very body with the pleasure divested of rapture. Just as in a lotus pond, some of the lotuses, born & growing in the water, stay immersed in the water and flourish without standing up out of the water, so that they are permeated & pervaded, suffused & filled with cool water from their roots to their tips, and nothing of those lotuses would be unpervaded with cool water; even so, the monk permeates... this very body with the pleasure divested of rapture. There is nothing of his entire body unpervaded with pleasure divested of rapture. And as he remains thus heedful, ardent, & resolute, any memories & resolves related to the household life are abandoned, and with their abandoning his mind gathers & settles inwardly, grows unified & centered. This is how a monk develops mindfulness immersed in the body.

 

"And furthermore, with the abandoning of pleasure & pain as with the earlier disappearance of elation & distress he enters & remains in the fourth jhana: purity of equanimity & mindfulness, neither-pleasure-nor-pain. He sits, permeating the body with a pure, bright awareness. Just as if a man were sitting covered from head to foot with a white cloth so that there would be no part of his body to which the white cloth did not extend; even so, the monk sits, permeating the body with a pure, bright awareness. There is nothing of his entire body unpervaded by pure, bright awareness. And as he remains thus heedful, ardent, & resolute, any memories & resolves related to the household life are abandoned, and with their abandoning his mind gathers & settles inwardly, grows unified & centered. This is how a monk develops mindfulness immersed in the body.

 

Fullness of Mind

"Monks, whoever develops & pursues mindfulness immersed in the body encompasses whatever skillful qualities are on the side of clear knowing. Just as whoever pervades the great ocean with his awareness encompasses whatever rivulets flow down into the ocean, in the same way, whoever develops & pursues mindfulness immersed in the body encompasses whatever skillful qualities are on the side of clear knowing.

 

"In whomever mindfulness immersed in the body is not developed, not pursued, Mara gains entry, Mara gains a foothold.

 

"Suppose that a man were to throw a heavy stone ball into a pile of wet clay. What do you think, monks would the heavy stone ball gain entry into the pile of wet clay?"

 

"Yes, lord."

 

"In the same way, in whomever mindfulness immersed in the body is not developed, not pursued, Mara gains entry, Mara gains a foothold.

 

"Now, suppose that there were a dry, sapless piece of timber, and a man were to come along with an upper fire-stick, thinking, 'I'll light a fire. I'll produce heat.' What do you think would he be able to light a fire and produce heat by rubbing the upper fire-stick in the dry, sapless piece of timber?"

 

"Yes, lord."

 

"In the same way, in whomever mindfulness immersed in the body is not developed, not pursued, Mara gains entry, Mara gains a foothold.

 

"Now, suppose that there were an empty, hollow water-pot set on a stand, and a man were to come along carrying a load of water. What do you think would he get a place to put his water?"

 

"Yes, lord."

 

"In the same way, in whomever mindfulness immersed in the body is not developed, not pursued, Mara gains entry, Mara gains a foothold.

 

"Now, in whomever mindfulness immersed in the body is developed, is pursued, Mara gains no entry, Mara gains no foothold. Suppose that a man were to throw a ball of string against a door panel made entirely of heartwood. What do you think would that light ball of string gain entry into that door panel made entirely of heartwood?"

 

"No, lord."

 

"In the same way, in whomever mindfulness immersed in the body is developed, is pursued, Mara gains no entry, Mara gains no foothold.

 

"Now, suppose that there were a wet, sappy piece of timber, and a man were to come along with an upper fire-stick, thinking, 'I'll light a fire. I'll produce heat.' What do you think would he be able to light a fire and produce heat by rubbing the upper fire-stick in the wet, sappy piece of timber?"

 

"No, lord."

 

"In the same way, in whomever mindfulness immersed in the body is developed, is pursued, Mara gains no entry, Mara gains no foothold.

 

"Now, suppose that there were a water-pot set on a stand, full of water up to the brim so that crows could drink out of it, and a man were to come along carrying a load of water. What do you think would he get a place to put his water?"

 

"No, lord."

 

"In the same way, in whomever mindfulness immersed in the body is developed, is pursued, Mara gains no entry, Mara gains no foothold.

 

An Opening to the Higher Knowledges

"When anyone has developed & pursued mindfulness immersed in the body, then whichever of the six higher knowledges he turns his mind to know & realize, he can witness them for himself whenever there is an opening.

 

"Suppose that there were a water jar, set on a stand, brimful of water so that a crow could drink from it. If a strong man were to tip it in any way at all, would water spill out?"

 

"Yes, lord."

 

"In the same way, when anyone has developed & pursued mindfulness immersed in the body, then whichever of the six higher knowledges he turns his mind to know & realize, he can witness them for himself whenever there is an opening.

 

"Suppose there were a rectangular water tank set on level ground, bounded by dikes brimful of water so that a crow could drink from it. If a strong man were to loosen the dikes anywhere at all, would water spill out?"

 

"Yes, lord."

 

"In the same way, when anyone has developed & pursued mindfulness immersed in the body, then whichever of the six higher knowledges he turns his mind to know & realize, he can witness them for himself whenever there is an opening.

 

"Suppose there were a chariot on level ground at four crossroads, harnessed to thoroughbreds, waiting with whips lying ready, so that a skilled driver, a trainer of tamable horses, might mount and taking the reins with his left hand and the whip with his right drive out & back, to whatever place & by whichever road he liked; in the same way, when anyone has developed & pursued mindfulness immersed in the body, then whichever of the six higher knowledges he turns his mind to know & realize, he can witness them for himself whenever there is an opening.

 

(Ten Benefits)

"Monks, for one in whom mindfulness immersed in the body is cultivated, developed, pursued, handed the reins and taken as a basis, given a grounding, steadied, consolidated, & well-undertaken, ten benefits can be expected. Which ten?

 

[1] "He conquers displeasure & delight, and displeasure does not conquer him. He remains victorious over any displeasure that has arisen.

 

[2] "He conquers fear & dread, and fear & dread do not conquer him. He remains victorious over any fear & dread that have arisen.

 

[3] "He is resistant to cold, heat, hunger, thirst, the touch of gadflies & mosquitoes, wind & sun & creeping things; to abusive, hurtful language; he is the sort that can endure bodily feelings that, when they arise, are painful, sharp, stabbing, fierce, distasteful, disagreeable, deadly.

 

[4] "He can attain at will, without trouble or difficulty, the four jhanas heightened mental states providing a pleasant abiding in the here & now.

 

[5] "He wields manifold supranormal powers. Having been one he becomes many; having been many he becomes one. He appears. He vanishes. He goes unimpeded through walls, ramparts, & mountains as if through space. He dives in & out of the earth as if it were water. He walks on water without sinking as if it were dry land. Sitting crosslegged he flies through the air like a winged bird. With his hand he touches & strokes even the sun & moon, so mighty & powerful. He exercises influence with his body even as far as the Brahma worlds.

 

[6] "He hears by means of the divine ear-element, purified & surpassing the human both kinds of sounds: divine & human, whether near or far.

 

[7] "He knows the awareness of other beings, other individuals, having encompassed it with his own awareness. He discerns a mind with passion as a mind with passion, and a mind without passion as a mind without passion. He discerns a mind with aversion as a mind with aversion, and a mind without aversion as a mind without aversion. He discerns a mind with delusion as a mind with delusion, and a mind without delusion as a mind without delusion. He discerns a restricted mind as a restricted mind, and a scattered mind as a scattered mind. He discerns an enlarged mind as an enlarged mind, and an unenlarged mind as an unenlarged mind. He discerns an excelled mind [1] as an excelled mind, and an unexcelled mind as an unexcelled mind. He discerns a concentrated mind as a concentrated mind, and an unconcentrated mind as an unconcentrated mind. He discerns a released mind as a released mind, and an unreleased mind as an unreleased mind.

 

[8] "He recollects his manifold past lives (lit: previous homes), i.e., one birth, two births, three births, four, five, ten, twenty, thirty, forty, fifty, one hundred, one thousand, one hundred thousand, many aeons of cosmic contraction, many aeons of cosmic expansion, many aeons of cosmic contraction & expansion, [recollecting], 'There I had such a name, belonged to such a clan, had such an appearance. Such was my food, such my experience of pleasure & pain, such the end of my life. Passing away from that state, I re-arose there. There too I had such a name, belonged to such a clan, had such an appearance. Such was my food, such my experience of pleasure & pain, such the end of my life. Passing away from that state, I re-arose here.' Thus he remembers his manifold past lives in their modes & details.

 

[9] "He sees by means of the divine eye, purified & surpassing the human beings passing away & re-appearing, and he discerns how they are inferior & superior, beautiful & ugly, fortunate & unfortunate in accordance with their kamma: 'These beings who were endowed with bad conduct of body, speech, & mind, who reviled the noble ones, held wrong views and undertook actions under the influence of wrong views with the break-up of the body, after death, have re-appeared in the plane of deprivation, the bad destination, the lower realms, in hell. But these beings who were endowed with good conduct of body, speech, & mind, who did not revile the noble ones, who held right views and undertook actions under the influence of right views with the break-up of the body, after death, have re-appeared in the good destinations, in the heavenly world.' Thus by means of the divine eye, purified & surpassing the human he sees beings passing away & re-appearing, and he discerns how they are inferior & superior, beautiful & ugly, fortunate & unfortunate in accordance with their kamma.

 

[10] "Through the ending of the mental effluents, he remains in the effluent-free awareness-release & discernment-release, having known and made them manifest for himself right in the here & now.

 

"Monks, for one in whom mindfulness immersed in the body is cultivated, developed, pursued, handed the reins and taken as a basis, given a grounding, steadied, consolidated, & well-undertaken, these ten benefits can be expected."

 

That is what the Blessed One said. Gratified, the monks delighted in the Blessed One's words.

 

 

If you examine them closely you will find that they are the same effects that Buddha claimed to have realized under the Bodhi tree, when he attained enlightenment.

 

I think he put in [3] just for you and your Mosquitos LOL

Edited August 30, 2014 by Tibetan_Ice

[Tibetan_Ice]

Also, BKA, as to whether or not the Buddha taught tantra, there is an examination of this topic at this link:

 

http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/archives/e-books/unpublished_manuscripts/making_sense_tantra/pt1/making_sense_tantra_02.html

[Seeker of Wisdom]

...If you examine them closely you will find that they are the same effects that Buddha claimed to have realized under the Bodhi tree, when he attained enlightenment...

I think that text refers to more than just shamatha's benefits, as samadhi alone couldn't lead to point 10, ending - rather than just pacifying - mental effluents. The part specifically about the benefits of the four jhanas is those four paragraphs.

 

The practices described seem to be body contemplations for vipashyana and mindfulness of breathing for shamatha, so the 10 benefits listed are coming from the union of shamatha and vipashyana, not just shamatha. So the 10 benefits are benefits of enlightenment, because enlightenment is gained with the union of shamatha and vipashyana. I think it's significant that mindfulness of breathing comes first in the list of practices.

 

It's also interesting that point 7 is basically the 'contemplation of mind' practice from the satipatthana sutta, but here listed as a passive result of body contemplation rather than an active practice.

[MooNiNite]

I think that text refers to more than just shamatha's benefits, as samadhi alone couldn't lead to point 10, ending - rather than just pacifying - mental effluents. The part specifically about the benefits of the four jhanas is those four paragraphs.

 

The practices described seem to be body contemplations for vipashyana and mindfulness of breathing for shamatha, so the 10 benefits listed are coming from the union of shamatha and vipashyana, not just shamatha. So the 10 benefits are benefits of enlightenment, because enlightenment is gained with the union of shamatha and vipashyana. I think it's significant that mindfulness of breathing comes first in the list of practices.

 

HI Seeker,

Can you describe the body contemplation vipashyana technique? I always thought vipassana was just observing the breath.

 

maybe your talking about the:

"contemplation of impermanence of phenomenon"

Edited August 30, 2014 by MooNiNite

[Wells]

.

Edited October 28, 2014 by ZOOM

[MooNiNite]

he went double rainbow

[子泰]

Did the Buddha go rainbow?

over the rainbow

[Seeker of Wisdom]

...Can you describe the body contemplation vipashyana technique? I always thought vipassana was just observing the breath...

Sure.

 

Vipashyana is essentially about looking at experience to recognise features like impermanence, etc. The aspects of experience commonly looked at can be grouped into four frames of reference (satipatthana): body, feelings, mind and something called'dhammas'. So if you are observing your breath to notice impermanence and such, that is a vipashyana technique of body contemplation (if you're simply concentrating on the breath without investigating its nature, that's shamatha).

 

Another body contemplation technique is contemplation of anatomy, you go through your body noting all the bones, organs, etc, to realise that no part of the body is 'you' or 'yours', and apply that to the bodies of others to realise that their bodies aren't really attractive or repulsive, but just material objects like any other. Similarly you can break the body into elements by labeling tangible stuff 'earth', fluids 'water', body heat 'fire' and the air you're breathing 'air'.

 

The charnal ground body contemplations involve visualising a/your own corpse in various states of decay to face up to your own mortality, really recognise impermanence.

 

Contemplation of physical position and actions are meant to make you aware of the constant movement you're doing to show subtle impermanence and how the body isn't 'yours' because you can't absolutely control it.

 

There's a lot of detail on all this stuff in Ven Analayo's book.

[BaguaKicksAss]

Hi BKA,

The benefits of the four lower jhanas are in this document:

 

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.119.than.html

 

If you examine them closely you will find that they are the same effects that Buddha claimed to have realized under the Bodhi tree, when he attained enlightenment.

 

I think he put in [3] just for you and your Mosquitos LOL

 

He's kinda long winded! I enjoyed it though.

 

So how are these different from Siddhis?

 

What is the point and purpose of them in particular? (I mean aside from saving money on natural insect repellent of course).

[BaguaKicksAss]

Is it wrong of me to be reminded of skittles ads right now?

[Tibetan_Ice]

 

He's kinda long winded! I enjoyed it though.

 

So how are these different from Siddhis?

 

What is the point and purpose of them in particular? (I mean aside from saving money on natural insect repellent of course).

I believe that those are siddhis. I've heard that there are 1008 siddhis.

 

Probably Buddha would say that their purpose is to help other sentient beings along the path to the end of suffering. (Relatively speaking)

[Gerard]

Well I have to say, I most definitely didn't come into this lifetime (for long at least lol) in tranquility and equanimity . I have met some who seem to have, but then life seems to get them . It sounds like all the meditation doesn't help much... or that perhaps it is irrelevant. So I would guess there is either more we need to do than just meditate and/or just meditate and not worry about it so much, we will get there eventually, in some lifetime or another.

 

Very few have come to life with equanimity. You need to work hard to win this award.

 

Your Bagua work will take you to the source if you do it diligently. Bagua involves a lot of meditative work whether you realise or not.

 

It will work and unveil the three treasures: heaven (yang), man (center) and earth (yin).

 

Seated meditation alone will take you nowhere, not in this current day and age.

 

Seated meditation is Yin, Yang follows the way of Heaven and Heaven follows the Tao/the Source/Nirvana. Heaven requires vigorous movement (Bagua is an excellent example) for its realisation.

 

I recommend you a bit of seated meditation every day to supplement your Bagua practice, to settle down what you gained.

Edited August 31, 2014 by Gerard

[Gerard]

Gerard,

Are you sure you aren't a Taoist pushing your instant enlightenment (simultaneous) rarity? There is nothing wrong with the gradual path, especially if it worked for Buddha.

 

Further, your idea of the need for purification seems to be based on your experiments with the central channel, which is a form of tantra. Where exactly did Buddha teach tantra? And, are there not tantra junkies too? More so than jhana junkies?

 

But then, I guess you'd have to be enlightened before you could definitely say what practices will make you enlightened.

If you are not, then you have accepted a seal and have become a prisoner. Buddha said not to turn anything into seals.

 

Hi,

 

I never said the gradual path is wrong. This is the one I follow as well.

 

When I said "purification" I meant the opening of the conditioned mind/removing all the defiliments by working on all the blockages in the conditioned mind (includes refining and removing all the stains from the 5 elements via internal organs and their associated Qi...which ultimately is mind but the mind itself needs a vehicle in order to be expressed otherwise we wouldn't be here at all but travelling directly to nirvana without the need of replicating in any realm).

 

Btw, Buddha's method is not the only one that delivers enligthenment. Baguazhang does it as long as you supplement it with quiet work and direct all the energy internally instead of focusing on the martial aspect which will divert part of that energy to fuel the ego/illusion of needing to fight.

Edited August 31, 2014 by Gerard

[Tibetan_Ice]

 

Hi,

 

I never said the gradual path is wrong. This is the one I follow as well.

 

When I said "purification" I meant the opening of the conditioned mind/removing all the defiliments by working on all the blockages in the conditioned mind (includes refining and removing all the stains from the 5 elements via internal organs and their associated Qi...which ultimately is mind but the mind itself needs a vehicle in order to be expressed otherwise we wouldn't be here at all but travelling directly to nirvana without the need of replicating in any realm).

 

Btw, Buddha's method is not the only one that delivers enligthenment. Baguazhang does it as long as you supplement it with quiet work and direct all the energy internally instead of focusing on the martial aspect which will divert part of that energy to fuel the ego/illusion of needing to fight.

You know, this is a Buddhist sub forum. Buddhists don't purify their organs, nor do they manipulate their chi. Buddhism teaches that nirvana and samsara are the same, both empty. The highest teaching in Buddhism does not direct energy internally or otherwise, for that is a creation of the mind hence subject to impermanence. Buddhism teaches non-grasping, emptiness, boddhicitta and NO MARKS. No labels, nothing to grasp and solidify...

 

Perhaps you could find a Taoist forum to post your dogma on?

[MooNiNite]

Seated meditation alone will take you nowhere, not in this current day and age.

 

i guess i'm one of the few who think meditation can get someone to enlightenment