Marblehead Posted April 23, 2014 Just monkeying around. My 2 cents, Peace Ha! I do that a lot myself, you know. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted April 23, 2014 This is actually a grieving process. It´s easy to talk about surrender, but actually doing it... Talk about conversation killer I don't even talk about surrender. Well, except to claim that surrender is not an option. (Sometimes waiting for a better opportunity may appear as surrender but we should not confuse the two.) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted April 23, 2014 ... ps I'm an open book. ... But the chapters are all mixed up. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apech Posted April 23, 2014 I don't even talk about surrender. Well, except to claim that surrender is not an option. (Sometimes waiting for a better opportunity may appear as surrender but we should not confuse the two.) Why surrender ... are we surrounded? 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted April 23, 2014 Why surrender ... are we surrounded? Yes, Why? I am surrounded by Nature but it requires no surrender, only respect. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apech Posted April 23, 2014 Yes, Why? I am surrounded by Nature but it requires no surrender, only respect. I'll surrender when the FBI shout 'kick the gun away and get down on the floor!' 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yuen Biao Posted April 23, 2014 Does a question always need an answer? 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted April 23, 2014 I'll surrender when the FBI shout 'kick the gun away and get down on the floor!' I have used something similar to that from a military stand. If I am out of ammunition and I have my enemy's weapons pointed at me there would then be few options. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted April 23, 2014 Does a question always need an answer? Valid question. (I must remain silent.) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GrandmasterP Posted April 23, 2014 (edited) I march beneath the white flag. Ya want any top quality surrendering work ever doing then I'm your (married) man. :-) Edited April 23, 2014 by GrandmasterP 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yascra Posted April 23, 2014 I don't even talk about surrender. Well, except to claim that surrender is not an option. (Sometimes waiting for a better opportunity may appear as surrender but we should not confuse the two.) Well, and if cure is not an option, choosing the way to leave might be the way not to surrender, to some degree. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GrandmasterP Posted April 23, 2014 Yay. Partay! Way to brighten up an afternoon man! :-) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hagar Posted April 23, 2014 Surrender is stepping backwards, as the old Zen proverb says, but you have to say something... What nobody told me when I started this process is that what you end up with after all this doing is nothing. h 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GrandmasterP Posted April 23, 2014 (edited) Swedish Bartender: I shall enquire. Is there a Mr. Myfriendsaregay, first name Olaf? Attention everyone, "Olaf Myfriendsaregay!" [bar denizens laugh] Swedish Bartender: Wait a minute, if I ever get a hold of you, I will thank you for showing me the futility of human endeavor! [bart and Milhouse laugh] Edited April 23, 2014 by GrandmasterP 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GrandmasterP Posted April 23, 2014 (edited) Surrender is stepping backwards, as the old Zen proverb says, but you have to say something... What nobody told me when I started this process is that what you end up with after all this doing is nothing. h "To understand the principle of totally surrendering to practice, you should thoroughly investigate mind and heart. In the steadfastness of thorough investigation, all phenomena are the unadorned clarity of mind." (Dogen: Gyobutsu Igi). Edited April 23, 2014 by GrandmasterP 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apech Posted April 23, 2014 "To understand the principle of totally surrendering to practice, you should thoroughly investigate mind and heart. In the steadfastness of thorough investigation, all phenomena are the unadorned clarity of mind." (Dogen: Gyobutsu Igi). Ok I give up, I'm never going to be able to surrender. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GrandmasterP Posted April 23, 2014 (edited) Resistance is futile. For you pussy cat ze var iz ovver. Edited April 23, 2014 by GrandmasterP 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NotVoid Posted April 23, 2014 (edited) Isn´t it all about storytelling? I would say it is mainly about fantasy. Someone asks a somewhat serious seeming question or requests input on a certain topic. Even if they get one or two somewhat reasonable appearing responses, much of the thread may well be filled with fantasy and imagination and role playing, or very questionable or obviously harmful advice. Then, more often than not it would seem, the person posing a question or requesting feedback on a topic will focus in on the more fantasy oriented responses, or focus in on the responses which contain about the worst and most whacky or harmful advice imaginable. and maybe even comment on how wise those responses seem to them. Welcome to fantasy island. Were the Monty Python troupe actually stark realists? Where does imagination end and reality begin? Edited April 23, 2014 by NotVoid 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GrandmasterP Posted April 23, 2014 (edited) Q: Where does imagination end and reality begin? A: A fish. Hope that helps. :-) Edited April 23, 2014 by GrandmasterP 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted April 23, 2014 Well, and if cure is not an option, choosing the way to leave might be the way not to surrender, to some degree. Yeah, that's a tricky one for a Taoist. We are not supposed to interfer with the nature of things. But then, nature also gave us free will and with free will there are always choices even if it is the choice to do nothing. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted April 23, 2014 Surrender is stepping backwards, as the old Zen proverb says, but you have to say something... What nobody told me when I started this process is that what you end up with after all this doing is nothing. h Yep. Stepping back is sometimes the best thing to do. And true, Sometimes best best choice is to do nothing. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted April 23, 2014 "To understand the principle of totally surrendering to practice, you should thoroughly investigate mind and heart. In the steadfastness of thorough investigation, all phenomena are the unadorned clarity of mind." (Dogen: Gyobutsu Igi). IMO that was an inappropriate usage of the word "surrendering". "Devoting" would have been better. (That would be not surrendering to alternatives.) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted April 23, 2014 Resistance is futile. Doesn't matter the futility of it all. Some trees live for 5 thousand years or more. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GrandmasterP Posted April 23, 2014 IMO that was an inappropriate usage of the word "surrendering". "Devoting" would have been better. (That would be not surrendering to alternatives.) Could be. I reckon he's implying that diligent cultivating just gets the job done. Maybe 'devoting' carries 'devotional' baggage that 'surrendering' doesn't Whatever he did say it would have been in old Japanese anyway. For all we know Dogen could have been ordering pizza toppings there. :-) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted April 23, 2014 Yeah, I have no problem with what he said and I understood well the concept. And valid point about the baggage with the word "devoting". 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
