Chi Gong + Weight Training

[dogson]

Hi all,

 

Curious if anyone has experience doing intensive weight training / bodybuilding and chi gong at the same time. I'm specifically struggling with shoulder / rotator cuff tightness. When I practice standing postures, I can stay away from the gym for weeks and come back lifting heavier. But when I'm lifting regularly, standing becomes excruciating. The tightness of those ligaments being opened energetically from the inside is really, really rough.

 

Anyone have experience doing both? Any tricks or tips that might make opening up quicker a possibility? Doing massage and various bodywork often, but it's tough to really find a balance.

 

I'm also curious about general energetic potentials in bodybuilding. As I've posted elsewhere, I'm a more "yin" male, so bodybuilding really spikes my testosterone and makes me way more assertive and present. I want the practice for my whole life, I just want to figure out a way to have symbiosis so it doesn't feel like it's directly inhibiting my chi gong practice.

 

 

[Andrei]

I did both in my life but not at the same time. When you do bodybuilding, the main issue is to get rid of the lactic acid produced during work. the best way to do that is massage or just rest/sleep and drink water or anything diuretic like tea or cofee or watermelon to allow the toxins to be eliminated through urine. Also I found out that the goji berries soaked and drinked in green tea are the best antioxidants you can ever have which facilitates lactic acid elimination.

 

Anyway when I was weight training and taichi in the same time, the taichi performance was much better, or at least this is how I was feeling at the time. I suppose the taichi was alleviating all the muscle sores I was having after weight training. But at that time I never did any standing practices. On the other hand, after I quit weight training I felt the need to practice standing practices, which I found that is the standard "bodybuilding" practice for taichi. In a sense the standing practice is doing the same acid lactic build up just it is doing only in particular muscles, which are essential in push hands and taichi fighting. So it happens that the cuff rotator is exactly one of those muscles used in standing qigong, and also it happens that you may overtrain this muscle, it builds up the acid lactic beyond the pain bearable level. So either you quit one or the other, or you just do weight training only for those muscles you don't train in standing qigong like pulling movements upwards and pushing downwards. During standing my painful muscles are trapezius muscles more than cuff rotator. It may happen also that you need to adjust a bit the back position so that you transfer the tension from one group of muscles to another. In standing they say you have to have the front yin (relaxed) and the back yang (tensioned) but I have seen standing practises like 5 elements of Maoshan that disobey this rule, so in standing anything goes as long as you feel good about your practice.

Edited April 22, 2014 by Andrei

[Bearded Dragon]

I don't do weights but I've found that I am physically stronger after doing internal stuff for a while now. When I apply a rigid force for someone to practice their kung fu I find that my energy naturally wants to beef up to compensate. I'm often buzzing with energy after a session like this.

 

Then of course when I do it the proper way I don't get that so much since it requires very little energy to do most things properly.

 

I think that if you set up your body in such a way that the internal stuff becomes a natural process then you'll get it to turn on while doing weights. Although, as you mentioned, you still have to work on your alignments separately so that you don't hurt yourself.

[ChiDragon]

Well, Chi Kung is internal and weight lifting is external. It is better for you to practice the internal before the external separately. Btw, lactic acid build up is when you have consumed all the oxygen in your body. In your case, the build up was from weight lifting. In order to resume your lactate level back to normal, you must rest and your breathing has to return to normal.

As a rule of thumb, Chi Kung generates more energy than it was consumed by your body; and weight lifting consumes more energy than it was generated. That is why you have the lactic acid build up.

If you have anymore questions, please don't hesitate to ask them. Thanks.

Edited April 23, 2014 by ChiDragon

[voidisyinyang]

I've been doing qigong and bench pressing.

 

I find bench pressing to be an excellent tool to convert or sublimate lower emotional blockages - especially anger - back into yin chi energy or "yang jing." so lower emotions are "yin jing." I recommend studying "Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality" to understand this.

 

As for lactic acid build up - my previous research discovered that actually citric acid via the Krebs Cycle neutralizes lactic acid. http://www.naturodoc.com/library/lifestyle/umeboshi_vinegar.htm So just increase your intake of citrus fruit - organic preferably. I happen to work for an organic fruit delivery company so I can get seconds.

 

So yeah someone noted I was starting to get that slouch from overworking my front deltoids. So I started doing prone barbell raises to work my back deltoids. But that's the only other lift I do while otherwise just focusing on benchpress. I'm still only at 200 pounds but I started at 135 - so it's been a steady increase. I might take a break if I am working other muscles more doing endurance work outside - cutting firewood with a bow saw or numerous other labor activities. I work in a warehouse so I work my lats and then benchpressing feels good to reverse the lactic acid of the lats and back muscles.

 

So anyway I experimented with 3 hours of qigong - I did a half hour standing active "moving of yin and yang" and then an hour of small universe/mco in full lotus. So then I had built up energy and so even though I had no food that day I went for a set of five reps of 200 benchpress. Then I did another hour of small universe/mco in full lotus. Then I finished with a 1/2 hour standing active "harmony of heaven and earth" and 7 steps of new life.

 

So Yan Xin talks about how he shot some weightlifter full of qi and the dude was able to life way more weight, way more times, etc. It's on my blog for the pdf link to search the book.

 

But a qigong master remarked to me about the weight lifting that I was working to store up my internal energy - I already started a thread on that if people want to search it. No big deal.

 

Also cayenne activates your vagus nerve and the internal heat and vagus nerve activation relaxes the muscles.

 

Essentially if someone gets mad at me - that is "extra" emotional energy and instead of getting mad back at them I just go over to the barbells and benchpress. So it converts that extra lower emotional energy - sublimates it up the back as the blissful pump energy up the spine into the brain. I notice the pineal gland then is more activated.

 

So also if someone "perv attacks" me I have found the benchpress to be probably the most effective means to most quickly resublimate my energy back into yang jing aka yin chi energy. Again any lower emotional blockage like that - fear, worry, anger, sadness, etc.

 

Of course just writing about the lower emotional blockages reinforces them so just focus on the positive love energy as healing compassion and sit in full lotus as much as possible and if possible focus the pineal gland by internal japa or mantra in the mind - Ohm Mani Padme Hum.

 

People say the tongue is the strongest muscle or the diaphgram but yeah benchpress relies on the diaphgram and the tongue shud be kept against the roof of the mouth at all times if possible.

 

 

 

 

[dogson]

This is an awesome post, thanks for that.

 

I don't actually get sore much at all, which can be frustrating - I feel like I'm at a plateau where it's almost impossible to crush weights hard enough to grow, or be sore, the next day. What I'm talking about is just muscle *tightness* that ends up really hurting when I'm doing post standing. It's to the extent that I can't really clear 20 minutes of standing holding the ball because it's so tight.

 

It's frustrating to feel like it's either one or the other, as heavy weightlifting really balances my yin / yang but chi gong is my true passion and obviously cultivating on a much deeper level.

[voidisyinyang]

oh yeah this is my blog now http://innersoundqigong.blogspot.com/2013/11/blog-post.html - that is the post I have been pushing on my twitter. Basically I compiled all the qigong master telekinesis videos I could find online - so over a dozen different qigong masters all in one place showing their stuff. It takes a bit to load but enjoy and then the blog has links to my previous books, rants, etc. and the qigong books I have links for, etc.

 

I was PMd about an update. All I can say is I did complete a "book" for a qigong master for his memoir. Some may recall my previous posts about this but the book is now on hold until I do more intensive training and also the qigong master does more intensive training on his own. The book requires final approval by the head Chinese qigong master. Also I am not referring to these people by name anymore online just to respect their privacy. But yeah I spent a year hanging with the qigong master and it was awesome and the book is very cool but someone else hopefully is reworking it for their publishing connection.

[tendou]

Wonder what the book is and when it will be going out.

[Yuen Biao]

I have started weight-training more over the last years, mostly varying sizes of kettlebells.

 

My best advise is to stretch out more before and after practise; the tendons themselves are much more important than any specific muscle and stronger too.

 

The sinew stretching exercises of some Qigong schools are highly recommended.

[joeblast]

I'm specifically struggling with shoulder / rotator cuff tightness.

I first came across good stuff for rotator cuffs from sifu larry wong

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ChiDragon]

Here is my additional story....
Chi Kung or Tai Ji is to work the muscle tone from the inside out; and weight lifting is outside in.

I practiced Tai Ji(internal) for many years to build up my Jin(勁). My brother in-in-law did weight lifting(external). Then we'd decided to have a match in arm wresting. During the match, I was regulating my breath and Jin with calmness while he was trying very hard in exerting his arm strength and was exhausted. Later, he told me his arm was sore for two weeks.

[Aetherous]

Hi all,

 

Curious if anyone has experience doing intensive weight training / bodybuilding and chi gong at the same time. I'm specifically struggling with shoulder / rotator cuff tightness. When I practice standing postures, I can stay away from the gym for weeks and come back lifting heavier. But when I'm lifting regularly, standing becomes excruciating. The tightness of those ligaments being opened energetically from the inside is really, really rough.

 

Anyone have experience doing both? Any tricks or tips that might make opening up quicker a possibility? Doing massage and various bodywork often, but it's tough to really find a balance.

 

I'm also curious about general energetic potentials in bodybuilding. As I've posted elsewhere, I'm a more "yin" male, so bodybuilding really spikes my testosterone and makes me way more assertive and present. I want the practice for my whole life, I just want to figure out a way to have symbiosis so it doesn't feel like it's directly inhibiting my chi gong practice.

 

Rotator cuff issues can be taken care of with physical therapy. There are ideas on youtube...basically you do very light resistance exercises through all ranges of motion for the shoulders and arm. This is like an internal massage for the muscles, and it resets them...rather than massage which is really just rubbing the skin and doing nothing. You should probably see a professional, because maybe it's not the rotator cuff exactly. I don't think standing practice or really any qigong will ever take care of those issues. If it's flaring them up it probably means you're standing with tension and a weird posture...maybe that means you have a leg length difference or misaligned pelvis, and that's throwing your spine and upper body kind of out of alignment. If that's the case, then it could be the case that standing isn't the best idea. If you want to fix that, find someone (probably a PT) who knows muscle energy technique...it's very easy to get the hips and leg lengths back into alignment.

 

There is absolutely no problem with lifting weights, even heavy weights, and doing qigong at the same time. It's actually really good. The only issue I would ever see arising is that in becoming more assertive, the emotions can be very slightly more turbulent...that's all. The ideas of internal versus external are absolutely false.

 

I didn't really get lactic acid buildup at all when lifting. I did stuff like squats, deadlifts, etc, in a progression rather than ever doing more than I could handle...those exercises are better than doing high rep bicep curls for instance which will absolutely cause sore muscles. Stretching after lifting is a great idea...if you don't have range of motion in your movements, you'll end up hurting yourself (I've been sidelined for 6 months now unfortunately, due to having tight hips and ignoring knee pains during squatting...thankfully no ligaments were torn...gotta stretch!).

[JohnC]

Weight training and qi gong are just training different aspects of your mind and body, and they are a total compliment.

 

In weight training, the only thing I would stress is alignment... so you don't hurt yourself. Beyond that any training is beneficial for you. There are ways that target your whole body and create integral strength and there are ways that build muscle in different areas. How you life though is largely determined by your intent.

 

Don't sweat lactic acid build up, as your body will naturally process it out as long as you stay hydrated. If it becomes to much of an issue, take an L-citrulline or eat some watermelon. The acidic buildup is not a problem.

 

Just eat healthy, stretch, and practice.

 

If you do have old injuries, seeing someone to help out with those is huuugely beneficial, and qi gong will support that as well. Preferably someone trained in energy healing, and someone trained in physical rehab/healing.

 

John

[mike 134]

I don't do chi gong but you need to warm up your shoulders. Try these warm up exercises

 

 

Also I always do a light warmup set before my real sets. So for shoulders I'll do some lateral raises with 5-10 lb dumbbells and like 40-50 lbs shoulder presses.

 

Also how many times a week do you lift ? I only lift twice a week. Usually chest/shoulders/triceps on Mondays and biceps/back on Thursdays. Not only is there more recovery time but you avoid inadvertently training the same body part on consecutive days. I constantly see people do stuff like this:

 

Monday- chest

Tuesday- shoulders

Wednesday-triceps/biceps

Thursday-back

Friday-legs.

 

And I shake my head because guess what, even when you are "only" training your shoulders on Wednesday, you are still using your shoulders (quite heavily might I add) on the other upper body days. So basically you have zero recovery time until the weekend. Don't do this if this is you.

[mike 134]

Oh and of course do everything with good form and make sure you eat.

[skydog]

Are you looking for strength or size or testosterone.

Edited April 23, 2014 by skydog

[skydog]

.

Edited April 23, 2014 by skydog

[skydog]

Or even there may be thoughts/beliefs you want to shed light to about why you want to be bigger, stronger, that you think you feel scared etc.

[skydog]

.

Edited April 24, 2014 by skydog

[Andrei]

 

Why is that

 

Women

[bax44]

For me lifting has always been a great feeling of accomplishment and pursuing getting stronger. I never worked out to "get girls" or anything although it definitely helps:) being an athlete all my life it was always quite necessary too and I think it fits in perfectly w cultivation/ meditation. To me it's two sides of the same coin and lead to quite a lot of growth If done intensely but not obsessively.

[skydog]

hide

Edited April 24, 2014 by skydog

[skydog]

Edited April 24, 2014 by skydog

[dogson]

I think the social norms / "conditioning" of being big, strong and powerful as a man really does have truth to it. I suppose in America, where we like everything huge and powerful, it's taken over the top. When I talk about bodybuilding, I'm not talking about building an Arnold or Flex Wheeler type of physique. But I do want to cultivate my full genetic potential, as regards being both physically strong as well as energetically.

 

Rudolf Steiner used to say that when you try hard physically, your etheric forces also become strengthened, and I feel this VISCERALLY when I work out. Just walking into a room changes the energy field, and challenges and stresses of day to day life become simple, even a pleasure, whereas just doing relaxing or gentle exercises might make me healthier, but not more effective.

 

Men really are designed to build things, and go out and achieve, and hit targets and wrestle and kill and fuck things into submission. That's how masculine energy is wired. If anything, I believe social norms are emasculating this aggression out of us, only to have that biological need sublimated into products, like cars. I just think it's crucial to maintain a balance. If I didn't know about chi gong and meditation and I worked out the way I do, I would go psycho for sure. Arnold freely admits he got into fights every single day back in his competition years... it's one thing to have a lot of energy, quite another to master it and use it skillfully.

Edited April 25, 2014 by dogson

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

When one has intense strength, no fear can overwhelm you. The story of heroes teaches men that they don't have to succumb to fear but rather they can overcome it. It is crucial for young men and children who are growing up and start to face the intensity of the world.

 

Some very wize wordz in dis tread.

 

xxx

...

Edited April 26, 2014 by Captain Mar-Vell