Can we practice/meditate/do significant energy work while working on other things?

[dogson]

Boing Boing. This is a great post.

 

From the holographic perspective, everything you're doing, including reading TTB posts in this exact moment, that reality was manifested from a deep part of your own soul. There is nothing except meditation from this perspective. It is God evolving God.

 

From the energy perspective, you are using your physical body in a world, always interacting with energy fields. There will be times your energy field is the most powerful - you doing the dishes, for example. Your energy is stronger than the plate (unless it's been sitting there for a month and you're too grossed out to touch it!) - so your energy field dominates and "changes reality" to your will. Other times, like driving around downtown in a major city at rush hour, the energy field may totally overwhelm you, so you go into survival mode and use all your resources just to survive it. But ultimately you're still cultivating. Exposing yourself to that is changing you, see the holographic level. When I lived in Brooklyn I would drive into manhattan, one hand on the wheel, one hand holding a mudra. And I would see how long I could hold perfect composure, no matter how many people cut me off, or how much noise, or frantic chaotic energy came at me, until I could do a whole day of errands driving around the city and come home in the same meditative state I left my apartment with.

 

Ultimately the scale or the content of what you're doing is irrelevant, you have consciousness that is constant all the time. It's only identifying that and learning to access it more and more of the time. And the more you do that, the more refined the content becomes, assuming you can identify your deeply held beliefs about why you choose to do something, why you continue to do it, and so forth.

[KenBrace]

I come from a Japanese arts background, and if your making art and you're not working with chi, then your doing it wrong. In a sport like soccer it might be hard, its distractive atmosphere, but for many things its possible. You can meditative and cultivate chi while doing them. Calligraphy, music are famous examples of arts conducive towards cultivation.

 

Again I think you have a very tight definition of what meditation and cultivation is. So tight, there may only be a single 'true' type and all others must be told loudly and often they're delusional. The problem there is you never get exposed to a whole world of other styles of cultivation and its easy to become lobsided.

 

There's a whole mind/body coordination, wisdom arts, awareness arts that you may be glossing over and disdaining because they're not directly energy manipulating and condensing.

 

You work with chi 24/7 in the sense that your very spirit is made of chi but you can't directly feel & control it unless you are in profoundly deep meditation. You can control chi in a normal waking state but it's so little that it's not even funny. Art has nothing to do with chi development. Chi is developed via deep meditation and extreme focus.

[Brian]

^^^

 

That would ring true in first-person, perhaps...

[Cat Pillar]

It has not been my experience that cultivation is limited to deep meditation/trance. I would agree that the most efficient cultivation occurs in deep meditation, and that there's no replacement for dedicated sitting...but I have managed to bring dantien to a solid burn while at work.

[silent thunder]

If you can't encounter it in all, you can't encounter it at all...

[Spotless]

I tend to love this kind of discussion - it is splitting hair in many ways but certainly clarifying important practice definitions.

 

The language we have is very difficult and inadequate for what we are talking about so much of the time.

It is one of the reasons I tend to "side" on the "meditation is meditation when you are meditating" and not cooking or working because it feels like yet another term is becoming thinned out to near meaninglessness.

 

When I hear of maintaining an aware state while cooking, not thinking and being very present, I like a number of wordings that I find very good and easily understood - and they do not invoke argument and angst from anyone. Walking mindfulness - I like that but Walking Meditation - a part of me asks why elicit conflict and confusion?

 

Frequently I listen to some talk in a podcast or on YouTube and for no reason the word "god" is used and you can feel half the audience leave their bodies when they hear that word. (I am certainly not saying the use of the word god is in any way something to run from)

 

I know of many relatively wise monks coming from other countries and they feel it is necessary to dumb down practice for westerners.

One has his students teaching that we should not meditate for more than 10 minutes at a time. (Specifically the Western students whereas in his own land of Tailand 8 hour meditations in his tradition and teaching are not exceptional at all)

 

It is pretty obvious that those that want to use the term "meditation" with regard to cooking and walking and general living activities are using a different definition of meditation which is why this conversation is taking place.

I don't think you have to be a purist to find this an unnecessary erosion of a term that has heretofore been relatively unscathed in its common use and clarity.

 

Mindfulness is a much looser but very effective term and I think it works for almost everything mentioned above outside of the traditional usage of the word "meditation".

 

Mindfulness

Everyday activities in a mindfulness space

It is awareness in ones action and speech - it is not "meditation" but is bringing "present time awareness practice" into our daily waking state to the extent we are able to do it.

I find it very clear with little or no confusion from a multitude of traditions.

When you hear it, it seems to define itself.

 

On the other hand the use of the idea of "meditating while cooking" reminds me of students saying things like "I meditate all the time" (this is fantasy unless you want to put the word "meditate" in a blender and accept what comes out)

 

I do not think anyone in this discussion disagrees with the very clear wish to have awareness practice brought into all aspect of our life and not "reserve it to a lotus pose".

But bringing the word "meditation" to include practically anything we do with mindfulness does in my opinion dilute yet another term that at least at the present time is a word that most practices across the board at this time understand (with the only confusion typically around the interpretation of the meaning of "trance" which for some in the minority is for them practically synonomous with "meditation").

 

By the way, I have no particular investment in the use of the term "mindfulness" and in fact it is somewhat new to me - it just seems to feel very good for exactly what we are discussing.

Another term could be offered and I would be completely open to that. I simply offered it here as what I think is an example that does seems to serve the purpose without diluting itself in the process.

 

I like the word practice as well.

 

Such as:

 

I like to practice while I cook

 

If someone here said that, I would completely get the gist of the meaning/use and then I might ask "what sort of practice do you find effective while cooking"

If you replace the word practice in the above scenario with "meditation" it is simply confusing or odd and requires a sort of explanation of the use of the word and then the idea behind your use of it.

 

In any case - bringing awareness to our everyday activities is a great way to have the day.

Edited May 14, 2014 by Spotless

[Brian]

As a rule, I don't use the word "meditation" at all.

[Spotless]

As a rule, I don't use the word "meditation" at all.

 

Could you expand on that?

 

[Brian]

Could you expand on that?

The term, to me, feels too active and in conversation often has a hippy-dippy connotation or association akin to "visualize whirled peas."

 

This is not, in my mind, reflective of what I do or espouse.

 

I don't claim to offer an accurate or appropriate alternative, mind you.

 

I sometimes use expressions like "shifted" or "still" or "expanded," for example, while discussing my practice.

 

I have been practicing carrying that chi state with me between periods of formal "practice" and have made baby-steps in this area.

[BaguaKicksAss]

You work with chi 24/7 in the sense that your very spirit is made of chi but you can't directly feel & control it unless you are in profoundly deep meditation. You can control chi in a normal waking state but it's so little that it's not even funny. Art has nothing to do with chi development. Chi is developed via deep meditation and extreme focus.

 

You obviously are not an artist.

[BaguaKicksAss]

I try for a meditative state 24x7. I fail miserably lol. It is still a goal though. In otherwords, I remind myself all the time to go back into meditation.

 

For the cooking example, if one can cook while plastered drunk, or having taken an extremely large does of some hallucinogen (though you sort of have to work up to this lol), then why not while meditating? It just takes practice . (I used that as an example to compare a state which gets rid of a lot of the conscious mind). Though meditating while walking down the street can lead to you ending up in the wrong place, but like I said, practice .

 

I use my psychic abilities all day everyday, and I am one who prefers to turn it off and on; I don't like to be wide open around other people tyvm. So I just go into a meditative altered state everytime I wish to make use of it. Shopping for the most vibrant veggies or whatever.

 

I was told once to get rid of all the psychic and magic stuff while practicing Bagua. So I tried it, and it was extremely difficult, and it felt very unnatural to me. That is when I realized how it has become a natural part of my life. Closing it all down for a an hour or 2 for practice was plain odd! Well that and I would naturally amp things up via trying to go into meditation, when doing such a practice.

 

I have been taught by a few teachers that there is no reason to keep things seperate (unless you really do have to spend a lot of time in the mundane world, such as at a corporate job). Far from recommended for everyone, but it works quite well for me. I have to get into an altered state for my job, it is sort of a job requirement lol. Same goes for my hobbies, and when I teach folks.

 

When I started martial arts, I was shown how to incorporate stances, posture and basic training into my day to day life. I quite liked that approach and do think things should be integrated, to attain further mastery.

 

Now the trance like altered state that Ken is talking about, I don't tend to go that deep very often, unless doing the sitting still stuff, but sometimes.... usually when in the forest....

 

PS art pretty much sucks if you don't do it in a pretty good meditative/altered state. IMO.

[thelerner]

Maybe mindfulness is a better word for it, yet in some activities I cling to the belief its possible to act at a level deeper then that. You see top people perform and there's magic in it.

 

Can you move energy without being seated and in trance?? Isn't that what (high quality) chi gung / taichi/ buagua (and others) is all about? Its not a substitute for seated, but a moving forms imo are an ideal compliment to it.

 

Beyond philosophy and semantics, I'm saying take advantage of the master who opens up about an art done through the lens of spirituality. The right fit is life changing and a chance to cultivate and grow. Don't let pre judging keep you from joining such classes.

 

At the end of the 'Secret Smile' practice there is line 'I strive to become a complete human being' (or maybe I've just added it in myself), and part of the concept has to be more then sitting, no matter how powerful it is. You can't leave 'it' on the mat. Imo beyond moving and seated sequences we need wisdom practice as well; something as simple as listening to the wise (i like infinitesmile.org and podcasts from ajahn brahm lectures).

 

Will such things give you power and abilities? No, but it'll help make life less crazy on the way there, if thats your goal.

[Spotless]

Maybe mindfulness is a better word for it, yet in some activities I cling to the belief its possible to act at a level deeper then that. You see top people perform and there's magic in it.

 

Can you move energy without being seated and in trance?? Isn't that what (high quality) chi gung / taichi/ buagua (and others) is all about? Its not a substitute for seated, but a moving forms imo are an ideal compliment to it.

 

Beyond philosophy and semantics, I'm saying take advantage of the master who opens up about an art done through the lens of spirituality. The right fit is life changing and a chance to cultivate and grow. Don't let pre judging keep you from joining such classes.

 

At the end of the 'Secret Smile' practice there is line 'I strive to become a complete human being' (or maybe I've just added it in myself), and part of the concept has to be more then sitting, no matter how powerful it is. You can't leave 'it' on the mat. Imo beyond moving and seated sequences we need wisdom practice as well; something as simple as listening to the wise (i like infinitesmile.org and podcasts from ajahn brahm lectures).

 

Will such things give you power and abilities? No, but it'll help make life less crazy on the way there, if thats your goal.

 

The majority of my practice is in everyday walking around now.

 

I am doing Qi Gong almost exclusively as "formal practice", the practice helps me to maintain a level of energy in my surrounding space that aids me in self awareness throughout the day. It makes the integration of one day into the connected next day nearly seamless sometimes for several days.

The most subtle and intense activity is mindfulness for me. I do not have many thoughts floating through my space now, I choose where I am, where I am centered, and I am separating from this "buzz" of life, it has fallen away.

 

Several years ago whole chunks of me fell away, it was at a time I was doing lots of meditation (occasioned by the fact that I was putting my young son to bed by making up stories in a chair by his bed and then sat and meditated for much of the night, never less than a hour but during the time mentioned it was generally 3-4 hours)

 

The energy changes were incredible and the results were profound but not at all what I had considered, though I learned long ago that none of the accounts for what happens within the body seem to, in any real way, transmit the reality.

 

(I am excited that much of the track being laid down for all of us now and for the future is not something translated for us, but something awakened beings from the west can put into western words and from the perspective of western bodies and the unique traits of our various cultures)

 

At a certain point the profound quiet in my space needed the cultivation of accepting it and integrating "no thought".

Qi Gong was helping to heal my body but it was also bringing immense power into it and a distribution of energies at a gross level that was so grounding.

 

I had spent most of my life in my heady head and that coupled with a third eye experience that had not left me since my early 20s made Qi Gong a real discovery. How I was able to completely miss the entire group of practices that involved the lower, middle and upper dan tian is somewhat beyond me given the amount of material I devoured but I did. (my world was chakras, nadis ....)

 

And so, moving my center of awareness to my LDT had a massive impact and I had the incredible fortune to have what has been for me the perfect teacher. He is a very highly accomplished 6th generation Shaolin Temple Grand Master who speaks almost no English and for the first two years we covered about ten paragraphs with interpreters.

 

I did not need to speak to him much, I could see the energy and if I needed a tweak he would come over and tweak me.

I did 4 classes a week of Qi Gong and two classes of Tai Chi - very little meditation.

 

I now do 5 classes of Qi Gong.

 

All of the work is now centered around being in the present during all activities and staying in the quiet and accepting the buzz around me. I also have this life with my wife and a puppy and a 6.9 year old and a business.

 

This posting is very near and dear to me - it is about exactly where I am and it is obvious that it is a very fine note in most of us here.

 

I have been finding that I alternate from being deeply within this beautiful texture of the day and night, and then needing to attend to focus on some new product or business dealings, or the pressing needs of my little guy or a scheduled event where I have to function at some event at school that seems about a million miles from me but it is at the same time strangely no problem and of no weight.

 

It is an all new pervading integration along with allowing it all to happen and remembering to be in a thankful place because it all fits together like gold knit lace.

Edited May 15, 2014 by Spotless

[Spotless]

(Somehow a piece of someone else's comments got stuck in the middle of my last post - it was corrected)

[joeblast]

In order to really work with chi and make progress you have to be completely focussed. You can't meditate and cultivate chi while doing other activities. It's like saying that you can practice kung fu forms while playing soccer. Focus on soccer when it's time to play soccer and focus on kung fu when it's time to practice kung fu. If you try doing both at the same time you're just going to waste your time.

I see this view as overly fundamentalist and limiting. If you cant bring about the focus of awareness in all situations...turning the light around is easy and it can be done just about no matter what else you're doing, except perhaps heavy pondering on a given subject.

 

That's not to in any way diminish the importance of having cultivation time be entirely focused on only that. That is superlatively important. But to say the meditative mindset, clear focused awareness, cant effectively be used in a great many other situations, to excellent benefit, merely shows a too-powerful subscription to a certain (limited) mindset. Dont get me wrong, I get what you're trying to assert, but positing it in such a fundamentalist manner...you are sowing the seeds of preventing yourself from generating the ongoing enlightenment-awareness experience.

[KenBrace]

I see this view as overly fundamentalist and limiting. If you cant bring about the focus of awareness in all situations...turning the light around is easy and it can be done just about no matter what else you're doing, except perhaps heavy pondering on a given subject.

 

That's not to in any way diminish the importance of having cultivation time be entirely focused on only that. That is superlatively important. But to say the meditative mindset, clear focused awareness, cant effectively be used in a great many other situations, to excellent benefit, merely shows a too-powerful subscription to a certain (limited) mindset. Dont get me wrong, I get what you're trying to assert, but positing it in such a fundamentalist manner...you are sowing the seeds of preventing yourself from generating the ongoing enlightenment-awareness experience.

 

What is up with this "fundamentalist" thing? Seriously! What you are saying sounds exactly like this...

 

"This view of thinking that humans can't learn to fly after one week of meditation is overly fundamentalist and limiting."

 

The fact that you can't cultivate chi while doing house chores may be limiting but it's the truth. You can believe whatever you want but it doesn't change reality.

Edited May 15, 2014 by KenBrace

[joeblast]

 

 

"This view of thinking that humans can't learn to fly after one week of meditation is overly fundamentalist and limiting."

I lol'd. on par with yin qi from your ass in orbit! now go consider how far you've extrapolated my words

[SonOfTheGods]

Yi.

[KenBrace]

I lol'd. on par with yin qi from your ass in orbit! now go consider how far you've extrapolated my words

 

You must have missed my point.

[joeblast]

I specifically included verbiage to the contrary in my reply to you

 

That's not to in any way diminish the importance of having cultivation time be entirely focused on only that.

 

however, your extrapolations of my words indicate you didnt quite get my point.

 

*shrugs*

[Harmonious Emptiness]

This thread has given voice to some excellent comments, so kudos to that.

 

Now, what if we do take the word "meditation" out of the quotient and get more specific.

 

can we cultivate

 

calm

connection to... the Source

wisdom

kindness towards all beings

attention and calm and connection to our innermost being

sublimation (not suppression) of procreative energy

 

 

For myself, I think the majority of what I would say is meditation during mundane activities is mostly more "maintenance work" like guarding the chi within during activity. However, the more "cultivation" type of work that is always possible, imho, is sublimation of procreative energy into spiritual energy, manifesting positive spiritual states and energy. This of course takes previous experience of doing so in an attentive state of calm, but with some coordination in your breath and intention, it's entirely feasible during mundane activities.

 

Not to mention that plenty of masters realized sudden enlightenment while just walking around.

[Spotless]

You can definitely cultivate Qi while doing house chores.

At least with my understanding of the various ways in which you can "cultivate" Qi.

Did I miss something here? I would think adding energy to the LDT during chores would qualify.

[GrandmasterP]

Sweeping and mopping floors are tops for cultivating.

Mowing the lawns too.

Anything can work if done mindfully.

We tend to compartmentalise cultivation and that might privilege it above other equally beneficial activities such as doing the ironing.

Edited May 15, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[KenBrace]

You can definitely cultivate Qi while doing house chores.

At least with my understanding of the various ways in which you can "cultivate" Qi.

Did I miss something here? I would think adding energy to the LDT during chores would qualify.

 

If you think that you are cultivating chi in the LDT while doing house chores then you are most definitely deluding yourself.

[KenBrace]

Sweeping and mopping floors are tops for cultivating.

Mowing the lawns too.

Anything can work if done mindfully.

We tend to compartmentalise cultivation and that might privilege it above other equally beneficial activities such as doing the ironing.

 

You have to be in meditation to cultivate chi. You can't do it during a distracted waking state of consciousness.