Can we practice/meditate/do significant energy work while working on other things?

[thelerner]

You have to be in meditation to cultivate chi. You can't do it during a distracted waking state of consciousness.

Have you ever considered using the word 'I' or "In the system I follow' when making blanket statements- Instead of 'You'? The last 15 posts have been about the subject you repeatedly dismiss.

 

When you read comments from people like Spotless, who (I assume) has decades of experience on you (I think you're a teen with relatively little, please correct me if I'm wrong) you either don't read it, or it bounces off. Its not in your world view, so it can't be true. That's one reason why we some people here tend to think of you a fundamentalist. You repeat the exact same lines pretty often.

 

When someone writes about doing things outside your paradigm you insist it's impossible. When pressed you quote from your bible instead of being able to use first hand knowledge. If you've ever dealt with Mormon missionaries, its a very similar experience.

[KenBrace]

.

Edited May 16, 2014 by KenBrace

[KenBrace]

Have you ever considered using the word 'I' or "In the system I follow' when making blanket statements- Instead of 'You'? The last 15 posts have been about the subject you repeatedly dismiss.

 

 

 

When you read comments from people like Spotless, who (I assume) has decades of experience on you (I think you're a teen with relatively little, please correct me if I'm wrong) you either don't read it, or it bounces off. Its not in your world view, so it can't be true. That's one reason why we some people here tend to think of you a fundamentalist. You repeat the exact same lines pretty often.

 

 

 

When someone writes about doing things outside your paradigm you insist it's impossible. When pressed you quote from your bible instead of being able to use first hand knowledge. If you've ever dealt with Mormon missionaries, its a very similar experience.

 

You (yes that includes me) can't quote personal experience because to others it doesnt hold water. Lots of people claim to experience lots of things but most of it is fake. A boy claims to have went to heaven and back, another claims to remember his past life. Apostolics claim to speak in tongues and experience the holy spirit while Green Tiger thinks his shaking is due to Lomaxs chi power. Deluded morons on YouTube claim to feel chi in 20 minutes and make chi balls or whatever. The list just keeps going. Peoples personal experiences dont hold much water with me unless I have seen my own experiences replicate theirs or I have seen external evidence for their validity (Chang for example). I believe the stories that John Chang tells because his abilities can be seen externally and tested. Since I cant demonstrate any outward abilities my personal experiences mean nothing to anyone besides myself. I therefore do not have the right to state facts based on my own experience. This is why I quote Chang & what he taught his students. Dont think of it as my word against Spotless. Think of it as Changs word against Spotless, yours, MooNiNites, etc. You people tell me I am arrogant and in the same breath tell me to back up things with my own personal experience. The Magus of Java isnt my neigong Bible. It was written by a student of Chang who has demonstrated under controlled conditions that his abilities are real. Yahweh hasnt come forth and demonstrated the fact that he is God. The Bible therefore is taken by faith. Chang did however come forward and demonstrate his abilities, so what he says isnt taken by faith. If you, Spotless, or anyone else stepped forward and demonstrated Chang like abilities then I would take your experiences and what you say as relevant and very possibly true. Edited May 16, 2014 by KenBrace

[joeblast]

and personally I think JC would chuckle at you guys' strict, unyeilding, hardcore literal interpretation of his broken english, extrapolating it from "you cant cultivate X without doing Y" to "you can only cultivate X while doing Y"...

 

...and thus the more pie limitation conundrum you are afflicted with.

 

no different than people taking the words and only the words in the religious books as literal unequivocal hard truths and shatting on others for not following such a strict interpretation.

 

you miss that....yes, while you need superlative stillness to really build potential and get things going...but what of once you have cultivated your energy centers? you see jiang and chang do yinyanggong demonstrations, without sitting and getting into deep trance meditations. what the heck, how is that possible, that's why I call your view overly fundamentalist to the point of limiting. they do these things while in the course of their daily events. what buddhist sect is that again where a monk is considered to be breaking precepts in a fashion if he is not maintaining the focus of awareness constantly?

 

the ongoing enlightenment experience is an extension of cultivation into all aspects of life, so it would seem that your approach is rather inhibiting toward that end.

[KenBrace]

joebalst,

 

I suspect that after completing the fusion of yin and yang you are able to work with chi directly. After the fusion it is my understanding that you become a new being and can work with both yin and yang aspects of reality directly. The higher level you are from that point the more clearly you can feel chi. I could be wrong on this but it's what I've gathered from reading Jim and Kosta's books. I would presume that a level 40 Mo Pai could cultivate more chi during a waking state then a level 1 could in the borderline state. Once again this is just a theory though.

 

I do know however that during the early levels a person cannot feel chi during a waking state. And just because you don't practice Mo Pai doesn't mean that your spirit is somehow different. You still need to be at a certain level of developement to begin to be able to experience chi directly while in a waking state of consciousness. The system you practice is irrelevant.

Edited May 16, 2014 by KenBrace

[SonOfTheGods]

[SonOfTheGods]

Dim Mak makes use of active energy centers, therefore, the person administering, is cognizant of his/her faculties = i.e., not in a trance state.

 

Fa Jin, the individual is awake and aware.

 

 

In the primary building/attaining stage of Qi development though, it is hard to almost impossible to feel any flow.

[thelerner]

Let me thimblelize my argument and bow out.

 

1. First and mainly, its not about Mo Pai, its about a dickish attitude that fundamentalists have that makes them constantly repeat: I'm right all others are deluded. Always tiresome, from someone with little experience even worse. Expect others to feel the same you do, when they hear true believers (religious or nei gung oriented) pulling that shit.

 

 

 

silly errata I shouldn't mention-

2. If it was about Mo Pai, you might be screwed. Using Kostas book as a blue print bible may be a mistake, he's apparently not practicing Mo Pai himself and its questionable if it ever had Changs seal of approval or accuracy. More importantly, John Chang clearly says his (powerful) teachers in the Mo Pai spirit world told him/warned him/ scared him not to teach Westerners. I'm pretty sure that means they don't want Westerner's learning there art.

 

By studying Mo Pai you're going against the wishes of the spirit elders who may be kind of powerful (if you believe that kind of thing, & John Chang does). Evidence to back that up?? Jim's dead, that's not definitive proof ofcourse, but it'd be in the Against Westerns practicing column.

 

Imo a lineage nei gung art like Mo Pai is not just practices, its also about attaching yourself to it, ie gaining its spiritual baggage. Often a good thing, in Mo Pai's case, it seems a clear cut case of the spiritual elders saying No way Whitey. You don't like it or respect it, that's fine. Just understand that its out there and if more advanced Western practitioners die, you may want to consider backing off.

 

 

<do you need me to include the video of Pak John saying his spirit elders came to him and told him not to teach Westerners? I can dig it up>

[子泰]

In order to really work with chi and make progress you have to be completely focussed. You can't meditate and cultivate chi while doing other activities. It's like saying that you can practice kung fu forms while playing soccer. Focus on soccer when it's time to play soccer and focus on kung fu when it's time to practice kung fu. If you try doing both at the same time you're just going to waste your time.

i beg your pardon

 

[Spotless]

i beg your pardon

 

[/url]

Thank you Dazed! Soccer as it should be played!

 

Let's all redial our ignore preferences and move forward - this is a worthwhile thread.

 

For those of you who don't know, you can click on your profile button up top and in the menu that unfolds it will have

"manage ignore preferences", click on it and then add the names of people who's posts you do not want to see. From then on, you will not find them in any of the discussions you are reading, but you will find a simple marker that let's you know if they have said something and you can click on it if you decide you would like to take a peek at what they have written and it will open for you.

 

So if you decide that every time some particular person simply requires you to shout quotes at them and speak about things that you only imagine you know about, then you can stop them from becoming visible and requiring you to overstep your mastery and save yourself the trouble of having to find those quotes and all the cutting and pasting. By doing this you will not have to endure the lesser fools that you are required to set straight and the even lesser fools that will try as they may to find some middle ground with you as unlike you they do not understand There Is No Middle Ground. (Smiley Face)

Edited May 16, 2014 by Spotless

[KenBrace]

Let me thimblelize my argument and bow out.

 

1. First and mainly, its not about Mo Pai, its about a dickish attitude that fundamentalists have that makes them constantly repeat: I'm right all others are deluded. Always tiresome, from someone with little experience even worse. Expect others to feel the same you do, when they hear true believers (religious or nei gung oriented) pulling that shit.

 

 

 

silly errata I shouldn't mention-

2. If it was about Mo Pai, you might be screwed. Using Kostas book as a blue print bible may be a mistake, he's apparently not practicing Mo Pai himself and its questionable if it ever had Changs seal of approval or accuracy. More importantly, John Chang clearly says his (powerful) teachers in the Mo Pai spirit world told him/warned him/ scared him not to teach Westerners. I'm pretty sure that means they don't want Westerner's learning there art.

 

By studying Mo Pai you're going against the wishes of the spirit elders who may be kind of powerful (if you believe that kind of thing, & John Chang does). Evidence to back that up?? Jim's dead, that's not definitive proof ofcourse, but it'd be in the Against Westerns practicing column.

 

Imo a lineage nei gung art like Mo Pai is not just practices, its also about attaching yourself to it, ie gaining its spiritual baggage. Often a good thing, in Mo Pai's case, it seems a clear cut case of the spiritual elders saying No way Whitey. You don't like it or respect it, that's fine. Just understand that its out there and if more advanced Western practitioners die, you may want to consider backing off.

 

 

 

No need. I am aware of May Yung Chen, westerners being expelled, etc. I don't believe they had anything to do with Jim's prostate cancer however.

 

May I ask how long you have been in this (your years of experience)?

Edited May 16, 2014 by KenBrace

[Brian]

<snip>

 

...and thus the more pie limitation conundrum you are afflicted with.

 

</snip>

 

 

^^^ Worth the price of admission right there.

 

 

My two cents?

 

Zealots are amusing as long as they are impotent.

 

[GrandmasterP]

You have to be in meditation to cultivate chi. You can't do it during a distracted waking state of consciousness.

 

Thank you for sharing Ken.

Keep at it lad and one day you too may be able to take meditation off that cushion/ pedestal you seem to have

A teacher would help, we can only get so far on our own or via websites, books and online 'experts'.

 

[thelerner]

 

May I ask how long you have been in this (your years of experience)?

This? I don't do Mo Pai. Years of experience I started meditation in high school. Nothing special just sitting. I was always happy to have martial arts that included meditation and breathing exercises. I did 13 years of Shin shin toitsu Ki Aikido which included weekly ki classes from sitting, walking properly to meditation, and ki-atsu a healing modality. Got involved in Healing Tao, went to some of there retreats, up to Fusion 2. Upper levels there, Kan & Li, include melding the 5 souls in order to survive past death as oneself. Does it work, don't know, not my area of expertise.

 

I've taken advantage of various Tao Bum offerings. I took Kap, got some nice moves out of it. I did a S-M retreat that changed the way I've been sitting for past 2 decades as well as a simple charging hand placement. I worked with Templetao for a few months, his elemental system was one of the most difficult of any system; imagine doing a 21 second, 3 part breath cycle while in horse stance, while mentally repeating a mantra and holding mudras. But I'd worked a little with Max's 5 element standing so it wasn't bad. And I'll go through Rawn Clark's Archeaous system while standing so its doable.

 

In the mornings I'll do a guided meditation and luxuriate in what might be considered deep trance, others might consider sloppy day dreaming. In the shower I'll do Rawn Clark's YHVH practice, a kabalic chant where you also visualize various hebrew letters on your body, then a couple kind of matrix visualizations. Cool stuff. Sit a bit in emptiness. Do it again at night. When i can't sleep I do Max's Kunlun while sitting on the toilet. The spontaneous knee movements burning off excess energy.

 

I'm rambling. Mostly I dabble, but I've been meditating about 33 years. Last year I hit the Sivananda ashram (I don't do yoga, but enjoy the 2 daily meditation classes) and had a chance to talk to Hindu priests, scholars; people who said they had intimate relations with the living Hindu gods. Did they? I don't know, maybe, fascinating people though.

 

At 33 years of pratice I place myself in the low intermediate category. Lots of people here who are way beyond me and have some interesting specialties. I've made myself available to learn from many such as Taomeow, Steve, couple other old timers here who are certainly my seniors in cultivation.

[KenBrace]

This? I don't do Mo Pai. Years of experience I started meditation in high school. Nothing special just sitting. I was always happy to have martial arts that included meditation and breathing exercises. I did 13 years of Shin shin toitsu Ki Aikido which included weekly ki classes from sitting, walking properly to meditation, and ki-atsu a healing modality. Got involved in Healing Tao, went to some of there retreats, up to Fusion 2. Upper levels there, Kan & Li, include melding the 5 souls in order to survive past death as oneself. Does it work, don't know, not my area of expertise.

 

I've taken advantage of various Tao Bum offerings. I took Kap, got some nice moves out of it. I did a S-M retreat that changed the way I've been sitting for past 2 decades as well as a simple charging hand placement. I worked with Templetao for a few months, his elemental system was one of the most difficult of any system; imagine doing a 21 second, 3 part breath cycle while in horse stance, while mentally repeating a mantra and holding mudras. But I'd worked a little with Max's 5 element standing so it wasn't bad. And I'll go through Rawn Clark's Archeaous system while standing so its doable.

 

In the mornings I'll do a guided meditation and luxuriate in what might be considered deep trance, others might consider sloppy day dreaming. In the shower I'll do Rawn Clark's YHVH practice, a kabalic chant where you also visualize various hebrew letters on your body, then a couple kind of matrix visualizations. Cool stuff. Sit a bit in emptiness. Do it again at night. When i can't sleep I do Max's Kunlun while sitting on the toilet. The spontaneous knee movements burning off excess energy.

 

I'm rambling. Mostly I dabble, but I've been meditating about 33 years. Last year I hit the Sivananda ashram (I don't do yoga, but enjoy the 2 daily meditation classes) and had a chance to talk to Hindu priests, scholars; people who said they had intimate relations with the living Hindu gods. Did they? I don't know, maybe, fascinating people though.

 

At 33 years of pratice I place myself in the low intermediate category. Lots of people here who are way beyond me and have some interesting specialties. I've made myself available to learn from many such as Taomeow, Steve, couple other old timers here who are certainly my seniors in cultivation.

33 years isn't a short time. I am sure you invested many hours in practice. But what exactly do you have to show for all of it? What have you gained? Edited May 16, 2014 by KenBrace

[GrandmasterP]

Humility maybe.

[thelerner]

33 years isn't a short time. I am sure you invested many hours in practice. But what exactly do you have to show for all of it? What have you gained?

Powers my boy, powers. Lifting cars in the air, destroying villages with my mind, that kind of thing.

 

kidding (or am I?)

 

Doing some chi gung in a park once and a person once asked me what I was doing, I told him. He asked 'Why'. I thought for a moment and told him 'The birds seem to like it'. I wasn't being facetious, that's what popped into my mind and by golly, maybe its a trick of consciousness but it seems like the birds do like it.

 

More to the point- It's hard to know how crazy and annoying I'd be if I didn't meditate. A slow breath rate.. but really the biggest fruit is some wisdom, knowing when enough is enough, in some cases. Perhaps more then most I created the life I wanted. Good wife, good family, good friends. Retired early at 40, living comfortably. I think meditation and bits of the dharma (&luck) I picked up along the way helped me with this. And its very good.

[KenBrace]

Powers my boy, powers. Lifting cars in the air, destroying villages with my mind, that kind of thing.

 

kidding (or am I?)

 

Doing some chi gung in a park once and a person once asked me what I was doing, I told him. He asked 'Why'. I thought for a moment and told him 'The birds seem to like it'. I wasn't being facetious, that's what popped into my mind and by golly, maybe its a trick of consciousness but it seems like the birds do like it.

 

More to the point- It's hard to know how crazy and annoying I'd be if I didn't meditate. A slow breath rate.. but really the biggest fruit is some wisdom, knowing when enough is enough, in some cases. Perhaps more then most I created the life I wanted. Good wife, good family, good friends. Retired early at 40, living comfortably. I think meditation and bits of the dharma (&luck) I picked up along the way helped me with this. And its very good.

I see. It's good that you've created the life you wanted. I plan to work hard and retire at 40 as well. If you're completely satisfied with living your life and dying not worried about the afterlife then more power to you. This argument will get no where. Our goals and ideas about life are as different as night from day. I feel that in the grand scheme of things you have gained nothing in your 33 years of practce. It really is just a form of entertainment for you. Like a hobby. None of you people seem to be conserned with the big picture and what comes after your death. That's cool though. Good luck on your path.

[KenBrace]

 

Humility maybe.

Humility won't do you any good after your death, but if you're not conscerned about that then go right ahead and keep cultivating humility, patience, etc. If attaining good character traits is your goal in life then I wish you the best of luck.

Edited May 16, 2014 by KenBrace

[GrandmasterP]

Thanks Ken.

:-)

Not so sure there is a 'goal' as such in cultivation beyond getting it done every day.

Seems to me, and maybe this is just me so I'm definitely not prescribing this for anyone else.

If I cultivate towards a goal or an aim or for some outcome then that very 'desire' to get that benefit out of the cultivation somehow negates the cultivation.

Odd times it has really come together for me has been when all that aspiration and wanting something dissolved and it was 'just' cultivation almost doing itself without ( in a way) me even being there.

Can't describe it any better than that poor description.

Mostly it can be a right ball-ache just getting out there and doing it every single morning but just now and again it falls into place.

Edited May 16, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[thelerner]

Humility won't do you any good after your death, but if you're not conscerned about that then go right ahead and keep cultivating humility, patience, etc. If attaining good character traits is your goal in life then I wish you the best of luck.

Good character traits.. open doors. Without them, you may run around in circles. Being good gives strength because it allows you to share other peoples strength and wisdom.

 

also

Where have you gotten your ideas of the afterlife? What religion is informing it and do you actively practicing it? When people infatuate on a foreign philosophy they miss big and small nuances, because they miss the hundreds of hours of teachings that accompany them.

(in some way, do you consider kosta's books as your bible and john chang as your prophet?)

 

lastly

Are you here to learn or lecture? Does it effect you when someone gives a John Chang quote (from Kosta book) saying all people end with God. Or does it just bounce off, impossible ,because it doesn't fit your preconception and you're not here to learn. Only to repeat a few lines over and over?

[Spotless]

Some forms of cultivation can be done pretty much anytime and anywhere.

 

Fasting can be done for quite a while and all the time you can be going about your day doing all sorts of things.

 

I used to practice wide visual awareness as much as I could without forgetting myself - it is trying to be aware of the farther perimeters of your side vision while looking forward or anywhere.

 

Counting from 100 to 0. And from 0 to 100 simultaneously. This can actually be a mantra of sorts - and it is a good visualization tool for some during sitting meditation. But is can also be very good during waking chores and life as thinking is hard to do while doing it.

 

Memorizing the alphabet backwards in your head until you can clearly repeat it without a mistake several times is a good one to pull on yourself every few years or whatever it takes to forget it and start over. I did it not long ago in about 20 minutes driving from a meeting with some friends.

 

Obviously breathing into ones lower dan Tien going to sleep, waking up, showering, ............

 

Simply an awareness of breath - starting the day off with this can make a whole day out of it.

 

Cultivation is so effected by food and drink that actually truely attending to the elimination of unwanted effects is cultivation.

Some of this will / may happen by itself, but much of it needs real effort in the earlier stages. For some it is a cakewalk - lucky them.

I am referring to stimulants such as coffee and depressants such as alcohol, proper food combining and the timing of intake.

It was not many years ago when I was meditating allot that I came to simply not like the downer of alcohol - it became a real downer for my energy and I stopped. Not long after that meat became a complete heaviness and so I dropped that as well (my friends were somewhat shocked as I was the BBQ King) Eating late disturbs sleep and can be problematic for a whole host of reasons.

 

The food we eat is largely made of the finer elements (though some of these "finer" elements can be very crude.

In terms of weight we take in more weight in Air than in all our food and drink. We also take in what we focus on. We ca n take in the "ugly city" or in the same place we can take in "the amazingly active cohabitation" of the city. This is certainly practice.

We can choose the media we take in and we can choose to smell the flowers and see the moon and feel the air move through our nostrils.

 

We can time what we need to read because timing can really effect us. Going to bed after reading some high conscious writings or listening to a sat sang on YouTube is will carry you through the night in a high space.

Reviewing what you will be doing at work tomorrow and ending with a news broadcast with have you working and stressing throughout the night. This is cultivation.

 

Realizing your partner may be doing more than their fair share and upping your workload a bit is cultivation.

 

Preparing your own food and noting the difference your personal handling of the food makes to the energy of the food is cultivation.

 

Actually chewing your food and then actually listening to the person you are talking to can be a mind bending task for some of us - for some of us this is cultivation.

 

Parking your car farther out in the parking area and enjoying the walk into your local food shop or store instead of noticing how fast you can get in and out - this can be cultivation.

 

Learning to increase your body temperature to easily enjoy weather a bit on the cold side or practicing non-resistance to hot weather until you do not notice "oppresive heat" - this is cultivation.

 

Finishing your hot shower with an all cold shot - this will clear your space and shrink your -------- (ahhhh hum) it will clear beings from your space (possibly you) and reset your energy - this is cultivation.

 

You can scrub your skin from head to toe, a dry brush message or in the shower. Great for all sorts of things including your general energy and a bonding with your body.

 

When driving along and you come upon a person driving slowly or a person blocking a lane as they attempt to park or a person at a crosswalk that stands there after everyone has stopped for them - choose not to react, note if you reacted, notice your habituations, the energy you may throw at others.

This is dissipation, consistent unconscious dissipation and habituation to reactivity - chose otherwise - this is cultivation.

Edited May 17, 2014 by Spotless

[KenBrace]

Good character traits.. open doors. Without them, you may run around in circles. Being good gives strength because it allows you to share other peoples strength and wisdom.

 

Good for this life but useless after your death.

 

also

Where have you gotten your ideas of the afterlife? What religion is informing it and do you actively practicing it? When people infatuate on a foreign philosophy they miss big and small nuances, because they miss the hundreds of hours of teachings that accompany them.

(in some way, do you consider kosta's books as your bible and john chang as your prophet?)

I got my ideas about the afterlife from the one man on Earth that is extremely advanced and came forward to prove it. Mo Pai isn't a religion. It is a technology and a practice. One that I practice with the greatest effort whenever I have the time. Just yesterday I broke through a problem that I had been having during meditation and made it deeper than I've ever gone. I'm not just a dude sitting around on the computer all day preaching my gospel. I practice whenever I get the chance, and I practice hard. You know why? Because even though I believe that what Chang says is true and I believe that Mo Pai is a valid system that will end rebirth, I still won't know for sure until I experience things for myself. My greatest fear is that I will die before completing a high enough level to preserve myself after death. This is why I work hard on finishing school and studying for a Cisco exam I plan to take at the end of this summer. I need to establish a solid financial life so as to retire early and train 10+ hours a day for the rest of my life. Until I retire I will only be able to train during the weekends.

 

lastly

Are you here to learn or lecture? Does it effect you when someone gives a John Chang quote (from Kosta book) saying all people end with God. Or does it just bounce off, impossible ,because it doesn't fit your preconception and you're not here to learn. Only to repeat a few lines over and over?

Chang said that after death spirits go through a stage that the either gives them what they were denied during life or gives what they deserved for the evil during life. After this stage he believes that all spirits return to God for a time but eventually are reborn. I can find the quotes from The Magus of Java that talk about this if you want me to. I have no problem with the above view, but as always unless I experience this for myself I won't truly believe it. Edited May 17, 2014 by KenBrace

[joeblast]

why are you so attached to "your" body?

[Brian]

It's science, joeblast. You wouldn't understand.