A year of Agrippa :)

[BaguaKicksAss]

I'm going to do a local Agrippa book club. I'm going to take a year to have us go through the 3 books though, as it is sort of large, and it's not good to rush through it. One section per month I figure. We will be using this ever so awesome version: http://www.esotericarchives.com/agrippa/index.html

 

Anyone want to join us online? Wonder if I should leave this hear, put it in the book club section, or put it in my PPF with all sorts of nice sub fora for the sections?

 

Who's in?

 

Section 1 starts Sunday the 4th...

[sunchild]

[theurgy]

Sounds like fun

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

Soundz gripping.

 

xxx.

...

Edited April 26, 2014 by Captain Mar-Vell

[Zhongyongdaoist]

I suppose I could contribute some of my expertise from time to time.

[RiverSnake]

One day perhaps I'll read Agrippa. At the moment I have so many other books on my list.

 

My 2 cents, Peace

Edited April 30, 2014 by OldChi

[BaguaKicksAss]

One day perhaps I'll read Agrippa. At the moment I have so many other books on my list.

 

My 2 cents, Peace

 

Put all those other books aside and read Agrippa instead! You will thank me later .

 

lol

[Zhongyongdaoist]

So, tomorrow's the big day. I don't wish to jump the gun here, but since there has been nothing about how this is going to be approached, I will suggest that we start with Agrippa's Letter to the Reader, which contains the single best piece of advice for someone wishing to read these books anywhere, especially for someone trying to understand them now almost five centuries after they were written, because the chasm that separates Agrippa's worldview from our own is very big and one needs be aware it before embarking on a serious study of Agrippa.

[BaguaKicksAss]

ZYD, that was much better than my approach!

 

So I decided to start this up, complete with a local in person group as well... then 2 weeks later I went from 1 Bagua student to 5...(2 of which train twice per week) then also I found out I'm going to be taking Medical Qigong 3 in a month and a half and need to read 500 pages by then, of not Agrippa lol. Since there are a few interested, I'll still continue, but perhaps with a little less gusto lol.

[BaguaKicksAss]

That CD rom is worth every penny!

[Nungali]

Thanks for putting that up. I've been meaning to read it (so I can follow along here as best I can ), as its been some time ... but I was slack and didnt get around it to it.

 

Great comments on it too Donald ... thanks

[rex]

So, tomorrow's the big day. I don't wish to jump the gun here, but since there has been nothing about how this is going to be approached, I will suggest that we start with Agrippa's Letter to the Reader, which contains the single best piece of advice for someone wishing to read these books anywhere, especially for someone trying to understand them now almost five centuries after they were written, because the chasm that separates Agrippa's worldview from our own is very big and one needs be aware it before embarking on a serious study of Agrippa.

 

Wouldn't a basic understanding/overview of Neo-Platonism and the Divine Pymander of Hermes Trismegistus help too?

[BaguaKicksAss]

I don't think so. Hermes work was written in 1650, whereas the Agrippa work was in 1510. I feel that there were differing viewpoints and ways of going about things between that time.

 

Well that and the whole as above so below bit that magicians interpret to mean just visualize everything and go wander around on the astral a lot, I don't feel is in line with the types of magic Agrippa was working with/borrowed from.

[BaguaKicksAss]

Now Trithemius on the otherhand...

 

Next up, a note from Trithemius to Agrippa, and Agrippa to Trithemius: http://www.esotericarchives.com/agrippa/agrippa1.htm#intro

 

Just scroll down past Agrippa's intro.

[rex]

 

I don't think so. Hermes work was written in 1650, whereas the Agrippa work was in 1510. I feel that there were differing viewpoints and ways of going about things between that time.

Really? That may be when the Hermetica was translated but weren't the original texts written in the 2nd & 3rd centuries? But the translation is still over a century after Agrippa's work. However Ficino translated the Hermetica in 1471 though looking into the possible influences of this earlier translation with Agrippa is out of the scope of this thread and is probably more the domain of a research thesis. Edited May 6, 2014 by rex

[BaguaKicksAss]

Really? That may be when the Hermetica was translated but weren't the original texts written in the 2nd & 3rd centuries? But the translation is still over a century after Agrippa's work. However Ficino translated the Hermetica in 1471 though looking into the possible influences of this earlier translation with Agrippa is out of the scope of this thread and is probably more the domain of a research thesis.

 

Thank you for updating my years . So apparently it did come first. I still don't like the modern interpretation of the works being related to Agrippa.

 

Oh feel free to keep posting about important works which can be read prior to, or alongside Agrippa. All discussion is good I think. Though you may have to go with the cliffnotes version of your thesis .

 

Interesting would be your thoughts on which aspects of the two works/authors you mentioned, go well prior to Agrippa...

[manitou]

My goodness, you know a thing or two, don'tcha'?

[Nungali]

It most certainly is

[Nungali]

Just bumping this thread to say thanks to Donald again

 

The more of the background material I get through ... and then come back and re-read these posts ... the more I appreciate their view and content.

[BaguaKicksAss]

Sooooo you folks think the 4th book was written by him? (apologies if you have already mentioned about this and I had forgotten).

[Nungali]

Fourth ... book .... ?

 

Oh NOOO!

[Nungali]

I just snaffled it ... check it out later ... yeah ... who isnt busy lately!

[Zhongyongdaoist]

Sooooo you folks think the 4th book was written by him? (apologies if you have already mentioned about this and I had forgotten).

 

I was just quoting the source as is, but here is Wierus on the subject:

 

After the death of Agrippa a Fourth Book was added to it by another hand. Jo. Wierus de Magis, cap. 5. p. 108, says, "To these (books of Magic) may very justly be added, a work lately published, and ascribed to my late honoured host and preceptor, HENRY CORNELIUS AGRIPPA, who has been dead more than forty years; whence I conclude it is unjustly inscribed to his manes, under the title of THE FOURTH BOOK OF THE OCCULT PHILOSOPHY, OR OF MAGICAL CEREMONIES, which pretends likewise to be a Key to the three former books of the OCCULT PHILOSOPHY, and all kinds of Magical Operations." Thus John Wierus expresses himself; . . . (Internet Sacred Text Archive, Francis Barratt, The Magus, Biography of Agrippa, p. 178, Emphasis mine, ZYD)

 

So, while Wierus denies its authenticity, he notes that it may 'very justly be added', enough approval for me to be willing to take it seriously, if not as profound an authority as the established Three Books.

[BaguaKicksAss]

OK so, I finally found a copyright free copy of Agrippa that I can copy/paste from. It's not the best version (I have heard bad things about it) but it will have to do, and I can also point people to esotericarchives.com version for clarification. Just whatever you do, don't read Tyson's footnotes on/in his version of it! He pulls modern golden dawn correspondences and thinking and plugs them into Agrippa's work, assuming they are the same. They aren't.

 

https://archive.org/details/HeinrichCorneliusAgrippa-PhilosophyOfNaturalMagicAllIiiVolumes_224 is where you can download a copy, but I will also be posting bits each day (when I am online that is) here, as well as on my website (using wordpress hehe).

 

Here is a nice copy: https://archive.org/details/threebooksofoccu00agri

 

Another: https://archive.org/details/ThreeBooksOfOccultPhilosophydeOccultaPhilosophia1651

 

It may be interesting to compare and contrast each version too .

Edited November 23, 2014 by BaguaKicksAss

[BaguaKicksAss]

AGRIPPA TO TRITHEMIUS.

 

To R. P. D. John Trithemius, an Abbot of Saint James, in the Suburbs of Herbipolis, Henry Cornelius Agrippa of Nettesheim sendeth

 

Greeting: When I was of late, most reverend father, for a while conversant with you in your Monastery of Herbipolis, we conferred together of divers things concerning Chemistry, Magic, and Cabala, and of other things, which as yet lie hid in Secret Sciences and Arts; and then there was one great question amongst the rest —

 

Why Magic, whereas it was accounted by all ancient philosophers to be the chiefest science, and by the ancient wise men and priests was always held in great veneration, came at last, after the beginning of the Catholic Church, to be always odious to and suspected by the holy Fathers, and then exploded by Divines, and condemned by sacred Canons, and, moreover, by all laws and ordinances forbidden? Now, the cause, as I conceive, is no other than this, viz. : Because, by a certain fatal depravation of times and men, many false philosophers crept in, and these, under the name of Magicians, heaping together, through various sorts of errors and factions of false religions, many cursed superstitions and dangerous rites, and many wicked sacrileges, even to the perfection of Nature; and the same set forth in many wicked and unlawful books, to which they have by stealth prefixed the most honest name and title of Magic; hoping, by this sacred title, to gain credit to their cursed and detestable fooleries. Hence it is that this name of Magic, formerly so honorable, is now become most odious to good and honest men, and accounted a capital crime if any one dare profess himself to be a Magician, either in doctrine or works, unless haply some certain old doting woman, dwelling- in the country, would be believed to be skillful and have a divine power, that she (as saith Apuleis the satirist) “can throw down the heaven, lift up the earth, harden fountains, wash away mountains, raise up ghosts, cast down the Gods, extinguish the stars, illuminate hell,” or, as Virgil sings:

 

She’ll promise Uj her charms to cast great cares,

Or ease the minds of men, and make the Stars

For to go back, and rivers to stand still,

And raise the nightly ghosts even at her ivill;

To make the earth to groan, and trees to fall

From the mountains

 

Hence those things which Lucan relates of Thessala the Magicianess, and Homer of the omnipotency of Circe. Whereof many others, I confess, are as well of a fallacious opinion as a superstitious diligence and pernicious labor; for when they cannot come under a wicked art yet they presume they may be able to cloak themselves under that venerable title of Magic.

 

These things being so, I wondered much and was not less indignant that, as yet, there had been no man who had either vindicated this sublime and sacred discipline from the charge of impiety or had delivered it purely and sincerely to us. What I have seen of our modern writers—Roger Bacon, Robert of York, an Englishman, Peter Apponus, Albertus [Magnus] the Teutonich, Arnoldas de villa Nova, Anselme the Parmensian, Picatrix the Spaniard, Cicclus Asculus of Florence, and many other writers of an obscure name—when they promise to treat of Magic do nothing but relate irrational tales and superstitions unworthy of honest men. Hence my spirit was moved, and, by reason partly of admiration, and partly of indignation, I was willing to play the philosopher, supposing that I should do no discommendable work—seeing* I have been always from my youth a curious and undaunted searcher for wonderful effects and operations full of mysteries—if I should recover that ancient Magic (the discipline of all wise men) from the errors of impiety, purify and adorn it with its proper lustre, and vindicate it from the injuries of calumniators; which thing, though I long deliberated of it in my mind, I never durst undertake; but after some conference betwixt us of these things, at Herbipolis, your transcending* knowledge and learning, and your ardent adhortation, put courage and boldness into me. There selecting” the opinions of philosophers of known credit, and purging the introduction of the wicked (who, dissemblingly, and with a counterfeited knowledge, did teach that traditions of Magicians must be learned from very reprobate books of darkness or from institutions of wonderful operations), and, removing all darkness I have at last composed three compendious books of Magic, and titled them Of Occult Philosophy, being” a title less offensive, which books I submit (you excelling in the knowledge of these things) to your correction and censure, that if I have wrote anything which may tend either to the contumely of Nature, offending God, or injury of religion, you may condemn the error; but if the scandal of impiety be dissolved and purged, you may defend the Tradition of Truth; and that you would do so with these books, and Magic itself, that nothing may be concealed which may be profitable, and nothing approved of which cannot but do hurt; by which means these three books, having passed your examination with approbation, may at length be thought worthy to come forth with good success in public, and may not be afraid to come under the censure of posterity.

 

Farewell, and pardon these my hold undertakings.

 

 

TRITHEMIUS TO AGRIPPA.

 

John Trithemms, Abbot of Saint James of Herbipolis, formerly of Spanhemittj to his Henry Cornelius Agrippa of Nettesheim, health and love:

 

Your work, most renowned Agrippa, entitled Of Occult Philosophy, which you have sent by this bearer to me, has been examined. With how much pleasure I received it no mortal tongue can express nor the pen of any write. I wondered at your more than vulgar learning-—that you, being so young, should penetrate into such secrets as have been hid from most learned men; and not only clearly and truly but also properly and elegantly set them forth. Whence first I give you thanks for your good will to me, and, if I shall ever be able, I shall return you thanks to the utmost of my power. Your work, which no learned man can sufficiently commend, I approve of. Now that you may proceed toward higher things, as you have begun, and not suffer such excellent parts of wit to be idle, I do, with as much earnestness as I can, advise, in treat and beseech you that you would exercise yourself in laboring after better things, and demonstrate the light of true wisdom to the ignorant, according as you yourself are divinely enlightened. Neither let the consideration of idle, vain fellows withdraw you from your purpose; I say of them, of whom it is said, ” The wearied ox treads hard, ” whereas no man, to the judgment of the wise, can be truly learned who is sworn to the rudiments of one only faculty. But you have been by God gifted with a large and sublime wit, and it is not that you should imitate oxen but rather birds; neither think it sufficient that you study about particulars, but bend your mind confidently to universals; for by SO much the more learned any one is thought, by how much fewer things he is ignorant of. Moreover, your wit is fully apt to all things, and to be rationally employed, not in a few or low things, but many and sublimer. Yet this one rule I advise you to observe that you communicate vulgar secrets to vulgar friends, but higher and secret to higher and secret friends only: Give hay to an ox, sugar to a parrot only. Understand my meaning, lest you be trod under the oxen’s feet, as oftentimes it falls out. Farewell, my happy friend, and if it lie in my power to serve you, command me, and according to your pleasure it shall without delay be done; also, let our friendship increase daily; write often to me, and send me some of your labors I earnestly pray you. Again farewell.

 

From our Monastery of Peapolis, the 8th day of April, A. D. MDX.

 

In January, 1531, Agrippa wrote from Mechlin to Hermann of Wied, Archbishop of Cologne, to whom he dedicated his Occult Philosophy. In this letter he says: “Behold! amongst such things as were closely laid up—the books Of Occult Philosophy, or of Magic,”’ ” a new work of most ancient and abstruse learning; ” *’a doctrine of antiquity, by none, I dare say, hitherto attempted to be restored.” “I shall be devotedlyyours if these studies of my youth shall by the authority of your greatness come into knowledge,” “seeing many things in them seemed to me, being older, as most profitable, so most necessary to be known. You have therefore the work, not only of my youth but of my present age,” “having added many things.” The etching inserted at this place is made from the title page of the only complete English edition of the Occult Philosophy of Magic heretofore published.

Edited November 5, 2014 by BaguaKicksAss