A year of Agrippa :)

[BaguaKicksAss]

This might be alluding to the nine spheres (introduced by Plato?). We are in the first sphere, that of the Earth. The next sphere closest to us is that of the Moon. Next is Mercury, Venus, Sun...until Saturn, which is the eighth sphere. The final sphere is the sphere of the fixed stars. The further we move away from Earth, and the closer we are to the fixed star, the more "perfect" we become and the closer we are to God (which may be represented by the Form of the Good).

 

Does Agrippa speak of this particular layout later on in his book? I don't actually remember, been quite some time since I read it cover to cover.

 

Personally I took it to mean either the various worlds of the astral, etheric and etc. planes, or perhaps the myriad of neverending worlds similar but different to ours.

 

So anyway, Agrippa asserts that it is possible for us to ascend through these spheres and become closer to the Creator, who created all things (here perhaps we see the Christian influence, although Christianity was arguably influenced by earlier Greek philosophies as well). The part in bold reminds me of a certain Christian prayer.

 

I would be interested to know what the original Greek prayer/text was which the prayer you are thinking of was based on? Not that I know which one you mean since I'm not up on my Christian prayers, but I do find it interesting to dig up the original sources of them. No one has some up with a handy cross reference website for this yet .

[Michael Sternbach]

Larxene, I was thinking something like that myself.

 

I wouldn't say that this or other TTB threads are messy, but since most people here are spontaneous Daoists uttering whatever comes to their mind, the threads easily get a little... non-linear.

 

For reasons of progress with the topic, it's good to have an organized thinker like you on board.

 

BKA, what if you would open up a new thread when you post a new chapter? This way, people can keep commenting on earlier chapters, when they have new insights, while the focus will be on the latest thread which will be easier to keep neat.

[BaguaKicksAss]

I suppose 'superior' is central or pure or originating form .... considering the complex hierarchies that were in place ( still evident in Enochian and Kabbalistic systems today).

 

I imagine at the beginning Agrippa will have to write in passing about some things that will be outlined in detail later when he gets to those sections . One has to start somewhere in an intro to a subject.

 

 

The poem ... been a while since I read that ... I like it, it outlines things we still do today (and part of the work I used to do in BD agriculture ... and get paid for it ! I am sure todays Moon planting guides and our BD timetables {and ideas about 'cosmic flux' and Moon Saturn oppositions, etc } are somewhat different from then ... but the principle seems the same).

 

The 3 requirements / types of philosophy are interesting. " and in the Aspects, and Figures of the Stars, upon which depends the sublime virtue and property of every thing". Perhaps this also demonstrates the idea of superior influence ? ... every living thing 'below' them ( I used em that time as I didnt mean 'below' in just a physical sense)

 

And the elements start of with a strong theme of circulation. I like that. I think the principle of circulation is an important natural process that we try to emulate in many arts .. and may well be a crucial process if not the crucial process.

 

It seems a bit of a confusing way to start, with the four elements like that ... with the ' modifying qualities' attached to the Elements , instead of a precursor (but that is the way it worked back then I guess ... and I am still coming from an agricultural and modern hermetic perspective - ie. start with light , temperature, moisture ( and the polarities of each) .

 

Also I liked the way me explained why his order of elements were the way they appear here; by sharing secondary qualities.

 

( It annoys me when people just declare stuff, without saying what their reasons are. )

 

What does BD stand for?

[BaguaKicksAss]

Hey guys,

 

I wasn't really concerned about "desecration" or criticisms. I was thinking more in the lines of this: imagine you stopped at page 15. You came back one week or one month later, and you forgot which page you stopped at. Are you going to re-read the 15 pages again? My eyes go X_X when I do that. A temporary solution is to bookmark the page, but there are problems with that as well...

 

Right now it's not a problem because this thread is only 6 pages long. I was thinking about the future, when we have gone through one whole book, and the thread reaches like page 20+. So yeah, like I said, I am just a bit of a neat freak.

 

Ignore my suggestion for now until we've reached at least 20 pages.

 

 

 

Larxene

 

But if we start early, by the time it reaches 20 pages, it'll be all organized and such .

[Zhongyongdaoist]

Here is the general structure of Book One. If we make an index which first gives these broad categories and then when each of these main topic chapters is introduced create a sub-index for the other individual chapters, that might be a good way to organize the material.

 

Chapters One and Two introduce the subject of the Magician, what he studies and what he practices.

 

How Magicians Collect vertues from the Three-fold World, is Declared in these Three Books.

Followed by Chapter Two, which is developed as the content of Books One, which outlines and discusses the Theory and Practice of Natural Magic,Two, which outlines and discusses the Theory and Practice of Mathematical Philosophy and Celestial Magic,and Three, which outlines and discusses the Theory and Practice of Ceremonial Magic.

 

Chapter Three then introduces a Theoretical account of Natural Magic which continues until Chapter Thirty-four where he begins to describe the practice of Natural Magic

 

Of the Four Elements, their Qualities, and Mutual Mixtions.

Introduces the topic of the elements, chapters 3-9

 

One of the most important and misunderstood aspects of traditional magic is that of "Occult Virtues". Agrippa introduces them here:

 

Of the Occult vertues of Things

Developed in Chapters 10-21, of which chapters 10-14 are of critical importance.

 

In the Nineteenth Century when Magic was being revived there were not many people who really understood how Occult Virtues fit into the philosophy and worldview of the Renaissance. When I was first reading Agrippa's first Book back in 1972-74, these chapters were to have a very strong influence on me developing a totally different view of magic and its practice than I had developed from my reading of late Nineteenth and Twentieth Century authors.

 

How Inferior Things are Subjected to Superior Bodies, and how the Bodies, the Actions, and Dispositions of Men are Ascribed to Stars and Signs.

Developed in Chapters 22-33, these are the reflections in the natural world of the subjects dealt with in Book Two.

 

Agrippa Starts his discussion of the practice of Natural Magic with Chapter Thirty-four, which deals with how the correspondence of “inferiors” with “superiors” can be used to draw down into certain preparations of natural things.

 

How, by Natural Things and their vertues, We may Draw Forth and Attract the Influences and vertues of Celestial Bodies.

Developed in Chapters 34-39

 

The application of “superiors” in the “binding” of natural phenomena and other matters is a very important aspect of the practice of Natural Magic. In modern times, except for some people with, shall we say, uncommon sexual proclivities, binding probably has a bad name. There is of course a lot more to the magical art of “binding”, then is ordinarily considered, but as far as binding goes, who wouldn't want to live in a locale one found perfect, in an abode which one found “enchantingly” attractive, and do work that one found to be amazingly fulfilling? This is how spirits bound should feel about their "binding" and any binding that falls short of this is just incompetent magic, and there will be trouble in the long run. The magical system of Geomancy is the practical key to good binding.

 

Of Bindings; what Sort they are of, and in what Ways they are wont to be Done.

Developed in Chapters 40-74

 

However there are certain important chapters in this section that introduce important sub-topics within the subject of binding.:

 

Introduces the subject of Divination,

 

Of Divination, and the Kinds thereof.

Developed in Chapters 53-60

 

Agrippa considers traditional Anthropology and Psychology here:

 

Of the Forming of Man, of the External Senses, also those Inward, and the Mind; and of the Threefold Appetite of the Soul, and Passions of the Will.

Developed in Chapters 61-68, these are expanded in significant ways in Book Three.

 

And finally gets around to dealing with the virtue and power of words as sounds created in the natural world and which "naturally" have a strong correspondence with what is “superior”

 

Of Speech, and the Occult vertue of Words.

Developed in Chapters 69-74

 

The links are of course to Joseph Peterson's Twilight Grotto so that the casual reader of this thread can see what I am talking about these chapters as being important organizational points.

 

I will also note that this post was rather hastily assembled, my apologies for any errors, but I do hope that it is useful.

 

 

 

 

Edit: Under the section "Of the Occult vertues of Things", I changed difference to different. Under "Of Bindings; what Sort they are of, and in what Ways they are wont to be Done", I changed 72 to 74 in the sentence on chapters developed in that topic.

 

Edit two: Added the sentence, "This is how spirits bound should feel about their "binding" and any binding that falls short of this is just incompetent magic, and there will be trouble in the long run." under binding to avoid any misunderstanding.

Edited November 23, 2014 by Zhongyongdaoist

[BaguaKicksAss]

Just in case I hadn't posted this earlier, ZYD was nice enough to PM me a link to one of the original Latin versions

 

https://archive.org/details/DeOccultaPhilosophiaLoc1533

[BaguaKicksAss]

It's gotten all quiet around here, now that we have a nice shiny new section...

 

Anyone wish to start in with chapter 2?

 

I will be posting some more chapters, next week.

[Larxene]

I still have assignments and exam prep to do, plus my main occult study, so I'll come back to this in maybe a month.

 

 

 

Larxene

[Nungali]

It's gotten all quiet around here, now that we have a nice shiny new section...

 

Anyone wish to start in with chapter 2?

 

I will be posting some more chapters, next week.

 

 

I thought I did ... it must be within my comments on Ch. 1 ? .... things may still a bit mixed from the new arrangements,

 

 

It should sort itself out now when you post ch 3 .

[BaguaKicksAss]

I have work and family stuff right now, so my posting and reading has slowed down quite a bit...

[Larxene]

Real life is such a bother. Let's just live inside the Internet.

[BaguaKicksAss]

I'll go with a decent sized temple myself, with a nice full bookshelf .

[Nungali]

[BaguaKicksAss]

Apologies for Agrippa post slacking! My personal magical practiced has increased manyfold lately as I've been leading some group workings and etc. Also had to catch up on work over the holidays. I will be back posting Agrippa shortly (as in within a couple of weeks, still getting used to my new schedule)

[Zhongyongdaoist]

Apologies for Agrippa post slacking! My personal magical practiced has increased manyfold lately as I've been leading some group workings and etc. Also had to catch up on work over the holidays. I will be back posting Agrippa shortly (as in within a couple of weeks, still getting used to my new schedule)

 

Thanks for letting us know, I had seen that you weren't posting and was getting a little concerned. We will all be happy when you can post again.

[Nungali]

 

I have survived the 'happy season' , the family reunion, the hoards of tourists ( still about a bit ) , now for the humid heat and potential flash-floods of mid-summer .... so that means I have started to 'settle down' to 2015

 

I hope you have too

 

here is an encouraging 'titbit' for you;

 

 

 

 

 

[ and also, in the meantime, I put up a post about 'other' great magical women ]

Edited January 12, 2015 by Nungali

[BaguaKicksAss]

Thank you guys .

 

I'm busily focusing on my various practices and my work/website... The internet can unfortunately take up way too much time, so I'm getting more focused on things not internet.

 

Oh and teaching a few classes per week in person too.