Water

[skydog]

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Edited April 25, 2014 by skydog

[skydog]

I think everyone should have a basic income.

 

https://www.facebook.com/BasicIncomeUK

Edited April 25, 2014 by skydog

[mike 134]

I sense opportunity. I'd bet pretty much any young guy who has a half decent job would be a god to the young women there...

[skydog]

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Edited April 25, 2014 by skydog

[skydog]

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Edited April 25, 2014 by skydog

[skydog]

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Edited April 25, 2014 by skydog

[GrandmasterP]

Dunno about Spain but if Greece sacked the Euro and went back onto their own Drachma then they'd be fighting off the tourists once again.

Time was Greek holidays were a total bargain but since the Euro came in it's become no different to anywhere else.

Where we used to go on Samos most of the Greek young folk came from the mainland and made their money in summer working the tourist trade then took winters off.

Edited April 24, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Brian]

I think everyone should have a basic income.

 

https://www.facebook.com/BasicIncomeUK

Why do you think that, skydog?

[Stosh]

Its the kind of thing that works a bit initially but , it is labor that creates the value of the coinage to the individual who earned the coin, this assessment about how dear that coin comes is what makes one reluctant to part with it, and THAT is how the money retains a value. To dump a basic level of cash out on the public drops the value of cash actually being earned. Yes it does redistribute the wealth to those who arent working , and yes having everyone involved with the economy is a good thing,, (which one isnt if they cant produce or purchase anything) but it undermines the value of the coinage and drives capital elsewhere.

You can picture this mechanism if you were to have the idea that you are just going to announce that the value of all your drachmas , will tomorrow be worth ten drachmas. Just announce it. "Hey everyone !" I hereby multiply your money.

The effect will be chaos ,not a doubling of wealth ,, because money is a means of exchange of weath which is actually the tangible item or labor one buys and the importance of that weath is a fuction of that which was required to gain the item as well as the inherent value of the item.

The cure for the poverty problem is to get everyone involved in EARNING.

 

Not having everyone involved is why a country might have a geat economic product , like oil , and the vast majority of the populace has little to nothing.

Edited April 25, 2014 by Stosh

[GrandmasterP]

+1

The Greek economy thrived on tourism but since the Euro price rises they've had no real control.

I'm no economist but an Athenian family we know all earned their money over the summer season on

Samos and took it easy back home through winter.

Now they are all out of work and struggling to get by as tourism has crashed.

Edited April 25, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[joeblast]

I think

 

I think everyone should have a basic income.

 

https://www.facebook.com/BasicIncomeUK

I think instead of increasing the number of handouts, decrease them substantially, starting with the handouts that the very biggest players in the game get. Then compound that by decreasing the 'handouts' (or more like hand-ins, backpockets more like) that the government gets, decrease the amount of funny money they have to wizz away on their pet projects. tax consumption and not income.

 

then start implementing the rule of law evenly for all citizens, not just the peeons.

 

that would go so far towards prosperity it wouldnt even be funny.

 

need to stop incentivizing laziness just like we need to stop incentivizing graft and corruption. ya know, like jail the people responsible for interest rate fixing and PM/commodity price fixing instead of people wondering why a 13th banker this year was suicided...at least it was a jump and not nailgun to the back of the head suicide...

[skydog]

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Edited April 25, 2014 by skydog

[skydog]

i am chilling for while

Edited April 25, 2014 by skydog

[Brian]

But you don't have to pay to live on Earth, skydog. Provide for your own food and clothing and housing and walk wherever you go and you are independent of society's economic bonds.

 

It is really that simple. Simply walk away.

 

Or are you also wanting to retain the standard of living to which you have grown accustomed?

[joeblast]

Youth unemployment is ridiculously high all over the world despite what any news statistics show

now ask whyyyyyyyyyy

 

what does min wage do to youth employment?

 

what does insurance requirement do to bottom lines (smaller you are the more it gouges you)

 

what does a blank checkbook in the gov's hands do?

 

what does massive capital misallocation do to employment as a whole? (gov says spend money here or just takes it and spends it)

 

what is the effect of socializing losses of "tbtf" and letting them keep winnings

 

what is the effect of revolving door between gov institutions and the things they supposedly regulate?

 

(smaller you are the more it gouges you, repeat repeat)

 

what you witness is gov failure after gov failure after gov failure, being bought out by $ is gov failure too. gov becomes ostensible enabler of graft & corruption.

[skydog]

I did economics too

 

 

 

It is a very strange and wrong way of understanding the world IMO

[Brian]

People often fail to recognize that the trading of personal energy is a human characteristic rather than a contrived economic theory. Part of this misunderstanding stems from people in positions of authority who are, in fact, advocating for a contrived economic theory which denies a number of fundamental observations of human behavior.

[Stosh]

People often fail to recognize that the trading of personal energy is a human characteristic rather than a contrived economic theory. Part of this misunderstanding stems from people in positions of authority who are, in fact, advocating for a contrived economic theory which denies a number of fundamental observations of human behavior.

Thats interesting, would you expand on it?

[Aetherous]

I'm with skydog. Although, there is reality and working with it, for ones own benefit, and then there is reality and not working with it, to ones own detriment.

 

Oh also, about exchange of energy...imagine agreeing to exchange energy (lets say in the form of trading different foods with another person) in a world where you go pick a piece of land, build your own house out of the wood on the land, hunt fish and grow food right there, drink unpolluted water right there, etc...without owing anyone anything. That's how the world is supposed to be. It's easy to agree to an exchange in that situation. But when they make even existing cost money, I can understand the outrage...because honestly, no one owes other people to exist. To live somewhere. To eat and drink normal amounts. Those are basic human rights, believe it or not...and they are stripped from us by capitalism.

Basically, there's not an equal exchange in our societies today. If you're born owing others, what are you getting out of the exchange? It's more like theft than it is exchange.

You can feel this more if you don't have an income, or have a really poor one. For instance, I am currently working a job that does a lot of overtime, and I'm making 10 an hour. With taxes of course, it's less. Having accumulated student loans, that's literally not enough to support myself. Ridiculous that most of my life is going to this job that actually isn't earning enough to support my life.

In such a situation, you know intimately that the way things are is screwed up.

But like I said...you can either work with reality, or not. Complaining doesn't get you money...unless you write a book. Working with reality also doesn't mean "get a job"...it means figure out a way. NFL players for instance, make tons of money, and they just play sports part of the time. They work with reality.

Edited April 26, 2014 by Aetherous

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

Although, there is reality and working with it, for ones own benefit, and then there is reality and not working with it, to ones own detriment.

 

Exactly so.

...

Edited April 29, 2014 by Captain Mar-Vell

[Brian]

Thats interesting, would you expand on it?

Gladly, but it will be a few days as I am travelling this weekend.

[Rara]

But like I said...you can either work with reality, or not. Complaining doesn't get you money...unless you write a book. Working with reality also doesn't mean "get a job"...it means figure out a way. NFL players for instance, make tons of money, and they just play sports part of the time. They work with reality.

This.

 

After uni, I was unemployed for 3 months. "Screw this" I said. I became a freelance/self-employed entertainer. That tax-relief and benefits are incredible when starting out. Just don't work a min eage job for a supermarket etc.

 

Play the game.

[GrandmasterP]

Gotta ask.

What sort of gigs were you doing Rara?

Edited April 27, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[skydog]

,

Edited April 27, 2014 by skydog

[skydog]

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Edited April 27, 2014 by skydog