Famous Qigong and internal martial arts teachers, you need to seriously up your game!

[BaguaKicksAss]

It's awesome and all that you have written books, are world famous, led workshops and classes with thousands of people and such. Also awesome that you have this amazing lineage.

 

HOWEVER, seriously folks, teach EVERYONE the basics, the principals, the stuff that actually makes it WORK!

 

Because if you don't, when your students go train with others, and the new teacher says "OK so you know the standard posture, we can skip over that as it is your first class", and the student looks confused and says that hasn't been covered before.... it makes you look bad. Really bad. I don't mean that the student doesn't have good posture, I mean as in have never heard of feet about shoulder width apart pointing forward and/or tailbone under and/or head/neck up straight and etc. (varies a tiny bit by path), mingmen out, tongue to the roof of the mouth (seriously, some of you guys skip that bit, wtf?), anus and/or perinium and/or genitals tensed a bit (or a lot, dep on path)... some of you folks skipped ALL that?! This is first class, or at least first few classes sort of stuff! Not skip it during an entire 4 month course, or a bunch of several day long workshops. Seriously, what were you thinking? You really honestly think having the student stand there however and wave their arms about a bit is considered qigong? You think that random posture and no structure = martial arts?!

 

Or how about famous Bagua teachers who call walking about in a circle just as one is walking down the street circle walking?! Oh sure it's difficult as hell, especially for new folks, but there is a lot more to it than just wandering around in a circle! Such as that posture bit mentioned above. Structure. Where to power from, and etc.

 

Yes, yes I know, not every student is your disciple, or even necessarily good at it. That is irrelevant, sometimes the "worst" students end up being the best in the long run simply because they practice more. Also even for someone who doesn't practice much, correct practice will help their health at the very least. Perhaps you think "oh they won't understand it in the first year or two". Yeah whatever, try anyways, give them something to work on, something which should be taught from day one so they don't end up with bad habits, bad practice, qi deviations or other ill affects, or perhaps just make your teaching and you look bad.

 

Famous teachers, I feel you should take your art and your teaching more seriously.

 

Your students deserve it. The path deserves it. There has already been enough lost over the centuries; we don't need huge gaping holes in the fundamentals to completely destroy the art all together!

 

On a side note, fortunately every single teacher I have ever trained with (accept one, which I only attended a few classes with), covered the essentials very early on.

 

Yes this is all true, yes these are actual experiences, yes I mean more than one famous teacher.

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

It's awesome and all that you have written books, are world famous, led workshops and classes with thousands of people and such. Also awesome that you have this amazing lineage.

 

I alwayz said BKA was very wize.

 

xxx.

...

 

.

[soaring crane]

Name names!

[BaguaKicksAss]

Name names!

 

Nah, wouldn't be appropriate I think. Also I still very much such at Bagua, qigong and such (newbie), so wouldn't be my place to name names and call folks who have been doing it for quite some time down. I just wish that more quality teachings would be passed down to our future generations... we lose more and replace it with poor practice each time this happens .

[GrandmasterP]

So many patented nostrums out there now too.

Everyone and his uncle designing some quackery to sell on as the next big thing.

Dime store diplomas in this and that albeit they cost a lot more than a dime for the useless 'training'.

It's a business and a lucrative one at that.

" Back to Basics" is a good call BKA.

Without sure foundations no building can stand up securely.

Edited April 26, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Friend]

Basics and foundation are roots for the art.

Even walking in a circle is full of traps.

[liminal_luke]

That is irrelevant, sometimes the "worst" students end up being the best in the long run simply because they practice more.

 

This line might not speak directly to your overall point, but I loved it and think it´s true.

 

Liminal

[thamosh]

It's awesome and all that you have written books, are world famous, led workshops and classes with thousands of people and such. Also awesome that you have this amazing lineage.

 

HOWEVER, seriously folks, teach EVERYONE the basics, the principals, the stuff that actually makes it WORK!

 

Because if you don't, when your students go train with others, and the new teacher says "OK so you know the standard posture, we can skip over that as it is your first class", and the student looks confused and says that hasn't been covered before.... it makes you look bad. Really bad. I don't mean that the student doesn't have good posture, I mean as in have never heard of feet about shoulder width apart pointing forward and/or tailbone under and/or head/neck up straight and etc. (varies a tiny bit by path), mingmen out, tongue to the roof of the mouth (seriously, some of you guys skip that bit, wtf?), anus and/or perinium and/or genitals tensed a bit (or a lot, dep on path)... some of you folks skipped ALL that?! This is first class, or at least first few classes sort of stuff! Not skip it during an entire 4 month course, or a bunch of several day long workshops. Seriously, what were you thinking? You really honestly think having the student stand there however and wave their arms about a bit is considered qigong? You think that random posture and no structure = martial arts?!

 

Or how about famous Bagua teachers who call walking about in a circle just as one is walking down the street circle walking?! Oh sure it's difficult as hell, especially for new folks, but there is a lot more to it than just wandering around in a circle! Such as that posture bit mentioned above. Structure. Where to power from, and etc.

 

Yes, yes I know, not every student is your disciple, or even necessarily good at it. That is irrelevant, sometimes the "worst" students end up being the best in the long run simply because they practice more. Also even for someone who doesn't practice much, correct practice will help their health at the very least. Perhaps you think "oh they won't understand it in the first year or two". Yeah whatever, try anyways, give them something to work on, something which should be taught from day one so they don't end up with bad habits, bad practice, qi deviations or other ill affects, or perhaps just make your teaching and you look bad.

 

Famous teachers, I feel you should take your art and your teaching more seriously.

 

Your students deserve it. The path deserves it. There has already been enough lost over the centuries; we don't need huge gaping holes in the fundamentals to completely destroy the art all together!

 

On a side note, fortunately every single teacher I have ever trained with (accept one, which I only attended a few classes with), covered the essentials very early on.

 

Yes this is all true, yes these are actual experiences, yes I mean more than one famous teacher.

 

 

This has been a big problem in the past...

 

When you have hardcore dedicated students looking for good teaching and then you find a teacher who only wants to teach a little info.

 

There was one teacher on here who was an ex taobum who confessed to me in private that he doesnt even teach his students the real stuff....

 

If just made me sick. Either teach or dont teach accep or dont accept do or dont do but dont pass on bs.

 

When teachers dont pass on basic info likes herbs for the training your lineage and so on guess what students leave....

 

Students come and students go especially if the teacher is doing it for a living but that shouldnt hinder the passing on of the art.

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

Name names!

 

I live in London, UK.

 

But I'm no teacher.

 

I'm just an old man with a limp and a stick.

 

And mental health problems, ta boot!

 

xxx.

...

Edited April 28, 2014 by Captain Mar-Vell

[Unseen_Abilities]

My art is now my life - so many people are never taught the fundamental principles of the art of life.

 

That is why I liked your post.

[kevin_wallbridge]

BKA, LSY?

[Nungali]

My first teacher used to walk around me and wack things he didnt like the look of , kick my leg and put me off balance and then; "No Good!" and sometimes ... "Good!" <nod>

 

Years later another teacher kept telling me one of my elbows was sticking out too much when using bokken ... eventually this frustrated me so one day I said "Well ? ? ? Hit it then!" ... it only took a couple - now it is automatic . Are people getting softer nowadays and that effects things ... like; offer the people what they want ... to get students.

 

I know I had sooo many people opt out that said they wanted to learn off me but didnt want to learn basics (no, I wasnt hitting them to learn quickly ) .

[soaring crane]

The biggest turnoff for me is the letter R in a circle. It's a branding symbol of insecurity and I don't want to learn anything from an insecure person.

 

The next thing is repackaged mainstream information, usually labeled with three words, always capitalized, and followed by the R in the circle.

[Bearded Dragon]

I did some straight line mud walking for a while. The fundamentals alone were fkn awesome. I don't know why you'd want to skip them. The suction cup effect from the steps was directly effecting my ldt in a way I had not felt before. I think it's almost pointless without trying to achieve proper connection.

[doc benway]

It's awesome and all that you have written books, are world famous, led workshops and classes with thousands of people and such. Also awesome that you have this amazing lineage.

 

HOWEVER, seriously folks, teach EVERYONE the basics, the principals, the stuff that actually makes it WORK!

 

Because if you don't, when your students go train with others, and the new teacher says "OK so you know the standard posture, we can skip over that as it is your first class", and the student looks confused and says that hasn't been covered before.... it makes you look bad. Really bad. I don't mean that the student doesn't have good posture, I mean as in have never heard of feet about shoulder width apart pointing forward and/or tailbone under and/or head/neck up straight and etc. (varies a tiny bit by path), mingmen out, tongue to the roof of the mouth (seriously, some of you guys skip that bit, wtf?), anus and/or perinium and/or genitals tensed a bit (or a lot, dep on path)... some of you folks skipped ALL that?! This is first class, or at least first few classes sort of stuff! Not skip it during an entire 4 month course, or a bunch of several day long workshops. Seriously, what were you thinking? You really honestly think having the student stand there however and wave their arms about a bit is considered qigong? You think that random posture and no structure = martial arts?!

 

Or how about famous Bagua teachers who call walking about in a circle just as one is walking down the street circle walking?! Oh sure it's difficult as hell, especially for new folks, but there is a lot more to it than just wandering around in a circle! Such as that posture bit mentioned above. Structure. Where to power from, and etc.

 

Yes, yes I know, not every student is your disciple, or even necessarily good at it. That is irrelevant, sometimes the "worst" students end up being the best in the long run simply because they practice more. Also even for someone who doesn't practice much, correct practice will help their health at the very least. Perhaps you think "oh they won't understand it in the first year or two". Yeah whatever, try anyways, give them something to work on, something which should be taught from day one so they don't end up with bad habits, bad practice, qi deviations or other ill affects, or perhaps just make your teaching and you look bad.

 

Famous teachers, I feel you should take your art and your teaching more seriously.

 

Your students deserve it. The path deserves it. There has already been enough lost over the centuries; we don't need huge gaping holes in the fundamentals to completely destroy the art all together!

 

On a side note, fortunately every single teacher I have ever trained with (accept one, which I only attended a few classes with), covered the essentials very early on.

 

Yes this is all true, yes these are actual experiences, yes I mean more than one famous teacher.

 

Just because you've written books, produced DVDs, and put on seminars does not mean you are a good martial artist, let alone a good teacher.

[BaguaKicksAss]

Just because you've written books, produced DVDs, and put on seminars does not mean you are a good martial artist, let alone a good teacher.

 

Unfortunately most of the population thinks otherwise and falls for it.

 

I have most often found that those who no one has heard of, who will never write a book, and who are not well known, can be the best teachers/know the most. Not 100% of the time, but enough that I have told people (in a nice way of course) "well the only real concern I have with training under you is that you are pretty well known and have produced a few books, I have always found in the past, most especially with magic, that the more famous someone is, the less they actually know and the less talent they have". I never mean it in a rude way, but it actually has been a concern in the past lol. Not sure how much it carries over with qigong and martial arts, but with magic... I have yet to see a famous author with even half as much power/knowledge as the unheard of folks where word just quietly gets around, and they want nothing to do with all that crap.

 

Of course there is always exceptions to any rule...

[thamosh]

Just because you've written books, produced DVDs, and put on seminars does not mean you are a good martial artist, let alone a good teacher.

 

 

A fucking men.

 

I dont care how many books or dvds a teacher makes it could be all bs.

 

Until you speak wit the teacher and his teacher then you might find out whats really going on.

 

Plus whats put in books and dvds isnt the real shit anyways.... and it was never intended to be.

 

Its just something to get the potential student to become a student in real life and learn the real art. Thats why the teacher is selling his book on amazon for $12.....

 

Then theres the case of some of these "authors" who write books didnt learn the full or correct method themselves. Then you have other authors who then in turn make other books from the book they read spreading more mis info.

 

Then you have people who read a freaking book on amazon and without talking to the teacher or anything like that now they offer lessons on what they learnt from the book on amazon!!!

 

 

 

Quoted from here http://www.sanszu.com/meditation.html

 

"Lung Men Pai (龍門派) "Ling Bao Tong Zhi Neng Nei Kung Shu"

The Lung Men Pai system of Nei Kung is in fact the origins of the Nei Jia art of Baguazhang. The internal Nei Kung training methods of authentic Bagua come directly from the Lung Men Pai or "Dragon Gate Sect." This sect still teaches the complete system, through two different lines, most famously through Shifu Wang, Li-Ping."

 

 

Pretty crazy right....

Edited April 28, 2014 by thamosh

[joeblast]

I did some straight line mud walking for a while. The fundamentals alone were fkn awesome. I don't know why you'd want to skip them. The suction cup effect from the steps was directly effecting my ldt in a way I had not felt before. I think it's almost pointless without trying to achieve proper connection.

yeahyeah, was pleasantly surprised what the xingyi stuff lin showed me did to my circle walking

[doc benway]

Because if you don't, when your students go train with others, and the new teacher says "OK so you know the standard posture, we can skip over that as it is your first class", and the student looks confused and says that hasn't been covered before.... it makes you look bad. Really bad. I don't mean that the student doesn't have good posture, I mean as in have never heard of feet about shoulder width apart pointing forward and/or tailbone under and/or head/neck up straight and etc. (varies a tiny bit by path), mingmen out, tongue to the roof of the mouth (seriously, some of you guys skip that bit, wtf?), anus and/or perinium and/or genitals tensed a bit (or a lot, dep on path)... some of you folks skipped ALL that?!

 

One additional comment - sometimes it's the student.

I've had some students that just don't seem to take in information that is offered.

And I'm talking about multiple lessons with a variety of instructors over time.

And they still look at you, clueless, and you know they'd be better off in a yoga or qigong class where they can simply follow the leader forever...

Not saying that was the case with this particular situation but its a factor...

[BaguaKicksAss]

One additional comment - sometimes it's the student.

I've had some students that just don't seem to take in information that is offered.

And I'm talking about multiple lessons with a variety of instructors over time.

And they still look at you, clueless, and you know they'd be better off in a yoga or qigong class where they can simply follow the leader forever...

Not saying that was the case with this particular situation but its a factor...

 

Yep there are some of those, but I would figure that when they came to train with me, they still wouldn't get it, or remember later, or not be good at it, or whatever..... (this has happened multiple times btw).

[JessOBrien]

I've had teachers famous and not famous. All had their faults.

When I teach I find it really hard not to overwhelm people. I want to cover it all and help them see the things that took me years to realize.

But it's really amazing how little body awareness people show up with at first.

Just lining up the feet straight to stand can take weeks. Or months. Or never.

As time has gone by I've reduced the amount of info I introduce. Slower seems to be better.

On the other hand I needed to hear it a few hundred times before it sank in.

Ultimately if they don't train in between classes and make it their own,

they'll never get anywhere. Period.

And if you DO train on your own, things will become clear as time goes on and it will reveal itself, sooner or later.

Those are the only two paths.

[BaguaKicksAss]

The fundamentals of posture, tongue to the roof of the mouth, and clench the nether regions most definitely at least need to be repeated a few times during a 3-4 month class, IMO, no matter how little they are getting it, or how little they practice. Though I love the ones who do practice, a lot .

[soaring crane]

The body awareness is a very big issue. I've actually lifted my shirt to show people where my navel is and instructed them to use their hands to actively locate their own, so that they could close by placing the hands atop one another, *on the abdomen below the belly button*.

 

If I only say it, then some people will inevitably have their hands on the upper stomach or lower chest. Even if I repeat it five times.

[Nungali]

A fucking men.

 

I dont care how many books or dvds a teacher makes it could be all bs.

 

Until you speak wit the teacher and his teacher then you might find out whats really going on.

 

Plus whats put in books and dvds isnt the real shit anyways.... and it was never intended to be.

 

Its just something to get the potential student to become a student in real life and learn the real art. Thats why the teacher is selling his book on amazon for $12.....

 

Then theres the case of some of these "authors" who write books didnt learn the full or correct method themselves. Then you have other authors who then in turn make other books from the book they read spreading more mis info.

 

Then you have people who read a freaking book on amazon and without talking to the teacher or anything like that now they offer lessons on what they learnt from the book on amazon!!!

 

 

 

Quoted from here http://www.sanszu.com/meditation.html

 

"Lung Men Pai (龍門派) "Ling Bao Tong Zhi Neng Nei Kung Shu"

The Lung Men Pai system of Nei Kung is in fact the origins of the Nei Jia art of Baguazhang. The internal Nei Kung training methods of authentic Bagua come directly from the Lung Men Pai or "Dragon Gate Sect." This sect still teaches the complete system, through two different lines, most famously through Shifu Wang, Li-Ping."

 

 

Pretty crazy right....

 

"Have I got a sash for you! All types, all colours, cheap prices, come on down and see Shifu Shifty today!

[Nungali]

I've had teachers famous and not famous. All had their faults.

When I teach I find it really hard not to overwhelm people. I want to cover it all and help them see the things that took me years to realize.

But it's really amazing how little body awareness people show up with at first.

 

Aaaaamen!!!!!!

 

That blew me away ! I had no idea:

 

Me: " No ... this time, as you move forward, instead of striking with the hand on the same side as the front leg, strike with the other hand ... no the other hand ... like this ... no, step forward with your left foot and strike with your right hand ... yeah, thats it... sort of, now again ... no, other side ... yeah but opposite sides; hand and foot. Nah ... look like this ..... now you . ..... ummmm, just stop for a sec ... walk around look out the window, maybe I confused you by getting you before to strike with the same hand and foot forward ....... now try again ... no, thats worse ?

 

Look, its just the normal movement you make when walking ... yes, it is ! Your left foot goes out and your right arm swings forward .. no ... look , just practice walking up and down and gradually turn your arm swing into a punch ... no ... walk up and down normally .... ummm ... just practice normal walking up and down for a bit .

 

( sheeeee - it ! )

 

 

Edited April 28, 2014 by Nungali