Famous Qigong and internal martial arts teachers, you need to seriously up your game!

[Nungali]

The fundamentals of posture, tongue to the roof of the mouth, and clench the nether regions most definitely at least need to be repeated a few times during a 3-4 month class, IMO, no matter how little they are getting it, or how little they practice. Though I love the ones who do practice, a lot .

 

I am sure my latest instructor has started doing things he would have caned me for 3 years ago

[Bearded Dragon]

I am sure my latest instructor has started doing things he would have caned me for 3 years ago

 

You can though. In terms of physical structure you don't need it so much once you have the internal structure. But to get the internal structure it's much easier to set up the physical structure. I think that's where some people go wrong. They just try to copy masters without understanding the full picture. I have been guilty of that.

[BaguaKicksAss]

The body awareness is a very big issue. I've actually lifted my shirt to show people where my navel is and instructed them to use their hands to actively locate their own, so that they could close by placing the hands atop one another, *on the abdomen below the belly button*.

 

If I only say it, then some people will inevitably have their hands on the upper stomach or lower chest. Even if I repeat it five times.

 

Hmmm, I suddenly think it is fortunate that I teach one on one LOL. I can see where they put their hands . I have heard stories from instructors who will be at the front of the class facing away, doing a form, in their mind imagining everyone is following along... then will turn around and realize they are all doing something entirely different LOL.

[BaguaKicksAss]

Aaaaamen!!!!!!

 

That blew me away ! I had no idea:

 

Me: " No ... this time, as you move forward, instead of striking with the hand on the same side as the front leg, strike with the other hand ... no the other hand ... like this ... no, step forward with your left foot and strike with your right hand ... yeah, thats it... sort of, now again ... no, other side ... yeah but opposite sides; hand and foot. Nah ... look like this ..... now you . ..... ummmm, just stop for a sec ... walk around look out the window, maybe I confused you by getting you before to strike with the same hand and foot forward ....... now try again ... no, thats worse ?

 

Look, its just the normal movement you make when walking ... yes, it is ! Your left foot goes out and your right arm swings forward .. no ... look , just practice walking up and down and gradually turn your arm swing into a punch ... no ... walk up and down normally .... ummm ... just practice normal walking up and down for a bit .

 

( sheeeee - it ! )

 

 

 

The "other" right hand .

 

Fortunately as a student, I realized early on that mirroring doesn't work for me, so I would just go stand *beside* the instructor lol. Also fortunately none of them minded or said anything. That mirroring thing still confuses the hell out of me!!

[BaguaKicksAss]

This has been a big problem in the past...

 

When you have hardcore dedicated students looking for good teaching and then you find a teacher who only wants to teach a little info.

 

There was one teacher on here who was an ex taobum who confessed to me in private that he doesnt even teach his students the real stuff....

 

If just made me sick. Either teach or dont teach accep or dont accept do or dont do but dont pass on bs.

 

When teachers dont pass on basic info likes herbs for the training your lineage and so on guess what students leave....

 

Students come and students go especially if the teacher is doing it for a living but that shouldnt hinder the passing on of the art.

 

and even dabblers who aren't dedicated... because maybe later they will be . I always hate to see a teacher only focusing on the most dedicated and talented of students and ignoring the others. Sure I can see why they do it, but perhaps just some more focus and attention instead of ALL the teaching going to those who are best at it.

 

Actually I have nothing whatsoever against not teaching everything and keeping stuff back. However the basics aren't closed door at all. OK so perhaps some fine tuning specific to teach school might be, but not the few standard things everyone (or so I thought until recently) covers... But waiting until a student has been with you awhile, or that you can trust them, or you know they aren't going to run off and teach in their first year of practice, or go and post everything you teach on online forums, or screw themselves up because they aren't ready yet, or don't have the steps before something down... It all makes sense to me. Oh hell even if someone tells me such and such is for that school only, or not to repeat such and such to others; I'm good with that. They are being nice enough to share and teach with me, and they have to trust me somehow.

 

I'm not as sure with martial arts, qigong and neigong, but I can give 100 reasons why only a bit is taught in public or at first with the magical arts. I figure some of the reasons or similar (make sure they are ethical enough to not use the art to go mug old ladies, keep students (and people they teach) out of the asylum, etc.).

[Nungali]

Niharshin (dang! I can never spell that) form 1 - 3 can be done mirror image so you can face the student and they can copy you. Its the only pattern I know that one can do that with.

 

The others, when the teacher faces away from us, he often totally goes off on a tangent in his own world and seems oblivious .... (Nungali leans against a tree and has a smoke until they turn around and come back the other way). - Not really, but I have done a totally different pattern and he didnt notice ... yes, I can 'muck -up' at training .... some seem outraged at that (teacher caught me once and laughed , so .... ) someone asked me how I would feel about that if they did it when I was teaching?

 

1. If I was so slack to have drifted off like that ... serves me right.

 

2. If I catch you you will help me 'demonstrate' the next technique or

 

3. "Since .... knows the pattern so well, he is now going to demonstrate its correct execution in front of the class .

 

Every class should have at least one time when everyone bursts out laughing IMO ... including the teacher.

[GrandmasterP]

 

and even dabblers who aren't dedicated... because maybe later they will be . I always hate to see a teacher only focusing on the most dedicated and talented of students and ignoring the others. Sure I can see why they do it, but perhaps just some more focus and attention instead of ALL the teaching going to those who are best at it.

 

Actually I have nothing whatsoever against not teaching everything and keeping stuff back. However the basics aren't closed door at all. OK so perhaps some fine tuning specific to teach school might be, but not the few standard things everyone (or so I thought until recently) covers... But waiting until a student has been with you awhile, or that you can trust them, or you know they aren't going to run off and teach in their first year of practice, or go and post everything you teach on online forums, or screw themselves up because they aren't ready yet, or don't have the steps before something down... It all makes sense to me. Oh hell even if someone tells me such and such is for that school only, or not to repeat such and such to others; I'm good with that. They are being nice enough to share and teach with me, and they have to trust me somehow.

 

I'm not as sure with martial arts, qigong and neigong, but I can give 100 reasons why only a bit is taught in public or at first with the magical arts. I figure some of the reasons or similar (make sure they are ethical enough to not use the art to go mug old ladies, keep students (and people they teach) out of the asylum, etc.).

+1 there BKA

One of the lads over on MA posted this a while back...

 

"There are a lot of people teaching with little real understanding. They parrot the motions, they do what they did... but they don't understand why they had to do it as a student. Often, I think this leads to a loss of fundamentals and an over-focus on fancy and advanced things, on what's "cool" rather than the basics that make everything else work."

 

That's fair comment I reckon.

We are in a time that craves novelty.

There seems to be a need to be forever doing something new...

The 'next level' or the 'next belt' and maybe some teachers are scared that if they stick to the basics for too long then they'll lose students.

For sure attention spans are shorter nowadays than once they were and it's hard to blame a teacher who is depending on students for her or his living not to succumb and give the students what they want sometimes at the expense of what they 'need'.

I'm that age now though where boredom is welcomed and the familiar is comfortable so maybe that colours my views somewhat.

All we do is the standing form Baduanjin and, to me; that is tremendously complex.

Been at it for years now, each and every day and not even begun to 'get' it yet.

One cultivates in hopes.

To some folks what we teach at the centre and it is all I teach and all that I do - it's just a 'warm up' for the good stuff.

All respect to those who cultivate the complex but, for me; that old Eight Strands of Silk Brocade ( as we term it) has infinite complexity, subtlety and mystery.

That said I'm no expert at it - yet.

Maybe one day.

Edited April 28, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[BaguaKicksAss]

Niharshin (dang! I can never spell that) form 1 - 3 can be done mirror image so you can face the student and they can copy you. Its the only pattern I know that one can do that with.

 

The others, when the teacher faces away from us, he often totally goes off on a tangent in his own world and seems oblivious .... (Nungali leans against a tree and has a smoke until they turn around and come back the other way). - Not really, but I have done a totally different pattern and he didnt notice ... yes, I can 'muck -up' at training .... some seem outraged at that (teacher caught me once and laughed , so .... ) someone asked me how I would feel about that if they did it when I was teaching?

 

1. If I was so slack to have drifted off like that ... serves me right.

 

2. If I catch you you will help me 'demonstrate' the next technique or

 

3. "Since .... knows the pattern so well, he is now going to demonstrate its correct execution in front of the class .

 

Every class should have at least one time when everyone bursts out laughing IMO ... including the teacher.

 

Even when the teacher has learned the form in reverse and does it facing us, and we mirror and do the same.... I get confused lol No idea why (well I am dyslexic, but still). Did I mention all of my teachers have been extremely patient?!

 

Ha, any of them ask you to teach the class your new technique? You just like to test and see if your teacher has a good sense of humor or not.... .

[thamosh]

and even dabblers who aren't dedicated... because maybe later they will be . I always hate to see a teacher only focusing on the most dedicated and talented of students and ignoring the others. Sure I can see why they do it, but perhaps just some more focus and attention instead of ALL the teaching going to those who are best at it.

 

Actually I have nothing whatsoever against not teaching everything and keeping stuff back. However the basics aren't closed door at all. OK so perhaps some fine tuning specific to teach school might be, but not the few standard things everyone (or so I thought until recently) covers... But waiting until a student has been with you awhile, or that you can trust them, or you know they aren't going to run off and teach in their first year of practice, or go and post everything you teach on online forums, or screw themselves up because they aren't ready yet, or don't have the steps before something down... It all makes sense to me. Oh hell even if someone tells me such and such is for that school only, or not to repeat such and such to others; I'm good with that. They are being nice enough to share and teach with me, and they have to trust me somehow.

 

I'm not as sure with martial arts, qigong and neigong, but I can give 100 reasons why only a bit is taught in public or at first with the magical arts. I figure some of the reasons or similar (make sure they are ethical enough to not use the art to go mug old ladies, keep students (and people they teach) out of the asylum, etc.).

 

 

Well some has to be held back but the basics shouldnt be held back.

 

When a student is accepted he should be taught the herbs the lineage given an empowerment and taught about the history of the school or sect. Then taught the complete basics for what is needed to advance.

 

For the opposite is a student who knows nothing of the sect the lineage the herbs or the basics needed to advance and the dishonor of the instructor is exposed....

 

So many fall out to the way side and never make it....There are secrets in kung fu and kung fu sects.

 

I was on the phone with my sifu today who was telling me about a kicking form for wing chun.

 

And breathing while stretching and a stretching lineament.

 

An a bunch of other stuff.

 

If you change ship too many times you never make it to the good stuff.

[BaguaKicksAss]

Well some has to be held back but the basics shouldnt be held back.

 

When a student is accepted he should be taught the herbs the lineage given an empowerment and taught about the history of the school or sect. Then taught the complete basics for what is needed to advance.

 

For the opposite is a student who knows nothing of the sect the lineage the herbs or the basics needed to advance and the dishonor of the instructor is exposed....

 

So many fall out to the way side and never make it....There are secrets in kung fu and kung fu sects.

 

I was on the phone with my sifu today who was telling me about a kicking form for wing chun.

 

And breathing while stretching and a stretching lineament.

 

An a bunch of other stuff.

 

If you change ship too many times you never make it to the good stuff.

 

How soon though? Many teachers have the argument that most quit within the first few months, then most of the rest within 2 years...

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

Never.

 

Say never.

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/34638-famous-qigong-and-internal-martial-arts-teachers-you-need-to-seriously-up-your-game/page-2#entry544006

 

Dat waz da funniest ting i ever herd!

...

Edited April 29, 2014 by Captain Mar-Vell

[tendou]

You mean no one ever test those MA teachers?

 

In some parts of the world, anytime you open a school or even starts teaching or be seen practising, people will come and test you. They maybe practitioner of other MA, professional fighter or Thai Boxer, even hooligans.

 

Usually no holds barred fighting with no rules.

 

You lose, you close shop.

[thamosh]

How soon though? Many teachers have the argument that most quit within the first few months, then most of the rest within 2 years...

 

Well kung fu came from shaolin which is a buddhist temple.

 

When the buddha taught he taught completely. There is or was no bs or incomplete teachings of the buddha...

 

Sifus should follow suit.

 

To be the transmitter of an authentic art means something.

 

When the sifu comes along your days of buying amazon books and so on is over for you have a teacher now and have been taken off the dabbler's hamster wheel.

 

 

To answer your question the sifu of the school should give these basics listed in my last post from the beginning so you stay healthy and have honor and pride in your school and so you know where you stand.

[Ya Mu]

One additional comment - sometimes it's the student.

I've had some students that just don't seem to take in information that is offered.

And I'm talking about multiple lessons with a variety of instructors over time.

And they still look at you, clueless, and you know they'd be better off in a yoga or qigong class where they can simply follow the leader forever...

Not saying that was the case with this particular situation but its a factor...

HA HA

Yeah, sometimes it just doesn't sink in. A few weeks ago one student was telling me about another student who asked or rather told him that he was excited cause he just read in a book that a person should do xxxx with the energy when doing this one particular projection. The student telling me this said he looked at the guy really funny and said, you know, I was there when Michael told you that same exact thing at least 20 times. huh!

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

 

Well some has to be held back but the basics shouldnt be held back.

 

When a student is accepted he should be taught the herbs the lineage given an empowerment and taught about the history of the school or sect. Then taught the complete basics for what is needed to advance.

 

For the opposite is a student who knows nothing of the sect the lineage the herbs or the basics needed to advance and the dishonor of the instructor is exposed....

 

So many fall out to the way side and never make it....There are secrets in kung fu and kung fu sects.

 

I was on the phone with my sifu today who was telling me about a kicking form for wing chun.

 

And breathing while stretching and a stretching lineament.

 

An a bunch of other stuff.

 

If you change ship too many times you never make it to the good stuff.

...

 

 

 

 

 

...

Edited April 29, 2014 by Captain Mar-Vell

[Friend]

Actually when one exercise complex things is to realize the simplicity in complex

and the complex in simplicity.

As I exercise still I see more and more the essence the form teach, the formless part

which can be inherited to other forms

without need to pay attention as it becomes ones second nature

and expressed in daily life.

 

Understanding an essence is extremly valuable in my eyes

because when put it in seemingly boring and useless,

low forms may openening one to new understanding and as I feel feeling a bit amazed everytime

I come to conclusion that I have underestimated a simple exercise and how less attentive and awareness

one has to see this ..... simple truth.

- mostly it is one little difference that cause a big difference-

 

Most times an exercise is like a treasure box with different keyholes.

Because of one rarely change ones view one not see only those from ones perspective.

 

Expirienced practitioner will see more and more by his own exercise how important the basic are

and how complex the simple things become by understanding.

The student only knows it as information even if it is technique and not by realisation.

This makes the difference between someone who has understood and someone who just have and can do.

 

The one who understands will may take lots of time to explain one simple movement because

of his refined attention which show him subtle and different permutation as well variation

and correction, testing and refinement while showing the orthodox method as well the unorthodox way

to perfom it. As well preserving the original teaching as well putting.... one line of comment below

it as it was done by the kings for I Ching in their wisdom to preserve the orignal teachings but still

expressing their understanding and findings of their own wisdom.

 

Mastery comes by being able to discover the truth oneself without need of someone to tell.

This how the refinements came in some generation while others where just to preserve the formal

status quo of a lineage who only receive the formal knowledge from the particular generation.

 

A dedicated and intelligent student is comfortable to teach as it was said that a good person can be easily taught

to being good but a bad person to turn to good is quite an accomplishment which requires work.

[Nungali]

Even when the teacher has learned the form in reverse and does it facing us, and we mirror and do the same.... I get confused lol No idea why (well I am dyslexic, but still). Did I mention all of my teachers have been extremely patient?!

 

Ha, any of them ask you to teach the class your new technique? You just like to test and see if your teacher has a good sense of humor or not.... .

 

I guess its a 'higher order' of forgetting how one's arms naturally swing. Sometimes I get confused executing techniques in form or Bunkai ... sometimes if someone 'rushes at me' it comes back ... little blockages in there at times.

 

Me teach ? Teacher would avoid that (unless he went away ... but often they would just fold and not train - those guys would fold faster then superman on laundry day ... a bit of rain ... school holidays ... ... I only used to do it behind his back when people just could not learn a pattern or technique from him or we wanted to go beyond the box ... once he talked about incorporating my sword techniques he didnt know into the club - but he wanted me to teach him in private and then him teach them in a class (that I was paying him to go to) ... it gets confusing at times . I am glad I was never trying to make a living out of it.

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

Up my game?

 

I'm at the very Zenith of mine.

 

I'm top of the mountain.

 

Para Mount.

 

I don't need no fookin' parachute!

 

ha ha ha!

 

ps turn it up but keep it quiet. Mum's the word \me taps nose conspiratorially...

...

Edited April 29, 2014 by Captain Mar-Vell

[soaring crane]

Aaaaamen!!!!!!

 

Look, its just the normal movement you make when walking ... yes, it is ! Your left foot goes out and your right arm swings forward .. no ... look , just practice walking up and down and gradually turn your arm swing into a punch ... no ... walk up and down normally .... ummm ... just practice normal walking up and down for a bit .

 

 

Wow, it's like you channeled that from one of my qigong walking lessons.

 

We need a forum where teachers can write anecdotes.

[Brian]

HA HA

Yeah, sometimes it just doesn't sink in. A few weeks ago one student was telling me about another student who asked or rather told him that he was excited cause he just read in a book that a person should do xxxx with the energy when doing this one particular projection. The student telling me this said he looked at the guy really funny and said, you know, I was there when Michael told you that same exact thing at least 20 times. huh!

Sometimes we hear without listening. (I know I sure do!)

[soaring crane]

A woman in my 'Oma Group' (a pretty large group of mostly retired, elderly ladies) actually said today 'Oh, I think it's easier to stand on one leg if you center your weight on on the supporting leg'.

 

I couldn't believe it.

 

I literally (but lovingly) said to her, 'Helga, I've said that exact same thing, plus worked with you all individually on exactly that technique, 1537 times in this very room over the past four years'.

 

We all got a good laugh out of it (but I thought about this thread in the back of my mind, haha)

[BaguaKicksAss]

I think this thread is turning into "Students you need to seriously up your game"

 

So most folks that I teach, fully get it, at least intellectually that some things are really important and should be focused on. However others argue, or say they would just prefer some forms. It is unfortunately difficult to get folks to focus on the beginning exercises (which are the most important really, at least in this system). Some prefer forms though, since well forms are kinda more fun .

 

Also as mentioned above, that at home practice thing, that is really important too. Means you get shown more awesome stuff next class.

 

And pretty please, don't tell me how your last school did it, because we do do it a little differently, and I'm pretty sure there are good reasons for each and every angle, that I can't always show you to your satisfaction.

 

Different class types for different folks though I figure, mine for lots of focus on the exercises which work the tendons, different meridians and such. Then some circle walking. The form comes later, 6 months to a year later. Hmmm, I just realized I'm more patient than I thought since that was my timeline as well. (crappy memory, probably took me a year lol). I have taken forms classes, they are fun. I have also taken 90% applications classes, those are fun too. Oh hell nevermind, as long as it's Bagua....

[GrandmasterP]

"After you have practiced for a while, you will realize that it is not possible to make rapid, extraordinary progress.

Even though you try very hard, the progress you make is always little by little.

It is not like going out in a shower in which you know when you get wet. In a fog, you do not know you are getting wet, but as you keep walking you get wet little by little.

If your mind has ideas of progress, you may say, Oh, this pace is terrible!

But actually it is not.

When you get wet in a fog it is very difficult to dry yourself. So there is no need to worry about progress."

( S. Suzuki: Zen Mind, Beginners Mind).

Edited April 29, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Nungali]

Wow, it's like you channeled that from one of my qigong walking lessons. We need a forum where teachers can write anecdotes.

 

Oh yeah man ... channeling

 

Hmmmm .... perhaps if I tried getting them to walk in a circle and do it in stead of up and down the dojo ....

 

DOH! <forehead slap>

[Nungali]

I think this thread is turning into "Students you need to seriously up your game"

 

So most folks that I teach, fully get it, at least intellectually that some things are really important and should be focused on. However others argue, or say they would just prefer some forms. It is unfortunately difficult to get folks to focus on the beginning exercises (which are the most important really, at least in this system). Some prefer forms though, since well forms are kinda more fun .

 

Also as mentioned above, that at home practice thing, that is really important too. Means you get shown more awesome stuff next class.

 

And pretty please, don't tell me how your last school did it, because we do do it a little differently, and I'm pretty sure there are good reasons for each and every angle, that I can't always show you to your satisfaction.

 

Different class types for different folks though I figure, mine for lots of focus on the exercises which work the tendons, different meridians and such. Then some circle walking. The form comes later, 6 months to a year later. Hmmm, I just realized I'm more patient than I thought since that was my timeline as well. (crappy memory, probably took me a year lol). I have taken forms classes, they are fun. I have also taken 90% applications classes, those are fun too. Oh hell nevermind, as long as it's Bagua....

 

Impressive ! What ... are you a Capricorn or something ?