Is There A Spiritual Thesaurus? Multi-spiritual-linguals Wanted! Perennial Philosophy/Perennial Technique.

[Satya]

Perennial Philosophy/Perennial Technique: Spiritual Thesaurus

 

(copied from a different thread I started, as it seemed worthy of it's own)

My vocabulary of terms and practices is pretty much solely western or Indian/Sankrit/Yoga/Tantra, etc. Along those lines, does anyone know of any book, pdf or website (preferably an all in one source) that serves as a sort of spiritual thesaurus between the different traditions/geographical locations? Or a spreadsheet/chart?

I believe/know there is a perennial philosophy (Truth is Truth, right?) and like to think that there's a perennial practice as well (hence the similarities between Self Inquiry/Philosophy systems [Jnana, Zen, Buddhism, Advaita, Gnosis, Sufism] and energy work systems [Yoga, Tantra, Neidan, Taoist, Tibetan, Christian Kabbalah, Kabbalah, Dhikr etc; humans are all built the same, right?]).

If no such document exists then perhaps this would be an interesting project to take up on here/and through other forums.

Part of me that likes to think of universal theory/practice is a bit apprehensive about starting on a new route and coming across potential clashes/dissonances throughout traditions, but I guess this is just ego attachment/fear.

Edited April 26, 2014 by Satya

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

I am a follower of The Perennial Philosophy.

 

I simple uncarved block.

...

 

Man a DAO.

 

...

I study Buddhism.

 

I Neo Platonist, and Neo Pythagorean also.

 

Stoic, Hedonist, and Epicurian I.

 

The Greeks were very great thinkers.

 

Also, I am an adherent of Berkelian Idealism.

 

Truly, Pan Psychism bee my Philo Sophia!

 

Blue and Gold are my true COLOURZ.

 

The Manly Hall knows the true meaning of AXIS MUNDI!

 

Prometheus and Epimetheus both AM i.

 

Fore Thought and After Thought!

 

;0

XXX

 

ps I'm jus' da Ramblin' Rosie Crucian!!!

...

Edited April 29, 2014 by Captain Mar-Vell

[Satya]

Very interesting Captain/Manuel.

A lot of those people/schools are new to me and seem like a good start in the right direction re: Perennial Philosophy, and perhaps Perennial Technique/Terminology.

 

Though, can you, or anyone, recommend any specific books/authors where there's a sort of spiritual thesaurus?

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

I would without hesitation recommend Manly P Hall's The Secret Teachings of All Ages.

 

It is a veritable esoteric encyclopaedia.

 

It is rather dry to plough through though, and is better suited as a sort of reference work.

 

However, I think it still needs proofreading and some editing.

 

The major problem with the work though, is the conspicuous lack of either glossary or index.

...

[Satya]

Funnily enough, I came across that book recently when researching through hermetics, etc.

 

Looks very interesting. Looks epic. And, the closest to a spiritual thesaurus/encyclopaedia so far. Thank you.

 

From a preliminary look at the contents it doesn't appear to (specifically) cover the East much/at all, but, quite an epic work on its own, and the best all in one source I've seen so far. Perhaps there's an eastern equivalent that maybe be merged with this also.

 

Re: proofreading/editing, there seem to be two copies that have been printed from a bad OCR scan and then the one by "Jeremy P Tarcher; New Ed edition" seems not to have that problem, not sure, need to look further.

 

And, yeah, if there's no glossary/index in either copy, then that seems like a massive oversight. Maybe a searchable pdf would partly address this.

[GrandmasterP]

http://www.religionfacts.com/big_religion_chart.htm

 

Found this.

It's a bit basic though.

Edited April 27, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Satya]

http://www.religionfacts.com/big_religion_chart.htm

 

Found this.

It's a bit basic though.

That's the exact format I had in mind, for something that I would put together/want. But, bigger, and more depth.

 

In line with the universality, etc, here are two interesting academic papers comparing Ayurveda and TCM (haven't given a thorough read yet):

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1297513/

 

http://digitalcommons.calpoly.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1105&context=socssp

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

It would be nice to see competent psycho therapy, ayurvedic medicine and traditional chinese medicine more widely available on the NHS.

 

When I first saw a psychiatrist, I told him that I would very much prefer any of these treatment methodologies to the chemical cosh of anti psychotics.

 

All three were refused me, I'm guessing largely on the basis of cost.

 

That is understandable.

 

But I don't suffer from psychosis.

 

It may be the jury is still out on the delusions.

 

Thanks for the link to that chart, GrandmasterP.

 

I approve.

 

XXX

...

Edited April 29, 2014 by Captain Mar-Vell

[GrandmasterP]

+1 on NHS and cost benefits analysis.

The NHS has been throwing money at Mindfulness research.

No complaints here as our institution has benefitted from research and some welcomed mindfulness research funding.

( you can find links to some of that via the link in my sig).

Why?

Cos talking therapies and self- help are ultimately super- cheap compared to most alternative therapeutic interventions.

Mindfulness is really effective where it works but like everything else it doesn't work for everybody everytime.

You could do worse than giving it a go Cap.

You know enough for sure to follow what to do, when and how from the pointers on that website.

MBCT might suit you.

Nothing ventured.....

Edited April 28, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

The NHS has been throwing money at Mindfulness research.

 

Sometimes I get the impression the Grandmaster is laughing at me.

 

But I will certainly continue with my mindfulness practices.

 

I am sure they are highly beneficial.

 

XXX

...

Edited April 29, 2014 by Captain Mar-Vell

[Satya]

This post is off topic with regards to a spiritual thesaurus, but is focused at some of the posts above.

...

It would be nice to see competent psycho therapy, ayurvedic medicine and traditional chinese medicine more widely available on the NHS.

 

When I first saw a psychiatrist, I told him that I would very much prefer any of these treatment methodologies to the chemical cosh of anti psychotics.

 

All three were refused me, I'm guessing largely on the basis of cost.

(Apologies if you know all this already; I don't mean to be condescending, hopefully the info is more beneficial than patronising [hopefully it's not at all patronising]).

 

Though I agree (short-term) cost is an issue in the NHS, I don't think cost would have been the reason here.

 

Only treatments that have been examined and shown to work in multiple randomised controlled trials (RCTs) and then (usually anyway) a meta analysis, are offered on the NHS (you can see what's available on the NHS [on/in NICE guidance] and why it's available [on/in FULL guidance; an extensive review of available research; for example here http://www.nice.org.uk/Search.do?x=0&y=0&searchText=anxiety&newsearch=true to the right of "Anxiety CG113", there's FULL, Quick and standard NICE guidance]). Which, of course, makes sense, we don't want our taxes being spent on treatments that don't work; I could go on a tangent about how SOME treatments don't suit being studied in the multiple participant RCT format, which I believe may theoretically sometimes be the case, but, that's too off tangent (for another thread/day perhaps), and, RCTs are the best that we have in terms of studying efficacy of treatments for everyone.

 

There has to be extensive/thorough evidence before the NHS will fork out for a treatment, and, in terms of TCM and Ayurveda, I don't think the evidence for many specific ailments (including perhaps whatever you went to the Doctor for) is available, yet (though, more is becoming available, for various "alternative" therapies).

 

Psychotherapy (competent psychotherapy) on the other hand, proven psychotherapeutic modalities given by trained individuals, are available on the NHS; however, arguably, this is where cost becomes a problem. Waiting times are long due to not enough therapists being available, due to limited funds.

http://www.infocoponline.es/pdf/040808while.pdf

 

http://www.mind.org.uk/media/280583/We-Need-to-Talk-getting-the-right-therapy-at-the-right-time.pdf

 

http://www.mind.org.uk/media/494424/we-still-need-to-talk_report.pdf

 

http://www.mind.org.uk/media/498974/mind-briefing-on-access-to-talking-therapies.pdf

 

Cos talking therapies and self- help are ultimately super- cheap compared to most alternative therapeutic interventions.

I agree with this (if you mean alternative interventions such as medication). Therapy, in the long term, is more cost effective, compared to medication. The problem is that governments in general don't ever seem to look at/'do' long term, constantly looking at short term solutions, that lead to more problems than solutions, but keep the tax payers 'happy-ish', and show that they've "done their job" in their term, "providing services whilst keeping in the budget" (another tangent I could go off on).

 

There's also/possibly/it is likely that there are financial biases at play. Pharmaceutical manufacturers putting money in the pockets of decision makers. Drug companies (like any economic power) have often been shown to be dodgy, leaving out important data in studies, paying people off .

 

If the government provided more funding for psychotherapy, it might cost a tad more in the short term, but long term costs would soon go down as mental health problems went into and stayed in remission; medication does not fix anything, it simply masks symptoms (though, this DOES allow people to function and then potentially recover [it's their behaviour which helps recovery, enabled by medication, not recovery caused by medication]). For actual recovery, we need WAY MORE psychotherapists/WAY MORE psychotherapy, and other methods that cure/fix the problem/get to the underlying cause and change brain structure/chemistry, for the better of course (such as spiritual practices [iF THEY ARE SHOWN TO LEAD TO RECOVERY AND ADDRESS UNDERLYING PROBLEMS, WHICH IS PART OF WHAT I'M LOOKING INTO ON THIS OTHER THREAD http://thetaobums.com/topic/34642-psychological-issues-and-spiritual-practices-shouldnt-practices-trump-therapymedication/ ]).

 

GrandmasterP: MBCT is an interesting and (relatively) new development indeed. I performed a literature review on MBCT in one of my degrees. Combining therapeutic and mindful principles in a group setting, is potentially, very cost effective.

 

And, Captain: MBCT IS a treatment that's available on the NHS if you're interested (but only for depression; you can check NICE guidelines).

 

Now, back to the spiritual thesaurus.

Edited April 28, 2014 by Satya

[Zhongyongdaoist]

Excellent summary Satya, this discussion belongs in your other thread, where it would be illuminating. I realize that you did not start it, but are trying to get back to topic.

 

Back to topic. I like the idea of a Spiritual Thesaurus, the closest thing to it at this time would be David Allen Hulse's Key of it All, a two volume set which is marred by the usual mistakes that occultists make involving superficial comparisons across cultures. What is needed is a historically nuanced, paradigm sensitive, approach that actually realizes the big differences that separate Renaissance authors like Cornelius Agrippa and the world view in which they wrote, from Aleister Crowley and the world view in which he wrote.

 

It is this lack of context that turns even attempts to compare something as apparently simple as Chinese 'five element' theory with 'Western' 'five element' theory. They break down because the people doing them don't believe that analytical thinking is relevant to 'spiritual truths' and that any vague resemblance goes. Nothing could be further from the truth, but getting people to believe that in a post 'Romantic Revolution' rejection of reason is pretty much impossible.

 

In any case the idea is good, implementing it in a meaningful way will not be easy.

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

Thank you very much for your contributions here, Satya.

 

I can say they are quite helpful to me.

 

You are doing the mentally ill and the entire mental health community, and indeed the UK nation, a service.

 

I shall help as much as I am able.

 

It seems, to me, that you are highly intelligent, and already have a thorough grounding in these matters.

 

I wish you the very best of luck in your endeavours.

 

XXX

...

Edited April 29, 2014 by Captain Mar-Vell

[GrandmasterP]

Not laughing at you Cap.

Apologies if that was the impression given.

That Thesaurus now.

How about posting the relevant row onto that faith group forum and asking them to comment and fill in more info?

So for example the Moslem Row could go to a Moslem site and the Jain row onto a Jain forum and so on.

Then collate what comes back.

Might make for an interesting resource with minimal work required from the researcher beyond some editing and collation.

Edited April 28, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Satya]

This is sort of what I was looking at doing if I couldn't find a pre existing form. Good idea. Now, all we have to do is find decent relevant forums for each tradition.

 

You've actually given me an idea of how to execute this well, thank you.

[Satya]

And, thank you Captain Mar-Vell and Zhongyongdaoist for the kind words and input. Those 'Key of it all' books, together with Manly Hall's book, look like useful resources in all this

[GrandmasterP]

This is sort of what I was looking at doing if I couldn't find a pre existing form. Good idea. Now, all we have to do is find decent relevant forums for each tradition.

 

You've actually given me an idea of how to execute this well, thank you.

 

That would be a useful resource for sure and it could be fun finding those forums.

I was thinking just how basic that chart is.

For example the Buddhism row... I reckon you'd need at least as many rows for Buddhism as there are sub forums over on Dharma Wheel.

Moslems too you'd need Shia, Sunni, maybe Sufi and where would the Ahmadi's fit in.

Main thing is that people on religious forums are usually happy to talk and write about their own path so you'd not be short of free copy.

Good luck with the project if you do decide to go for it.

 

:-)

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

 

Thank you Captain Mar-Vell.

 

And here we have "thank you," number 2.

 

Cheerz Man.

 

XXX

...

Edited April 29, 2014 by Captain Mar-Vell

[forestofclarity]

I've been trying to clarify terms in non-dual traditions here. If anyone has suggestions, let me know.

 

For example, emptiness has different terms depending on the tradition. For example, it can mean nothing, it can mean potentiality, or it can mean the absence of a self depending on the tradition. Consciousness is another one--- the same word in English can mean many different things.

[Satya]

Just a quick question, to anyone who sees this.

 

In Sankrit language Yoga/Tantra traditions, Shiva = Emptiness/Nothingness/Consciousness and Shakti = the emergent Everythingness/Energy from Shiva. The correlation between Yin/Yan and Shiva/Shakti seem a little off. Does anyone know the equivalent Sanskrit terms/references for the deviation of two types of energy into Yin/Yang?

 

I've done a little searching but so far haven't come up with anything conclusive.

[Satya]

I've been trying to clarify terms in non-dual traditions here. If anyone has suggestions, let me know.

 

For example, emptiness has different terms depending on the tradition. For example, it can mean nothing, it can mean potentiality, or it can mean the absence of a self depending on the tradition. Consciousness is another one--- the same word in English can mean many different things.

Haha. I didn't see your post/must of started writing before you posted.

 

Funny 'coincidence'. Both wondering about terms and posting at the same time.

[Satya]

To anyone interested, the book

The Subtle Body: An Encyclopedia of Your Energetic Anatomy

appears to be a good resource for (the non philosophical/conceptual) half of what I'm looking for. Only given it a skim so far, but it appears to cover energetic anatomy according to various traditions. Will review at some point in the distant future when I've had time to give it a thorough look.