depersonalization

[sunchild]

i've read a couple threads on this site of how a practitioner has been suddenly overcome with symptoms of depersonalization stemming from a meditative/spiritual practice.

upon a closer examination of myself and my shortcomings i've seen that i also have been suffering from symptoms commonly attributed to depersonalizaton.

 

my question is. is a form of 'depersonalization' the aim of many spiritual/meditative practices?

 

it seems that there are those who have an adverse reaction to the sudden distancing between themselves/'emotions' and their surroundings, then there are those who openly welcome the effects of the 'depersonalization'.

 

i'm just curious to know what the position of others on this topic.

 

because as of late, i'm content, but i realize how sad i would normally feel- i feel very detached from many things around me. i've watched in slow motion as my personality has been disintegrating along with my relationship with my family, girlfriend and close friends. yesterday my girlfriend deemed our relationship to be too unhealthy to continue. a part of me was very upset but it's like it was frozen somewhere deep within me, i couldn't allow emotions to surface that i wanted. it constantly feels like this cold logic is present in my mind, sometimes it borders on sadness but it is more of a loneliness/emptiness i've never known until recent months. i don't feel like me. and i know that's probably due to egoistic wants, but having that degree of emotional stability amongst other things is a recipe for cognitive dissonance within this american society.

 

i just lost my best friend i've ever had. i'm sad, but i feel so far away from everything.

 

it's like i'm losing everything that made me, me.

 

feel free to move or delete this.

[GrandmasterP]

You're doing it wrong bro.

Stop.

If it's adversely affecting your wellbeing and your every day relationships then whatever it is you are cultivating; it is a bad thing.

Suspect but can't know that you are cultivating alone without a teacher.

That can be a recipe for disaster.

Find a trusted skilled listener and talk it through with her or him.

Doesn't have to be a cultivator on 'our' paths just someone who can listen and lend perspective.

Check out Mindfulness gigs local to you ( there will be one somewhere close for sure).

Cultivation is about wholeness and enjoying not about suffering.

Anyone says different is sick.

Don't get sick.

Hope that helps.

Edited April 27, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[idiot_stimpy]

You don't feel like you, as the you you thought you were was just an idea.

[GrandmasterP]

Yep agreed.

But if that idea was happy and this current idea is miserable then the prior state trumps the latter.

It's all illusion so why not at least accept that and enjoy it for what it is?

Love is ineffable but a tangible product of healthy relationships.

Some of our patented- system and religious merchant chums make a nice living out of inventing dis- ease and then selling a fictive 'cure' to the person they've made feel 'ill'.

Edited April 27, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[idiot_stimpy]

http://youtu.be/3QbRCM5Q8b8

[Rara]

Yes, don't carry on this way!

 

I have been there too but I realised quickly some was a mistake. There are some people that are bad for you...I leant that and having them distanced has only helped me.

 

But close family, if they are good to you especially, need your love. And if the girlfriend was good to you, then poor her for having to put up with you. If she wasn't though, then well, that explains it.

 

I'm being too specific here. Without personality you won't be anything as effective as someone with. Laughter, love and care are the best feelings. Don't lose them!

[3bob]

i've read a couple threads on this site of how a practitioner has been suddenly overcome with symptoms of depersonalization stemming from a meditative/spiritual practice.

upon a closer examination of myself and my shortcomings i've seen that i also have been suffering from symptoms commonly attributed to depersonalizaton.

 

my question is. is a form of 'depersonalization' the aim of many spiritual/meditative practices?

 

it seems that there are those who have an adverse reaction to the sudden distancing between themselves/'emotions' and their surroundings, then there are those who openly welcome the effects of the 'depersonalization'.

 

i'm just curious to know what the position of others on this topic.

 

because as of late, i'm content, but i realize how sad i would normally feel- i feel very detached from many things around me. i've watched in slow motion as my personality has been disintegrating along with my relationship with my family, girlfriend and close friends. yesterday my girlfriend deemed our relationship to be too unhealthy to continue. a part of me was very upset but it's like it was frozen somewhere deep within me, i couldn't allow emotions to surface that i wanted. it constantly feels like this cold logic is present in my mind, sometimes it borders on sadness but it is more of a loneliness/emptiness i've never known until recent months. i don't feel like me. and i know that's probably due to egoistic wants, but having that degree of emotional stability amongst other things is a recipe for cognitive dissonance within this american society.

 

i just lost my best friend i've ever had. i'm sad, but i feel so far away from everything.

 

it's like i'm losing everything that made me, me.

 

feel free to move or delete this.

 

I'd say the ending of egotisic (in one form or another) control of personality is the idea, not the ending of personality or depersonalization per-se since such is obviously a vehicle needed to interact with people and the world at large... thus when our true self controls personality that aspect will not be depersonalized in the way it sounds like you are saying.

 

and it's all reality when the true self is fully in effect through all vehicles.

[Aetherous]

The spiritual paths that aim for a kind of depersonalization, do it in the proper context (Tibetan Buddhism for instance). The way they do it causes a reduction of suffering, which is the entire point...if your suffering is increasing, perhaps due to not being your same old self, this is not the same type of "depersonalization" that they do. Not at all.

They become free of a concept of self, which is tied to negative emotions, making themselves feel more liberated. Depersonalization is actually not becoming free of the self concept...it's just basically not being 'in your element'. "You" feel like you're not "your old self", you could say...that has nothing to do with no-self ideas in Buddhism. It's more akin to what various cultures would call "soul loss".

In other words, Buddhism does not cause depersonalization as we describe it here. It's about something else...contemplations, practices, realizations, which cause less suffering. Depersonalization requires therapy and/or proper practice and understanding of spiritual paths.

For getting back to normal, a simple method that psychiatrists use with good effect is to have relaxing sessions where you kind of meditate on the senses in a pleasurable way. For instance, you have some incense or essential oil that you smell. Listen to some calming music. Eat a fruit really slowly and notice every detail about it, as if seeing it for the first time. Get some light massage. Doing things like this is kind of like telling your spirit that the body is not such a bad place to inhabit, so the spirit comes back in, and you're repersonalized. The mind shuts off when there is pleasure from the senses, so the body is allowed to go back to its normal mode of operation...with your normal personality.

...

Also, it's normal to feel kind of numb or emotionally ineffective right away after a shock, like being dumped. As time passes, you will go through the stages of grief. This frozen feeling is just shock...it might take 10 years to process the break up, like it did for one of my relationships. For most people, it takes 2 years.

Anyway...for the time being, I say treat yourself well.

[Rara]

The spiritual paths that aim for a kind of depersonalization, do it in the proper context (Tibetan Buddhism for instance). The way they do it causes a reduction of suffering, which is the entire point...if your suffering is increasing, perhaps due to not being your same old self, this is not the same type of "depersonalization" that they do. Not at all.

 

They become free of a concept of self, which is tied to negative emotions, making themselves feel more liberated. Depersonalization is actually not becoming free of the self concept...it's just basically not being 'in your element'. "You" feel like you're not "your old self", you could say...that has nothing to do with no-self ideas in Buddhism. It's more akin to what various cultures would call "soul loss".

 

In other words, Buddhism does not cause depersonalization as we describe it here. It's about something else...contemplations, practices, realizations, which cause less suffering. Depersonalization requires therapy and/or proper practice and understanding of spiritual paths.

 

For getting back to normal, a simple method that psychiatrists use with good effect is to have relaxing sessions where you kind of meditate on the senses in a pleasurable way. For instance, you have some incense or essential oil that you smell. Listen to some calming music. Eat a fruit really slowly and notice every detail about it, as if seeing it for the first time. Get some light massage. Doing things like this is kind of like telling your spirit that the body is not such a bad place to inhabit, so the spirit comes back in, and you're repersonalized. The mind shuts off when there is pleasure from the senses, so the body is allowed to go back to its normal mode of operation...with your normal personality.

 

...

 

Also, it's normal to feel kind of numb or emotionally ineffective right away after a shock, like being dumped. As time passes, you will go through the stages of grief. This frozen feeling is just shock...it might take 10 years to process the break up, like it did for one of my relationships. For most people, it takes 2 years.

 

Anyway...for the time being, I say treat yourself well.

To me, it sounded like the OP wasn't able to get too upset about the break up due to the depersonalization. Like the practice had led to apathy more than anything. Hence why I was wondering if she was good to him or not!

 

Also, I am beginning to become a bit concerned why there are so many misinterpetations of Buddhism on the forum...being the "Tao" bums and all. I see more Buddhist terms being flung about carelessly than anything else!

 

Whatever happened to "just being"? Ok, so when we "wake up" to "reality" it is a bit of a shock. So many lose clarity along the way! I just don't get it.

[liminal_luke]

Don´t confuse deteriorating mental health with spiritual progress. (Or vice versa.) The spiritual path is certainly not all roses and puppies, but if your life is getting steadily worse rather than better I´d seek treatment.

 

Liminal

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

I associate the term depersonalisation with zero affect.

 

Emotionlessness.

 

I have never suffered from this.

 

I have suffered from depression of a bleak and apathetic kind, that accompanied some dental work I found stressful.

 

That coincided with my first approach toward Void.

 

But Equanimity is one thing, and zero emotional affect another thing entirely.

...

[sunchild]

To me, it sounded like the OP wasn't able to get too upset about the break up due to the depersonalization. Like the practice had led to apathy more than anything.

 

life is more beautiful to me now, although with an overpowering observer perspective. the whole muted emotions thing, my desire/passion is now a husk, Dreams are gone and i don't dream at night.

 

i'm not sure if we are supposed to enjoy life here anymore

Edited April 27, 2014 by sunchild

[3bob]

I'd say there is some common ground with Buddhism and other "eastern ways or paths", BUT that is about it and trying meld all the so called eastern type teachings into one big happy family does not work, thus I try to leave the Buddhists to their own devices. (and they mostly leave me to my own )

[Rara]

 

she was awful to me in the beginning, mostly stemming from her past relationships and family issues. i just accepted a lot of the negativity- which had a detrimental effect on my self image/world view. i put up with things i know i shouldn't have, but i didn't want to hurt her feelings or end the relationship prematurely.

 

"Be careful when you're trying to fix a broken person because you may cut yourself on their shattered pieces"

 

slowly i can see i took on many of those aspects for myself and left the ones which were serving me well. she slowly came around to making our love more mutual, but just as that was coming into fruition, i could feel myself going to a dark place- maybe where she was prior. for all of the things she'd done, i also did something i regret, it was something i never thought i'd do, then again i was accepting things that i didn't agree with for a length of time. essentially, it feels as though i've fallen from a skyscraper and now, i feel nothing.

 

she is a decent person and i'd never wish anything bad upon her. i love her, but i can't really feel my heart anymore.

it feels like as open as i had been before our relationship, is the extent to which i'm now closed off from the world. it is a fairly stark contrast.

 

life is more beautiful to me now, although with an overpowering observer perspective. the whole muted emotions thing, my desire/passion is now a husk, Dreams are gone and i don't dream at night.

 

i'm not sure if we are supposed to enjoy life here anymore

Ok well you have a choice. You could open up to her about everything that's going on and that you would really appreciate her support in getting through it. Why not? Maybe if things could work, and you were willing to make her a part of fixing it, she would warm up to the idea.

 

You just said you love her. So I would get off this forum and talk about all these things with her, rather than a bunch of guys you haven't met in the flesh.

 

That way, if she is too hurt or whatever and turns you down, at least you know you did your best to salvage it. We won't go away, either way.

 

The other choice is to treat this as a learning curve that makes you realise that had you have decided to at the time, broken up a while ago.

 

But a relationship sometimes takes work.

 

My partner tolerated my anger for years. She should have left me...but she gave me a million chances to change. I hope you can be so lucky

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

But a relationship sometimes takes work.

 

There is nothing more difficult than to live in relationship with one another.

 

But ultimately, that is all we are called upon to do.

...

Edited April 27, 2014 by Captain Mar-Vell

[sunchild]

time to give up.

Edited April 27, 2014 by sunchild

[liminal_luke]

Sunchild,

 

Please don´t give up. There´s help available to you. If something doesn´t work, try something else. I believe you can feel better.

 

Liminal

[SonOfTheGods]

time to give up.

 

Curious, your energy feels "alien", odd.

 

Trying to say this, in a cool way, but

 

If you get high, a lot, the mixing of energy practice and "herbs"- some of them- can exacerbate the negative tendencies

 

Peace

Edited April 28, 2014 by SonOfTheGods

[idiot_stimpy]

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

I'm not sure if we are supposed to enjoy life here anymore.

 

Well i am.

 

Sure.

 

We ARE supposed ta enjoy Life!

 

Datz ALL!

 

Folx.

 

Surrender is never an option.

 

Yet alwayz I bare my breast.

 

There are two sides to every coin.

 

Thus there are two meanings to surrender.

 

It depends upon who X actly is waving the white flag.

 

Dough Nut.

 

XXX

...

Edited April 29, 2014 by Captain Mar-Vell

[johndoe2012]

.

Edited May 15, 2014 by chris d

[johndoe2012]

.

Edited May 15, 2014 by chris d

[idiot_stimpy]

Balance, balance, balance.

 

Neither good nor bad, but in the centre.

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

Balance Ultimate Key.

 

XXX

...

Edited April 29, 2014 by Captain Mar-Vell

[sunchild]

Curious, your energy feels "alien", odd.

 

Trying to say this, in a cool way, but

 

If you get high, a lot, the mixing of energy practice and "herbs"- some of them- can exacerbate the negative tendencies

 

Peace

point taken, although rarely partaken. use of marijuana on average is 1-2 a month, maybe less.

 

just might be an alien.

 

 

...

 

Well i am.

 

Sure.

 

We ARE supposed ta enjoy Life!

still unsure of that sentiment. it seems as though source/creator/tao/yhwh is fairly indifferent to human life as a whole, it's more of a 'business transaction'. we being the means to an end. all very impersonal.

 

 

Balance, balance, balance.

 

Neither good nor bad, but in the centre.

easier when not in the midst of the world/american society

 

throwing out the bathwater for now. taking up contemplative prayer and a better attitude.

 

 

stimpy don't ever call me cypher again.