depersonalization

[sunchild]

PS, if you don't mind, how old are you?

mid twenties.

you know that time of "life" where you should be most "alive". that time when you should be established within society. that time when you should be well on your career path. that time when you should have your own place. that time when you should be exploring your world. that time when you should be meeting new people and learning.

does that answer satisfy?

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

In my mid to late twenties I had no money, no home, no career, no vehicle etc.

 

I had a very modest job working admin in a Hyundai car dealership, even though I had no driver's licence!

 

I did have a PC with internet connection dough.

 

And a nice fiancee whom I lived with.

 

And lotz of books on religion, spirituality, mysticism and philosophy.

 

Turnz out I had all I ever needed.

 

Shame the way the fiancee turned out.

 

You can't have everything.

 

Sometimes you can't have what you want.

 

But you get what you need.

...

Edited April 30, 2014 by Captain Mar-Vell

[sunchild]

Hi Sunchild,

 

This thread was brought to my attention by someone with honest concerns for you. I had to read the entire thread so that I would know the cause of where the discussion is at the present moment.

 

You know what is interesting? Reading the story (your posts as well as the posts from all others), caused me to reflect on Albert Camus' life. A great writer - given credit for that. A great philosopher - not given fair credit for that.

 

At one point in time in his life he was exactly where you were in your opening post. His conclusion: "Life is absurd!" No point in human life. Nothing matters.

 

But, upon reflection he came to the realization that even though life is absurd it is still very much worth living. Very much worth having the experiences of interacting with as much as the rest of creation as possible.

 

 

So you did, with intent, get to the state of being that you are currently in. Yes, I will repeat that. You did it with intent. You wanted to depersonalize your life. Feels shitty, doesn't it?

 

Being a writer has nothing to do with your present moment so we need not talk about that.

 

The (un)spiritual path you followed to get to where you are, I would say, is fucked up. It is my very strong opinion that whenever we deny our emotions we are fucking up. We should Never, Ever, EVER try depersonalizing our life!

 

Chuang Tzu was a very emotional guy. One can tell that just from his writings. No need to have known the man. He loved. He danced. He got lost fishing on the bank of the river and he didn't even have any bait on his hook.

 

I am trying very hard to not pass any judgements here in what I am saying because I don't have enough of "your story" to be able to do that. But what I will say is that if the path you followed has brought you only hardship then you were/are on the wrong path for you (it may be a good path of others).

 

I offer no other advice at the moment beyond what I have already presented.

 

(Song playing here at the moment is, "Don't You Need Somebody to Love?")

 

We all need somebody to love even if it just ourself.

 

Please take the time to look at the causes of the events that brought you where you are now. Then, value judgement. Good or bad?

 

Be well and take care.

thank you Marblehead for the refreshing perspective.

 

you are absolutely correct, this is a situation of my own making.

i'm honestly sick and tired of putting humpty dumpty back together. i am fucking sick and tired of life. oh sure i could work at it and get better, maybe even get over the only woman i loved leaving me or not having anyone to speak to besides the internet, maybe even get my career/life started, but you know what- it'd probably fall the fuck apart all over again and probably worse than it ever has before. fuck it. i don't care. i wish myself a speedy death. i really appreciate your post and the effort/intent behind it though, thank you

 

ps- i don't mind you passing judgement at all, your aim seems fairly sincere. i am a fucked up inept piece of shit with no future

 

i won't bother any of you anymore

[sunchild]

...

In my mid to late twenties I had no money, no home, no career, no vehicle etc.

 

I had a very modest job working admin in a Hyundai car dealership, even though I had no driver's licence!

 

I did have a PC with internet connection dough.

 

And a nice fiancee whom I lived with.

 

And lotz of books on religion, spirituality, mysticism and philosophy.

 

Turnz out I had all I ever needed.

 

Shame the way the fiancee turned out.

 

You can't have everything.

 

Sometimes you can't have what you want.

 

But you get what you need.

...

i really do appreciate you sharing, especially the "sometimes you can't have what you want, but you get what you need" sentiment- it's been a reoccurring theme over the past week for me.

but i don't want to waste you or anyone else's time.

 

honestly, today about 3-4 hours ago i gave up. i have given up. i'm just going to hurt myself. wait for death.

 

you all are outstanding humans, thank you for your help/concern.

[sunchild]

:) :) :)

 

hcum os lla uoy knaht

[Rara]

mid twenties.

you know that time of "life" where you should be most "alive". that time when you should be established within society. that time when you should be well on your career path. that time when you should have your own place. that time when you should be exploring your world. that time when you should be meeting new people and learning.

does that answer satisfy?

It did actually. 21-25 were my darkest years...and those expectations were on top of me also. So you're not alone. Many people are in the same boat...but this passes. Shit hit the fan big time when I was 23...for the first time ever the world was on my shoulders and my family couldn't help me because they were the ones in the wrong. They were at war. Everything I ever depended on and relied on to raise me fucked up and I was alone. At least I thought I was. Holding the grudges, the hate, the anger and the sadness only kept me in this place.

 

The key is to just let go. John C Parkin calls it "fuck it" therapy and he has a very good book. Chuang Tzu might as well have been that madman down the street that no one talked to. But he didn't give a fuck. At least he wasn't lying to himself day in and day out about what he should be doing with his life.

 

So you are bummed out by the fact that you don't fit in to that "society" or that way of being. Don't worry about that! Maybe it's a diffierent friend group you need, or to spend more time with family and cultivate that love. I don't know your background enough to say.

 

Just forget worrying about what happiness is. If I ever get in that mood, I might meditate. Or I might watch WWE ... whatever tickles your fancy.

Edited April 30, 2014 by Rara

[liminal_luke]

Sunchild,

 

Please don´t hurt yourself. It doesn´t really matter what anybody says on here right now. Life always changes. Sometimes fast, sometimes slow....but it changes. You´ve just got to hold on so that when it changes for the better you´ll be around.

 

Luke

[Brian]

Don´t confuse deteriorating mental health with spiritual progress. (Or vice versa.) The spiritual path is certainly not all roses and puppies, but if your life is getting steadily worse rather than better I´d seek treatment.

 

Liminal

QFT (without reading any deeper in the thread first...)

 

EDIT: OK, after reading the rest of the thread, I strengthen my post from a statement to an imploration:

 

sunchild, please talk to a doctor.

Edited April 30, 2014 by Brian

[Aetherous]

i am a fucked up inept piece of shit with no future

 

This only becomes true if you keep saying so.

[Brian]

It did actually. 21-25 were my darkest years...and those expectations were on top of me also. So you're not alone. Many people are in the same boat...but this passes. Shit hit the fan big time when I was 23...for the first time ever the world was on my shoulders and my family couldn't help me because they were the ones in the wrong. They were at war. Everything I ever depended on and relied on to raise me fucked up and I was alone. At least I thought I was. Holding the grudges, the hate, the anger and the sadness only kept me in this place.

 

The key is to just let go. John C Parkin calls it "fuck it" therapy and he has a very good book. Chuang Tzu might as well have been that madman down the street that no one talked to. But he didn't give a fuck. At least he wasn't lying to himself day in and day out about what he should be doing with his life.

 

So you are bummed out by the fact that you don't fit in to that "society" or that way of being. Don't worry about that! Maybe it's a diffierent friend group you need, or to spend more time with family and cultivate that love. I don't know your background enough to say.

 

Just forget worrying about what happiness is. If I ever get in that mood, I might meditate. Or I might watch WWE ... whatever tickles your fancy.

^^^Yeah, me too.

[Rara]

 

This only becomes true if you keep saying so.

I think he got that part.

 

The application is the tough part.

 

I hope he steps up and fights it.

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

 

You all are outstanding humans, thank you for your help/concern.

 

 

You are most welcome.

 

/me bowz.

 

/me bowz to Mr Marblehead and GrandmazterP.

XXX

 

ps i tink datz tank you number tree, butt Dr Who iz counting!!!!!!!!!!!

...

Edited April 30, 2014 by Captain Mar-Vell

[liminal_luke]

mid twenties.

you know that time of "life" where you should be most "alive". that time when you should be established within society. that time when you should be well on your career path. that time when you should have your own place. that time when you should be exploring your world. that time when you should be meeting new people and learning.

does that answer satisfy?

 

Yeah, this is the impression you get from watching movies and absorbing pop culture, but actually it´s a lot of bunk. I won´t say nobody enjoys their twenties. I´m sure some do. Still, statistically speaking, it´s one tough decade. And everybody running around acting like it´s the best time of life--or should be--doesn´t help much.

 

I don´t yet know from personal experience but some wise friends have let me in on a secret. You know what´s the best decade? The sixties. Beyond that is pretty damn awesome too as long as health holds out. I think it has something to do with all those old ladies wearing purple and generally not giving a damn. Good for the soul.

 

If you´re in your twenties and suffering, join the club. A lot of us have been there. Then hold on ´cause it only gets better.

 

Liminal

[Horus]

i don't believe you.

 

so i should so narrowly focus on something that i selfishly desire, to the point where 'the bigger picture' becomes obscured and all that i can see is exploding pixie sticks and unicorns? i guess that's what most people are doing.

 

 

or it could have nothing to do with that.

 

"you are loved"- i believe you are simply projecting onto me, it is all so pointless.. so many people speaking and yet there is rarely, if ever, a genuine conversation taking place

 

i don't need someone attempting to coach me on how to be a more non-functional member of society, i am quite capable of the feat myself.

 

 

when i created a thread about how my writing was affecting my daily life as if i was 'scripting' it. i began to see the depth of this 'illusion' and i quite desperately wanted to return to my past self/mainly my world views and 'personality' of past.

 

i took your comment personally, my mistake. but i would rather you not assault my character with word/thoughtforms bearing such negative connotations, seeing as i do not do so unto you.

 

Hmmmm, your own worst enemy have you become...

 

Homeboy Jedi Martin, break it down for me:

 

Cursed missed opportunities...

Am I part of the cure?

Or am I part of the disease?

 

OOooooohhh! AAAaaaahhh!

Edited April 30, 2014 by Horus

[GrandmasterP]

My call...

Narcissist.

Sure t'be.

Edited April 30, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[sunchild]

seeing my last statements, i don't know why anyone felt the need to comment any further.

 

not "buying into" society won't stop me from having to buy a house, establish a career path/source of income.

 

i like hurting myself because it allows me to feel closer to death than i already am. a more agreeable illusion, ha.

 

you could walk, you could run

set sail to a foreign land

only to be greeted by yourself on the shore

open hands

 

call and label me whatever you'd like,

it couldn't make me care any less about life.

[liminal_luke]

seeing my last statements, i don't know why anyone felt the need to comment any further.

 

Sunchild,

 

My dad committed suicide. Before he did it he threatened to do it, and I knew he was going through a hard time. I could of reached out to him, but we never got along so well, I was mad at him, and I didn´t. I know it´s not my fault, but I´ll always wonder "what if." If I had told him I loved him then would it have made a difference.

 

So now, when people talk about hurting themselves, I speak up. I remind people we can´t know the future. Things that might look hopeless now might not another day. I can´t really influence you much one way or another but this is an internet forum and I can do what people do on internet forums: say my piece.

 

People continue to respond to you because we feel a connection as fellow human beings. Generally speaking, we want to help each other. When someone has a need people naturally want to step in and help. A lot can get in the way of that helping impulse. Sometimes things get all twisted and the help offered doesn´t end up being very helpful. Sometimes people want to help so badly that when their help seems to get rejected they feel powerless and hurt. Still, as human beings we want to connect.

 

And you know what, I think you do too. You say you don´t care, and I´m sure you mean it, yet here you are. You are still reaching out. You´re bothering to feel offended if someone says something you don´t like. That says something. It says you care. You haven´t given up one hundred percent.

 

Come join the rest of us in this imperfect messy world where people treat each other well and poorly and usually both. You belong here so get on the bus.

 

Liminal

[Raynevin]

In some Western traditions, detachment and depersonalization is only an intermediate step. Physical, mental, and emotional mastery frees one from all the "junk" and prepares one for willed self-creation and higher enlightenment, but union with oneness or void is not seen as a desirable endpoint for the existence in the here and now; further cultivating of enthusiasm and self-creating is necessary to make the most of a social life that participates in the world and enjoys it instead of shunning it, so one aims to build new ego masks for the purpose of enjoying life through them, without becoming completely lost in them: the enlightened element being the ability to step back and detach from a mask, to create a new one, to return to the void to ground oneself but also to individuate by intentionally developing the ego , and hopefully to experience the here and now with more joy, enthusiasm, and substance as a result of individuating beyond the shell that resides in oneness with the void.

 

Someone once said that "cultivating enthusiasm" is the most important thing in the path, the highest attainment is to be able to will oneself into joy and to be as awake and curious as a child about all things. That enthusiasm compels genius and makes experience more than just perfunctory.

Edited May 1, 2014 by Raynevin

[Rara]

 

Sunchild,

 

My dad committed suicide. Before he did it he threatened to do it, and I knew he was going through a hard time. I could of reached out to him, but we never got along so well, I was mad at him, and I didn´t. I know it´s not my fault, but I´ll always wonder "what if." If I had told him I loved him then would it have made a difference.

 

So now, when people talk about hurting themselves, I speak up. I remind people we can´t know the future. Things that might look hopeless now might not another day. I can´t really influence you much one way or another but this is an internet forum and I can do what people do on internet forums: say my piece.

 

People continue to respond to you because we feel a connection as fellow human beings. Generally speaking, we want to help each other. When someone has a need people naturally want to step in and help. A lot can get in the way of that helping impulse. Sometimes things get all twisted and the help offered doesn´t end up being very helpful. Sometimes people want to help so badly that when their help seems to get rejected they feel powerless and hurt. Still, as human beings we want to connect.

 

And you know what, I think you do too. You say you don´t care, and I´m sure you mean it, yet here you are. You are still reaching out. You´re bothering to feel offended if someone says something you don´t like. That says something. It says you care. You haven´t given up one hundred percent.

 

Come join the rest of us in this imperfect messy world where people treat each other well and poorly and usually both. You belong here so get on the bus.

 

Liminal

I couldn't have put this better myself.

 

I've never met you Sunchild, but I see myself from two years ago in you. If only I could have stamped the pain out quicker, I would have saved myself a lot of time and stress.

 

So I see immediately what is going on in your mind...and all I can say is that you're stronger than this.

 

There is you, and there is your thoughts. You are not your thoughts...so why will you let yourself be ruled by them?

 

Be a warrior my friend.

[Rara]

seeing my last statements, i don't know why anyone felt the need to comment any further.

 

not "buying into" society won't stop me from having to buy a house, establish a career path/source of income.

 

i like hurting myself because it allows me to feel closer to death than i already am. a more agreeable illusion, ha.

 

you could walk, you could run

set sail to a foreign land

only to be greeted by yourself on the shore

open hands

 

call and label me whatever you'd like,

it couldn't make me care any less about life.

I'm almost 27...so maybe a year or two older? Still no car, or house of my own, an up and down freelance entertainment career, still figuring out what the hell to do for the next 30 years. Family doesn't talk to each other and I probably come to TTB daily because I still feel a bit lost. Maybe a bit lonely. Maybe no one in my area can relate to things like people on this forum can.

 

A good friend of mine is 30 this year. Renting, going bald, only works 29 hours a week, no girlfriend, no car and plays way too many computer games. Bad relationship with two of his brothers and is constantly on the receiving end of nagging from his dad about sorting his life out.

 

I could go on forever, really I could. Point is, like liminal says, join the club. You could probably help us out a bit too. Might make you feel better...could be your calling. Who knows?

Edited May 1, 2014 by Rara

[3bob]

Pardon me for suddenly dropping by but I'd say don't confuse death and hell with each other, death normally comes to the flesh sooner or later and is part of the natural cycle that is joined to life... hell can come to the mind and soul during life or death and is not avoided or lessened by death in any way; obviously certain levels or kinds of violence will cause death but they will not bring rest; further, various forms of inflicted and or self-inflicted violence will bring hellish states which means more torment and greater types of pain and anguish all of which are harder to deal with while being "dead" since there is no escape from same in death. Such hellish states or un-doings have to be guarded against while we try to live a noble life on the true-and-fair-Mother Earth. (which doesn't mean things are easy here although there are far more opportunities and chances to work things out compared to being crushed and buried "alive" in the hell realms for who knows how long...)

Btw, I've verified this just as anyone else can - but I wouldn't suggest doing so right now, better to give thanks to the Earth Soul and her sacrifice so that we may all walk right

[Marblehead]

seeing my last statements, i don't know why anyone felt the need to comment any further.

Well, I did shut up after I said what I needed to say.

[sunchild]

Btw, I've verified this just as anyone else can - but I wouldn't suggest doing so right now, better to give thanks to the Earth Soul and her sacrifice so that we may all walk right

you're very smart and articulate.

 

i don't see why i would/should be thankful for something i simply do not want. something i haven't entirely wanted for a while. "her sacrifice", if anything for the most part we as a race loot and plunder her with not so much as a passing sense of remorse or guilt- just a self-righteous feeling of entitlement. hence her condition.

 

thank you for illustrating the bigger picture to me, so it won't be a surprise.

[sunchild]

In some Western traditions, detachment and depersonalization is only an intermediate step. Physical, mental, and emotional mastery frees one from all the "junk" and prepares one for willed self-creation and higher enlightenment, but union with oneness or void is not seen as a desirable endpoint for the existence in the here and now; further cultivating of enthusiasm and self-creating is necessary to make the most of a social life that participates in the world and enjoys it instead of shunning it, so one aims to build new ego masks for the purpose of enjoying life through them, without becoming completely lost in them: the enlightened element being the ability to step back and detach from a mask, to create a new one, to return to the void to ground oneself but also to individuate by intentionally developing the ego , and hopefully to experience the here and now with more joy, enthusiasm, and substance as a result of individuating beyond the shell that resides in oneness with the void.

"egoic masks". a magician told me about this before. he said it was an important aspect of his artistic process.

 

thank you

[sunchild]

liminal_luke you have my respect. it is my hope that you find peace regarding your situation/past.

 

do not blame yourself or feel responsible for any of my actions. i am capable of reasoning and action.