.

[Nungali]

Nungali said:

 

"Still ... I have my romantic notion of part of me ascending and dissolving , and giving all up to the ..... <insert whatever here > ... (I insert 'Star Goddess' ) . "

 

Ok, there are parts that may do that. Btw, I heard your linked poem as an articulate exercise in nihilistic depression. I think it's a more or less self-inflicted narcotic like lie as far as Spirit is concerned - for spirit sees death die and when you see and know yourself as spirit then you also see death die, for that spirit of truth is life and joy that is beyond (and thus not tied to) death and sorrow, nor a fading away into some vague, fated and unavoidable nul where one might believe there is rest, for again the most true and lasting rest is also in the indestructible, irresistible and irrepressible Spirit as Self that is ever alive in a far greater sense than being bound in some time or place and identified with forms that do come to an end.

 

Best wishes and some luck to ya

 

 

The 'fate' of becoming 'null' is an ecstasy hard to comprehend for those attached to 'immortal existence' .

 

I see glimpses of it throughout Swinburne's work ... yes, I also see traces of some nihilistic depression , and a certain negative outlook but between that , something else ... I also see traces of fear in thinking it is a lie.

 

This part of ourselves that writes and postulates on internet forums conceives and expresses 'spirit that does not die' ?

 

I suggest, if one does have that intrinsic function, it is disconnected from and exists deep within ... any connection with that and 'this here now' must be forged. And I am not convinced that happens via any conscious, religious, ego-centric practice (okay maybe some types of Buddhism (but that is not a religion IMO, it is a type of this magical practice and technique).

 

All this < gestures with hand > including that which is now reading and writing such 'lofty' concepts ( ) ....

 

" ... All delicate days and pleasant, all spirits and sorrows are cast

Far out with the foam of the present that sweeps to the surf of the past:

Where beyond the extreme sea-wall, and between the remote sea-gates,

Waste water washes, and tall ships founder, and deep death waits... "

http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poem/174559

[Seth Ananda]

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Edited November 25, 2015 by Seth Ananda

[Michael Sternbach]

I dont know about " other parts of the subtle body ascend to the planets and stars" in this tradition here... it is spoken about, but more as a group thing ( eg. Uncle Link told me the Bundjalung were 'Morning Star People'. I.e. a group , not an individual.)

 

I have a concept about that from Hermetics and 'neo-Egyptology' ... but it seems to be becoming 'less necessary' . In any case, is it the 'astral vehicle' ... ( " this too must die " ) .... that makes this 'journey' ? IMO that dies in the 'second death', if anything else 'continues on' I feel it is something else ... and that is the thing we must connect with and 'download' our relevant incarnational experience into (otherwise what is the point) ... on the shamanic earth level, that same experience is downloaded in to the 'collective pool'.

 

The descent and ascent of the soul is a concept that goes back to Plato and to the Mithraic mysteries and later became a part of Hermetics and Neoplatonism. Among others, the Roman Macrobius explained it in his "Commentary on the Dream of Scipio" as the soul descending from the intersection of the Milky Way with the Zodiac.

 

http://www.academia.edu/1536305/PLATOS_COSMIC_X_Heavenly_Gates_at_the_Celestial_Crossroads_Proceedings_of_SEAC_2012_Conference_Slovene_Anthropological_Society_Ljubljana_2013_"

 

In Macrobius' description, prior to physical incarnation, the soul gradually acquires a "light body" along with human personality characteristics as it descends through the planetary spheres down to Earth. After a physical incarnation has ended, it ascends and sheds the different layers of this "light body" (which is synonymous with the astral vehicle) as it returns to the stellar/Divine world. I think that the shedding of the subtle body could be what is meant by the so-called "second death" - whereas the immortal essence, soul or monad goes on.

 

A related belief is shared by various shamanistic cultures, where the ancestors are thought of as abiding in macrocosmic stellar regions whence they are able to bestow their beneficial influence on their living relatives via a good harvest etc.

 

Interestingly, related concepts of the soul's astral sojourns can also be found in the works of modern metaphysicists like Edgar Cayce, Rudolf Steiner and E. H. Bailey.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Prenatal-Epoch-E-H-Bailey/dp/1933303247/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1418856361&sr=8-1&keywords=prenatal+epoch

 

So it is not a normal intrinsic part of the psychological landscape? It has to be activated, so therefore it may not exist in that form in all of us.

 

This goes along with some ideas I have had about 'that which does survive' or the 'Immortal Osiris'

 

In a way it reminds me of that part of the 'being' the Egyptians called the Akh ... it is something that 'becomes' we dont start off with one ... some call it the 'glorified soul' . Whether it is a 'right' for just the King , or in latter times, everyone is probably insignificant . It needs to be developed by activated magical practices. IMO there is probably a natural corollary for some, but we 'help it along' with certain process.

 

From my perspective, the question may really be how far that which we think of as our personality can follow on the soul's journey back to its source - which depends on how conscious the personality during its physical existence was or became of the extended landscape of its psyche and to what level the "light body" has been activated, respectively. Thus the endeavours to build up a "diamond body" in Tibetan Buddhism, or to construct "Solomon's Temple" internally in an Occidental esoteric tradition. Chinese Alchemists may employ methods of Qigong to this end which they also regard as a kind of immortality (albeit not physical).

[Apech]

The Egyptian spiritual entity which dreams, wanders off, appears as various animals and so on, is the 'ba'. At death the ba goes to the east and rises to the sky to view the next days sunrise. The word ba can also mean 'soul', or more properly 'divine spark' since gods are also called ba ... the sun is called the Great Eastern Ba. After death if the ba is not lured back to reunite with the other parts of being the so-called second death occurs. Essentially the ba becomes lost in the vastness and that's it for you ... finito.

 

 

Alma minha gentil, que te partiste

Tão cedo desta vida descontente,

Repousa lá no Céu eternamente,

E viva eu cá na terra sempre triste.

 

My gentle soul who left me,

Too early from this life of discontent,

Rest there in the eternal heaven,

While I live forever sad here on earth.

Camões

Edited December 17, 2014 by Apech

[3bob]

Soul seeing/knowing spirit (if you will with those terms) can not be done without having an "x" amount of certain parts working together in the first place, thus there is no waste of life as some may project if those "x" amount of parts serve or have served their purpose as a matrix. I'm not proclaiming or advocating just concepts, thoughts, a 'big" religious idea or mind tripping about spirit - which if that was all it ever amounted to then yes, that would more or less be a type of pasted on concept or construct that would probably fade or waste away - being that without enough related and gutsy development there would be no resulting first hand and indelible experiences. Btw, it would also be a type waste if one got stuck on only an "x" part of a tree (or aspect) and then missed or dismissed the forest, mountains, lakes, sky, and sun. (so to speak)

 

I'd add that there is no freedom greater than the freedom of spirit which is of inherent and indestructible truth, and that can never and will never be a waste of time or lost to any level or power of death; thus in that sense death as some kind of ultimate end game is a lie since it is powerless against the deathless freedom of spirit that we are. (and not just some neo-quasi-doubtful-whatever-lost-forever in space fear)

 

(and it sounds like I'm off topic for TW, thus I'll take my leave but thanks to all for the interesting exchanges earlier :-)

Edited December 19, 2014 by 3bob

[Cookie Monster]

I thought the -direct- comparision between fetch and fylgja was a bit weird.

-I'm used to fylgja as a female follower of the ancestral line, but apparently it can mean more than that.
This outlines about the fylgja.
http://freya.theladyofthelabyrinth.com/?page_id=14

 

We are confused about the way the Norse sources seem to “mess up the order of things” when describing mythical entities because we are conditioned to see everything as separate entities in separate boxes. Meditating on Old Norse art may help us to understand that in the Old Norse mind, entities were fluid, shape-shifting, gradually overlapping. We may have to realize that the distinction between fate goddesses, death goddesses, personal guardian spirits, the spirits of the ancestors and our personal souls may simply not have been clear-cut and that this is why the sources are so confusing to us

 

Edit:Clarification

Edited January 4, 2015 by Ancient Sword of Khuul

[Cookie Monster]

I agree that the vikings were very influential in their time

But I would think it strange to say traditional witchcraft is directly descendent from seidr...

There's so many streams in this river

We need to consider the celts.... all the cultures that have flown through

Mysticism of the isles has flavours not present in the norse stuff, and vice versa

flavours of mire.

[Seth Ananda]

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Edited November 25, 2015 by Seth Ananda

[Seth Ananda]

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Edited November 25, 2015 by Seth Ananda

[Zhongyongdaoist]

I read the review myself and have to agree with on this. The reviewer is a grand rhetorician who starts out by conjuring us into submission and obedience in the mighty names of Recoeur and Derrida, an obvious indication that we must really look closer to the little man behind the curtain.

 

Personally I don't want to go more into it than that, but the problem of saying that only a person who is involved can talk about it is a redirection, the person who is involved already values the matter in question and may be blind to deficiencies that are clear to an informed outsider. I myself have no opinion on the present matter, but reached the conclusion in the early 70s that generally occultists were the last people to talk to about their art and to always balance outside scholarship with insider observations, this is the value of Seth Ananda's recommended authors.

 

Since the 70s the quality of occultist's insight on historical matters has improved and there are some good ones around, and though my observation may be outdated, I liked Aidan Kelly for an "inside/outside" look which seemed both knowledgeable and critical. This also gives me the opportunity to cite his treatment of Martha and Fred Adler, who while not the first Witches I ever met, were the first ones who had a coven, etc.:

 

To Martha and Fred, I do remember you

 

I met them in the summer of 1968 and could say more about it, and my own experiences, if anyone was interested, but they would definitely be those of a sympathetic outsider and not an insider. Also as a point of interest since the review does dwell on the character of the founder Robert Cochrane I did a Solar Chart for his birth and from what I know of the situation it and his teachings it is very apropos, as these things usually are. I could post it if anyone is interested.

[Zhongyongdaoist]

You're interest is enough for me, but I think many others may find Cochrane's chart of interest, because if any one was born to be a prophet of Horned Gods, Divine Ladies and sacred blacksmiths it was surely Cochrane.  I will try to get something ready in a few days.  My primary focus now is on my Aristotle posts, from which I have taken a short hiatus, but will post more in a day or so.  My experiences among the witches will have to wait longer.

[Zhongyongdaoist]

Alright this will be the beginning and maybe the end of my discussion of Cochrane's chart, but first some background.

My first encounter with Cochrane's system was through a High Priest of 1734 who had worked for many years with Joe Wilson. I was already familiar with Joe Wilson through the Adlers whom I have mentioned before. My acquaintance with the Adlers garnered me a free subscription to Joe Wilson's “Waxing Moon”. I met the man I will call “Higgsworthy” at a pagan gathering and we talked for sometime and eventually became friends. Higgsworthy always referred to Cochrane as Roy Bowers, or more usually just as Bowers. He spoke of Bowers with great respect and of Bowers' Letters as being of great importance. Up until this thread appeared I had no other reference to this “tradition” except a work of William G. Gray, one of the Western Inner Workings series, which Higgsworthy brought to my attention. Higgsworthy hinted about aspects of 1734, but was mostly discrete and I never pressed him on the matter. When I read this thread I went back and did some online research, and learned more, but I have still not read Cochrane's original material or much about about the details of his contribution to Traditional Witchcraft. In short I know precious little about the man or his teachings.

When I actually did his chart:



A lot that I had read suddenly made sense.

Now about the chart, it is done for sunrise for the date and place listed in the Wikipedia article on Cochrane. Charts for sunrise like this are used when the birth time is unknown or uncertain, but I have enough experience as an astrologer to know how to use them and aside from that the salient details scream at you from the chart. If anyone reading or posting here knows a reliable birth time for Chochrane and cares to supply it I will be happy to recast the chart. Maybe Seth Ananda knows someone.

I have put circles around the planetary groupings that caused me to say:

 

. . . if any one was born to be a prophet of Horned Gods, Divine Ladies and sacred blacksmiths it was surely Cochrane.

Note that the three circles could be put at the end of a capital “T” and so this type of configuration is called a T-square and is a very dynamic structure, part of the dynamics comes from its defining “opposition”, the top of the T and the planet, or planets at the bottom of the T, and the it resemblance to a drawn bow with an arrow in it. The opposition is between planets in Capricorn, who goat symbolism makes it one of the “horned” signs of the Zodiac (the others being Aries andTaurus) and is also one of the signs of fathers and authority figures, and planets in Cancer, the sign of mothers and also of the Moon, a very important aspect of folk beliefs. At the bottom is a planet in one of the other horned signs Aries.

The Planets involved in this figure are equally important, two of them Pluto in Cancer and Uranus in Aries are what are called outer planets meaning that they are outside the orbit of Saturn and outer planets have to do with large, important, big picture matters, like death and taxes. Pluto in particular is the planet par excellance of sex, death, and the underworld. Uranus has more to do with breaking out of restrictive situations, often by a change in ones sense of self. Saturn, basically ones sense of self, is also part of this combination and is in its own sign of Capricorn and thus opposed to Pluto in Cancer. Uranus is in Aries, in many ways, the sign of the “rebellious child”, made even more so by its being occupied by Uranus, with its tendency to want to break out of limitations. This combination alone would create an enormous amount of internal tension, which would tie in with parental issues and be characterized by problems with authority figures, problems in relationships and a deeply felt need to break out of himself, through intense challenging experience.

The other planets involve in this configuration, Jupiter, Mercury and the Nodes of the Moon, which are not exactly a planet, but are very important in charts and also in practical magic, are important also, however, I will put them off for another time because this has been a long post already, though just what I have said so far would indicate an intense, charismatic personality who would be viewed in the modern world as “driven by his own internal demons” and who could not help but have a strong effect on those with whom he came in contact.

More as I have time and if people are interested.

[RiverSnake]

Just finished "A Deed Without a Name". It was an interesting exploration of witchcraft from a practical and scholarly perspective. It was a bit dense at times, but not overly so. Picked up ton of knowledge about the tradition and some useful techniques for:

 

1. Connecting with your fetch

2. Necromancy

3. Spirit Flight

 

and several others I cannot recall. Like said above I also enjoying connecting with traditions that have a non-dual approach. It just seems like a healthier, more grounded and happier way of living. Looking forward to exploring other literature on the topic.

[RiverSnake]

Seth, I'm curious, do you make regular offerings (weekly, daily, monthly...etc) to your fetch?

Edited April 7, 2015 by OldChi

[GreytoWhite]

http://disinfo.com/2013/06/titb-032-a-deed-without-a-name/

[witch]

  Well knock me down with a feather!  Seth Ananda, of all people, becomes a witch!

 

http://thedaobums.com/topic/6799-the-forces-of-darkness/?p=78582

 

Wiccans aren't so bad, as long as you ignore the bogus "history".  Even fluffy bunnies have their place.

 

I love this website--plenty of bones to fetch!

 

But, um....some unasked-for advice--witchcraft, including traditional witchcraft, is best when led by women.  I'm not saying it has to be all femdommy, but at the very least women should have equal leadership for best results and balance, and it's better to have more women than men in leadership roles.  Also, I couldn't quite make out if the tradition under discussion is Asatru, but if so, BE CAREFUL!  I follow an Egyptian pantheon, and they tend to be gentle and polite.  Asatru--they are a lot more dangerous, especially if Thor is the one followed.  If any racist tendencies increase, get out right away.  Seriously.

[witch]

Ah, after googling, not Asatru but "Anderean".  That's fine, then.  And looks like Lee Morgan was/is/will be(?) a woman, so that's good too.

 

No love for witches like me though. 

[Seth Ananda]

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Edited November 25, 2015 by Seth Ananda

[Seth Ananda]

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Edited November 25, 2015 by Seth Ananda

[witch]

That is true--wicca generally isn't very deep and is primarily about women's concerns--love, money, healing, protection and sometimes a little housework and weatherwork thrown in for good measure.  Not very philosophical or magickal with a "k".  I'm glad you found a path that suits you!

[Nungali]

  Well knock me down with a feather!  Seth Ananda, of all people, becomes a witch!

 

http://thedaobums.com/topic/6799-the-forces-of-darkness/?p=78582

 

Wiccans aren't so bad, as long as you ignore the bogus "history".  Even fluffy bunnies have their place.

 

I love this website--plenty of bones to fetch!

 

But, um....some unasked-for advice--witchcraft, including traditional witchcraft, is best when led by women.  I'm not saying it has to be all femdommy, but at the very least women should have equal leadership for best results and balance, and it's better to have more women than men in leadership roles.  Also, I couldn't quite make out if the tradition under discussion is Asatru, but if so, BE CAREFUL!  I follow an Egyptian pantheon, and they tend to be gentle and polite.  Asatru--they are a lot more dangerous, especially if Thor is the one followed.  If any racist tendencies increase, get out right away.  Seriously.

 

 

Mmhe ... the one's I met were all wind !  They had big weapons and didnt have a clue about using them.  Untrained , but apparently women led (as the main one seemed to carry his girlfriend around on his shoulders most of the time, who rode and directed him like a horse ).

 

And he backed out of a friendly with wooden weapons , after he accepted an invite from me. but then asked  my experience - Hey!  ... supposed to be  a friendly !

 

They were used for 'guards' at a big wiccan circle celebration thingo I went to once. People got the shits because they tried to act tough and surely . Until this gay guy planted a kiss right on the lips of the circle entrance 'guardian' who was standing there looking tough with a sword as he went past.  The guy guy danced on through  and the guard pulled a dagger and said "I always carry a back up weapon".  So I said "Too late mate, he got ya right on the mouth !  Maybe some tongue too hmmm ? ":

 

He went purple   

 

What a stupid energy to set up at a circle entrance  . 

 

 

[ I prefer this type ;

 

Priestess stops the group of men at the circle gate:  "Stop right there, you are not coming in here like that!  And with that .... thing this is a scared space. Why should we let you in here ? "

 

The answer was about how we had all this good energy and would be nice and here is all this stuff for you (   ) like flowers and nice food and we cut down this big pole to put in the nice hole you dug ... and we have  lots of alcohol  ... Oh, and I bought you this precious exotic jewelled broach fro your robe ... I think it's Celtic ?   ,,, and some emotive poetry  and .....

 

In like Flynn mate !    

[Seth Ananda]

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Edited November 25, 2015 by Seth Ananda

[Seth Ananda]

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Edited November 25, 2015 by Seth Ananda

[Bruce Qi]

Hey Seth , is there any practical books for learning the basics of TW ?

[Seth Ananda]

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Edited November 25, 2015 by Seth Ananda