how does one reach enlightenment?

[MooNiNite]

ME:

 

Iv thought it was as simple as energy exercises everyday...

kundalini exercises..

meditation...

if i chant OM i can do it!..

 

hey if i sit in lotus everyday for 2 hours i can do it in a year, maybe less! like Wang Liping!

 

well three years later and many problems later (which could actually account for my lack of enlightenment so dont think im knockin energetic practices!)

 

anyways....i soon meet masters who give me a COMPLETELY different perspective...

 

"Realization & enlightenment don't come from meditation..

It comes from living a life the way of the truth.

The way of life is truth.

Truth is my way of life. "

"I never meditate .

The truth is u can't get inside with meditation..

It might surprise you to hear that.."

"Meditation is helpful for many when their minds are busy, but meditation itself is a contrived state of mind. Ultimately there is no difference between meditation and normal daily living."

(one of our very own Bums )

WHAT IS YOUR PERSPECTIVE?!

 

P.S. What about Buddha? he searched until he could search no further, finally ending his journey within, in meditation.

 

 

[Horus]

ME:

 

Iv thought it was as simple as energy exercises everyday...

kundalini exercises..

meditation...

if i chant OM i can do it!..

 

hey if i sit in lotus everyday for 2 hours i can do it in a year, maybe less! like Wang Liping!

 

well three years later and many problems later (which could actually account for my lack of enlightenment so dont think im knockin energetic practices!)

 

anyways....i soon meet masters who give me a COMPLETELY different perspective...

 

"Realization & enlightenment don't come from meditation..

It comes from living a life the way of the truth.

The way of life is truth.

Truth is my way of life. "

"I never meditate .

The truth is u can't get inside with meditation..

It might surprise you to hear that.."

"Meditation is helpful for many when their minds are busy, but meditation itself is a contrived state of mind. Ultimately there is no difference between meditation and normal daily living."

(one of our very own Bums )

WHAT IS YOUR PERSPECTIVE?!

 

P.S. What about Buddha? he searched until he could search no further, finally ending his journey within, in meditation.

"What about Buddha? he searched until he could search no further, finally ending his journey within, in meditation."

 

The meditation got him there - but only the engagement of correct thought, word and deed took him "over the line".

[Dr_D]

Let go and let God.

[Bearded Dragon]

Yes. The same with Bankei. He meditated until severe health problems almost killed him, and as he coughed up a bloody ball of mucus he realised what had eluded him all that time. It can help clear some hay from the haystack so that you can find the needle, but meditation is not finding the needle. I can only conclude this from many accounts of enlightenment that I have read.

 

I have heard the sudden realisation as a "wonderful accident". I think this is a good term. It gives less of a sense of obtaining something and rather just a realisation stemming from setting up the conditions and waiting patiently for it to happen.

[johndoe2012]

.

Edited May 15, 2014 by chris d

[Rara]

ME:

 

Iv thought it was as simple as energy exercises everyday...

kundalini exercises..

meditation...

if i chant OM i can do it!..

 

hey if i sit in lotus everyday for 2 hours i can do it in a year, maybe less! like Wang Liping!

 

well three years later and many problems later (which could actually account for my lack of enlightenment so dont think im knockin energetic practices!)

 

anyways....i soon meet masters who give me a COMPLETELY different perspective...

 

"Realization & enlightenment don't come from meditation..

It comes from living a life the way of the truth.

The way of life is truth.

Truth is my way of life. "

 

 

"I never meditate .

The truth is u can't get inside with meditation..

It might surprise you to hear that.."

 

"Meditation is helpful for many when their minds are busy, but meditation itself is a contrived state of mind. Ultimately there is no difference between meditation and normal daily living."

(one of our very own Bums )

 

 

 

 

WHAT IS YOUR PERSPECTIVE?!

 

 

 

 

P.S. What about Buddha? he searched until he could search no further, finally ending his journey within, in meditation.

 

 

In the film "Shaolin", Jackie Chan's character's path to enlightenment is not through martial arts and meditation, but in cooking for the other monks. Worth a watch. Also worth reading Chuang Tzu, especially his tale about the Ox butcher.

 

As for Buddha, he didn't just sit and meditate...this was just his foundation. He went out saved a lot of people superman style!

[Rara]

 

I have heard the sudden realisation as a "wonderful accident".

I can endorse this. Any moments of wisdom have always come as a lesson learned...something unexpected from what originally seemed to me as an "unfortunate" situation.

 

You don't always get what you want but you get what you need.

 

And if you actually listen to the signs, it makes life a hell of a lot easier!

[GrandmasterP]

" In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert's there are few."

( Shunryu Suzuki).

I'd give 'hat lad's '...." Let go and let God" a miss TT- but beyond that, just keep cultivating.

Pointlessly.

All strength to ya.

:-)

Edited April 30, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[mike 134]

Haha with drugs you can do it instantly.

[Seeker of Wisdom]

..."Realization & enlightenment don't come from meditation..

It comes from living a life the way of the truth.

The way of life is truth.

Truth is my way of life."

 

"I never meditate .

The truth is u can't get inside with meditation..

It might surprise you to hear that.."

 

"Meditation is helpful for many when their minds are busy, but meditation itself is a contrived state of mind. Ultimately there is no difference between meditation and normal daily living."...

These statements are ultimately true, however we need to be practical. You can't just sit around and expect to be enlightened.

 

Meditation is a contrived state. However, that doesn't mean it isn't useful or even necessary.

 

All states except enlightenment are contrived. This means the only way to enlightenment is by ending our contrived states. And the only thing we have to work with is contrived states! So we seem to have a catch-22. How can we end contrived states using contrived states?

 

Here's one possible route:

1) End the contrived state of distraction with the contrived practice of shamatha so that you can perceive clearly for the next step.

2) End the contrived state of delusion with the contrived practice of vipashyana.

 

Contrived practice is like a stick used to start a fire: all the other sticks burn, and then it burns in the fire itself. So the contrived practice and the insight destroy delusion, then in the end they self-destruct, leaving only uncontrived enlightenment.

[ChiForce]

Through meditation, you acquire transcendent wisdom of the Dharma and leading to samadhi and reaching to various levels of jhanas. Through the actual functioning world, you exercise and practice the teaching of the Dharma. You can also meditate in your sleep and in your dreams, if you are lucky enough and have accumulated good merit in your past lives.

[LAOLONG]

there are many state of mind

enlightenment is one more

[Infinity]

My understanding on this is that enlightenment/ self realisation is our essential nature and can never be reached and is dependent on nothing but simply is the current case.

 

And it is our will to be something else which prevents it (unlove). We cannot become ourself.

 

Years ago when dropping LSD I used to enter this super conscious state where my head opened up and I new everything and nothing had to be done and everything was totally perfect, unfathomably perfect and beautiful.

 

Well I began to notice a kind of method to get there. I would basically suddenly realise I was there. So when I was not I would try focus on realising I was there and some times I would flip into this state. It was a weird mental acrobatic performed while tripping.

 

∞

Edited April 30, 2014 by Infinity

[Aetherous]

According to Tibetan Buddhist teachings, enlightenment is not a state of mind. It's our natural state (the opposite of any fluctuating state of mind). Just two things obstruct this natural state, like clouds covering the sky and blocking out the sun: 1) negative emotions, and 2) conceptual thinking...such as the sense of self, which is basically the root of the negative emotions.

So, one attains enlightenment by transmuting negative emotions, in one way or another.

It's not only that...but it's said that enlightenment has certain qualities. Some people can appear to have no negative emotions, no matter what happens...but in fact they're either stuffing them deep down, or else are sociopaths. That's the opposite of enlightenment. An example of an enlightened quality is a type of loving-kindness that doesn't discriminate...it's given to all, no matter what they do. This blossoms naturally when the obstructions are cleared.

It should be fairly easy to notice a person who is enlightened...they have deep love for you. They help you. They're not caught up in various drama...ever. The only reason it's hard to tell who is enlightened, is because there actually are barely any enlightened people around. 99.999999% of us have negative emotions in abundance that we have a hard time dealing with. Appearances can be deceiving.

So anyway, how does one reach enlightenment? Learn the teachings of what seems like a legitimate school for enlightenment, so that you know the goal and the way to achieve it...then do it.

[thelerner]

 

Years ago when dropping LSD I used to enter this super conscious state where my head opened up and I new everything and nothing had to be done and everything was totally perfect, unfathomably perfect and beautiful.

 

Well I began to notice a kind of method to get there. I would basically suddenly realise I was there. So when I was not I would try focus on realising I was there and some times I would flip into this state. It was a weird mental acrobatic performed while tripping.

 

∞

Thank you for sharing your experience. If may ask: how long did the experience last while on LSD? As long as the dose lasted or longer? Since LSD itself doesn't necessarily bring that experience on, is there a particular practice or mind set that helped you to that state while on the drug?

[ChiForce]

Thank you for sharing your experience. If may ask: how long did the experience last while on LSD? As long as the dose lasted or longer? Since LSD itself doesn't necessarily bring that experience on, is there a particular practice or mind set that helped you to that state while on the drug?

Enlightenment induced by drugs...is it really enlightenment?

[GrandmasterP]

I'd say not.

Depends how you view enlightenment I suppose.

If enlightenment is viewed as one of the states resulting from the alteration to brain chemistry then maybe yes.

I don't 'think' that's what enlightenment is hence I don't 'think' that enlightenment can stem from a drug induced state.

However I don't know for sure.

Edited April 30, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Marblehead]

One can reach enlightenment by taking the 7:38 to Timbuktu. Or was the Timbukone?

[Infinity]

Hi thelerner & ChiForce,

 

This state just came about many times as I took LSD quite a bit in my youth aged 17-19 and then again briefly at about 23.

 

Had lots of experiences of it. It would seem that everything was amplified and I became aware that 'I' was terribly confined by my thoughts my description and often I could not break free and have a 'bad' trip, lost in infinity I called it, going round and round in my mind over and over trapped in a mental prison (still am ha ha).

 

Other times I would break out and 'pop up' into the place of knowing, beauty in the eternal perfect now. With this perception everything was super real and perfect but so real it was unreal. If I was in a room inside it would seem that there was nothing on the other side of the walls as if everything was kind of a holographic projection, just light. It just happened naturally (with the aid of LSD) when I ceased thinking.

 

It was not just me either I used to trip regularly with two other people and they seemed to experience this too. One of them guessed cards over and over, and used to say were gods again. Can't remember everything that happened but it was all knowing and very natural in that place and it seemed I new everything but nothing needed to be known all was more than ok it was utterly perfect. Have no idea if enlightenment can be reached through drugs and am not claiming it can. It was just an experience I had, but I remember I just would realise oh I am here again and that would be it. And if I was not there would try sometimes to trigger it by mental saying I was here again, hard to describe.

 

It lasted until the LSD wore off.

 

∞

Edited April 30, 2014 by Infinity

[beyonder]

 

WHAT IS YOUR PERSPECTIVE?!

The normal, unobstructed mind is enlightenment. How do you "reach" it? You're already there. You just didn't realize it yet.

 

This is the nature of the unenlightened mind: The sense organs, which are limited in scope and ability, randomly gather information. This partial information is arranged into judgments, which are based on previous judgments, which are usually based on someone else's foolish ideas. These false concepts and ideas are then stored in a highly selective memory system. Distortion upon distortion: the mental energy flows constantly through contorted and inappropriate channels, and the more one uses the mind, the more confused one becomes. To eliminate the vexation of the mind, it doesn't help to do something; this only reinforces the mind's mechanics. Dissolving the mind is instead a matter of non-doing: Simply avoid becoming attached to what you see and think. Relinquish the notion that you are separated from the all-knowing mind of the universe. Then you can recover your original pure insight and see through all illusions. Knowing nothing, you will be aware of everything.

Remember: because clarity and enlightenment are within your own nature, they are regained without moving an inch.

 

-Hua Hu Ching, verse 44.

http://wuchifoundation.org/documents/TRA19_Hua_Hu_Ching.pdf

 

The normal mind

 

A monk asked an ancient worthy, "What is the Way?"

He replied, "The normal mind is the Way."

The story contains a principle that applies to all the arts. Asked what the Way is, the ancient worthy replied that the normal mind is the Way. This is truly the ultimate. This is the state where the sicknesses of mind are all gone and one has become normal in mind, free from sickness even when in the midsts of sickness.

To apply this to worldly matters, suppose you are shooting with a bow and you think you are shooting while you are shooting; then the aim of your bow will be inconsistent and unsteady. When you wield a sword, if you are conscious of wielding a sword, your offense will be unstable. When you are writing, if you are conscious of writing, your pen will be unsteady. Even when you play the harp, if you are conscious of playing, the tune will be off.

When an archer forgets consciousness of shooting and shoots in a normal frame of mind, as if unoccupied, the bow will be steady. When using a sword or riding a horse as well, you do not "wield a sword" or "ride a horse." And you do not "write," you do not "play music". When you do everything in the normal state of mind, as it is when totally unoccupied, then everything goes smoothly and easily.

Whatever you do as your Way, if you are obsessed with it, or think that this alone is of importance to you, then it is not the Way. It is when you have nothing in your chest that you are on the Way. Whatever you do, if you do it with nothing in your chest, it works out easily.

This is like the way everything reflects clearly in a mirror precisely because of the formless clarity of the mirror's reflectiveness. The heart of those on the Way is like a mirror, empty and clear, being mindless and yet not failing to accomplish anything.

This is the "normal mind". Someone who does everything with this normal mind is called an adept.

Whatever you do, if you keep the idea of doing it before you and do it with singleminded concentration, you will be uncoordinated. You will do it well once, and then, when you think that is fine, you will do it badly. Or you may do it well twice, then do it badly again. If you are glad you did it well twice and badly only once, then you will do it badly again. There is no consistency at all, because of doing it with the thought of doing it well.

When the effects of exercise build up unawares and practice accumulates, thoughts of wishing to quickly develop skill disappear quitly, and whatever you do, you spontaneously become free from conscious thoughts. At this time, you do not even know yourself; when your body, feet, and hands act without your doing anything in your mind, you make no misses, ten times of out ten.

Even then, if it gets on your mind, you will miss. When you are not consciously mindful, you will succeed every time. Not being consciously mindful does not, however, mean total mindlessness; it just means a normal mind.

 

Yagyu Munenori, Hereditary Book on the Art of War

[ChiForce]

The normal, unobstructed mind is enlightenment. How do you "reach" it? You're already there. You just didn't realize it yet.

 

This is the nature of the unenlightened mind: The sense organs, which are limited in scope and ability, randomly gather information. This partial information is arranged into judgments, which are based on previous judgments, which are usually based on someone else's foolish ideas. These false concepts and ideas are then stored in a highly selective memory system. Distortion upon distortion: the mental energy flows constantly through contorted and inappropriate channels, and the more one uses the mind, the more confused one becomes. To eliminate the vexation of the mind, it doesn't help to do something; this only reinforces the mind's mechanics. Dissolving the mind is instead a matter of non-doing: Simply avoid becoming attached to what you see and think. Relinquish the notion that you are separated from the all-knowing mind of the universe. Then you can recover your original pure insight and see through all illusions. Knowing nothing, you will be aware of everything.

Remember: because clarity and enlightenment are within your own nature, they are regained without moving an inch.

 

-Hua Hu Ching, verse 44.

http://wuchifoundation.org/documents/TRA19_Hua_Hu_Ching.pdf

 

The normal mind

 

A monk asked an ancient worthy, "What is the Way?"

He replied, "The normal mind is the Way."

The story contains a principle that applies to all the arts. Asked what the Way is, the ancient worthy replied that the normal mind is the Way. This is truly the ultimate. This is the state where the sicknesses of mind are all gone and one has become normal in mind, free from sickness even when in the midsts of sickness.

To apply this to worldly matters, suppose you are shooting with a bow and you think you are shooting while you are shooting; then the aim of your bow will be inconsistent and unsteady. When you wield a sword, if you are conscious of wielding a sword, your offense will be unstable. When you are writing, if you are conscious of writing, your pen will be unsteady. Even when you play the harp, if you are conscious of playing, the tune will be off.

When an archer forgets consciousness of shooting and shoots in a normal frame of mind, as if unoccupied, the bow will be steady. When using a sword or riding a horse as well, you do not "wield a sword" or "ride a horse." And you do not "write," you do not "play music". When you do everything in the normal state of mind, as it is when totally unoccupied, then everything goes smoothly and easily.

Whatever you do as your Way, if you are obsessed with it, or think that this alone is of importance to you, then it is not the Way. It is when you have nothing in your chest that you are on the Way. Whatever you do, if you do it with nothing in your chest, it works out easily.

This is like the way everything reflects clearly in a mirror precisely because of the formless clarity of the mirror's reflectiveness. The heart of those on the Way is like a mirror, empty and clear, being mindless and yet not failing to accomplish anything.

This is the "normal mind". Someone who does everything with this normal mind is called an adept.

Whatever you do, if you keep the idea of doing it before you and do it with singleminded concentration, you will be uncoordinated. You will do it well once, and then, when you think that is fine, you will do it badly. Or you may do it well twice, then do it badly again. If you are glad you did it well twice and badly only once, then you will do it badly again. There is no consistency at all, because of doing it with the thought of doing it well.

When the effects of exercise build up unawares and practice accumulates, thoughts of wishing to quickly develop skill disappear quitly, and whatever you do, you spontaneously become free from conscious thoughts. At this time, you do not even know yourself; when your body, feet, and hands act without your doing anything in your mind, you make no misses, ten times of out ten.

Even then, if it gets on your mind, you will miss. When you are not consciously mindful, you will succeed every time. Not being consciously mindful does not, however, mean total mindlessness; it just means a normal mind.

 

Yagyu Munenori, Hereditary Book on the Art of War

That's fundamentally true. Unfortunately, we aren't fetus anymore. So, our minds have been differentiated, divided, and compartmentalized. To restore the mind to its original nature, the void or the Tao, you need to work on it. You need to uncling. Unlearn. Just because your mind is fundamentally enlightened, it does not mean you can just sit around and do nothing.

[beyonder]

Just because your mind is fundamentally enlightened, it does not mean you can just sit around and do nothing.

Nine in the fourth place means:

Wavering flight over the depths.

No blame.

 

A place of transition has been reached, and free choice can enter in. A twofold possibility is presented to the great man: he can soar to the heights and play an important part in the world, or he can withdraw into solitude and develop himself. He can go the way of the hero or that of the holy sage who seeks seclusion. There is no general law of his being. If the individual acts consistently and is true to himself, he will find the way that is appropriate for him. This way is right for him and without blame.

 

I Ching, hexagram 1

http://www.wisdomportal.com/IChing/IChing-Wilhelm.html#1

 

Nine at the top means:

He does not serve kings and princes,

Sets himself higher goals.

 

Not every man has an obligation to mingle in the affairs of the world. There are some who are developed to such a degree that they are justified in letting the world go its own way and refusing to enter public life with a view to reforming it. But this does not imply a right to remain idle or to sit back and merely criticize. Such withdrawal is justified only when we strive to realize in ourselves the higher aims of mankind. For although the sage remains distant from the turmoil of daily life, he creates incomparable human values for the future.

 

- I Ching, hexagram 18

http://www.wisdomportal.com/IChing/IChing-Wilhelm.html#18

Edited May 1, 2014 by beyonder

[ChiForce]

Nine in the fourth place means:

Wavering flight over the depths.

No blame.

 

A place of transition has been reached, and free choice can enter in. A twofold possibility is presented to the great man: he can soar to the heights and play an important part in the world, or he can withdraw into solitude and develop himself. He can go the way of the hero or that of the holy sage who seeks seclusion. There is no general law of his being. If the individual acts consistently and is true to himself, he will find the way that is appropriate for him. This way is right for him and without blame.

 

I Ching, hexagram 1

http://www.wisdomportal.com/IChing/IChing-Wilhelm.html#1

 

Nine at the top means:

He does not serve kings and princes,

Sets himself higher goals.

 

Not every man has an obligation to mingle in the affairs of the world. There are some who are developed to such a degree that they are justified in letting the world go its own way and refusing to enter public life with a view to reforming it. But this does not imply a right to remain idle or to sit back and merely criticize. Such withdrawal is justified only when we strive to realize in ourselves the higher aims of mankind. For although the sage remains distant from the turmoil of daily life, he creates incomparable human values for the future.

 

- I Ching, hexagram 18

http://www.wisdomportal.com/IChing/IChing-Wilhelm.html#18

Why are you quoting from the I Ching? No one is seeking divination from the I Ching and the I Ching outcome is very subject dependent.

 

BTW, to restore the mind to its original nature, the Tao, you meditate and to practice Samatha. And hopefully, you will enter into a samadhi, the mental state in which one can truly experience the void and the original nature of the mind...the source of all thoughts.

Edited May 1, 2014 by ChiForce

[beyonder]

Why are you quoting from the I Ching? No one is seeking divination from the I Ching and the I Ching outcome is very subject dependent.

You think I'm using divination to get those quotes? Funny. More like "memory". No, those lines refer to what the options are to someone who actually is enlightened. Those quotes provides a better view than your "Just because your mind is fundamentally enlightened, it does not mean you can just sit around and do nothing," in my opinion.

Edited May 1, 2014 by beyonder

[ChiForce]

You think I'm using divination to get those quotes? Funny. More like "memory". No, those lines refer to what the options are to someone who actually is enlightened. Those quotes provides a better view than your "Just because your mind is fundamentally enlightened, it does not mean you can just sit around and do nothing," in my opinion.

I would prefer to meditate and to enter into a samadhi than reading some quotes though.... Samadhi leading to enlightenment...that's where it counts.