Power of Sound

[宁]

Followed a topic on another board, about the Six Healing Sounds and related topics.

As I mentioned on another thread somewhere, guys that take Chia's stuff & related the easy way are making... how can I put this.... well, a big mistake. I'm not talking about students, not necesarelly.

There are also instructors that fall in this trap.

The rabbit hole of this particular practice is indeed very deep.

I'm sure all of the seekers here, or maybe a major part of them, are searching for better ways to go deeper inside their body-mind system. Or at least, they want their mind to really sink inside the Dan Tian.

The Dan Tian is a quantic space. Following the quantic laws, it's location is everywhere and no-where at the same time. It is inside us, in every cell, in every center.

The major secret of the taoists is that they found out how to build up tools that will allow them to go deeper within.

The deeper you can go within, the higher you can go.

The first training is how to train the mind to be aware of every little bit of yourself.

This can be accomplished with practices that have the power to dig deep inside you, and take out all the garbage you have accumulated in the early years. It is a major-major secret. And because some masters just give it out on a silver plate, it seems we often overlook it.

The same with the previous discussions about colonics and nutrition.

You'd be a fool to ignore such aspects.

 

My only piece of mind regarding these things could be... don't take things the easy way.

There might be a whole lot out there, that you are bound to miss.

 

 

Good luck

 

Little1

[sunshine]

I wonder which board that could be

 

Seriously. I feel a little bad for having brought to life "Chia stuff" as a specific term. Far from any intent. And just in case anybody got me wrong. The formulation has nothing to do with showing respect or disrespect for what Chia is teaching and/or doing.

 

 

Just to keep things straight

 

Harry

[宁]

Dont mind me, I use the term just to make a point, when it is the case.

I can only giggle when I read posts like Denty's that speak about the uselesness of the 6 Healing Sounds. I cant bet on it, but I'm pretty sure he doesnt know what the heck he is talking about.

The more you study about traditional daoist foundation practices, from authors that were really deep into finding out the "how's" and the "why's" of the practice, the more giggles come out.

But there is another side to this

Which I'm not really ready to talk about. But the main idea could be the following: there are two ways of searching, and maybe even two ways of doing the practice.

One way is that you need tools like the six healing sounds, to clear out the internal space, so that "the inner seer", your inner guide, can guide you. If you dont, you will always have to rely on other authority. From what I've gathered until now, the teacher that points you towards inner confirmation is the best you can meet. He is even better, if he shows you ways by wich you can make even more clear what the "inner seer" sees. In the white path, the main accent is on spiritual integrity and independence. It is always stated that you can have anything, but if you miss that, you can loose all. But if you dont have anything BUT you work for spiritual independence, you can have what you want. This is the main purpose in the UTS. The building of the integrity and spiritual independence. This is the main goal, and it takes so long to acheive, that you simply cannot aford spending time developing "special" gongfu.

This is what I am after.

In time, I found out about the "secrets of the Mo Pai's". And guess where. We have the tools, and we can do it.

That's all I needed to know. And the "secrets" are in plain sight, in Chia's stuff But until I was pointed at them, did I see them? At least the first four levels.

But, you know, the story has to end here.

There could be more to come, but it wont be from me.

You said he is getting old... Have you seen him lately? I did.

The daoist have a saying: When 60's, you have to be stronger than in your 16's.

 

One more thing, those that brag about not feeling much when they see a woman.

That's a no-no.

That was the first question that Da Mo asked the monks from the Youthfull Forest.

When they said no, Da Mo shook his head with sadness.

 

Cheers

Edited August 5, 2007 by Little1

[Spectrum]

"The rabbit hole of this particular practice is indeed very deep."

 

What practice? Healing Sounds / Toning ? Please elaborate or provide a link for reference?

 

Spectrum

[sunshine]

Little,

 

I very much hope you followed all of the thread... and not just one or two opinions here and there...c

 

>>This is the main purpose in the UTS. The building of the integrity and spiritual independence. This is the main goal, and it takes so long to acheive, that you simply cannot aford spending time developing "special" gongfu.<<

 

I assume that this is a little side kick towards "David's stuff". Could it be? In case so: "special gongfu" in your sense is not what it is about and what "they" work on...!!! Indeed it is about independency but probably in a very different sense than you make use of the word...

 

>>This is what I am after.<<

 

precious goal!

 

>>In time, I found out about the "secrets of the Mo Pai's". And guess where. We have the tools, and we can do it<<

 

Ah well. How can anybody know truly anything about the secrets of Mo Pai if they haven't been instructed in that path???

 

>>And the "secrets" are in plain sight, in Chia's stuff But until I was pointed at them, did I see them? At least the first four levels.<<

 

With the first four levels? Where are you then??? I just wish for you that you are right. I assume we both don't really know for sure anything about the pathes we walk. We both just believe and hope. If you know you are a lucky man. I don't. I just walk the path for now with faith and this one for specific reasons.

 

>>You said he is getting old... Have you seen him lately? I did.<<

 

Have I ??? To be honest. I am only 33 years of age and already pretty forgetful. And no. I haven't seen him lately. Actually I haven't met him for maybe at least 8 years. One of the reasons me personally wouldn't claim to know anything about him and what he is doing except what I heard from friends in the last several years, who did training with him. Do I use it for an argument... not me! And just for the record: my Dad always looked 20 years younger than he indeed was... and he sure was not into longevity practices...

 

>>One more thing, those that brag about not feeling much when they see a woman.

That's a no-no.<<

 

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm... hope that is not hinted at me... as I sure don't belong into this category

 

 

Harry

[宁]

There are a couple of ways you can learn any practice.

One can be when you just pay the man, get the stuff, and get on with your life.

Another can be when you want to know more about how does the guy practice them.

How did he solved the inherent doubts about it.

How did he came to trust this thing so much, that he would teach others to do it too.

I'm only talking about people that really have that integrity.

 

You may need 6 healing sounds to cool down the practices that make one too yang.

When the body becomes too yang, it becomes more acidic.

When that happens, a helluva problems crawl inside it.

No matter how high a saint may be, if he doesnt mind the physical body, he is finished.

Caput. There are a couple of paths that build up spiritual acheivement at the expense of the "federal reserves" of the body. They reach a certain threshold, and then they either cave in, or stop, because they dont have what to work with anymore.

You can buy that, if you want. I dont.

The next thing you need to know is health is really a challenge.

Especially in modern times.

If you neglect that in favor of "acheivement", you may come about empty handed in the end.

There are a lot of threads of knowledge coming out of China these fortunate years.

All you need is a sincere heart, and the will to get to that well-guarded jewel, spiritual independence.

 

Dont stop the search.

And when you search, do it not to confirm your doubts and ideas.

But first, you need to clear up the seer.

That's what the healing sounds can do for you.

 

 

 

Harry,

 

did you teacher ever told you what level is he?

did J Chang tell anyone?

 

why should I and how could I. I'm no way near that far.

All I can say is there is just a little difference between me and you. Little, but it is

The UTS doesnt quantify the levels like the Mo Pai.

But it has so many layers.

If you see just the surface and think this is it...

And you search for definitive answers form me, but did your teacher gave them to you?

 

Tell me, if you were to start fresh, which path would you choose:

 

- one that tells you that if you dont go all the way, there is nothing to acheive? the one that tells you that you have to do it, and you can die trying?

 

- or the one that makes the practice available for anyone, at whichever level one wants to practice them? or one that makes sure that even if you practice only five minutes a day, if you do it good, you will have good benefits?

Edited August 5, 2007 by Little1

[sunshine]

Little,

 

>>did you teacher ever told you what level is he?

did J Chang tell anyone?<<

 

Indeed we know, but don't ask vor definite answers

 

>>why should I and how could I. I'm no way near that far.<<

 

How then can you know for sure?

 

>>All I can say is there is just a little difference between me and you. Little, but it is <<

 

There is indeed no prob for me

 

>>The UTS doesnt quantify the levels like the Mo Pai.<<

 

I wonder if you ever understood that I was arguing with you about systems?

 

>>But it has so many layers. If you see just the surface and think this is it...<<

 

You won't here a word from me against it

 

>>And you search for definitive answers form me, but did your teacher gave them to you?<<

 

I am just asking and questioning, as I am asking and questiniong others...

 

>>Tell me, if you were to start fresh, which path would you choose:

- one that tells you that if you dont go all the way, there is nothing to acheive? the one that tells you that you have to do it, and you can die trying?

- or the one that makes the practice available for anyone, at whichever level one wants to practice them? or one that makes sure that even if you practice only five minutes a day, if you do it good, you will have good benefits?<<

 

My answer: I have chosen a path that is open for everyone to pick up and open for everyone to walk as far they intent, taking as a possible limit into the equation the "will of heaven"... and I have taken up a path for now where there is honesty to say that if you do not practice a certain amount of time you are wrong on this specific path! If you don't want it, don't pick it up. It is that simple. As my teacher Oleg tends to say, and I am just repeating myself: "If you don't want to practice 3 hours a day better pick up jogging. It will have the same benefits and you save a lot of money and time. "

 

I once was contacted by a a nice guy who said that in his teacher's system it takes them just 20 minutes a day to practice and they will develop capabilities quickly and advance quickly on the spiritual path. This might be true and I wish for him it is... I just don't believe it to be that easy. If it were...

 

time for practice

 

 

Harry

[宁]

You can take this thread as an opposition of a guy that cant stand others "dissing" Chia, and Chia's stuff.

But it's not, belive me.

 

It's just a bewildered reaction to the incomprehensible human abillity to skip over very apparent things.

Including my own.

[sunshine]

>>You can take this thread as an opposition of a guy that cant stand others "dissing" Chia, and Chia's stuff.

But it's not, belive me.<<

 

Taken for granted! - although I sense there is a kind of "passion" you developed towards Denty as him for Chia

 

>>It's just a bewildered reaction to the incomprehensible human abillity to skip over very apparent things.<<

 

If you have worked in psychiatry like me you wouldn't wonder!!!

 

>>Including my own.<<

 

and my own

 

 

Harry

[Spectrum]

Belief is precisely what needs to be suspended.

[sunshine]

Belief is precisely what needs to be suspended.

 

Why?

[Spectrum]

Read the posts in this thread. They're hard to believe. ;o)

 

There are a couple of ways you can learn any practice.

One can be when you just pay the man, get the stuff, and get on with your life.

 

This is the nature of consumption, not learning.

 

Another can be when you want to know more about how does the guy practice them.

How did he solved the inherent doubts about it.

How did he came to trust this thing so much, that he would teach others to do it too.

I'm only talking about people that really have that integrity.

 

This is the nature of observation and inquiry.

 

...levels...

 

No offense but talking about levels in chi gung is like belts. COmpletely artificial. Every has their unique signature. Your energetic fingerprint if you well that is refined through practice. YOUR Gung Fu. Your unique position in the lineage of humanities mentors & seekers of the Way.

 

Good training & discernment to you,

 

Spectrum

 

 

Why?

 

Those who expect nothing are never dissapointed.

 

Assumptions and expectations as to the phenomenon associated with practice is a waste of time. There are natural landmarks and signposts on the Way to the Ocean. One ocean, many rivers.

[宁]

Spectrum,

my first zen-like answer on this forum - you are very right, and maybe you are wrong.

They are right to post official landmarks.

That is the traditional way, by wich many are still trained today.

Why I imply is simply that this doesnt necessarely belong only to some.

It's common sense.

You need to know where you were, where you are, where you are going.

[sunshine]

Those who expect nothing are never dissapointed.

Assumptions and expectations as to the phenomenon associated with practice is a waste of time. There are natural landmarks and signposts on the Way to the Ocean. One ocean, many rivers.

 

Are you at the level to expect nothing?

 

And: just because you expect something does not mean you are disappointed if you don't get it. Might be a causal for many but not for all!

 

And by the way: I don't get how "expectation" and your statement about "belief" are truly linked...

 

You speak of natural landmarks and signposts... how do you know what is natural and what is not?

 

Each river has his own on its way to the ocean!

 

 

Harry

[Spectrum]

Are you at the level to expect nothing?

 

I'm not sure how I feel about you asking me that. Seems like common verrrnacular would better suit seekers.

 

And: just because you expect something does not mean you are disappointed if you don't get it. Might be a causal for many but not for all!

 

Dharma Inititive?

 

And by the way: I don't get how "expectation" and your statement about "belief" are truly linked...

 

Truly?? If you can get your hands on a book entitled The Bodhisattva Warriors there is a section in there on the traditional somatic training that explains well the manifold deconditioning and unification process that the seeker undergoes in order to learn. The nature of knowledge is from the inside out in the art of chi gung.

 

Also the aspect of maintaining an unbroken practice for successive generations is benificial for the advancment of the student seeker. IMHO

 

You speak of natural landmarks and signposts... how do you know what is natural and what is not?

 

All phenomenon is natural as the elements follow their course round our actions in this realm. Awareness naturally develops and deepens, the ripples in the pool calm and we can see deeper when quiet. There is a mystery there though, in that action and inaction are naturally linked. Consciousness and Sleep. Waking Life.

 

Each river has his own on its way to the ocean!

 

Water follows the Way. I'm off toe find Destiny.

 

(:

 

Spectrum

[Spectrum]

Spectrum,

my first zen-like answer on this forum - you are very right, and maybe you are wrong.

 

yeah there's some right in being wrong

 

 

They are right to post official landmarks.

 

official to humanity

 

That is the traditional way, by wich many are still trained today.

 

Word of mouth from teacher to student, like father to son before that. Tribal knowledge has evolved, as it has communication has changed. Its important to preserve the lines of traditional knowledge and communication which include the unspoken language of the classical arts, of which chi gung is one in example, yoga another.

 

Why I imply is simply that this doesnt necessarely belong only to some.

It's common sense.

 

That is really the beauty of it in my interpretation and as it's been shared with me. Being the most natural to us, the path is made navigational through relaxing into the most natural of outcomes. This is not just a concept for example in taiji the principles are made manifest through two person exercises in which the FEEL of physics takes over the minds need to hang on to illusions that are not true.

 

 

You need to know where you were, where you are, where you are going.

 

If you find yourself at the top of a wave theres only one way down. Ride well friend.

 

Spectrum

[宁]

Spectrum,

 

I think I see your point.

 

 

Little

 

PS: Landmarks are a fascinating subject. I'm sure you found them by now in a lot of cultures. Every one of them has a particular set, regulated by the specific goal of the culture/practice.

I'm not sure, but we're not talking "mixies" here, do we? If we do, I dont agree. There is a lot of benefit in interdisciplinarity. But up to a point. Some landmarks have to stay.

 

Dictionary

a "mixie" = cocktail culture

[sunshine]

>>I'm not sure how I feel about you asking me that. Seems like common verrrnacular would better suit seekers.<<

 

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.... was not asking for feelings. I was just wondering. You said that "those who expect nothing are never disappointed" in reponse to my question "why belief should be suspended", as you stated earlier. So I was wondering if you manage to not expect anything...

 

>>Dharma Inititive?<<

 

This is something from Lost, is it?

 

>>Truly?? If you can get your hands on a book entitled The Bodhisattva Warriors there is a section in there on the traditional somatic training that explains well the manifold deconditioning and unification process that the seeker undergoes in order to learn. The nature of knowledge is from the inside out in the art of chi gung. <<

 

Here it is. Were is it that belief has no place? You have to have the belief that this book is TRULY telling something... do I miss something? Maybe belief and faith are two different things? I am missing the difference but maybe one better says: You have to faith in that what you believe is true, is actually true.

 

>>Also the aspect of maintaining an unbroken practice for successive generations is benificial for the advancment of the student seeker. IMHO<<

 

IMHO, too.

 

 

Harry

[Smile]

Power of Sounds?

Try http://www.relfe.com/bible_codes.html

And the CD related: http://www.lifetechnology.org/solfeggio.htm

[Spectrum]

>>verrrnacularseekers.<<

 

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.... was not asking for feelings. I was just wondering. You said that "those who expect nothing are never disappointed" in reponse to my question "why belief should be suspended",

 

What do you believe will happen by practicing chi gung? What are the feelings associated with successful practice?

 

...as you stated earlier. So I was wondering if you manage to not expect anything...

 

In daily practice everything is about feelings. You constantly must ignore what your eyes tell you and go by your gut or intuition. You can't practice chi gung and not feel your body. Pull the blaster sheild down luke. Then again how can you expect what it is you will feel on any given day? A spectrum of feelings exist between movement and stillness, yet anything you do everyday... you just get better at. What meditations we love to partake in shape us as humans rather it's tv, music, painting or taichi chuan.

 

The embodiment of chi gung is all about alpha state which is relaxed body alert mind. So yes and no on letting go. Moving meditation is the goal. Moving without moving. Stillness in motion, and other poems of the body, physical koans of sorts present the internal artist w/ problems to solve through balancing action and inaction, full and empty, and other dimensions of sense that exist between the western dicotomy of mind & body.

 

Once a certain ground zero is established by the seeker. Wu Ji. Empti Readiness. Can be dropped into and out of, and consistant practice yeilds "results" that are best left for further research in traditional allegoy and myth.

 

Do fluctuations in sensory and thought perception ensure success? I do not believe it does, else every person who experimented with drugs would be instantly enlightened. Does practice induce altered states of consciousness? Certainly. I think that a simple methodology and operative practice based on neutral observation and inquiry offers the greatest insights into the nature of any seekers "problems" that keep them from the state of flow they seek. Daily flow being the result. Alignment is

 

You must forget you learned, then you can relearn it easily. Daily. This a practical skill of embodiment. This is the daily practice of letting go of preconcieved notions... being reliquished to a state between belief and disbelief opens your peripheral concouisness up to a wider range of possible choices. This is true in chess and movement arts alike. In the big picture standing your ground means just as much as dutifully relocating.

 

I always feel so "high" at the end of chi gung practice. Funny that as deep as you go is as high as you go. You know seeing tracers is indeed cool, sure it is, but that's just "effect" but honestly is your mind a toy to be played with? It's beautiful, the taiji experience of relaxed embodiment, of form in fluidity, is a cultivation art. I find myself surfing more beautiful niche in taiji spheres, which are within, the form to look for is illusury, there and not, how many ways around the taiji sphere are there?

 

Take notes and forget about it. There are many masters who recommend keeping a journal of "effects" simply so you won't get distracted noting them. The action of writing them down allows you to "let go" of the experience itself, while simultaneously allowing you to recall more details of the experience. Ultimately the space between what we percievce as thought/mind/yi and body is transformed. With consisant mind/body practice the division is slowly healed in subtle ways. The very experience of embodiment changes through consistant honesty with movement. Mnd and body are reunited though very simple yet enduring practices. The traditional 100 day gung is a great example of this. You belief should be suspended by the end of the 100 days. Most people in america can stand on stake for a minute before they start wiggling all over, and quit. I can't belief that.

 

>>Dharma Inititive?<<

 

This is something from Lost, is it?

 

Ya gotta push the button every 108 minutes ya know.

 

>>Truly?? If you can get your hands on a book entitled The Bodhisattva Warriors there is a section in there on the traditional somatic training that explains well the manifold deconditioning and unification process that the seeker undergoes in order to learn. The nature of knowledge is from the inside out in the art of chi gung. <<

 

Here it is. Were is it that belief has no place? You have to have the belief that this book is TRULY telling something... do I miss something? Maybe belief and faith are two different things? I am missing the difference but maybe one better says: You have to faith in that what you believe is true, is actually true.

 

Yeah at some point we started talking and writing things down. Truth most definately exists outside of our interpretation of it. We are aware of such a small window of frequency.

 

Then again I believe everything that has occured in my life is true. Especially things that happen more then once or are witnessed by multiple people. Outside of my own personal experience I have no idea what is true. This paradox is presented to me everytime I learn something new, and everytime something I thought I knew fails me. Thus at times, i simply die inside, and cyclicly, i seem reborn, renewed. Regardless of my "belief" about any phenomenon and or recognizable patterns that seem to occure in a natural language, my ability to respond to these patterns are dependant on the ability to let go of preconcieved notions on what shape these patterns will take right NOW.

 

>>Also the aspect of maintaining an unbroken practice for successive generations is benificial for the advancment of the student seeker. IMHO<<

 

IMHO, too.

 

(:

 

One of many reasons I want to make the trek to Wu Dang Mt. Sacred Ground. The Earth knows who her friends are. Right NOW.

 

Spectrum

Edited August 9, 2007 by Spectrum

[sunshine]

Profound words indeed. Thank you And may you manage it to Wu Dang Mt. Sacred Ground!

 

 

Harry