Importance of TCM's knowledge in our practice

[exorcist_1699]

Knowledge about TCM ( Traditional Chinese Medicine, including acupuncture) is always ignored or underestimated by the people who practice qigong or Taoist meditation . Taoist jing-qi-shen formula , an abstraction of the essence of the TCM system , in fact, helps us filter many details and complexities of the system , and give us an illusion that if we follow what we are told by our teachers or in the DVD , we will be okay and achieve something . However, it is one day after our practices run into troubles, does TCM knowledge's significance start to appear to us .

The reality that how jing, qi and shen function and interact with each other in our body, and how the imbalance of them give rise to diseases are what people should know , yet they don't , or think there is no such a necessity to look into the detail or trivial. They practice Taoist qigong, but they still view

most changes in their bodies in the framework of Western medicine.

Although most people know that yin and yang and their balance is the key to TCM , hardly do they know how delicate and deep it can be . The followings are some of the examples :

-A ulcer emerges as a red swelling , tipped with a white cap , is classified as yang ,which can be squeezed or punctured to have some fluid out to cure; a ulcer appears as something in gray or black color, with a flat or concave surface is classified as yin, which should never be squeezed carelessly.

-While a headache caused by external cold or strong wind is classified as yang for its having caused by substantial factors / evils ('外邪' ) , a headache caused by internal weakness , maybe due to leakage or deficiency of blood or jing , is said to be yin . (' 內虚 ')

- A mental illness in which the patient sits unmoved and talks to himself/herself not loudly is said to be yin typed ; a crazy person , shouting loudly and holding a knife in hands, chase after people to chop , his illness is said to be yang-typed.

- Persons who always find themselves lack of an appetite to eat , an energy to do physical jobs and having a bad memory , their problems can be classified mainly into two types : lack of qi (yang-typed) or deficiency of jing/blood ( yin-typed) . The yang-typed is always cured by using herbs such as Ginseng and Dang Seng ; the yin-typed by Di Huang ('地黃') , Dang gui (' 當歸') ..etc. Note that in TCM's sense, qi is always classified as yang , in opposition to the material /liquid side..

Knowing how to classify every spiritual or physical symptom into yin or yang , and maintaining their balance , of course, helps us a lot in solving problems arising from our practice.

Read my blog :http://exorcist1699.wordpress.com/

Edited May 12, 2014 by exorcist_1699

[z00se]

TCM power through knowledge

qigong power through qi

enlightenment power through grace

 

all help each other

[Zhongyongdaoist]

Knowledge about TCM ( Traditional Chinese Medicine, including acupuncture) is always ignored or underestimated by the people who practice qigong or Taoist meditation . Taoist jing-qi-shen formula , an abstraction of the essence of the TCM system , in fact, helps us filter many details and complexities of the system , and give us an illusion that if we follow what we are told by our teachers or in the DVD , we will be okay and achieve something . However, it is one day after our practices run into troubles, does TCM knowledge's significance start to appear to us .

 

The reality that how jing, qi and shen function and interact with each other in our body, and how the imbalance of them give rise to diseases are what people should know , yet they don't , or think there is no such a necessity to look into the detail or trivial. They practice Taoist qigong, but they still view

most changes in their bodies in the framework of Western medicine.

 

 

Although most people know that yin and yang and their balance is the key to TCM , hardly do they know how delicate and deep it can be . The followings are some of the examples :

 

-A ulcer emerges as a red swelling , tipped with a white cap , is classified as yang ,which can be squeezed or punctured to have some fluid out to cure; a ulcer appears as something in gray or black color, with a flat or concave surface is classified as yin, which should never be squeezed carelessly.

 

-While a headache caused by external cold or strong wind is classified as yang for its having caused by substantial factors / evils ('外邪' ) , a headache caused by internal weakness , maybe due to leakage or deficiency of blood or jing , is said to be yin . (' 內虚 ')

 

- A mental illness in which the patient sits unmoved and talks to himself/herself not loudly is said to be yin typed ; a crazy person , shouting loudly and holding a knife in hands, chase after people to chop , his illness is said to be yang-typed.

 

- Persons who always find themselves lack of an appetite to eat , an energy to do physical jobs and having a bad memory , their problems can be classified mainly into two types : lack of qi (yang-typed) or deficiency of jing/blood ( yin-typed) . The yang-typed is always cured by using herbs such as Ginseng and Dang Seng ; the yin-typed by Di Huang ('地黃') , Dang gui (' 當歸') ..etc. Note that in TCM's sense, qi is always classified as yang , in opposition to the material /liquid side..

 

Knowing how to classify every spiritual or physical symptom into yin or yang , and maintaining their balance , of course, helps us a lot in solving problems arising from our practice.

 

I completely agree with this. Knowledge of TCM has been invaluable to me, especially knowledge of herbs, which Westerners in particular seem determined to ignore. There is a reason for why they ignore them and it is not a good one, but has to do with unexamined cultural memes related to the permeation of Western Culture by attitudes and ideas that can be traced back to the influence of Rene Descartes and his mind/body dualism. I call this condition 'Closet Cartesianism'. If you know what to look for you can find it all over the Tao Bums.

 

Read my blog :http://exorcist1699.wordpress.com/

 

I'll have to check it out.

[exorcist_1699]

What is TCM's relation to qigong practice , especally to those situations when our practice go astray ,likely is what people want to know . Below I try to raise some instances , incoherent they may be, that can help :

1) Most of the Chinese know that when they catch a cold, they should not take any soup of Ginseng or Dang Gui , herbs that nourish and enhance their qi ,blood or jing , for the fear that those herbs will push the external evil ( the cold ) inwards and multiply it , worsening the disease. It is after their cold be cured that qi or jing-enhanced herbs should be taken .

Based on this TCM rule, similarly , before we start practicing qigong , purifying our mind first should always be given the top priority, without it , the evil element , that dark-side power , will be multiplied together with the expansion of our qi and shen, leading to a status that we can't control it , its damage outweighs its benefit to us .

As a Chinese saying tells us :

" 道高一尺, 魔高一丈 " (As Tao rises , the Evil also rises, even outpaces it ) .

From this perspective, a long and painstaking process of polishing our character and morals is something needed , and it is better than those quick and easy ones that people propose .

Don't worry about your incapacity in initializing that great power , worry more about when it comes to you, your ability to accommodate it , to make use of it appropriately.

2 ) In TCM, organs of our body are said to be related to certain , specific emotions of us . For example, the liver is related to anger (which is always easy to arouse ), lung is related to sadness , fear to kidneys ..etc ; because of this , we should never do our qigong soon after our having got angry at something. Anger makes our liver qi expand, which will affect our practice , even our health .The stronger the qi we can initialize , the more dangerous it will be .

3) In many cases, we find that the inappropriate use of people's mind, say over-focusing on their forehead ( the so-called upper dantian) , be the reason that leads them to high blood pressure or headache; on the other hand , over-focusing on the lower dantian can give rise to noctural jing leakage or diarrhea .These qigong-related diseases can only be cured by the ways of qigong , acupuncture or the Chinese medicine ( likely not by other medicine for herbs used in the TCM framework are qi or meridians related , others not ).

For example, shifting our attention from the areas in trouble , say from our head or body , to the acupuncture points at the tips of our limbs :

-勞宫 (Lao Gong; in the middle of our palm); 足三里 ( Zu San Li ; on the side of our ankle);

- 隠白 (Yin Bai; on the side of our toe); -湧泉 (Yong quan; in the upper middle part of our foot bottom );

may ease the symptoms.

Besides, there are some Chinese herbs that can guide our qi to specific part of our body, which make them a means for curing :

- 桂枝(Gui Zhi) : can guide qi to the upper limbs or fingers;

-杜仲(Du Zhong) : can guide qi to our waist or back ;

- 牛膝( Niu Xi ) : can guide qi to our feet or toes.

Simply speaking, if you get qi always rushing out of your control to your head , you may adopt a treatment that combines drinking a soup of Niu Xi with your mind focused to the acupuncture point : Yong quan .

( Warning: every case is unique and complicated , and may have its long history of having mistreated ; people should not rely on what is only briefly introduced here to take any action ; I am just addressing some general principles to a big audience , not to any individual ..)

Edited May 19, 2014 by exorcist_1699

[silent thunder]

 

I completely agree with this. Knowledge of TCM has been invaluable to me, especially knowledge of herbs, which Westerners in particular seem determined to ignore. There is a reason for why they ignore them and it is not a good one, but has to do with unexamined cultural memes related to the permeation of Western Culture by attitudes and ideas that can be traced back to the influence of Rene Descartes and his mind/body dualism. I call this condition 'Closet Cartesianism'. If you know what to look for you can find it all over the Tao Bums.

 

 

I'll have to check it out.

 

Echo this!

 

The Cartesian model is easy to adopt, especially for a Western raised mind and it's influence on the entire organism in which it resides is destructive in my opinion/experience.

 

Rewire yourself.

[Zhongyongdaoist]

 

Echo this!

 

The Cartesian model is easy to adopt, especially for a Western raised mind and it's influence on the entire organism in which it resides is destructive in my opinion/experience.

 

Rewire yourself.

 

It's not so much 'easy to adopt' as so built into the language and conceptual framework of the Western World and even of other societies strongly influenced by it, as to be almost impossible to avoid. Phrases such as 'ghost in the machine', 'mind over matter', etc. all presuppose this world view. Replace mind/matter with spirit/matter and you still have the same mess:

 

http://youtu.be/TXcEO_iUoLE

 

This is why the systematic examination of belief structures is important.

 

I could go on and on about how harmful this cultural meme has been, but that would get us too far off of this good topic.

[ChiDragon]

 

Knowledge about TCM ( Traditional Chinese Medicine, including acupuncture) is always ignored or underestimated by the people who practice qigong or Taoist meditation..........

It is because that the practitioners of Qigong do not require TCM to sustain their health. However, those who study TCM is to help others with illnesses.

Edited May 13, 2014 by ChiDragon

[dogson]

YES thank you for this post!!!!! I find this at times totally excruciating, like studying with Big Frantzis and feeling his fa jing, seeing him move plates in his head, all these demonstrations of mastery of his art, and then he'd sit there sucking down 2 liters of starbucks coffee. And I thought to myself, what would this guy look like if he actually took care of his body on the basic dietary level? Would he be less of a jerk?

 

Same when I study with intense superfood gurus like David Wolfe, who I respect immensely and who has turned me on to so many magical things. He eats like people will in the year 3,000 growing microalgaes on solar bioorgone accumulators, but he says meditation is too boring, he does chi gong occasionally, but not really - wow.

 

So I look at people like this and, maybe this is just my own mission - what are we REALLY capable of as beings? How can we avoid the "OK PLATEAU" where our effort just stays at the "I guess it's OK" level, versus being really aggressive about personal growth and evolution? At what point did Big Frantzis say, fuck it, I drink starbucks if I feel like it? Because that equals death to me. Which is why I forum roll with all you amazing beings every day, it keeps my mind focused on my mission in life.

 

Much love.

[dogson]

Respectfully, diet does matter, tremendously. Look, I respect these people I mentioned tremendously, which is why I was willing to spend my time and money to travel to them and study and learn from them. I am someone who looks really deeply into things, and I really believe the subject matter - chi gong, diet, meditation, whatever - the reason we are engaging in these activities is to evolve, or to regain a state which we have lost due to the structure of our world at present. So why wouldn't you do everything in your power to reach that?

 

Please understand, I'm not judging these people in the sense of saying that their work is worthless, it's been instrumental in my own learning and evolution. I'm judging because the rational ability to judge is part of what allows us to grow. Frantzis and Wolfe are two of my biggest heroes, and in some sense I idolize them. It just shocked me to see how even people who have attained such a high state of mastery in one area seem to completely ignore other areas. It's that *mentality* I want to discuss, saying a gigantic part of our life, such as diet, doesn't matter. Do a couple shots of whiskey, or eat a block of cheese and tell me it doesn't matter... everything matters.

[exorcist_1699]

In recent years , Western veterinarians , based on the medical theory they are told by the Chinese, start to apply acupuncture on animals . For example a horse its tongue covered with a layer of yellow moss ,plus its eyes decorated with red lines, can be diagnosed as having a " hot " symptom, and certain acupuncture points on its feet may be taken for a treatment.

Up to this moment, assume that you are a veterinarian , you are happy about having learnt another new means of treating the pets of your clients, and it is really not complicated because a horse, dog, cat..are mammals that have a form close to humans' which you can make some kind of comparison to work out their channels and acupuncture points .... A horse, likely also has its Du & Ren channels same as ours , and, if a horse is clever enough and bears some good karma, it may do its own Micro-cosmic circulation and become a horse-immortal ( just kidding..)

Unfortunately on one morning , one of your clients comes and brings along with him an octopus, saying that it is his pet, and he wants some acupuncture treatment on it , then where can you start?

The next morning, another lady comes and brings in a scorpion , or a snail ....

If you are not that knowledgeable & creative in TCM , or if you know not deep enough about the yang (qi) and yin ( topology of how those acupuncture points distributed on living things ) stuff , you are stound and can't do your job well.

Similarly , it is likely that a qigong practitioner can't handle those strange problems on her long road towards health / immortality if she doesn't know TCM well.

Edited May 19, 2014 by exorcist_1699

[Xunzi]

Hi everyone,

 

I've been practicing Taijiquan for a few months now. Fangsong, Dantian rotation, and Silk Reeling. I've also been celibate for over 100 days now.

 

Starting about two weeks ago I noticed i've become stupider. I have gained some difficulty in reading and understanding subtlety in meaning.

 

I've been under HUGE amounts of stress so that's what I thought it was. But on a hunch, I did dawei-laoshi's oil mediation with dantian breathing

 

http://thetaobums.co...-head/?p=487536

 

and after only a couple reps, my mind returned to normal and I felt very relaxed and blissful. I felt like I was melting into the chair I was lying on.

 

Now my mind is starting is falter again. Any ideas what's going on?

 

I do find it hard to relax my chest during Taiji. Today during post standing the center of my chest hurt and felt cold. Maybe that is also part of the problem. This has happened before. My teacher said not to worry.

 

 

Thank you so much.

 

crossposted from: thetaobums.com/topic/34853-i-feel-stupid-and-slow/

[exorcist_1699]

 

I completely agree with this. Knowledge of TCM has been invaluable to me, especially knowledge of herbs, which Westerners in particular seem determined to ignore. There is a reason for why they ignore them and it is not a good one, but has to do with unexamined cultural memes related to the permeation of Western Culture by attitudes and ideas that can be traced back to the influence of Rene Descartes and his mind/body dualism. I call this condition 'Closet Cartesianism'. If you know what to look for you can find it all over the Tao Bums.

 

 

I'll have to check it out.

 

 

The Chinese herbs, in fact , includes all things from plants, minerals, shells, insect to animals ,in sea or on land....the range it covers is very wide and deep. How different parts of plants correspond to different parts of the human body, why certain herb is classified as the medicine for specific meridian..etc is very interesting , and in fact, it is in TCM that a complete ,detailed view on the Taoist world of qi is fully manifested .

Edited May 19, 2014 by exorcist_1699

[iradie]

Based on this TCM rule, similarly , before we start practicing qigong , purifying our mind first should always be given the top priority, without it , the evil element , that dark-side power , will be multiplied together with the expansion of our qi and shen, leading to a status that we can't control it , its damage outweighs its benefit to us .

 

As a Chinese saying tells us :

 

" 道高一尺, 魔高一丈 " (As Tao rises , the Evil also rises, even outpaces it ) .

 

From this perspective, a long and painstaking process of polishing our character and morals is something needed , and it is better than those quick and easy ones that people propose .

 

Don't worry about your incapacity in initializing that great power , worry more about when it comes to you, your ability to accommodate it , to make use of it appropriately.

 

.............................

 

Besides, there are some Chinese herbs that can guide our qi to specific part of our body, which make them a means for curing :

 

- 桂枝(Gui Zhi) : can guide qi to the upper limbs or fingers;

 

-杜仲(Du Zhong) : can guide qi to our waist or back ;

 

- 牛膝( Niu Xi ) : can guide qi to our feet or toes.

 

 

Simply speaking, if you get qi always rushing out of your control to your head , you may adopt a treatment that combines drinking a soup of Niu Xi with your mind focused to the acupuncture point : Yong quan .

Thank you exorcist_1699, its very interesting and inspiring.

 

As well what you say about the evil elements which can rise during the work with the qi, and the comparison with the plants that tonify. It immediatly became more clear to me. it gives me a clue.

I also like a lot what you write about the "guide plants" and how to use them for balancing the energy in the body during meditation. I had never thought of using them that way !!! good idea. I will try.

 

 

 

 

I completely agree with this. Knowledge of TCM has been invaluable to me, especially knowledge of herbs, which Westerners in particular seem determined to ignore. There is a reason for why they ignore them and it is not a good one, but has to do with unexamined cultural memes related to the permeation of Western Culture by attitudes and ideas that can be traced back to the influence of Rene Descartes and his mind/body dualism. I call this condition 'Closet Cartesianism'. If you know what to look for you can find it all over the Tao Bums.

 

 

I'll have to check it out.

 

 

Yes, and don't you also think this body/mind dualism comes from the christian religion and way it developed in the middle age ? The body linked to the material world, the spirit linked to heaven and god and the opposition created between them as the evil and the good.

 

As a teenager I felt releaved when I first came in contact with the Asian philosophies. It gave the opportunity to question the body/mind opposition we have been raised in in the west.

Truly it is one of the main differences between the western and the asian cultures. Maybe we should say between the western culture and all the others.

Edited May 21, 2014 by iradie

[iradie]

I have been thinking about this topic since yesterday.

 

If I have heard and understood it right, my teacher often says that the goal of our work as pratitioners of chinese medicine is not to treat, not to cure, but to help people have a good health, so they can live long and realise themselves during this life.

 

In my work, I often think about that.

 

What guided me on this way, was a dynamic between my attraction, excitement, curiosity for the spiritual dimension and the necessity to find an inner balance if I should realise and be able to walk this way. So I started to be interested in plants, different forms of alternative western medicin, until I arrived to chinese medicine in the search for a system which combined a rational and scientific aproach with a spiritual dimension and the work on the qi.

And I found out, chinese medicine is a very good tool to improve the mental and physical health and to gain a physical, and mental and emotional balance.

 

It must be said that chinese medicine is not daoism, but chinese medicine can be a way of the dao.

 

Having a good health is valuable when we pratice. If I take the syndrome of fire in the heart it is easy to understand. If you have too much fire or yin deficiency in the heart, you cannot concentrate and the thoughts run as wild horses in your head. If you treat with chinese medicine, the thoughts will calm down, and it will be easier to start meditating and concentrating.

 

But you could also say that if you start concentrating and calming the emotions, certainly your heart fire will also calm down. Then it is maybe only a question of time and how far the patology has reached.

Sometimes I think the treatment should be less and the personal efforts more important. Anyway, the treatment is not enough and without inner work to calm the emotions, the treatment does not last.

 

I have seen many people in the west (and been one of them), who pratice inner alchemy or just start to do meditation or the small circulation, who do not have good masters to guide them, and many have symtoms, somtimes illnesses because of erroneous pratice.

Chinese medicine is then a way to regain the balance, because we understant the process of the illness. As we pratice in difficult conditions (often alone), chinese medicine can help us keep balance through our search.

Sometimes I ask myself if pratice does not stir up latent illnesses.

 

Chinese medicine and my spiritual research is intertwined because I have been searching how to earn my living in a way which did not prevent to search for the dao and which eventually could help to be on the way. Working with chinese medicine is the best way I found.

 

Last but not least chinese medicine is based on the same cosmogony, cosmology and philosphy as daoism studying one of them helps understanding the other. But that is a hole other discussion.

Edited May 21, 2014 by iradie

[exorcist_1699]

Thank you exorcist_1699, its very interesting and inspiring.

 

As well what you say about the evil elements which can rise during the work with the qi, and the comparison with the plants that tonify. It immediatly became more clear to me. it gives me a clue.

I also like a lot what you write about the "guide plants" and how to use them for balancing the energy in the body during meditation. I had never thought of using them that way !!! good idea. I will try.

 

 

 

 

HI, Iradie

 

Thank you for reading such a difficult topic; in fact, before I wrote it, I expected no or not much feedback for TCM, especially its herb-related part, is quite difficult . Please try any herb in small dosage ( say 3~4 grams) first before proceeding to ordinary dosage. Of course, if you already know them well, then it is another story.

Edited May 22, 2014 by exorcist_1699

[iradie]

Hi, exorscist_1699

 

What do you think about using herbs to tonify the yang in the pratice of Neidan? I have heard and read some people do that.

 

From what I have learnt the most important is to keep a yin/yang balance in the body. Tonifying the yang if there is yang deficiency is fine, but if there is not, you could create un unbalance and do more wrong than good. For Each person it should be different, but if you where using herbs for this purpose, which ones would you select, and in which situations ?

[thelerner]

TCM runs so deep it can be intimidating. I haven't studied it, but I use and contemplate Chinese 5 element theory. When making decisions try to see which element is at play and whether I want to add, negate or evolve it.

[Zhongyongdaoist]

The Chinese herbs, in fact , includes all things from plants, minerals, shells, insect to animals ,in sea or on land....the range it covers is very wide and deep. How different parts of plants correspond to different parts of the human body, why certain herb is classified as the medicine for specific meridian..etc is very interesting , and in fact, it is in TCM that a complete ,detailed view on the Taoist world of qi is fully manifested .

 

includes all things from plants, minerals, shells, insect to animals ,in sea or on land....the range it covers is very wide and deep: Thank you for pointing that out 'exorcist_1699', I was using 'herbs' in a very informal way and though I was already aware of the scope of the TCM materia medica, I am sure that others benefited from this information.

 

How different parts of plants correspond to different parts of the human body, why certain herb is classified as the medicine for specific meridian..etc is very interesting : Inspired by the stories told of Shennong, traditional TCM instruction would combine taking the herbs and deep meditation so that one could learn to feel their actions in ones own body. There are interesting practices that can develop from this:

 

Shennong is credited with identifying hundreds of medical (and poisonous) herbs by personally testing their properties, which was crucial to the development of Traditional Chinese medicine. Legend holds that Shennong had a transparent body, and thus could see the effects of different plants and herbs on himself. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shennong)

 

This quote from Mencius is also extremely important for understanding the worldview from which this wonderful wisdom is derived:

 

7A:4

萬物皆備於我矣。反身而誠、樂莫大焉。彊恕而行、求仁莫近焉。

(Mencius translated by A. C. Muller)

 

`All the ten thousand things are there in me. There is no greater joy for me than to find, on self-examination, that I am true to myself. Try your best to treat others as you would wish to be treated yourself, and you will find that this is the shortest way to benevolence.'

(D. C. Lau, Mencius, Penguin Books, 1970, p. 182, Emphasis mine, ZYD)

 

This is of course the correspondence between the microcosm and the macrocosm, which is the basis not only of the Daoist worldview, but also the Mencian branch of Confucianism.

 

it is in TCM that a complete ,detailed view on the Taoist world of qi is fully manifested: Yes, this is part of what makes TCM, not only a useful study in terms of how it can benefit your health and guide your practice, but also a profound study, realizing the wholeness and interconnectedness of the world.

[Zhongyongdaoist]

Yes, and don't you also think this body/mind dualism comes from the christian religion and way it developed in the middle age ? The body linked to the material world, the spirit linked to heaven and god and the opposition created between them as the evil and the good.

 

As a teenager I felt releaved when I first came in contact with the Asian philosophies. It gave the opportunity to question the body/mind opposition we have been raised in in the west.

Truly it is one of the main differences between the western and the asian cultures. Maybe we should say between the western culture and all the others.

 

 

Hello 'iradie',

 

Thank you for your question, I am sorry to be so long in replying to it. The worldview of the Middle Ages was radically different from that which was proposed and generally adopted during the Seventeenth Century. The worldview throughout the Middle Ages was based on ancient Greek philosophy, especially the synthesis of Plato and Aristotle which was worked out in the Middle Platonist period and perfected by the late Platonists such as Plotinus, etc., and was holistic and organic. Granted Heaven may pull us one way and the World another, but there was a fundamental wholeness to it which is completely sundered by events in the Seventeenth Century.

 

It started with Pierre Gassendi's revival of Epicureanism and was most influential in the Philosophy of Descartes, who perhaps to his credit created a world view that was not purely materialist like the Epicurean one, still resulted in a damaging dichotomy.

 

By postulating that Mind and Matter were two exclusive substances, Mind a 'thinking substance' and matter and 'extended substance', he left no way for them to interact, all bodies perceptible by sense, whether animate or inanimate were ruled by purely mechanical causes, this made animals machines and the universe a giant mechanical clockwork. Even the human body was a machine, which somehow or other also managed to maintain some connection to the 'thinking substance'. Descartes postulated that the connection was the pineal gland, but it didn't take long for people to realize that the pineal gland would also be part of the 'extended substance' and thus part of the machine and of no use in explaining mind/body interaction.

 

This is the whole origin of 'the ghost in the machine' that haunts Western Culture. Pretty much all Western Philosophy after 1700 is infected with it and either comes up with a clumsy work around or banishes the 'ghost' from the 'machine' and embraces a pure mechanistic materialism, or rejects the 'machine' as unreal and an illusion, and declares the 'ghost' to be the only real thing. This is the origin of modern materialism in the late Eighteenth Century and also of the 'Romanicist Rebellion' against it starting around 1800 and basing itself on Kant's clumsy work around, by sundering mind into 'reason' and 'understanding', which were, as mutually exclusive 'faculties', as much a problem as the one they were intended to solve.

 

This is of course a very superficial account of a long,complex period of development, but all that I have time for right now.

[exorcist_1699]

Hi, exorscist_1699

 

What do you think about using herbs to tonify the yang in the pratice of Neidan? I have heard and read some people do that.

 

From what I have learnt the most important is to keep a yin/yang balance in the body. Tonifying the yang if there is yang deficiency is fine, but if there is not, you could create un unbalance and do more wrong than good. For Each person it should be different, but if you where using herbs for this purpose, which ones would you select, and in which situations ?

I have to say that we can take Chinese herbs to help our practice , even use acupuncture to help our qigong, it is especially meaningful for old people ; but why seldom we hear people talking about it , the reason I think of likely are :

Qigong masters always think the methods they preach are good enough , there is no need to ask people to take herbs or other means to help ; on the other hand, because many acupuncturists and TCM doctors can't initialize qi or experience it themselves directly ( the " feeling of qi" on the needles , which experienced by most acupuncturists are, regretfully not a direct experience ) , of course , they can't combine herbal treatment and acupuncture with qigong practice.

Old people who are weak in qi or jing can drink Ginseng, Dang gui..to improve the effects of their practice; Because nearly all Chinese herbs can be made as a plaster to stick , a hot soup to steam our body , a pillow to sleep on.. ( the so-called 'external treatment ''外治" ) , by combining them with our meditation, for example , faster and more effective results can be attained.

The benefit of the external treatment is , whenever you get bad feeling from it, you can remove it , while a swallowed medicine can't come out of our body so quickly...

Keen guys may then think of sticking a plaster , with qi-enhancing herbals , to their qi-hai area ( in case of ladies, to their " Dan zhong " 　’膻中’　area ) so as to arouse the qi they never experienced before , or to enhance the qi they think too weak.... (Warning: before you guys take any action , you must know the herbs , acupuncture points and Taoist jing-qi-shen stuff very well, otherwise ideal or safe results can't be attained.)

Edited May 27, 2014 by exorcist_1699

[nestentrie]

I"m gonna do a MarbleHead here and say that while I like this *thread (and think it's important), I don't have any inclination to weigh in with opinion about it.

 

Except for one thing: I liked iradie's first post.

 

*

Edited June 21, 2014 by nestentrie