Your views on the concepts of 'Yin Qi' and 'Yang Qi'

[NotVoid]

I am curious what people's views are on the concepts of 'yin qi' and 'yang qi', and what the sources are for your views on such things. For example, do you think that there are two distinct forms of qi, one of which is pure yin and one of which is pure yang, or do you think that such expressions are really just indicating the relative characteristics or qualities of certain forms of qi, such as Earth qi is more yin as compared to Heaven qi, and Heaven qi is more yang as compared to Earth qi, etc., or do you think the concept of there being such things as 'yin qi' and 'yang qi' is just plain wrong? Also, I would be interested in hearing what people are basing their views on. Is this something you have been taught from a certain tradition or teacher, or how did you come to your view? I have never been a big question asker when I have interacted with teachers, so I have never asked any of my teachers over the years specifically about this.

Edited May 14, 2014 by NotVoid

[Andrei]

In my opinion yin qi is static electricity which is plenty inside earth, in electronics it is called "ground".

Yang qi is light and heat from radiation like sun light or stars.

Both of them are electromagnetism just are different states of the same force, which is electromagnetic force.

So I may say that the yin qi particle is the electron and yang qi particle is the photon. But there are many degrees of yang and yin.

Like an electric current is more yang because is more dynamic, produces friction and heat and light than a magnetic field which is yin because is passive, it just attracts static charges.

[NotVoid]

Andrei, Ok that's interesting. What leads you to think that this may be the case? In my own experience, doing certain practices I can feel something streaming into the lao gong points on my hands, and this can occur during complete darkness at night or during the day. Whatever is streaming in can be so strong that I sometimes feel a pressure pushing on my hands. Whatever it is that is streaming in does not seem to correlate directly to physical light based on the fact that this occurs equally as strong at night or day. Also, other practices such as stillness meditation seem to cause/allow qi of some form to increase and accumulate, although I have no idea where this qi may be coming from since I am just sitting calm and stilling my mind as best I can. I personally am not convinced that things are so straightforward. I have run across descriptions of celestial or universe qi (AKA Heaven qi), which may well be related to what I experience when I experience qi of some sort streaming in through the lao gong points, but qi also accumulating through stillness practice seems to be working on some other principle, but I don't know for certain what that may be.

 

There is also a concept of 'ling qi' which I have heard of which seems to be something along the lines of either universe qi or possibly spiritual qi, but I have only heard this word spoken, so I don't know which specific Chinese character corresponds to this 'ling'. Someone here may know however.

Edited May 14, 2014 by NotVoid

[joeblast]

I think the qualitative manifestations of qi are certainly beyond simple yin and yang. Yin and Yang are merely relational concepts. More like flavors instead of sides of a coin.

[Silent Answers]

From what I've experienced...They are in constant exchange, so much so that you might think of them as one, as neither can exist without the other.

 

Someone can correct me if they know better:

 

Space is Yin, while Stars are the manifestation of Yang, in consequence giving rise to Yin (planets and other matter) and combined give rise to life, which can be either and support one another. There are infinite modes of Yin and Yang which is why it's impossible to fathom as they dance around. That's why we can only really attempt to group most into one or the other... but within each group there are also levels of Yin and Yang...so it's easy to get confused.

 

As for you feeling Yang at night, our sun is not the only source of Yang and you might be drawing it in from elsewhere... but that's not to say that you cant still receive the Sun's Qi just because your part of the Earth is currently facing away from it. The moon is reflecting some of that back onto the Earth at night and light reaches us from distant stars, even if it is faintly..

 

Bottom line, it's an endless subject with no definitive answer...feel it rather than try to know it.

[NotVoid]

I think the qualitative manifestations of qi are certainly beyond simple yin and yang. Yin and Yang are merely relational concepts. More like flavors instead of sides of a coin.

Right, this would be my own impression as well, based on my own limited experience, but, then again, many traditions do seem to indicate that Earth qi is closely associated with 'yin' while universe qi/Heaven qi is closely associated with 'yang'. I don't know that there is really any straightforward answers to any of this, but I am interested in how people from different backgrounds and experience view such things. I am wondering if there is much consensus at all about such things from different traditions.

Edited May 14, 2014 by NotVoid

[NotVoid]

As for you feeling Yang at night, our sun is not the only source of Yang and you might be drawing it in from elsewhere... but that's not to say that you cant still receive the Sun's Qi just because your part of the Earth is currently facing away from it. The moon is reflecting some of that back onto the Earth at night and light reaches us from distant stars, even if it is faintly..

Sure, as 'universe qi' suggests that this qi may be coming from different sources throughout the universe such as maybe stars, or maybe just permeates the universe. I don't know if what streams into the laogong say during zhan zhuang is more yin or yang, and that may vary depending on the exact practice, or if that even applies, but perhaps a person can learn to differentiate such things better with more experience...

Edited May 14, 2014 by NotVoid

[Andrei]

I sometimes feel a pressure pushing on my hands. Whatever it is that is streaming in does not seem to correlate directly to physical light based on the fact that this occurs equally as strong at night or day.

 

What you feel are electrical signals from your tactile nerves on the skin that goes to your brain. So whatever it is, is still an electrical signal, wether the feeling is hot or cold, pleasurable or painful.

 

Also, other practices such as stillness meditation seem to cause/allow qi of some form to increase and accumulate, although I have no idea where this qi may be coming from since I am just sitting calm and stilling my mind as best I can.

 

The qi is coming from atmosphere wherever you are. All atmosphere is charged with ions, all substances on this planet are ions, either are crystals or rocks or just ozone or gases, all are electrical ions. Except water which is neutral, but even water can be charged with ions. If the Ph is > 7 you have a water charged with negative ions, if the Ph < 7 the water is charged with positive ions. When you eat food, you eat ions. when you burn the food in your mythocondrias you produce ions either positives or negatives. if the ions are positives (lack of free electrons) the energy is Yang. If the ions are negatives (surplus of free electrons) the energy is Yin.

 

The electrons with lower energy stay calm and don't leave, they stay on orbits captured by nucleus of the atom but if they receive a photon from somwhere else they became excited, their energy increase, their frequency increase, they go on a higher energy orbit and if the atom does not have enough attraction energy they leave, they shoot out in space.

 

X-rays are electrons highly charged with photon energy and they can penetrate anything, except maybe metals that can capture them in orbit.

 

I will continue when I have some time. Anyways very interesting topic

[ChiDragon]

I am curious what people's views are on the concepts of 'yin qi' and 'yang qi', and what the sources are for your views on such things. For example,

 

1.do you think that there are two distinct forms of qi, one of which is pure yin and one of which is pure yang,

 

2.or do you think that such expressions are really just indicating the relative characteristics or qualities of certain forms of qi, such as Earth qi is more yin as compared to Heaven qi, and Heaven qi is more yang as compared to Earth qi, etc.,

 

3.or do you think the concept of there being such things as 'yin qi' and 'yang qi' is just plain wrong?

 

4. Also, I would be interested in hearing what people are basing their views on. Is this something you have been taught from a certain tradition or teacher, or how did you come to your view?

 

I have never been a big question asker when I have interacted with teachers, so I have never asked any of my teachers over the years specifically about this.

 

1. Yes. There is a distinction.

 

2. Yes, in accord with the Yi Jing(易經).

 

3. 1 and 2 will answer no to that.

 

4. The original concept of yin-yang was from the Yi Jing.

Edited May 15, 2014 by ChiDragon

[joeblast]

Right, this would be my own impression as well, based on my own limited experience, but, then again, many traditions do seem to indicate that Earth qi is closely associated with 'yin' while universe qi/Heaven qi is closely associated with 'yang'. I don't know that there is really any straightforward answers to any of this, but I am interested in how people from different backgrounds and experience view such things. I am wondering if there is much consensus at all about such things from different traditions.

Key verbiage, closely associated with. How would a black hole fit into such a paradigm? How about a supermassive one at the center of a galaxy? Hm, how would a great void (think bootes) fit?

 

Yin and Yang are relational, so when you're working with a couple certain things rather prominently in the foreground, it is easy to relate them to yin and yang. So what if you're working with organs in your meditation? Or energy centers? They could be categorized thusly...but would they necessarily need to be?

 

What you feel are electrical signals from your tactile nerves on the skin that goes to your brain. So whatever it is, is still an electrical signal, wether the feeling is hot or cold, pleasurable or painful.

 

 

The qi is coming from atmosphere wherever you are. All atmosphere is charged with ions, all substances on this planet are ions, either are crystals or rocks or just ozone or gases, all are electrical ions. Except water which is neutral, but even water can be charged with ions. If the Ph is > 7 you have a water charged with negative ions, if the Ph < 7 the water is charged with positive ions. When you eat food, you eat ions. when you burn the food in your mythocondrias you produce ions either positives or negatives. if the ions are positives (lack of free electrons) the energy is Yang. If the ions are negatives (surplus of free electrons) the energy is Yin.

 

The electrons with lower energy stay calm and don't leave, they stay on orbits captured by nucleus of the atom but if they receive a photon from somwhere else they became excited, their energy increase, their frequency increase, they go on a higher energy orbit and if the atom does not have enough attraction energy they leave, they shoot out in space.

 

X-rays are electrons highly charged with photon energy and they can penetrate anything, except maybe metals that can capture them in orbit.

 

I will continue when I have some time. Anyways very interesting topic

now, I wonder how something like a neutrino is felt/affects the energybody...yang, yin?

 

are the ions created by electrochemical means equivalent to those created by electromagnetic means? equal, perhaps, congruent, I think not!

[Andrei]

 

1. now, I wonder how something like a neutrino is felt/affects the energybody...yang, yin?

 

2. are the ions created by electrochemical means equivalent to those created by electromagnetic means? equal, perhaps, congruent, I think not!

 

1. I think it affects, I don't know how.

 

2. I think yes, they are the same ions, same electrons. We live in an electric universe.

[NotVoid]

 

What you feel are electrical signals from your tactile nerves on the skin that goes to your brain. So whatever it is, is still an electrical signal, wether the feeling is hot or cold, pleasurable or painful.

 

...

 

The qi is coming from atmosphere wherever you are. All atmosphere is charged with ions, all substances on this planet are ions, either are crystals or rocks or just ozone or gases, all are electrical ions. Except water which is neutral, but even water can be charged with ions.

It goes much beyond sensations in the hands. Whatever is affecting the lao gong points, moves through the whole body, and can have very noticeable impact on the body with continued practice, such as increase in energy levels and improvement in health. Experience would seem to indicate that whatever is going on is more than just sensations, at least.

 

In regards to ideas about photons and ions, there may possibly be correlations, and to cosmic rays, etc., but until strong correlations can be shown then it is just ideas or possibilities that may be considered.

 

In my own very limited experience, what is termed 'qi' does seem to be able to have different forms and show different qualities. While there may possibly be connections to what you describe, this may only be a part of it, and the concept of qi may possibly include other phenomena which as yet are still not understood, or it might be something altogether different than what we might imagine. Just as an example, in the internal martial arts there are considered to be different levels of attainment which correspond to a person's internal cultivation level. The internal experience changes over time as transformations occur, as does the interaction between internal and external change. There are various levels of attainment with different 'things' going on depending on the level of attainment.

Edited May 15, 2014 by NotVoid

[NotVoid]

1. Yes. There is a distinction.

2. Yes, in accord with the Yi Jing(易經).

3. 1 and 2 will answer no to that.

4. The original concept of yin-yang was from the Yi Jing.

Yes, I think there does seem to be a theoretical basis to these concepts going all the way back to such ancient Chinese writings. It is just a matter of trying to make sense of these 'theories' in a practical sense, and being able to relate it in a meaningful way to one's personal experience...

[NotVoid]

Key verbiage, closely associated with. How would a black hole fit into such a paradigm? How about a supermassive one at the center of a galaxy? Hm, how would a great void (think bootes) fit?

 

Yin and Yang are relational, so when you're working with a couple certain things rather prominently in the foreground, it is easy to relate them to yin and yang. So what if you're working with organs in your meditation? Or energy centers? They could be categorized thusly...but would they necessarily need to be?

I hear what you are saying, but I think it is quite easy to get off track with this sort of thing. I am asking primarily about people's views and personal experience on the concepts on yin and yang as it relates to qi. For example, the view that 'Earth qi' is 'yin', and 'Heaven qi' is 'yang'. While I have had some experience with this qualitatively through zhan zhuang practice, I can't say that I could really make such clear distinctions, but that may be a matter of level of attainment and ability to perceive into deeper levels of subtlety. Perhaps somewhat further down the road in my practice this will begin to make more sense on an experiential level.

[joeblast]

I hear what you are saying, but I think it is quite easy to get off track with this sort of thing. I am asking primarily about people's views and personal experience on the concepts on yin and yang as it relates to qi. For example, the view that 'Earth qi' is 'yin', and 'Heaven qi' is 'yang'. While I have had some experience with this qualitatively through zhan zhuang practice, I can't say that I could really make such clear distinctions, but that may be a matter of level of attainment and ability to perceive into deeper levels of subtlety. Perhaps somewhat further down the road in my practice this will begin to make more sense on an experiential level.

Before you go on worrying about yin or yang qi of earth or heaven, it is necessary to cultivate the fundamentals that produce the ability to discern relative yin or yang amongst one's own energy centers...only once those are cultivated to a certain extent does earthly or heavenly have sufficient signal to noise ratio to be differentiated.

 

Firstly the mind moves yang to gain control over the breathing and bodily mechanisms resulting in a quiescent relative yin state, this first combining of awareness and stillness then continues its sinusoid and rebounds a yang manifestation at the lower dt, which further cultivated ascends and alights the niwan and further yang is generated by the force of streamlined endocrine dynamics.

 

Can take the same approach with laogung and yongquan breathing, this is where the aforementioned communication will accelerate, especially when complimented by cultivation of prerequisite fundamentals. Read my laogung/yongquan thread and think about the laogung techniques and then the analog yongquan techniques.

 

You really only start differentiating from the experience you get from diligent practice.

 

Once that above signal to noise ratios are streamlined well, then the organs will begin to have differentiable signal to noise ratios also as the body is cultivated further.

 

Yeah there's yin and yang, but its a lil more complex than that, it is a matrixed approach.

[NotVoid]

...

Yeah there's yin and yang, but its a lil more complex than that, it is a matrixed approach.

I still can't say that I have any clear idea what your own personal view is on yin and yang as it relates to distinct forms/sources/qualites of qi. Do you think qi can be categorized as yin or yang? If so what leads you to your view?

[Andrei]

Mind is gravity, a different kind of force.

[joeblast]

I still can't say that I have any clear idea what your own personal view is on yin and yang as it relates to distinct forms/sources/qualites of qi. Do you think qi can be categorized as yin or yang? If so what leads you to your view?

its a relational concept, and qi comes in many flavours...what's led me, fundamentals and observation

[NotVoid]

Surely others must have some sort of view or experience about this? What is your experience or understanding of the concepts of yin and yang as it relates to qi? Can some forms of qi be considered to be more yang or yin than other forms? Another example is the sun is supposed to emit very yang qi while the moon emits very yin qi... Do you feel such differences, and if so, in what ways do you experience this differently?

 

Edited May 16, 2014 by NotVoid

[Ish]

Yin qi = LDT related energy, sexual energy, jing

Yang qi = UDT related energy, spiritual energy, shen.

 

 

There is a process of refinement of ones energy, from yin to yang to beyond

[Andrei]

Another example is the sun is supposed to emit very yang qi while the moon emits very yin qi... Do you feel such differences, and if so, in what ways do you experience this differently?

 

 

This is a misunderstanding. The sun emit yang energy which is shen actually. The moon has different effects. The moon itself as a celestial body provides gravity, which is a yin energy, that creates wave tides. If the wave tides happen in the seas and oceans then for sure it happen inside our bodies. It has the effect of raising the jing inside the body. The moon is most yin when is new moon because sunlight is absent. When moon is full the energy is mixed, because is night the energy is yin but because the moon reflects the sunlight is the yang' est night. It has both effects, raised jing and maximum shen reflected from the sun.

 

The yang energy is cultivated absorbing sun and full moon energy through sun gazing and moon gazing. The sunlight should be absorbed through the left eye in the sun channel (i don't know which is which, but should be Ida or Pingala). The full moon energy which is still yang but is a lesser yang should be absorbed through the right eye into the right channel. Left versus right channel is more yang, and right channel is more yin but both of them have shen light. The shen mix with the jing in the organs and channels and produces qi. And now the qi can have different qualities, can be more yin, more yang, less yin, less yang, depends with what you compare these qualities.

[NotVoid]

Ish and Andrei: Thanks for the comments...

[z00se]

Just from personal experience within my body lab....

 

Yin energy is more physical, more pushing power, slower and cooler and denser (just like the normal yin discription)

 

Yang energy is faster moving, penetrates easily yet doesn't push the physical as easily. Super yang pushes nothing and permates everything.

 

I had lots of experience with this inside my own body. You can mix and match to reach various consistancies of energy.

 

I don't think there is only refinement from yin to yang, there could equally be refinement from yang to yin (as is more what i practice).

 

Yang can change to yin and vise versa, it is all one. Plus yang and yin are relative just like more so of less so, but in either direction. But certainly they can be identified individually if we try.

 

I think the energies within our own bodies are refined, Trying to take identical energies from outside.... they just don't seem as smooth and as nice as the energies already internal. That is the refinement i believe, refining outer energies to use within.

 

 

Another example is the sun is supposed to emit very yang qi while the moon emits very yin qi... Do you feel such differences, and if so, in what ways do you experience this differently?

 

EG. Moon moves the ocean and changes the tides (pushing power). Sun doesn't but heats things and provides energy. Energy in a different form. Both of these are semi yin and semi yang however. The stars are more yang, but you can't 'feel' the heat like you can from the sun, it is more yang and less substatial. The earth you can feel much more solidly than the moon's pull, therefore it is more yin and more substatial. People have their bodies and electrical signals through the nerves, we are yang within yin, but also yang outside (aura) and yin inside (bone).

 

The yin / yang factor of qi as discussed is important but only part of it, the location of the qi, and what the qi is doing, and how it is changing is also all important, all these things are changing factors and are equally strong yet different ways.

 

qi, spiritual energy, spiritual direction, steller energy, electricity, physical vibrations like renaissance and sound, chemical energy, and kinetic energy (+ more i'm sure). Where is the line between qi and energy, i don't know. It is all qi but we don't all think of it as such. Each has a different or higher or lower frequency. Low frequency has a more direct ability to do work. High frequency or yang energy has the ability to change the work required so that no work needs to be done.

 

All up we need both

[z00se]

Oh yes, and 'ling' means zero, if it is the right ling i'm thinking of. So zero chi? spiritual chi has no push but goes through lead, that is my experience with it!

[NotVoid]

Thanks for the comments on your experience and views Zoose.

There are several Chinese characters that can be transliterated as ling.
Here are two possibilities which may fit, but either of these two characters might not be the actual Chinese character used in the expression of 'ling qi' which I have heard of. I was told that it meant something like spiritual qi or cosmic qi, but I did not get a clear definition.

龗 - ling - dragon/spirit; divinity
霊 - ling - spirit, soul; spiritual world

Edited May 20, 2014 by NotVoid