verse 11

[3deedit]

 

[silent thunder]

I absolutely love this verse. It's the one that peaked my interest in Taoism.

[Marblehead]

During my years of practicle, functional, materialistic life I viewed this concept differently. But since my acceptance of the concept of "useful/useless (for me)" my view has changed dramatically. This verse supports my new view.

[Stosh]

Thats a nice unambiguous rendition 3deedit .

(though the implication that the spokes recapitulate the physical geometry of the cup and arched entryway is a bit of a stretch,, and IMO misleads from the abstraction of emptiness in a way that undermines the text a bit ,,, but like I said , Im pleasantly affirmative of the text.)

 

Im just wondering what specifically your new view of useful is MH,, vs what it was.

[silent thunder]

From my version of the Tao Haiku

Thirty spokes form wheel.
Within the empty center,
source of wheels' motion.

Clay shaped into pot,
yet the space inside becomes
that which is useful.

Form walls into house.
Emptiness inside allows
space in which we live.

Form provides framework;
usefulness in emptiness,
both spring from the Tao

[Marblehead]

Im just wondering what specifically your new view of useful is MH,, vs what it was.

Actually, my new view regarding useful/useless was a successful alternative to a totally dualistic view. Previously, useless was a universal valuation but now it is limited to only me. That is to say, just because something is useless to me doesn't mean it is useless to someone else. With this view I am able to nullify many potential dualities (good/bad).

[GrandmasterP]

Spot on MH.

' Thusness'

 

Thus.....

It's useless to me maybe but someone else sees it and says...

"Wow this is just the 'thus' that I need to get this job done here."

Edited May 21, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Brian]

It is generally a time-relative concept too, MH. Utility is context-sensitive.

 

EDIT: I'm guessing the space-relative aspect is apparent?

Edited May 22, 2014 by Brian

[3deedit]

from the same source came a "proof" that Pi=constant=3,1415926

see: https://www.facebook.com/rik.deedit

[soaring crane]

 

 

3deedit - why are those three words green and underlined? Are you asking for feedback?

 

#11 is one of the champion verses for me, too. The German translator Günter Debon renders the first phrase thusly:

 

Der Speichen dreimal zehn

Auf einer Nabe stehn

Eben dort, wo sie nicht sind

Ist des Wagens Brauchbarkeit

 

I translate that something along these lines:

 

Spokes, three times ten

Around a hub are fastened

Exactly there, where they are not

Is the wagon's useful spot

 

The 'stehn' at the end of line two in the German basically means 'are' or 'exist'. My 'fastened' isn't the most accurate word, neither is the 'useful spot', but they work poetically and I like poetry :-)

 

IIRC, Debon put effort into rhyming his translation wherever the original does the same. It's relatively easy to do in German, and more of a challenge in English.

 

How does this render in Belgian?

Edited May 22, 2014 by soaring crane

[GrandmasterP]

The master Getsuan said:

 

"Keichu, the first wheel-maker,

 

made two wheels.

 

Each had fifty spokes.

 

Suppose you cut out the hubs.

 

Would there still be a wheel?"

Edited May 22, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Marblehead]

It is generally a time-relative concept too, MH. Utility is context-sensitive.

 

EDIT: I'm guessing the space-relative aspect is apparent?

Oh!, yes indeed. I could speak volumes to this but I won't.

[Marblehead]

The master Getsuan said:

 

"Keichu, the first wheel-maker,

 

made two wheels.

 

Each had fifty spokes.

 

Suppose you cut out the hubs.

 

Would there still be a wheel?"

That sounded Zen to me so I had to look up Getsuan. More Samurai than Zen?

[GrandmasterP]

That sounded Zen to me so I had to look up Getsuan. More Samurai than Zen?

 

Dunno who he was or his dates but that saying pops up in Rinzai Zen tradition Koan collections.

Maybe he was a samurai who became a zennist.

Thing is , to me ; Rinzai is a bit 'samurai'.

All that whaling on poor sitters with a stick.

Not my cuppa tea at all.

Chan suits me best as there's more sitting doing sod all ( I'm good at that) and no whacking.

[Stosh]

The master Getsuan said:

 

"Keichu, the first wheel-maker,

 

made two wheels.

 

Each had fifty spokes.

 

Suppose you cut out the hubs.

 

Would there still be a wheel?"

Yes, theyre unfinished wheels. Clearly They arent bananas.

If I had a tire with a hole in it , is it still a tire?

Do they still charge the disposal fee?

[GrandmasterP]

Talking of tyres and bananas.

True story.

Firestone Tyres ran an advert in the UK many years ago before 'trading standards' became big business claiming that...

"Firestone Tyres are a hundred thousand times tougher and far better across all terrains. FACT."

 

Turns out their comparator to the test- tyre in the lab tests was a banana.

Edited May 22, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[3deedit]

3deedit - why are those three words green and underlined? Are you asking for feedback?

 

#11 is one of the champion verses for me, too. The German translator Günter Debon renders the first phrase thusly:

 

Der Speichen dreimal zehn

Auf einer Nabe stehn

Eben dort, wo sie nicht sind

Ist des Wagens Brauchbarkeit

 

I translate that something along these lines:

 

Spokes, three times ten

Around a hub are fastened

Exactly there, where they are not

Is the wagon's useful spot

 

The 'stehn' at the end of line two in the German basically means 'are' or 'exist'. My 'fastened' isn't the most accurate word, neither is the 'useful spot', but they work poetically and I like poetry :-)

 

IIRC, Debon put effort into rhyming his translation wherever the original does the same. It's relatively easy to do in German, and more of a challenge in English.

 

How does this render in Belgian?

NOPE, i like this duality in colours; to me this verse refers to "solarplexus"

[Marblehead]

And sure, green is a pretty color.

[manitou]

The master Getsuan said:

 

"Keichu, the first wheel-maker,

 

made two wheels.

 

Each had fifty spokes.

 

Suppose you cut out the hubs.

 

Would there still be a wheel?"

 

 

No, but if you were in the Here and Now, you'd know it was time to sit down and play Pick-up Sticks.

[3deedit]

Oh!, yes indeed. I could speak volumes to this but I won't.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=587477768017521&set=pb.166040303494605.-2207520000.1403534929.&type=3&src=https%3A%2F%2Ffbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net%2Fhphotos-ak-xfp1%2Ft1.0-9%2F10492424_587477768017521_2439423076681666011_n.png&size=499%2C506

[Marblehead]

I tried to "like" it but was asked to join first. I don't do that.