taking supplements just as good as practices ? for libido

[Andrei]

We need to look here at how hormones affect hair. Estrogens promote the growth of scalp hair, while they inhibit the growth of hair elsewhere on the body; DHT, the strong form of testosterone, promotes the growth of body hair, facial hair, but it appears to inhibit the growth of scalp hair. The amount of DHT produced in the skin in turn depends on the amount of the enzyme 5-alpha-reductase available for the conversion of testosterone to DHT. Men with congenital deficiency of 5-alpha-reductase have small prostates, do not develop prostate cancer (no case has ever been reported), have little body hair, and do not grow bald.

 

Women often notice increased hair loss when there is a sudden drop in estrogens: post-partum, after stopping the Pill, and at the onset of menopause. It is estimated that a woman may lose as much as 20% of her hair at menopause. Both post-partum and menopausal hair loss, however, are not classified as androgenic alopecia, but as "endocrine alopecia," which should really be called "estrogen-withdrawal alopecia."

 

Severely hyperandrogenic women, on the other hand, can suffer from male pattern baldness even at a young age. Still, a woman can be hyperandrogenic without necessarily showing signs of androgenic alopecia, but she may have acne and increased facial and body hair. Or a woman can have androgenic alopecia without acne and/or hirsutism. This seems to be a highly individual matter.

 

Typically, however, it is men who start losing hair fairly early in life, sometimes already in their twenties. Men produce a lot more DHT than women do, since obviously men produce a lot more testosterone than women do (DHEA can also serve as a raw material for DHT). But it's not the serum level of DHT that seems to matter, but the local conversion of androgens to DHT in the scalp.

 

Let me stress this point: it is the LOCAL excess DHT production that seems to be the root of the problem. THE SCALP FOLLICLES OF GENETICALLY SUSCEPTIBLE INDIVIDUALS HAVE MORE OF THE ENZYME 5-ALPHA-REDUCTASE, RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CONVERSION OF TESTOSTERONE TO DHT. Most women are protected by having (1) less testosterone, (2) less 5-alpha-reductase needed to convert T to DHT, and also (3) by having more aromatase, the enzyme that converts testosterone to estradiol.

 

It is interesting to note that male teenagers and young men, with their tremendously high testosterone output (T production begins to decline very gradually after the age of 25) tend to have a full head of hair but generally not that much chest hair and facial hair. On the other hand, it's not unusual to see lots of chest hair and a full flowing beard on a severely balding middle-aged man. Apparently the local production of DHT, perhaps as compensation for low serum androgens, is a significant factor here. We do not yet understand how serum DHT and peripheral DHT are related, but one hypothesis is that there is an inverse relationship. It's just a hypothesis. Estrogens are vasodilators: they promote the release of NO from the blood vessel lining. It's also possible that estrogens increase superoxide dismutase (SOD) activity (at least that's one of the effects of the birth-control pill). SOD quenches the superoxide radical, a very nasty little beastie that apparently inhibits NO release.

 

DHT acts in a more perfidious way. Here is one emerging view of it: DHT seems to induce class-II antigens within the follicle. The immune system then perceives the follicle as a "foreign body," and targets it for destruction. Progesterone inhibits 5-alpha-reductase, and it can compete with other androgens for androgen receptors (progesterone could be classified as a "non-masculinizing androgen"). Topical progesterone can thus arrest the progression of baldness, but it doesn't promote regrowth. I repeat: there is no evidence that progesterone promotes regrowth. Just decreasing DHT in the scalp can at best arrest the progression of baldness. Proscar (finasteride) also decreases DHT by inhibiting 5-alpha-reductase. Proscar produces close to 70% reduction in serum DHT, but only about 34% reduction in skin DHT. Still, virtually all men taking Proscar (5 mg finasteride) report that the progression of baldness is arrested. But is a big reduction of serum DHT beneficial, or can it in fact be harmful? (Hint: DHT can't be aromatized to estradiol, and estradiol has been implicated in prostate cancer. We discuss it later in this issue - see the comment by Dr. Zava.)

 

CORTISOL and cortisone, the so-called "stress hormones," are also androgens and are possibly implicated in baldness. We know for sure that they are involved in acne. Anecdotally, stress is known to cause hair loss. One study (Schmidt 1994) did find SIGNIFICANTLY ELEVATED CORTISOL IN ANDROGENIC ALOPECIANS, BOTH MALE AND FEMALE, as compared with controls. It also found alopecians to have significantly elevated androstenedione. In women there was also very frequent hypothyroidism and/or elevated prolactin (it's possible that prolactin stimulates the production of androgens). Balding men, on the other hand, had higher serum estradiol than controls.

 

Schmidt makes a very big point of the finding that women suffering from androgenic alopecia do not necessarily have higher serum androgens (other than cortisol, generally not classified as an androgen, though it should be). She thinks that THE MAIN HORMONAL DISTURBANCE LINKED TO FEMALE ALOPECIA IS HYPOTHYROIDISM. It's likely that hypothyroidism leads to abnormalities in both estrogen and androgen metabolism. I'm amazed that this study didn't look at insulin, since elevated insulin has been linked to alopecia in hyperandrogenic women. Anecdotally, lowering insulin with drugs and/or diet does seem to improve hair growth in both men and women. [Read my paragraphs on insulin resistance in the Nutrition page sidebar. - Tom]

 

As you can see, the situation gets more and more complicated the more hormones you look at. Finally you just want to throw up your hands and say, "OK, it looks like all the hormones are out of whack." To put it more formally, androgenic alopecia is a multi-hormonal disorder. You can't just say "too much DHT."

 

Malnutrition and stress can obviously cause hair loss, but it appears that the primary causes are genetic-hormonal-immunological and vascular (it's not really possible to separate the endocrine system from the immune system from the nervous system and so forth). In other words, to preserve our hair, we must keep DHT and cortisol at bay and strive to preserve clean arteries.

 

http://www.hairloss-reversible.com/biology_of_baldness.htm

Edited May 23, 2014 by Andrei

[bax44]

Andrei, Im assuming that was some sort of reply to my recommendation to not take saw palmetto? All that article talks about is hair loss, and even in that article it came to the conclusion that not just dht is responsible. I dont see how this is even relevant to this thread, as the op is looking for ways to increase libido..which by inhibiting DHT with use of things like saw palmetto will do the opposite of what he wants. Again, im not making this up..one can easily find numerous horror stories on the web of guys using anti androgens to very bad effects on their sexuality. these substances dont just reduce DHT in the scalp, they do so systemically which is very very unwanted. inhibit DHT and testosterone has nowhere else to go except..estrogen. this obviously isnt optimal lol. Other than that, idk what the point of that post was..the op wasnt asking about hair loss, unless i missed something.

Edited May 23, 2014 by bax44

[Andrei]

Sorry, I have to explain myself.

The idea is that depends on what your body type is and what kind of hormones you have.

If you have body hair then you have DHT.

If you don't have body hair then you have estrogen.

The idea of the thread was how to boost libido.

To boost libido you have to boost testosterone.

I did that when I was 25, I did squats, ate meat and eggs and everything by the book.

I was smelling like a bull, from testosterone.

I was doing martial arts, I was having a girlfriend and I was keeping her happy, everything was ok.

Then I begun to grow my body hair, I barely had any body hair at that age.

At 30 I was almost covered in body hair (except back ) but there are guys that grow body hair on the back too.

I know guys that don't have body hair but have baldness.

So depends on your hormones, depends what you eat and what you do.

At 35 or later at 40, you may have prostate problems like I did.

So if you do, saw palmetto is a good anti-androgen, actually is an alpha-inhibitor that inhibits 5-alpha-reductase so that you dont do DHT.

If you have body hair you already have too much, so it is better to convert back to estrogen.

If you have zinc it will convert back to T, but you need to consume it and to circulate otherwise it will be stuck in the prostate.

It is like being too Yang and no Yin. Or too Yin and no Yang.

In my opinion is better to be balanced.

But depends what you do, what you eat, where you live etc.

I did horse stance and zhan zhuang and they both have results, depends what you look for.

Horse stance boost the Yang energy.

Zhan Zhuang is more balancing, it will gradually increase Yang in the first stage then Yin follows and after a year of practice you may find that it balances your Yin-Yang. By Yin-Yang I mean the cortisol levels are balanced by Serotonine and the adrenaline is balanced by circulating it through the whole body.

 

The Taoists say "Jing replenished - no sex desire, Qi replenished - no hunger".

This is the dynamics of Yin-Yang, If you have too much Jing but no Qi then the libido decrease. But then you convert Jing (hormones) into Qi and libido increase. And then when you consume the Jing the libido decrease again because no more Jing left, so you need to replenish again the Jing. And so on the cycle repeats.

 

There are many ways you can manipulate the hormones and energy of your body, there are always limits and optimal levels, which differ from person to person. You just have to look for symptoms and other clues. It's complicated, I agree is not easy.

 

So in conclusion T is good but as everything else "too much of a good thing is a bad thing".

Edited May 23, 2014 by Andrei

[bax44]

ok, I agree with most of your post all I was warning was for the op not to touch saw palmetto as youd recommended earlier...and your still kind of recommending it,,Ill say it again, inhibiting DHT for a guy is rarely EVER a good thing, and the stuff is potent. prostate troubles as I said before are more likely caused by elevated estrogens..saying if someone has body hair they have dht and if not they have estrogen is way too black and white. EVERYONE has dht and estrogen. you dont just suddenly lose all your body hair if you lower your dht and raise your estrogen .(well unless you start taking feminine hormones, but thats a different story and not the type of manipulation we are discussing.) If anyones curious what anti androgens can do to a male just look up post finasteride syndrome or even look up saw palmettos side effects. this has nothing to do with being "too yang" or whatever its not something guys no matter how yin or yang they are should really be messing with if they like having a libido.just my very experienced opinion take it fwiw.

[Andrei]

Well, OK maybe this is the answer on the other two topics: "How do you control your sexual urges" and "Cause, effect and celibacy"

 

http://www.pfsfoundation.org/post-finasteride-syndrome-overview/

Edited May 23, 2014 by Andrei

[ChiDragon]

You seem confused.

 

lifting weight has affected sex life.

 

http://www.steadyhealth.com/Weight_lifting_and_Sex_t124875.html

Edited May 23, 2014 by ChiDragon

[DalTheJigsaw123]

Thank you all!!

[mike 134]

Woah, didn't expect so many replies. Quick update, I went out, bought some zinc, mg, fish oil, started eating dark chocolate. Sex drive is def way up. But I don't know if it was actually caused by these supplenments. I almost seem to get random surges of libido at times for a week or two before it goes AWOL for a month. So I don't know if its something I actually did or totally random. I need to keep experimenting.