the bums?

[Taomeow]

I wouldn't say I disagree with anything Taomeow has said. You can still have different universes, different types of sentient beings with different sensory perceptions, and it still be all "one".

 

I guess what I am saying is everything is the universe. Everything is included in the universe. Everything lives and has it's being in God, in THE ALL.

 

There isn't even a side to take or opinion because both sides and both opnions are also the one.

 

I guess I am talking about the "bigger picture" rather than the details. Not at all saying the detials arent important..but I think seeing the "bigger picture" is much more important.

 

 

Why do you think the bigger picture is more important? Size matters? Personally, I am partial to the bigger picture because it is much, much easier for me to perceive, but I am also very respectful of the details, because that's where real work is needed -- work of attention, of awareness, of presence. Otherwise one doesn't notice... and an error of a tenth of a degree, as navigators have learned through direct experience, takes you thousands of miles away from where you thought you were going. "Tao is subtle. The sage emulates that."

 

I don't doubt that everything is connected, but as the song goes, "we are one, but we're not the same" --

and "enforced oneness" is a virtual demon persistently stalking all taoist-buddhist-zen forums and biting off all the heads that stick out and all the tails that aren't tucked humbly between anyone's legs. Biting off everything that shows up above, below, or to the side of the anything-goesness, the everythingness, the oneness and sameness that is supposed to be the bee's knees. But even in a beehive, they're one but they're not the same --

sameness destroys them, try removing the one bee that starts out "the same" but winds up turning "different," "special," "unique" -- the queen!.. -- try to enforce sameness by removing her, and everybody dies!

[Cameron]

Yup..that's what I get from you. A deep appreciation for the details. Totally cool with me .And I certainly dont' have any argument there.

 

Ime thinking seeing the bigger picture would be a nice healthy thing for most people. But what do I know.

 

 

I don't doubt that everything is connected, but as the song goes, "we are one, but we're not the same" --

and "enforced oneness" is a virtual demon persistently stalking all taoist-buddhist-zen forums and biting off all the heads that stick out and all the tails that aren't tucked humbly between anyone's legs. Biting off everything that shows up above, below, or to the side of the anything-goesness, the everythingness, the oneness and sameness that is supposed to be the bee's knees. But even in a beehive, they're one but they're not the same --

sameness destroys them, try removing the one bee that starts out "the same" but winds up turning "different," "special," "unique" -- the queen!.. -- try to enforce sameness by removing her, and everybody dies!

 

 

Totally..yeah I get what your saying. Just want to see both perspectives. The dual and the non dual and the aspect that embraces both..the balance.

 

namaste.

[sedigheh zokaei]

I didn't mean to disagree with you, I meant to disagree with the tao+te=brahman+atman formula of another entry.

 

 

i dont mean that (tao+te=brahman+atman). i say that if we see freely from credit or attribute to the "word"s, by a pure look to the propositions, we see a "truth" that is one, in depth and background of all those. i say that we profound to the cases; therfore we wont have componented and seperated see . althow we havent true and completed sensual and perceptional dominance from the world ,and we see in any second, what is appear and no what is in fact ,but we can move to percept the power of cylestial eye in our innert , to accost the problems in any time , wuthouth its depend to the time and space.

[dwai]

I definetly dont' thing there is an "ego problem" involed. It's all good. Use whatever terms you like .Just saying we all breathe the same air, you know? Fundamentally there is one Spirit moving through all creation whatver you want to call it.

 

I mean..there is one Earth we both stand on, one Sun shining on us(and many shining elsewhere) one beautiful moon.

 

That's all Ime saying. Fundametally it's all one. The sun is the sun and the moon is the moon they each have there unique beauty and energy.

 

But they occupy the same sky

 

But there is an Ego problem involved. Everyone has to deal with it -- no matter what your level of practice.

It (ego) raises it's ugly head. Everytime we meditate and think about our "accomplishment", we are feeding the ego. It is frustrating, but the first step I think is in detecting it.

 

You are right about the Fundamental One-ness of existence. But the Tao and the Brahman are not the sun or the moon, they are the same sky. Just like you call "Sky" - "Sky" in English, you call it "Aakaash" in Samskrit. But the end result is that you are referring to the same thing, only your syntax has changed.

 

But when it comes to Tao and Brahman, what is to describe and what can be understood? Doesn't the Tao-te-Ching say if the Tao can be described it is not the real Tao? Similarly, the Vedantic literature does everything but try and describe Brahman. Here is a little article on Brahman that is Shiva or Sat-chit-ananda (or Existence, Consciousness, Bliss) --

 

http://medhajournal.com/columns/philosophy...liberation.html

 

 

We have to get to that Undifferentiated One slowly by integrating the pieces that is us, weaving together the individual threads of our consciousness and energy. My Tai Chi Master refers to how "the Te has to be found before connecting back to Tao".

[sedigheh zokaei]

in the reply to dwai:

 

ecxatly my main mean is to direct to that great concept of "tao te ching " that you said. and "de" in that mean that in the depth, nor the define for TAO , RELATE to a spectrum from mere sensuality in presence in all of our exist, to deep perceptions in ghost or soul ; thet they are not seperated from together.

 

and it depends to any one s existence external and innert level.

[Cameron]

But there is an Ego problem involved. Everyone has to deal with it -- no matter what your level of practice.

It (ego) raises it's ugly head. Everytime we meditate and think about our "accomplishment", we are feeding the ego. It is frustrating, but the first step I think is in detecting it.

 

You are right about the Fundamental One-ness of existence. But the Tao and the Brahman are not the sun or the moon, they are the same sky. Just like you call "Sky" - "Sky" in English, you call it "Aakaash" in Samskrit. But the end result is that you are referring to the same thing, only your syntax has changed.

 

But when it comes to Tao and Brahman, what is to describe and what can be understood? Doesn't the Tao-te-Ching say if the Tao can be described it is not the real Tao? Similarly, the Vedantic literature does everything but try and describe Brahman. Here is a little article on Brahman that is Shiva or Sat-chit-ananda (or Existence, Consciousness, Bliss) --

 

http://medhajournal.com/columns/philosophy...liberation.html

We have to get to that Undifferentiated One slowly by integrating the pieces that is us, weaving together the individual threads of our consciousness and energy. My Tai Chi Master refers to how "the Te has to be found before connecting back to Tao".

 

 

Yes..this gets back to where I said I just prefer to use the word truth. Truth is truth. There can't be two truths can there? The idea is ridiculous.

 

Where I think Taomeow and I had a little misunderstanding is she thought I was projecting some conceptual truth voer all of existance where in reality I am more interested in what Taoists talk about. "The Tao which can be spoken is not the Tao."

 

Let's just say it just IS.

 

WHATEVER IT IS.

 

 

ps .actually now that I think about it she was responding to another poster .I mean..the idea she was brining up that yes there may be fundamental unity but also difference .This is totally in line with both Zen, Adveitic and Taoist teachings I think. It's not all a bland soup what Advaitists call the SELF loves this variety and of course creation is full of variety.

 

There are many different notes on the piano but it's still the piano..or something.

Edited August 11, 2007 by Cameron

[Taomeow]

But there is an Ego problem involved. Everyone has to deal with it -- no matter what your level of practice.

It (ego) raises it's ugly head.

 

My ego's head is pretty. Kinda like a redhead European version of Gong Li.

[Taomeow]

del

Edited August 11, 2007 by Taomeow

[beancurdturtle]

Yes..this gets back to where I said I just prefer to use the word truth. Truth is truth. There can't be two truths can there? The idea is ridiculous.

Oh golly, there's a gazillion truths.

 

Because every brain that has thought truth existed, has only been conceptualizing their own personal abstraction.

 

Once truth becomes "truth" it's been abstracted - and is no longer what it really is.

 

Maybe there's only one of what it really is, but that's not the way we interpret it.

[Cameron]

My enlightenment to do list:

 

1. Stop doing

 

-Nirmala

[sedigheh zokaei]

"stop doing " , is the root , that terminate to these contradictions that "appear" , but in truth are not.

when one is in that real way that "tao te ching" has said , there can not be interpretations by "self" think of any one ; becouse he or she has shipwreck in that real way that are not abstracted. and in this way one has understanded meaning of "dont be ego, not exist self in act" in one s innert, so he or she percept truth of meaning of " have not desire ".

[fatherpaul]

sedigheh zokaei,

 

my apologies for my oblique answer in my first reply, no insult was intended in pointing out a spelling error,

it seems that english is a second language to you.

 

i owe you a straight answer, and so:

 

the bums, it seems to me, are a group of diverse humans

who look to apply the ancient ways of taoist principle and practice,

both physically and pshycologically to their everyday lives.

they dicuss this here as well as explore other paths along the way,

 

but every now and then, something happens in a thread that leads to a true insight.

 

also much information is exchanged and freindships begun.

 

 

either that or their a bunch of drunks,

i still haven't made up my mind

 

HAHAHAHAHA

 

either way, good people all of them.

 

peace,

paul

[sedigheh zokaei]

to fatherpaul :

 

ok; i see. and real is that we - in any language and intellectual space and own method or style that we are, -

we move in the path that can speak about diverse opinions and own perceptions , to sense truth concepts of matters , more and more ... in some clear and pure spaces ,some here ...

 

thanks.