the bums?

[sedigheh zokaei]

what is the real purpuse of "bums" in "the taobums" , in the depth meanings of it?

 

the tao force is already and in any second is current in the most power in the macrocosmos & microcosmos and in our exist. ... to the oneness of Atman & Brahman ...

[Taomeow]

what is the real purpuse of "bums" in "the taobums" , in the depth meanings of it?

 

the tao force is already and in any second is current in the most power in the macrocosmos & microcosmos and in our exist. ... to the oneness of Atman & Brahman ...

There's bums in traditional taoism, they are known as The Wandering Taoists -- there's a book describing what they are up to, by Deng Ming-Dao, titled "The Wandering Taoist," or in modern terms, "The Tao Bum."

 

As for atman and brahman, these are hindu, not taoist, i.e. Indo-European goodies that a tao bum only comes across if he or she happens to wander far, far away from his or her Southeast Asian spiritual home.

[fatherpaul]

what is the real purpuse of "bums" in "the taobums" , in the depth meanings of it?

 

the tao force is already and in any second is current in the most power in the macrocosmos & microcosmos and in our exist. ... to the oneness of Atman & Brahman ...

 

 

you mispelled purpose

 

this is the depth of the meaning

 

 

atman and brahman are sleeping over at the next web site

 

this is the power

 

 

peace and happy pancakes,

paul

[beancurdturtle]

atman and brahman are sleeping over at the next web site

No

 

no

 

no!

 

I keep telling you!

 

Batman and Robin are comic book superheros.

[sedigheh zokaei]

ok .i percept it, noe,well ; your viewpoint is right completly. but my mean from pose of atman & brahman, is fact of its conceptions that both in taoeism and hindu, direct to that great goal. genuine in both of them and essence of the worl is moving to sense that oneness.

 

i dont understand your mean of this mispell?

what repugnance is there in my opinion and question?

 

i dont understand your mean of this mispell?

what repugnance is there in my opinion and question?

[beancurdturtle]

i dont understand your mean of this mispell?

what repugnance is there in my opinion and question?

If this question is for me. I was just playing a word game with fatherpaul. It had little to do with your question - and I apologize for the confusion caused.

Edited August 10, 2007 by beancurdturtle

[sedigheh zokaei]

thanks; and what is your opinion?

[beancurdturtle]

thanks; and what is your opinion?

I'm not quite in agreement. While Brahman is transcendent and the source of the creator Gods and so forth, the Tao is descendant and everything is inescapably both part of and manifest from it.

 

The Tao has no Gods as brokers or mediators between itself and what is manifest from it. It simply is, and everything is it.

[sedigheh zokaei]

i am in agreement exatly, with you later sentence. and aoigin of purpose is in the ventricle of it.

[Wayfarer64]

Dear S.Z.

Since you have written many questions to me privately about these issues - and I have been reluctant to answer them -because you seem to be intent on truth and I can only offer opinion -I think this is the better place for me to address you. I am not a spokesperson for Taoism nor can I claim to be a true scholar as I do not read chinese, I have only written a book of poetry that is my artistic interpretation of the YiJing...

For anyone interested here is the URL-

 

http://www.lulu.com/pdgart

 

But I shall try to answer you as I am able-

My quest has always been introspective in nature - In that I delve into my own consciousness to seek answers as a result of applied logic, reason and experience- some of these experiences have been very esoteric in nature- (cosmic, super-natural or spiritual are other ways of stating this idea)...but the basis has been in deep meditation and strict martial practices. The deepest inner "me" I see as that which may be eternal, but my human nature also has an outer me- (the personality - or that which dies)...the life that I am living now in time and space...

My innermost being tries to get my selfish life-form to be spiritual in my conduct and direction -the body driven aspects are -just trying to make the most for myself in this existance...

 

that is the simplest expression of the dualism I live with most of the time...That my training has taken most of the wind out of my personal sails -in a manner of speaking I see as a good thing. I am less materialistic and am living as a spiritual being as much as I am able to do so...

 

But there is much effort given to these practices and my current state of being is not very comfortible -so a BALANCE must be found in life and that is the best reason I have for seeking Taoist answers to my questions...

I seek balance...

[dwai]

There's bums in traditional taoism, they are known as The Wandering Taoists -- there's a book describing what they are up to, by Deng Ming-Dao, titled "The Wandering Taoist," or in modern terms, "The Tao Bum."

 

As for atman and brahman, these are hindu, not taoist, i.e. Indo-European goodies that a tao bum only comes across if he or she happens to wander far, far away from his or her Southeast Asian spiritual home.

 

Hmm...that seems like an interesting "spin" to the term Wandering...

 

As far as Atman and Brahman are concerned -- they are the same as Te and Tao (Microcosm and Macrocosm). There is little difference (mho) -- call it whatever you want to call it (Tao, Brahman, Great Eagle, Nagual, the list is endless). What it isn't is a personalized/personified God (which is also a distilliation, an abstraction of the Tao btw).

 

East or South-East, the wisdom remains...we must not indulge in the Ego (my way is better than your way), but follow which-ever path the Tao leads us to...

[sedigheh zokaei]

hello Warfarer64 :

 

thank you very much for your explanations.

that way that you have implied it about adjacent relation by nature and its forces, is completly and ecxatly in my seeking in myself and my soul.

and i have sensed in myself that our truth living , is in depth of motion to the selfishless from this bondage in the appearance and touchable time - space , to that real balance that you implied. balance that create from duble right(and in fact one powerful ) current bitween Yin & Yang that is in eternal slogan and from and in the source of god by that universal harmony that" will experienced by cooperating with Tao".

and acheives in touchable world and mind by concentration and meditation from our deepest layars.

[sedigheh zokaei]

hello dwai:

you say completely right .what is in truth , is certainl apply and current of De (Te) in human life that put human in real way of life, that is free from depend to oneself ; and it is that cosmic way (named wei wu wei in taoeism) , the way that god(tao) current and exist in my exist and ever not exist i. the way that i am free and independant . i am free and i will sense purity in total of my life bitween microcosmos and macrocosmos...

[dwai]

I'm not quite in agreement. While Brahman is transcendent and the source of the creator Gods and so forth, the Tao is descendant and everything is inescapably both part of and manifest from it.

 

The Tao has no Gods as brokers or mediators between itself and what is manifest from it. It simply is, and everything is it.

 

I believe you speak of a different Brahman. The Brahman per Vedantic philosophy the undifferentiated One and everything is but a manifestation of it. The Brahman does not "create" anything -- since there is nothing that is not Brahman. The Brahman Simply is (too).

 

The Indic way is to quantify this infinity that is Brahman in the form of more personified entities (deities). Like the old saying goes -- Do not judge a book by it's cover and don't accept anything you see at face value. There is almost always something deeper and more profound lying beneath the surface.

[beancurdturtle]

I believe you speak of a different Brahman. ...

 

The Indic way is to quantify this infinity that is Brahman in the form of more personified entities (deities).

I was speaking of the "quantified" Brahman. Thanks for your explanation, it is more complete than those I had received previously. I appreciate the de-mystification.

[dwai]

I was speaking of the "quantified" Brahman. Thanks for your explanation, it is more complete than those I had received previously. I appreciate the de-mystification.

 

I am glad I was able to shed some light on this topic. The topic of Brahman is greatly debated in the Classical Indic Philosophical schools. There were six traditional schools of philosophy, Vedanta (or Uttara Mimamsa) being only one of those six. Within Vedanta itself there are 3 schools with different interpretations/levels of understanding of Brahman.

 

The Non-dual school (not Monist mind you, specifically Non-Dual) or Advaita Vedanta treats Brahman as One and there is none other. Everything that exists is Brahman as is all that doesn't exist.

 

The Dualist (dvaita Vedanta) school stops at the level of Taiji (the concept) with the dualism.

 

The Specific Non-Dual (Vishishta Advaita) school says that dualism is the commonly observed phenomenon, but at the end it is all one. That seems to be the observation by Taoists as well (or so it seems to me) -- with the One Chi, Yin and Yang and the Tao.

 

The Tao, the way it was treated (or so I think) in Ancient China has parallels with the concept of Rta (or The Way or The Order) of Ancient India (as in the Purva Mimamsa school of Philosophy). Rta became Dharma with the advent of Vedanta.

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedanta

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dharma#Proto-...ta_in_the_Vedas

 

My purpose of posting these comments is because I saw SZ's original post (about Tao and Atman + Brahman) and it struck a chord. My intention isn't to belittle anyone else's opinion or to show off. The topics of Veda and Taoism and their similarities is a matter of great excitement for me.

 

Regards,

 

Dwai

[Cameron]

I just prefer to use the word truth. Truth is truth. Reality is what it is. Yeah?

[Taomeow]

It's not all the same to me. Mozart ain't no Britney Spears to me. And tao ain't no brahman. And ego ain't no atman deficiency. Ego is a Freudian psychoanalytical term for which Fu Xi has no use whatsoever, and neither do I.

 

If everything looks the same, it may simply mean one hasn't been paying attention. Like with classical Chinese music -- most people who were not exposed to it early enough can't hear nine-tenth of it because nine-tenth of it is too subtle. Then again, if one is completely deaf, Chinese music, Mozart, Britney Spears and the didjeridoo all sound the same. It might be correct from some divine perspective or other, but I always have a good laugh when a human being asserts there's no difference between anything and anything else. That same human being who will have fried eggs rather than the frying pan for breakfast. That same human being who will chase it with green tea rather than green acrylic paint. That same human being who told me so many times that unless I drink green paint, walk on the tips of my ears instead of my feet, breathe water with my "potentially" perfectly functional gills instead of air with my lowly here-now lungs (there's no difference, right?..) and, most importantly, stop differentiating between Indo-European and Southeast Asian spiritual traditions, then it means I've an ego problem.

 

Yes, Herr Freud. Obviously. Meowwwwww....

[Cameron]

I definetly dont' thing there is an "ego problem" involed. It's all good. Use whatever terms you like .Just saying we all breathe the same air, you know? Fundamentally there is one Spirit moving through all creation whatver you want to call it.

 

I mean..there is one Earth we both stand on, one Sun shining on us(and many shining elsewhere) one beautiful moon.

 

That's all Ime saying. Fundametally it's all one. The sun is the sun and the moon is the moon they each have there unique beauty and energy.

 

But they occupy the same sky

[Taomeow]

I definetly dont' thing there is an "ego problem" involed. It's all good. Use whatever terms you like .Just saying we all breathe the same air, you know? Fundamentally there is one Spirit moving through all creation whatver you want to call it.

 

I mean..there is one Earth we both stand on, one Sun shining on us(and many shining elsewhere) one beautiful moon.

 

That's all Ime saying. Fundametally it's all one. The sun is the sun and the moon is the moon they each have there unique beauty and energy.

 

But they occupy the same sky

 

I didn't mean to disagree with you, I meant to disagree with the tao+te=brahman+atman formula of another entry.

 

I once looked through the technologically simulated Eye Of A Bee contraption at the museum of science and technology. And you know what... Sun was not sun and moon was not moon, and there was definitely more than one sky. There were over seventy skies, some occupied by one sun, some by none, some by seventy. There were purple moons, there were black flowers with neon green markings, there were all kinds of things in plain view that no human ever sees at all, let alone as "truth" or "reality" --

 

but does it mean the bee is wrong seeing a very, very different "truth" and a completely "alternative" reality?

 

Likewise, is a cat wrong when she looks at atman and sees, with utmost clarity, bright neon green markings on it that spell out, in Substandard English, "Attention cat, whatcha lookin' at ain't no tao, and you better believe your eyes!"

Edited August 11, 2007 by Taomeow

[Cameron]

Cool stuff. Maybe the bee and the cat have different perceptions than we do but let's not deny cause and effect. That we all share this planet together and as I beleive you have said before humans have basically wiped out certain species of animals.

 

You can use negativity to illestrate the truth of oneness as easy or maybe even easier than positive metaphors. We all influence one another. We are part of the same system even we don't see or percieve it in it's totality.

[beancurdturtle]

Thanks dwai, Cameron, and Taomeow. Great exchange and opportunity for a nexus of understanding.

 

Personally I think I float in a boat closer to Taomeow - but I enjoy the discussion.

[Cameron]

I wouldn't say I disagree with anything Taomeow has said. You can still have different universes, different types of sentient beings with different sensory perceptions, and it still be all "one".

 

I guess what I am saying is everything is the universe. Everything is included in the universe. Everything lives and has it's being in God, in THE ALL.

 

There isn't even a side to take or opinion because both sides and both opnions are also the one.

 

I guess I am talking about the "bigger picture" rather than the details. Not at all saying the detials arent important..but I think seeing the "bigger picture" is much more important.

[beancurdturtle]

Taking sides in a boat is dangerous. I'm liable to get dumped

 

My boat may be drifting your way after your last comments.

 

But I'd better be careful - Taomeow might be the kind to splash.

 

Gosh, now I remember my sea kayaking days. Seventeen feet of chaise lounge, 5 miles off the Pacific shore - now THAT's practice.

[Cameron]

ahhhh..boats with sides and people with opinions..all for fun..hell I don't even know what Ime talking about anyway,

 

namaste.