communicating through emptiness

[manitou]

Have you ever heard of the jhanas, Manitou? (You probably have after 30 years of meditating, but I'm throwing this out there in case you haven't.) This sounds like a formless realm experience - perhaps the "sphere of infinite space" or "the sphere of nothingness". Was it preceded by any other experiences, like a feeling of the body dissolving into space, then an expansion of the mind, or did it seem to come from nowhere?

 

 

My personality and body felt like they were dissolving - particularly the personality. The mind expansion happens on its own because of no inner dialogue during meditation. I've not heard of the jhana, but I will look them up. Formless realm is a very good description of what it was.

[UTI]

@OP: Could you describe what you're referring to as emptiness? I'm reading a lot of dzogchen stuff lately, so it might be helpful to get another perspective. What you're describing sounds like it could be related to jhana in some way. I've noticed after a sharp turn into an altered state, I feel like a completely different person from who I was seconds before. You seem like you're referring to having two minds at once, though. What is communicating with what in emptiness?

 

Gladly

 

Emptiness is emptiness. There is no beginning or end to me, there is no individuality, no colour or perception, no now or later, there are no feelings for my family and friends however at the same time no rejection of them, there is no longing or desire, there is no achievement and no will, I don't strive to stay and I don't fear leaving, I have no direction or purpose while there. I am not confined and not endless, I do not know if I am there an hour or a minute. It is nowhere and everywhere. It is a state beyond definition, yet a defining characteristic for everything when you're there. Everything is open, yet nothing can enter or leave. Everything is sealed, still there is nothing being contained. These are all ideas of what happens when I enter and when I leave, something measured off the difference in the volume of my mind: what happens within emptiness is simply emptiness, since nothing happens but the cessation of everything that doesn't follow emptiness.

 

The experience with communication between two minds: I started becoming aware of the passing between normal and empty, and started using that awareness as a focus to aim at to move into emptiness. In stead of going through various processes, like forgetting or dissolving, I simply aim at that experience or awareness and move towards it singlemindedly, and invariably end up in emptiness. As an extension of this, I found myself very close to that vantagepoint between emptiness and non-emptiness, and started having a stronger recollection of what happens when emptiness is followed: because it is a process (imo), just that it's beyond our 3-dimensional means of perception. Within this I stood on the threshold, so to say, passing a process of emptiness between mind and non-mind.

 

So, there is no communication in emptiness. Just a translation into mind of what mind sees in non-mind. A reflection in a window -you see what's beyond blended with a reflection of yourself, always limited by the frame.

 

Have you ever counted how many thoughts you can think at once? I once got up to 10. Nowadays I can manage about 4, mainly because I'm slightly abhorred at the prospect of multitasking. I think it's the same thing, our mind has many little holes that can work paralell to one another, as long as we grant them independence and let them handle it.

 

what is emptiness to you? How do you come there?

[Kajenx]

I'm not sure I've experienced emptiness, or that I have any idea what it means. ^^ However, on the Dharma Overground forum, they say that the only thing that could be called emptiness is a complete cessation of consiousness and perception. So they say you don't experience emptiness, you only experience the moment before and the moment after. This is supposed to feel like a skipped beat in reality and it can last from a few moments to a few hours.

 

I don't really subscibe to this view, though, because it doesn't seem to match what various scriptures say. The phenomena exists, as lots of people report it, but I don't know what use it would have. For exmple, the buddha said he lived in emptiness. This makes it seem like an experience that is empty of desire, not empty of everything that exists. You seem to be describing an experience as well. I once had an experience that is something like what you describe. I was laying in bed, ready to fall asleep and my mind was wandering. Suddenly I experienced a complete stillness. It didn't seem to have any kind of sensory activity or thoughts, just perfect oblivion. It lasted for an indeterminant period of time, then I kind of popped back. It actually took a few moments to realize anything had happened.

[manitou]

I'm not sure I've experienced emptiness, or that I have any idea what it means. ^^ However, on the Dharma Overground forum, they say that the only thing that could be called emptiness is a complete cessation of consiousness and perception. So they say you don't experience emptiness, you only experience the moment before and the moment after. This is supposed to feel like a skipped beat in reality and it can last from a few moments to a few hours.

 

I don't really subscibe to this view, though, because it doesn't seem to match what various scriptures say. The phenomena exists, as lots of people report it, but I don't know what use it would have. For exmple, the buddha said he lived in emptiness. This makes it seem like an experience that is empty of desire, not empty of everything that exists. You seem to be describing an experience as well. I once had an experience that is something like what you describe. I was laying in bed, ready to fall asleep and my mind was wandering. Suddenly I experienced a complete stillness. It didn't seem to have any kind of sensory activity or thoughts, just perfect oblivion. It lasted for an indeterminant period of time, then I kind of popped back. It actually took a few moments to realize anything had happened.

 

 

I'm guessing that non-attachment may be what the Buddha was talking about? Maybe non-attachment and emptiness mean very much the same thing in our context here.